BONUS: A Deep Dive into the Swingin' D: Techniques and Tips with Mike Schultz

Mike Schultz from Schultz Outfitters joins The Butcher Shop fly fishing podcast to share the complete evolution of his signature Swingin' D streamer pattern, a swim fly designed specifically for Michigan smallmouth bass fishing with intermediate lines. Mike walks through the fly's 15-year development from the original pre-shank beads-and-wire version to today's articulated 2.0 variations, explaining how the Dahlberg-inspired foam diver head creates the pattern's distinctive side-to-side action when fished at a 45-degree angle. The conversation covers detailed tying instructions for multiple variations including the finesse single-hook version, materials selection from hen saddles to translucy brush and flexible resin keels, presentation techniques with 7-8 weight rods and intermediate lines, and how to tune head shapes for different water temperatures and conditions. Mike also provides updates on Schultz Outfitters' new e-commerce platform and details about the upcoming fourth annual Bobbin the Hood event featuring fly tying, demonstrations from top Midwest and national tiers, and the popular One Bugger One Brat One Beer contest.

EPISODE SUMMARY

Guest: Mike Schultz - Owner/Guide at Schultz Outfitters (Michigan)

In this episode: Michigan guide and fly designer Mike Schultz shares comprehensive insights into the Swingin' D streamer pattern development and techniques for smallmouth bass fishing on Michigan rivers. Topics include the fly's 15-year evolution from beads-and-wire construction to modern articulated designs, detailed tying methods for multiple variations, materials selection and substitutions, keeling and weighting strategies for depth control, and presentation techniques with intermediate lines from drift boats.

Key fishing techniques covered:

• Swim fly presentations with intermediate sinking lines for smallmouth bass
• 45-degree angle casting and retrieve patterns for optimal streamer action
• Keeling articulated flies with lead wire and flexible resin for depth control
• Animating streamers with variable strip cadences and pauses
• Reading water and structure from drift boats for smallmouth
• Tuning foam diver heads for different swim actions in varying water temperatures

Location focus: Michigan freestone rivers, small to medium water systems suitable for drift boat fishing

Target species: Smallmouth bass (primary), northern pike (bycatch)

Equipment discussed:

• Swingin' D streamer pattern (original and 2.0 versions)
• G. Loomis IMX Pro V2 Streamer rods (7-8 weight)
• G. Loomis Swim Fly NRX Plus rods
• Airflo Four Season Sniper intermediate lines
• SA Titan Full intermediate lines
• Rainy's Diver Heads, Cascade Crest heads
• Ahrex XO774 Universal Curve hooks, Gamakatsu worm hooks
• Chocklett Factory articulated shanks, Senyo micro shanks
• Chocklett Factory rattle boxes, Zapu plastic rattles
• Translucy brush, Predator Wrap, hen saddles, mallard flank
• Flexible resin keels, tungsten scud/shrimp bodies for weighting

Key questions answered:

• How to tie the Swingin' D from original version to modern 2.0 variations
• What rod and line setups work best for swim fly fishing for smallmouth
• How to adjust fly depth with keeling and weight placement
• When to fish swim flies versus leeches during early season
• How foam diver head shape affects streamer action and presentation

Best for: Intermediate to advanced anglers interested in smallmouth bass streamer fishing, articulated fly construction, swim fly techniques with intermediate lines, and Michigan river fishing from drift boats

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Marvin Cash00:00:04

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Butcher Shop where the Meat Meets the Water. On this episode, I'm joined by Mike Schultz.Mike and I take a deep dive into the Swingin' D from the original pre-shank version to all of today's variations. Mike also catches us up on Schultz Outfitter's new e commerce site and all of the upcoming events at the shop.I think you're really going to enjoy this one. But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items to make sure you don't miss a single episode of The Butcher Shop.Be sure to subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice. We're only distributing episodes on The Articulate Fly for a limited time.And if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out. And finally, a shout out to our sponsor. TroutRoutes.I've known the team at TroutRoutes almost before there was a team at trout routes. We all know streams are getting crowded and chances are you're not the only one at your local access point.Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using TroutRoutes Pro.With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, TroutRoutes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities that others will overlook. Up your game and download the app today. Use code ArtFly20.ArtFly20 all one word for 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com now on to our interview. Well, Mike, welcome to The Butcher Shop.

Mike Schultz00:01:32

Thanks brother. Looking forward to it.

Marvin Cash00:01:34

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, before we take a deep dive into the Swingin' D this evening, you know, tell me how your your smallmouth season was last year.

Mike Schultz00:01:41

Yeah, smallmouth season was good. I still guide quite a bit during what I consider the peak of peak, which is, you know, those early months of the year.So late March, all April, all of May, train trickle into June a little bit.But in Mount There when the water is the highest and you know, just watch Michigan come alive during that 10 to 11 week period and you know, it's always good, you know, if you're, if you're on the water five, six, seven days a week, it's, it's going to be a roller coaster. And you know, just like every season at last year had its own unique roller coaster. So it was good. It was good.I had a great time, had a lot of memorable moments in the boat A lot of big fish hit the net and as always, as you're fishing and guiding and observing, you learn a lot. So year was a success.

Marvin Cash00:02:34

Yeah, that's great.And I think probably the biggest thing I kind of saw kind of on social media was I guess maybe like right around Thanksgiving or right before you guys got your E. Commerce platform off the ground, right?

Mike Schultz00:02:45

Correct. Yes, yes. Things rapidly changed around here, that's for sure.

Marvin Cash00:02:51

Was that a gruesome experience or did it go pretty smoothly?

Mike Schultz00:02:54

Honestly, it was, it went, it went smooth, my man. I, I would say much smoother than I had anticipated in my head.So the guys that are kind of taking the reins on that are, they're good, they're good at what they do and they get stuff done and they're self starters and yeah, minimal micromanagement along the way and they've been crushing it. You know, tip of the hat to Adek and Simon. But yeah, man, it's good.It's going as expected on the, you know, sales end of thing, I guess you would say.

Marvin Cash00:03:31

Yeah. And I know you guys are always kind of doing cool things.So, you know, anything you can kind of tease for, kind of how you're going to be able to kind of, you know, help all the customers a little bit more than you were, you know, for on the physical side and calling on the phone and getting stuff ordered.

