S1, Ep 31: Landon Mayer of Landon Mayer Fly Fishing

**Marvin Cash (00:04):**
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly, and I'm joined tonight by Landon Mayer of Landon Mayer Fly Fishing. How's it going, Landon?

**Landon Mayer (00:12):**
I'm great. How are you doing, Marvin?

**Marvin Cash (00:13):**
Just trying to stay out of trouble. Before we get to the meat of the interview, folks, we're in the process of working on advertisers. If you like the podcast, it'd be great if you give us a review on iTunes and subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice. And I want to give a shout out to tonight's sponsor, the first fly shop in Bryson City, North Carolina, Tuckasegee Fly Shop. They have two locations, one in Bryson City and one in Sylva. You owe it to yourself to go by the shops, visit with Dale and Bobby and the shop dogs and the rest of their crew.

Well, Landon, I always ask all of my guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

**Landon Mayer (00:50):**
Absolutely. So for me, my earliest memory was with my brother, Sean, and it was when we were fishing Eleven Mile Reservoir. I believe at the time I was six or seven years old. And I'll never forget it because at that moment when the day was about finished, we had 30 minutes left. We were getting ready to wrap it up. He did one more cast out and ended up hooking what at the time seemed like a giant fish. And it was a great landed, like an 18-inch rainbow. It was so much excitement. This was so grand. And just the whole experience when I watched him fight it and we were so enthusiastic about it, that I think is what would help me build the drive and motivation to really find so much excitement for each fish that we hooked up. But that was definitely one that sticks in the memory bank.

**Marvin Cash (01:40):**
Awesome. And were you fishing with gear or live bait or fly fishing?

**Landon Mayer (01:45):**
No, we had some gear and he also had a fly rod. We did a mix of both, and I think he hooked that one on, if I wasn't mistaken, a Rooster Tail. But we had tried some fly fishing on the edge, through some lures, and at that time, it was more the adventure hiking back into some of the back base and some of the