Mike Schultz00:03:45

Yeah, it's just, you know, makes things a little, a little smoother, you know, I mean, everybody's busy. I think that the customer, you know, we have a lot of customers that, you know, they know we have the E. Comm.It's been up for a couple months now, but they still want to call and still want to chat. So yeah, that, that part of Schultz Outfitters is by no means gone.You could still call and talk to your favorite team member here, whether it be Jesse or Corey or Matt or myself or whoever. So, you know, the old Schultz Outfitters will never go away.We're going to start, you know, improving and make it things smoother for, for all the people involved with the, you know, a transaction and whatnot.

Marvin Cash00:04:23

Very, very cool. And so as we jump to the, to the streamer side of things, you know, where did the name for the Swingin' D come from?

Mike Schultz00:04:31

So the Swingin' D. So, you know, developing this fly, you know, I eventually found the proper head to run with it.

Marvin Cash00:04:41

Right.

Mike Schultz00:04:42

Wasn't that happened to be, you know, a head that's made by a few different companies, but the company that makes the best one, the most consistent is Rainey's it's just called the diver head.But after doing, you know, the research and seeing, you know, what it looks like, the shape and all that stuff, like a lot of things in fishing, both fly and conventional, you know, it eventually leads back to Larry Dahlberg. So the style head that's on the front of the swing and D, it was designed by Larry.He has a bunch of different molds for it, makes it in a bunch of different shapes, pours it different densities and whatnot. So the fly swings in the current, kicks and moves and dances and it swings. So the swinging Dahlberg is.Where the D in Swingin' D comes from is Dahlberg.

Marvin Cash00:05:32

Got it.And so, you know, as you were kind of thinking about designing the pattern, you know, what was the hole in your fly box or the fishing problem you were trying to solve?

Mike Schultz00:05:41

Yeah. So, you know, going back to, let's say the early to mid 2000s, started fishing intermediate lines.A lot more companies came out with shorter bellied, more aggressive, tapered, you know, intermediates versus your old school still water intermediate tapers and maybe some saltwater intermediates that were out at that time called slime lines is what they referred to them around here. But the shorter ones came out. You know, at that time, there was really no swim flies, so to speak. You know, there was.We threw leeches and we threw crayfish, and we threw poppers and we threw frogs. And, you know, we would vary the weights of those peanuts and vary the weights of the craze and the leeches and whatnot.And, you know, you had kind of a, you know, jig type presentation. Something you could swing at different depths depending on water speed level at the time.But we really didn't have flies outside of say, you know, a deceiver, you know, that kind of would hang. So having said that, I met Mark Sedotti, Sedotti Slammer, a bunch of different flies.And Sadati had given me a fly that he called the kickin chicken that used a little head called a Petitjean Magic head, which used to be readily available in hairline catalog and whatnot. Nowadays you gotta buy em directly from Switzerland. But anyways, that kind of was the inspiration.That fly was the first fly that I ever had in my hands. They kind of swam side to side and it would dart, you know, think of it as a deceiver with a keel, lead keel. And then that.That magic head R13 magic head on it, reversed, so it would dart back and forth side to side. So that was kind of what I used for that Mid level stuff. And then I started experimenting, trying to make it larger.You know, at that time I would say guys like Mike Schmidt, Eli Brandt were tying like double deceivers. You know, that was kind of a big fly of that, that era and kind of beyond that is where I started to mess around and tinker with the longer tails.And then I was taking foam and I was cutting it on an angle, making a wedge out of it. And anyways, eventually I settled on that. The diver head by, by Rainey's, which is what Dahlberg was doing a long time ago. Little different.I got some of his original flies. But you know, having a fly that would hang and when you stripped it, you, you know, cracked it and you could mix up your retrieve and pause.And you know, at the beginning we weren't putting any, I wasn't putting any weight on it. So that fly would dip down and dive and then you'd kill it.And on that intermediate line it would have kind of like a slow rise up and it was very effective. And obviously it's went through several iterations and we still tie them in different ways.But you know, fishing the edge fishing, our rivers are small, like fishing out front, down and across. We preach that a lot. 45 degree angle.And with that head design and the proper angle and the proper rod angle to the water and cracking and stripping of that fly line, you got this wild, unpredictable, yet predictable action to the fly, which would look like a sluggo or would look like a fluke.And that's kind of where the hole was, was you're filling that hole of a fly that, that it didn't move up and down, it moved side to side and up and down. So that was kind of the, the idea behind it and where it eventually is today.I mean it, it's, it's a pretty unique fly that when tied properly and used the proper shape head and get some pretty wicked motion action out of that fly. And it draws.

Marvin Cash00:09:44

Yeah, I would imagine too with the foam head, it stays out of the timber pretty well, right?

Mike Schultz00:09:48

Yeah, it depends on how you're, you're messing with it. So it just depends on what you want to know what you're trying to achieve. So there's a, you know, we always talk about under the hood. Right?You know, like, let's show you guys what's under the hood. You know, the, the D, the Swingin' D is a perfect example of a fly that you can, you can make do all kinds of stuff.You can have that thing riding right up in the top three, four inches or you can, you know, 2.0 it out and lead, wrap it, do different things to allow that fly to, to fish at depth, you know, especially from a boat.

Marvin Cash00:10:21

Got it. And so, you know, anything else kind of on the bite trigger side, you're trying to kind of work into the fly.Like, I know, I think you, you know, you have rattles in them and some other stuff too, right?

Mike Schultz00:10:29

Yeah, the rattle is pretty much always in the fly. You know, that's something that I just, I put in there. It helps, you know, build up a little profile to it.The little bit of weight that the rattle provides kind of balances out with that foam head. If you don't put the rattle in it and you just put the foam head on it, it's gonna ride pretty high.And you know, at times you're not gonna get that immediate penetration when it hits the water.So, you know, I think that's something that doesn't really change much is, you know, your basic skeleton of the fly where, you know, maybe you're running a shank off the back and then to the hook and then two shanks in the middle and then do another hook and then the head and the rattle, those are all consistent. They're gonna be that way, you know, unless you're tying a single hook version. But, you know, changing up flash colors.No flash, you know, light colored flies, bright flies, dark flies, you know, it's, it's just like anything you go to, you go to the tackle store, you go on the G side here and look at the wall. There's, you know, mega bass, 110s and 50 different colors. You can get as wild as you want with it.But yeah, flash rattle, you know, the, the fly, the fly just draws, it moves, it shakes. You know, as long as you're fishing it on the proper angle, it's. You can't really fish it wrong.

Marvin Cash00:11:50

Got it. Which I'm sure helps from a guide perspective, right?

Mike Schultz00:11:53

100.

Marvin Cash00:11:54

Yeah.

Mike Schultz00:11:54

I mean, the, you know, the whole thing with the swim flies from the, from the get go is like we're, you're putting in the work at the vise, right? So you're, you're tying a really good fly, that swimsuit.And then you're just, you know, if you're guiding, you're, you're playing a video game with your clients, you're controlling the way that they strip and especially when you can see the fly, you know, and a lot of the flies that we choose the fish just because the arena that we're in. We're not in these big rivers where you're digging, have the dig flies down deep. You're in a. In a fairly shallow piece of water that you're.If you're fishing the right color flies and you're paying attention, you're going to see the eat more times than not. So a lot of white heads, a lot of chartreuse heads, a lot of yellow heads. You know, that foam takes a marker pretty nice.So you can, you know, tune it up however you want, but they eat it.

Marvin Cash00:12:45

Yeah. And so if we jump back in the time machine, I guess we'll call it Swingin' D 1.0. You want to kind of walk people.And it's kind of funny because when I was doing research for the interview, I think like the production tie of this, I guess it's probably what Fulling Mill or Orvis still has all the beads and the wire, but you want to kind of walk kind of from the tail of the fly to the front and kind of talk about the design and, you know, kind of how it's put together.But also too, I'm always interested to hear about, you know, materials that you started using that just didn't make that initial final cut and why they didn't work.

Mike Schultz00:13:14

Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, Marvin, the whole deal with the. As it, you know, there's things that have improved, you know, throughout on the fly, obviously, but like, you got to get.If we're going time machine, like this fly, you know, I was messing around, tweaking with this fly in, you know, 2009, 2010, you know, so it's been around a long time and, you know, going back that far, you know, that's before Blane came out with shanks. You know, when it came to, like, the original fish skull shanks, like, I don't think those came out until 10, 11, you know, so.And then the first generation of those, those shanks were small, or they're not small, but rather large, heavier gauge. I think there was like a, I don't know, a 20, a 27 and something. Something. So they were like pretty large. So that wasn't even an option back then.You know, we were borrowing a lot of different hooks at the time. You know, like a B10S was like, you know, cutting edge, you know, back then. So that was the rear hook was the B10s, size 4.You know, nowadays, like, I, I don't fish that hook. It's like you spend 30 minutes dying to fly, and one log jam one tree, and that hook Is, you know, turned into a sewing needle.And then we use the wire because there was no shanks. So, you know, your typical double deceiver, drunken disorderly, you know, beads and wire. Russ Maddin Beads and wire. Beads and mono.You could use whatever. But, you know, that was the transition to get you to the front hook. The front hook's always been the same.I haven't been able to find a hook that performs as well is the gamakatsu worm, you know, and I use that in a 2o. So that, that hook is, is the, is the hook for the front.But you know, going back to the materials that were on it originally, same old deal on the back, just the deceiver style tail coming off the hook. There was no shanks, so just straight deceiver style tail. Senyo's predator wrap had just come out.So we were taking that and putting that into a dub loop or twisting it up like you're twisting up a, a brush and wrapping that throughout the body. And then hen was like, you know, hen that you would get from wopsy, you know, it was like these tiny little probably Indian hen necks, you know.So that wasn't even being used really.So we would just take rabbit just like we did with the leeches and the crayfish, put that in a dub and loop, wrap that around, and then cap it with some mallard flank, you know, tip back to the zoo cougar. And then the beads the wire to the front more rabbit because we didn't really have good hen.And then rattle more predator wrap threw over the, over the bead and then collar of marabou and then a couple accent feathers. And then to keep that head in check and from not just spinning around the hook, we would wrap in some like hollow wrap or whatever.It was like a cascade crest product. Wrap that in for a throat and put some flash on there and glue that head on and done. You know, that was, that was the original fly. Problems with it.One, that rear hook would bend out to the. The wire would get all kinked up because you had a good two and a half inches in there.And that would throw the fly off and then, yeah, they would just get all chewed up, you know, so yeah, that was, that was the original. That's the way it was. And then what's the next thing you would do? You just take that rear hook off and make a shorter one.So a little 3 inch version, which was the single one, which we call the finesse.So that was just removing the rear hook, removing the wire Moving the beads going straight off the back with the smallest fish skull shank at the time. So that would just be that little fish skull shank with the deceiver tail off it.Connect that with some wire to that same two zero hook and you got your little mini one. And what I used to do with that was that I don't know if Cascade Crest is still around.It seems like Hairline may have acquired or is distributing them. But Cascade Crest made the head for Orvis at the time because the rainy sides were too expensive, I guess.So they made that Cascade Crest head, which was narrower, more of a pointy nose on it.The consistency of those heads are inferior to the Rainys, but if you bought enough of them, you could find some that were unique and would give you a different action than say, the wider, broader head from, from Rainey.So that was kind of what I originally tied that finesse with, was that single with the kind of narrow and how I described it to people back in the day, this is like your, your little Creek Rapala that used to throw for, for trout, you know, a little floater. And it just darted. Bang, bang, bang, bang. Just kind of walked and darted versus the big swoon in the, in the kick on the full size one.So those are kind of the two originals. And then obviously, you know, we've come a long way in the last 15 years with in fly tying. Right.You know, Blane bringing the, the game changer platform to the table and, you know, after that, just everything changed real quick.

Marvin Cash00:18:54

Yeah, it's neat too.And kind of doing research for the interview, kind of some things I saw, I think I watched your, your mallard flank swingin' D and which is, I don't know, it's. It's the most recent of the videos because, I mean, like you said, the pattern's been around for 15 years.But, you know, a couple things I noticed, you know, a lot more refinement with the knife tail. And I don't know if that's just because, you know, we've got resin and it's easier or if it was an action that you like to use sometimes.Like a way you generally like the pattern produced.And then kind of the other thing I saw too was keeling, which I know you can always do, but if there was a reason that maybe because something changed in the balance of the fly that you, you like to kill it more with the flexible resin.

Mike Schultz00:19:34

Yeah, like one thing too is like with the change in the season here, right?So like back in the day when this fly was first out, you know, we first developed it and started fishing was we couldn't even fish until the last Saturday in May, legally for bass.So, like, by the time you get to that time of the year, the water is, you know, went from in some situations to 2, 2500 cfs down to like, you know, 3, 4, 500 cfs. So like, your river is just totally different, so we didn't have to get down.You know, when it first came out, it was just like you're fishing that optimal water temps, you know, by the third week of May, the water is usually 60, 65 degrees in some situations. So, you know, the fly developed, you know, out of necessity, you know, to like, let's get deeper, let's fish bigger.You know, that original fly is only four and a half inches long, you know, or like the standard one that I throw now, you know, maybe it's only an inch and a half longer, but it's got a bigger profile, it's a bigger offering than those original skinny ones. Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:20:43

Plus, I guess too, right. I mean, you, you know, I guess relatively recently in the life of the pattern, you really kind of cracked that like, low 30 degree water stuff too.Right. So that was a whole different thing, right on the water level.

Mike Schultz00:20:54

Yeah, it is. I mean, we don't really, to be honest with you, like, I.45 is kind of like when I'll start.I mean, if I'm out with, you know, one of the guys goofing around, like, I'm probably not going to be leeching. I'm probably going to try to push it and tried to get a few eats on the swim fly.But really, like, until you get into that, when you show up in the morning and it's 45 and you know, on a good day, you might hit 50. Like, that's kind of the optimal window where I'll start reaching for. For that, you know, the. The swingin' D. Can you catch them in February on it?Sure. I've. We've done it. Could you catch more on a peanut or a leech or something in February?

Marvin Cash00:21:35

Yes.

Mike Schultz00:21:37

But yeah, you're always trying to push it with it. But I mean, that fly really starts to shine, you know, in that around here.Last week of middle of April, third week of April, you know, when it starts really being effective. Before that, I'm fishing other stuff for the most part.

Marvin Cash00:22:00

Gotcha. Any kind of, you know, 2.0 and on variations of the swingin' D you want to share with folks.

Mike Schultz00:22:07

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of. If I'm Going to sit down and crank them out. That's, that's going to be how I'm going to tie them. Now.I, I think that, you know, like we were just talking about it here in the office earlier today.The stuff that I guide with and fish with, you know, is slightly different than the stuff that you may, you know, Instagram post, you know, or you're like taking your time.You know, some of the best flies I, I, you know, have like quiver that I use are stuff that I tied the night before that, you know, are super glued together. Not really. You know, they don't take the time to build them perfect. They're usually a little bit narrower, a little sparser.But you know, things with that 2.0, like if I walk you guys through that, it's going to be, you know, a rear shank.Could be, you know, a Blane shank 15 or it could be, you know, a spawn shank somewhere in the 11, 12, 13 or Dean, whatever's on my desk, you know, and tie a little piece of a brush in like it could be anything. But let's just say we got translucy. Tie a little bit of that in, cut it flat on the sides.And then I'm going to take my Whiting, you know, rooster saddle. Find feathers that match up really nice.And if they, they're misbehaving, I might smash down the, the stem of that feather and run it, you know, right down the sides. Put an accent feather, small piece on there. So I'm only running a couple feathers off the back.I think people make a mistake when they like just take any ratty feather and just tie it off the back. Right? Sure it'll fish. I'll get some fish on it.But you'll get a, a better swim and a truer swim and probably less depending on what tippet you're fishing. Less line twists and whatnot. If you, if you take your time on that tail. So I usually take my time on that.I'll put a, put those feathers on and then I'll put a little thin collar, maybe two wraps of hen. Then I'll connect that with a Senyo 23 or 17. Whatever I got laying around, I'll cut that off. That's what I use for connections.You could use wire, you can use mono. But it all works. This is just something that I have done and I've never had fail. So I use, so I just use Senyo's little trout micro shanks.They make them in 23 and I believe 17 millimeter cut it tie that in more translucy brush, usually one inch.Then I'm going to trim it, put a collar of hen on there, cap it with a mallard flank feather and then work my way up doing that same exact thing where I'm going translucy. Hen if you want to do a flank back, you know, then another flank back and I'll go like I said, shank off the back.My hook for the rear is that XO 774 universal curve by Ahrex. I really like that hook. It's black, it's nickel plated. It's not a super heavy wire hook, but it's not going to bend out like a B10s size 4.So I'll use that in 2. I'll use it in 4, depending on what size. And then I'm going to go probably like smallest A10 to A15. You can mix anything up in there.If you want to use other shanks, you could use 11, 12, 13, 14, whatever. But two shanks there you will get a different swim out of it.If you just use like a 20 or a 25 between the two hooks, it will give you a different action. So play with it, see what you like. But I usually go two shanks and then I'll do the same thing.Another Senyo micro shank connection to that 2o Gatsu worm. Why do I use that hook one, it's, it's rarely, it's never failed me.Sure, if you catch 50 smallmouth on it and you're on in 16 pound or 15 and you're really reefing on them. Yeah, you'll get some bending and you'll probably retire a fly after a day. But it's a really good hook.It's got fine enough wire where, you know, you don't have to totally rip their faces off if you're, you know, guiding sports that aren't the most aggressive with their hooks at the gauge of the hook is thick enough to where you don't get a lot of spinning with the head, even if you kind of slack on the. On the front end of it. But I'll go hen. I'll go rattle. I'll go transluce. I will give a little plug for Blane. Those new rattle boxes are sick.I've been tying with those. So if you haven't played with those. The Chocklett Factory rattle boxes, awesome. Like your thread digs into them.I found myself recently tying with them where I. I like Veevus thread like 140. But when I get to that rattle box, I'LL switch over to like a semper fly, like nano silk.And that stuff just digs right into the grooves on those, on those rattle boxes. But you gotta be careful with those. I would use like a medium or a small because you gotta save room for that head.But anyways, pen, rattle box, wrapping through with a translucent. Then I'm gonna collar up some marabou. If you want to add a little extra spice in there, throw those accent feathers down the side.And then if you want to add a little more spice, take like a nature spirit, steelhead pink, steelhead red, UV schlepper, and give that a rip there to give you a little contrast and whatnot. And finish it off with you. Another translucy piece just to lock in that head when you're seating that head.If you're not using the Rainys ones and you're using the ones by cascade, take a bodkin and make sure that that channel is. Is kind of reamed out and it's straight. You'll get a lot of inconsistencies with that.That head where you go to push it through, and you'll kind of blow through the top of it or that hole. The channel's not exactly perfect.So if you got a, like a heavier bodkin that you can cut in there and kind of ream that out before you put it on, that's a little tip I can give you. But if you can seek out the Rainy's ones, which I highly recommend, they're really consistent.And note, guys, these aren't like, these heads aren't poured. So, right, this isn't like a mold. So they're going to be.It looks like they use some sort of dremel on them or something and put them on a lathe or whatever and hand shape them. But you're going to see inconsistencies in the style, the shape of the head, the width, the size of the collar, and whatnot on this particular head.So search through them at your local shop or here at Schultz Outfitters. We kind of buy them in bulk now, and if they're really, really bad, we kind of just discard them. But the rainy ones are very consistent.You're going to probably, you know, 95 to 98% of the packages are going to have three good ones in it. But make sure you check it before you put super glue on. That's another little tip.Don't just wrap your whatever brush you're using or chenille you're using to kind of absorb that super glue. To seat that head, make sure you double check before you put all that gel super glue on that material and then just jam that head on there.Because if you can't get it all the way on, it's not going to swim. So it's got to be lined up straight and. And you're pretty much done.I mean really like we got going back to what we talked about, you know, you're putting in the time at the base.So do it right and you do that right and attach this bad boy to an intermediate line and proper leader and fishing at the right angle, it's going to be some of the most consistent swimming. You're going to get out of a, out of a swim fly due to that head driving the train.

Marvin Cash00:30:17

Yeah. Interesting.And do you ever like, you know, tune the, the head kind of like Tommy does on the drunks to get different swims or to make them flatter or steeper or like put a collar behind them if you wanted them to dig more? Anything like that.

Mike Schultz00:30:31

So I'm nerdy with it. So I'll grab different shapes to achieve different, different things.So early season, like, you know, if we're going to be pushing it in that 45° to 40 to 45° water, I tend to try to tie them with either a medium head or I'll find some that are just extremely wide and kind of blunt because like I said, they're not going to be, they're not all going to be the same. But you know, they swim like if they're.If you think about this, right, if it's, if it's really narrow with a small collar, it's not going to have as much side to side darting to it as if it was slightly wider with a big collar.And then also feel like when you, when you buy these things, you can look at the back of them and it doesn't happen often, but sometimes they're really thin and you could just take your finger and just kind of smash them down, right? Or just like there's not much foam there on the collar.That one's not going to behave as well as one that's fairly stiff and it's got a little more foam to it. But the shape of the head drives a train.So if you got narrow ones, they're going to swim tighter and if they're wider and they have more foam, they're going to go side to side more. So, you know, I think that the colder water kind of like goes back to the old crankbait guys talking about cranking for bass.Like, you want that wide wobble in that. In that cold water, and you want that tighter wobble in the warmer water. So that's kind of.I've kind of seen enough on the water to know kind of what I want. And then the earlier in the season when it's cold, man, you don't need to take the fly away from them.What's really cool about this fly is it will swim and kind of stay in a zone if you allow it to where you can just kind of crack it around. And if you're fishing it at the proper angle With a little bit of push, A little bit of current on it, then. Yeah.And it's almost like you can just dance it in front of log jams in front of structure. And eventually they'll. They'll attack it, you know, because they get sick of looking at it, you know?

Marvin Cash00:32:46

And. Yeah, I also would put a plug in for the rattle boxes from Blane. But, you know, that's one of the. If you have, like, the.I guess the pill rattles, that's a place almost like tying in, like, lead eyes that people get screwed up. You have any tips for folks to, you know, get those things locked down so they don't roll on the hook?

Mike Schultz00:33:02

Yeah, if you're.If you are tying with, you know, like an old school, you know, 5 millimeter single bead glass, or there's another cool one out there if you don't want the bulk of the rattle box, you know that it gives you a little more shoulder to your fly if you want, or you can't get them for some reason. There's another company out there that we. We sell on the conventional tackle side called zapu, and they make a plastic rattle.Not the one with the little nipple on it where you attach it to a, you know, rubber, like on a jig. But they're pointed. They're meant to be able to just jam them into soft plastics. But nothing worse than cracking that fly off.You know, tie a 2.0 and get. You're all proud of it. It looks great and it's fishing great.And then you crack it off a rock or a piece of rip rap or a bridge or even a piece of wood. And then you just rattle. Bash the rattle on your glass rattle bus. So I personally haven't used glass rattles in probably about five years.So before the Blane rattle boxes came along, I just bought a bunch of those zappus and used plastic. But going back to your original question, if you. If you tie it, the way that I was talking about using Sanyo's micro shank. So if you.Especially if you're tying like the. With the 23 millimeter version that's going to run parallel to your. To your hook shank, that rattle will.Those glass rattles of those plastics will kind of just fit perfectly in that little groove that you're creating with the two shanks. The shank and the. Of the hook and the shank of the shank run in parallel. You can just kind of set it in there. But usually I'll in on a thread base.I like a thread that. That, you know, not a nano silk to tie in glass or a gel spun to tie in glass. You want something that will stretch. So I'm a big fan of the Veevus 140.And when I'm tying in my rattles, I. Whether they're plastic or glass, I use that where I can.You know, just like your tying with deer hair, you know, you kind of put the tension on it coming up. You put the tension on it going down. That thread's gonna get a stretch and kind of chokehold on that on that rattle.And then I slather it with Wapsi gel brushable. And I gel but wopsy brushable super glue like that just. It's on my desk. Do that. And by then I'm tying in my translucy.While that's still tacky, I'm wrapping that translucy or whatever thin brush you know you want to use, whether it be the translucy or Blane's cactus tackle or whatever the heck they call that stuff now. And you just wrap that through and now you got that glue that just kind of holds that and you're making an indestructible fly as you move forward.

Marvin Cash00:35:52

Yeah. And I guess if folks don't have the wopsy glue, do they have to worry about any of these, I guess non resins melting a plastic rattle?

Mike Schultz00:36:00

I've not had that problem.

Marvin Cash00:36:02

So.

Mike Schultz00:36:03

Yeah, I mean we literally sell hundreds of bottles of that stuff. It's just. I think it's. It's just Wapsi brushable super glue. I mean, it's on our website. You can get it.It's one of those things that once you buy it, it just becomes part of your, you know, your tying kit. And you'll. You'll never tie without it if you're a streamer tier. And Jesse showed me a little cool trick that he was doing with his.Is the one thing that happens with that, you know, like all super glue. Right. You just. It. If it leaks Then it super glues, you know, the cap shut.But what he's been doing is take a little bit of wax and put the wax around the threads on the, on the super glue. And that is keeping, you know, keeping his super glue from super gluing itself together.

Marvin Cash00:36:50

Yeah, that's super frustrating. And you get the pliers out and you break the bottle in half, and then you have a hell of a mess.

Mike Schultz00:36:56

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Marvin Cash00:36:57

Yeah.

Mike Schultz00:36:57

And then we did talk a little bit about keels, but I mean, the keels are, you know, when it comes to keeling this fly, it's like, what do you want it to do? Right? Like, more times than not, I want to have immediate, you know, penetration. When I hit that, that fly hits the water.I don't want it to wallow up on the surface. I want it to get below the surface, you know, so we just wrap, you know, 020-02-5030, depending on what we're doing.That's something to just lives in the boat with me, you know, and I'm making on stream adjustments. But if you're tying at home and you don't, you're not going to be in a boat, it's going to be a pain in the butt.I would just start off with 025 and put 10 wraps on that 2o worm hook up front. And you can either use a flexible resin, which is what I usually use if I'm doing it at the bike.So wrap my 025 or 020 or 030 on that bend and then I'll take that rain zap or solar res flexible resin, and I will lather it up on there and hit it with the light. And, you know, say you're on the river and you want to get rid of half of it. Grab your needle nose or grab your nippers or whatever you got that.You can get in there and kind of break, break away that flexible resin and then just take away what you don't want if you're committing to it. And like, this is how I'm going to fish. And I know because, you know, I fish this piece of water all the time. And tomorrow it's running at 2000 CFS.And I know that I need a, you know, a certain amount of weight on it. There's another product that we use quite a bit from Hareline, distributes it. It's just the rib tungsten scud and shrimp bodies.So they make those in small, medium and large. They're all made of tungsten. So A lot know a little goes a long ways.Usually on those, the swinging D, I'm only using the smalls or maybe the mediums. In our rivers, the large will be a little too much.But having said that, that's like if I'm using a craft for changer or a flutter craft or you know, big feather changers with brush heads where I'm trying to have that same kind of balancing act going where I'm suspending these flies. I'll use up to a size large of those tungsten scud shrimp bodies on the front hook to get me down.So, you know, that's the, the game you can play with these. You're playing a balancing act between the foam and the overall weight of the fly to achieve the depth that you want where it just hangs.And yeah, that's, that's the game, man.

Marvin Cash00:39:39

Very neat. And so, you know, as we kind of shift to presentation and you know, you're fishing this kind of in the upper part of the column with some variations.You want to kind of talk your preferred kind of rod line and leader setups and kind of where in the upper part of the column you use those to fish the D. Yeah, well.

Mike Schultz00:39:56

Like for those of you that don't know, like, the rivers that we fish around here aren't crazy busy or aren't crazy busy gas. And they're not crazy deep. Right. So they're small pieces of water.So, you know, I would say, safe to say that the time of year that I'm fishing these flies, I'm not catching fish in more than six feet of water. Most of the fish are coming two to four feet in depth. A hundred percent of my fishing during peak season is from a boat.So you're able to, you know, in unison with the, the rower, you're able to fish at a desired speed. And usually with this fly pattern, it's, it's fish from a moving boat. Yes.There's going to be times where the oarsman is going to crack the, the oars and kind of hold you in position and you know, hot areas. But if we're just kind of prospecting, you know, we're going at the speed of the current, slightly slower and just kind of working our way down.This fly is going to be fished out more times than not on a 45 degree angle. You know, I don't feel like you got to be a hero with the distance of how far you, you cast this thing.I, I catch more big fish with anglers that can cast 30ft than big fish with anglers that can cast 80ft. So keeping things tight, keeping your eyes on that fly, fly line and leader setup, I'm gonna have a 7 weight or an 8 weight rod 99.9% of the time.Gonna fish an intermediate line on it. My two favorite rods that I, that I fit. My favorite rod that I fish with clients is the Loomis V2 streamer IMX Pro V2 streamer.They make it in seven, they make it an eight, the eight foot ten inch in length and then the rad that I designed with with Loomis, the swim fly NRX plus. And then I'm going to couple that with an intermediate line.So you know, we sell intermediate lines from Airflo, we sell intermediate lines from SA and the guides use both. I've used both for years. Early season we're going to run the cold weather versions of those lines.Airflo has one called the four season sniper and you're going to run that in the fast intermediate version and, or if you're fishing sa, you're going to run the full Titan, what do they call it? Titan, full intermediate.And that's going to be, you know, the line and then you're going to tie yourself a hand tied leader off that, you know, leaders are up to you. I don't think you can really go wrong as long as you can turn the thing over.And if you're fishing up here, you're going to probably be running 15 or 16 for your your tip it to your fly on these bigger flies. If not, you're going to be donating them to pike.So I usually run 16 and I use a specific fluorocarbon made by hatch that survives pike encounters more times than not.But leader length you're going to run, you know, on a short end of the stick, I'd say four feet on long seven, it's kind of your leader just depending on the conditions, how big a water you're fishing, what you're looking to get out of your fly, the longer the leader, you know, like I think you need to be a little more skilled with the longer leaders, the shorter, the shorter leash is preferred.A lot of times when you're fishing with anglers that don't spend a ton of time on the water, but to each their own, you can, you know, each guide has their own opinion on that. But if it turns over and doesn't get bit off by every pike that eats it, I think you're doing something right.And the only time this fly pattern really doesn't swim worth A damn is if you're fishing it on the downstream, you know, you need that, that tension, that resistance on the, on the head to make it really do what it does good. And that's dance and looking like a wounded bait fish.So, you know, as long as you're out there, you know, greater than a 45 down, you know, or around a 45 down, you know, you're, you're, you're in the game. And you're keeping your rod tip 12 to 18 inches off the water. And you're just working on making that thing look super erratic.So no robot retrieves, you know, mixing it up. Crack it once, let it sit, crack it twice, let it sit. Three quick ones, let it sit, you know, back to one. Just mix it up.And always look around your fly. You know, look around your fly. Don't just get locked in on just the fly because you'll see them coming.And you know, I spend those 10, 11 weeks every spring and there's not much sitting down. It's for fishing a streamer. I'm standing up and I think that's, that's my favorite part of fishing big swim flies.Whether it be a, a D or a big feather changer with a brush head or a leggy boy or whatever, it's just seeing that eat, you know, and looking around your fly so you get, you get the full experience as you're fishing it. But yeah, it's, it fishes itself if you just, if you just work it the right way.

Marvin Cash00:45:32

Yeah. And just backing up just a second on leader, I assume you're running that to some type of loop knot on the fly. And no swivels. No swivels, right.

Mike Schultz00:45:40

Yeah, I don't run any swivels.

Marvin Cash00:45:42

No.

Mike Schultz00:45:42

I just go straight up. And as long as you get that head on there straight and you know, the fly isn't a complete mess. It's.You're not going to get, you're not going to get twisting in the, in the line. From my experience, doesn't matter what fly line you're running, tie the fly right and it'll, it'll perform for you.

Marvin Cash00:46:03

Yeah.And you know, just for folks that can't put their hands on those loomises, because I know kind of in doing, you know, multiple interviews at the butcher shop, you know, all of you guys, you, you mind talking about kind of the way the tip works and it's not as soft as like some trout rods and other rods and why you like that for fly action?

Mike Schultz00:46:22

Yeah, I mean, like, think about this, like Assault. Like everybody used to use saltwater rods to go streamer fishing, right?Like they, they cast great, you know, but they're all designed to fish floating line. Like, you know, the, these.I, I assume that these major manufacturers that are creating 9 foot 8 weight rods, you know, their, their target is, is flats fishing, right? So you're throwing a crab fly or a bead chain, bonefish fly or permit crab or whatever, right? That's what that rod's designed to do.It's not designed to, to cast these shorter lines. Maybe a sink tip in some situations. Definitely intermediates. You know, they're not designed to do that. They're designed to throw, throw floaters.So the rods that are designed for streamers, you know, the ones that are out there are, you know, designed to throw your, your reverse engineering it, right? You got a fly line that you really like and you're, you're building a rod that throws that fly line and then also animates the flies correctly.You know, my rod isn't for everybody. If you're a beginner, that's probably not the rod for you.You know, it's a rod built for, for someone that can really get the most out of a rod, casting wise. And you know, little movements of the rod transfer to the fly that make it, make it easier after a long day of fishing. So they're slightly shorter.You know, most of these Streamer rods are 8, 8 to 8, 10. Now you know, there's other manufacturers who now come out with eight tens that are kind of streamer driven, eight eights that are streamer driven.But yeah, it's just a different, different setup for doing different things. You know, you're saltwater fishing, you're making shots to fish that you can see your streamer fishing.You're casting all day, animating that fly all day. So there's now tools for it. And you know, those happen to be, you know, to my favorite.I think that, that mid price rod, that IMAX Pro V2, I think that comes in at like 595. And I would say more people cast that rod better than, than my rod. When it comes to clients. It's just a very easy casting, forgiving, forgiving rod.So there's a lot of options out there. I'm sure, I'm sure your local fly shop will allow you to go out and take them for a ride.You know, that's, that's how you get when you're picking out your, the rod to do this. You know, how big is the cork, how big is your hand. You know, like there's so many factors, you know, when it comes to purchasing a rod.You know, anybody that doesn't go out and actually cast the rod with the fly line that they're going to be using on it, it's kind of, kind of silly if you ask me.

Marvin Cash00:49:02

Yeah, that's a little nuts. Although I'll tell you, it's harder and harder to find shops like yours. So you know, people, you know, if you can't, can't find it locally.Now that we now have your E Commerce solution, they should reach out, right?

Mike Schultz00:49:14

Yeah, for sure. For sure. We got you. We definitely got you covered.And you know when you call here, you're going to talk to somebody that knows the product and fish is hard.

Marvin Cash00:49:22

Yeah. And so, you know, shifting gears, I'm kind of shocked.We were kind of talking about like we're, we're ready to kind of get through all this cool stuff to march and catch our breath. But you know, in less than a month the fourth annual Bob on the Hood is going to going to go down.You want to let folks know what to expect this year?

Mike Schultz00:49:37

Yeah, I mean it's you know, similar to years past. But every year we, the crowd grows and we, we step up our game.So if you're coming to town from out of town per usual, we got a hotel block over at the Marriott Fairfield Marriott here, about three miles from the shop. There's a room block over there. So that's where most people stay. Everything's going to kick off Friday night.George Daniel is going to be doing a presentation here with some giveaways and whatnot. Kind of a welcoming pre party of sorts that has been growing every year. You'll be able to pick up your wristband and whatnot that night.And then Saturday I believe the doors open at 10, they open up at nine here. We'll have a whiting Wednesday on Saturday this year here at the at Bobbin.So that'll be you know, a nice little rush there at 9am when the shop opens for a feather drop. And we're, we're working on details on that this week but that's happening and then all day at the show. So 10 to 5 we'll have the show.There's like 45 tires. Continue to rotate the out of town people and bring in fresh blood.We'll have the hot seat going here at the shop and the guys that aren't in the industry but are great tires, they'll be here whipping up some flies at the shop. Obviously have deals and promotions going on during the event and then the parties goes on.As soon as that's done at 5 o' clock everyone kind of makes the 125 yard walk over to the store and we'll have the festivities kicking off at six with of course one bugger, one brat, one beer. We've got some great contestants. I could, I just got the graphic today. Marvin, would you like me to tell you who's, who's competing this year?

Marvin Cash00:51:31

Absolutely.

Mike Schultz00:51:32

All right, let's see here. I'm looking at my phone. I know, I know. We got some returners. We got Mike Schmidt coming up for it. Chris Keller from Montana Fly.He's going to take his second shot at it. Former champion AK Vitto, one of our Ecom guys, he's going to be in it this year.Peter Marcano from Simms, he's stepping up, bringing, bringing his appetite for Montana. Ross Davis, last year's reigning champion. He once again will be in it.We got a pretty, a lot of large humans in this one but we needed a little guy so we asked Matt Stockton to do it. The artist. So Stockton's gonna do is his best. And then Ryan Gates, another customer of ours and then Biggie, one of our employees.Biggie is going to be in it. So that's going to be at 6 o'. Clock. The title kind of explains it.You got to sit there, you got to crank out one bugger, you gotta eat a brat and you gotta drink a beer and it's quite entertaining after, after a couple drinks. So that'll be going on at 6 and then after that we have giveaways.And last year I think, I don't know if you were here late but I, I think it, the party out back went till about 11. So yeah, we have the tents up and whatnot and then Sunday's classes. So we'll have the classes with, with all the talent on Sundays.

Marvin Cash00:53:02

Yeah.And you know this will drop right before bobbin but there probably won't be any tickets left because you guys, I don't think you only got a handful left but people can always swing by the store. There'll be plenty of cool stuff going on there during the day, right?

Mike Schultz00:53:15

Correct. Yeah. There's 200 tickets up for grabs this year. I think as of last night we had 190 sold.So there's, I'm sure by the time this comes out those will all be gone. But yeah, I mean it just, it grows every year.We did a whole bunch of cool stuff this year for the tickets where we had a platinum ticket, the deck supported and you got a decked box. It was worth like 100 bucks. The platinum tickets come with the killer goodie bag which is features products from Montana Fly and Whiting and Yeti.And then your general admission tickets were kind of released after those first 140 went. So yeah, looking forward to a killer set of sponsors this year.Per usual, like I mentioned before, the big guys that always step up, you got Ahrex, Montana fly, Yeti. You know, the guys at Hedron support it. Blane obviously supports it, Sight Cast, Renzetti, Regal, Dyna King. So that's going to be pretty cool.I got the only thing that's changed this year really on the, the Saturday show front is we have, we got our, I guess policy to serve alcohol over at the Freight house. So we'll have a, have a bartender over there serving up some drinks. So we want to come over here.

Marvin Cash00:54:39

Yeah, Bloody Marys are always good, right?

Mike Schultz00:54:41

Right. Yeah, yeah. So. So yeah, man, the part, it's a big party.It's, it's good to get everyone together and you know, it's from the beginning of it, you know, putting it together, the vision for it, it was like, you know, let's get a bunch of like minded people together, but let's get, you know, the best of the best guys that get along with each other and you know, just, you know, if you look at the list, there's a lot of really good humans on there that have contributed to, you know, what we love to do and that's tie feathers and fur on hooks and go out and chase wild fish and, and rivers and whatnot. So usually a pretty damn good time. Look forward to this year.

Marvin Cash00:55:22

Yeah, it's amazing.I mean I've, you know, do the show thing a lot in a lot of different places and I think that, you know, Bobbin is the biggest collection of fishy people that tie anywhere, right?

Mike Schultz00:55:34

Yeah, definitely, definitely.For our area, you know, you're pulling, pulling the core of the Midwest crew and you know, there are a few guys that just aren't able to make it because they're traveling that time of year and guiding other places. But like I said, you know, you got the core of the guys that get along that can have contributed to the knowledge base in this area.And we all, we've all benefited from it and they're all good people where you can just sit there and talk with them and you know, that's from the end, you know this, you've been here, it's like it's not designed to be like a show that, you know, costs $5 to get in where there's a million people or you can't even, you know, strike up a conversation with the people. You came there to see where this is.Like you've got the opportunity to sit down, watch them tie, ask them questions and then after, when it's all done, you can have a beer with them, hang out at the shop, maybe find them at the local watering hole late night, you know, it's a pretty cool experience.

Marvin Cash00:56:30

Yeah, absolutely. Are there going to be any other places kind of during 2026 show season people can find the so crew.

Mike Schultz00:56:36

Yeah, this week, today I just started packing up for which will be over by the time you hear this but the ultimate fishing show in Detroit. And then we're putting together a new, a new show show to so to speak. It's just going to be like a spring angling expo. It's going to be March 21st.It's going to be at the same exact venue as Bob in the Hood, which is the Ypsilanti freight house about 100 yards from where I'm sitting right now. And it's going to be a blend of conventional and fly.There'll be more coming on that, but if you check out Instagram, I'm sure you'll see the little drops we've been doing on the stories of who's coming.And yeah, it's just going to be our take on and you know, the spring show that, that third weekend in March is kind of right when we start guiding, right when you know, your, your average angler is kind of starting to think about it and you know, it's just a great time of year to knock the dust off and start thinking fishing because you know, the best fishing of the year in my opinion around here when it comes to bass is that April, May window, you know.So March 21st there'll be an event here consist of both conventional and fly fishing reps, conventional and fly fishing anglers, talent, guys that are coming from the fly game that you guys may recognize. Alex Lafkus, Chris Willen, Russ Maddin's coming, obviously our crew of guides and whatnot.But it's going to be a similar vibe to Bobbin and we hope to build on it and take it from a one day show to maybe a two or three day show down the road. So that'll be the big one for us.And then we are taking the whole spring and summer off from events and we won't really do anything around here again until our fall kickoff event in September.

Marvin Cash00:58:33

Gotcha. And before I let you hop this evening, Mike, anything else you want to share with our listeners?

Mike Schultz00:58:38

No, just thanks for the time, Marvin. Thanks for getting all this stuff, you know, kind of documented.It's, you know, obviously a lot of things have changed in our industry and things are coming, coming at us faster than ever on the social medias and whatnot. And it's fun to go back and think about simpler times even though it was only 15 years ago.You know, having to source the materials and how much things have changed and you know, mutual friends of ours, how much they've influenced the way we tie and the way we angle these days. It's, it's cool to reflect and think about it.Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's a great, it's been a great ride and I look forward to doing this for many, many years.

Marvin Cash00:59:21

Yeah, there you go. And you know, what's the best way, Mike, for folks to kind of follow your adventures at the vice, at the shop, or on the water?

Mike Schultz00:59:27

Yeah, so if you're on Instagram, just Schultz Outfitters, Facebook, just Schultz Outfitters. And then if you're a customer of the shop, we, we throw some stuff up on the Schultz Outfitters customer forum.So if you request to be in on that, it's a, it's an ever growing community at this point since we got a whole bunch of new friends with the E. Comm.But if you request to be a member and we cross reference and see that you actually purchase things from the store and you're not some robot or troll, we'll let you in. But there's a lot of stuff that kind of hits that first kind of. We've kind of established a little thing on there called custies. Get it first.And that's kind of the first place to get the news before classes get offered to the general public or events get offered to the general public. So that's the Schultz Outfitters customer form. Yeah, and that's about it, man.Nick's gonna be hitting it hard with the, with the YouTube and social media stuff this year.So look for us to be a little more aggressive on there and be throwing out some, some nuggets of info and cool stuff that, you know, kind of has come out of our camp here in southern Michigan.

Marvin Cash01:00:35

Very neat. Well, I'll drop links to all that stuff in the show notes.

Mike Schultz01:00:39

Awesome, brother. Well, thank you so much for your time, man.

Marvin Cash01:00:41

Absolutely. Take care. See you soon.

Mike Schultz01:00:43

See you brother.

Marvin Cash01:00:45

Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Before we leave you, one more thing. If you listen to the podcast, you know about TroutRoutes.If you fish Midwest lakes, you owe it yourself to check out its sister app, onX Fish Midwest onX Fish takes the guesswork out of finding new places to fish.Search and filter lakes by species size and abundance, plus get local details and background info so you can show up with a Plan A and as many backup plans as you want. Make the most of your time on the water. Head over to onxmaps.com today. And remember, links to all this episode's sponsors are in the show notes.Check them out. Fish hard folks.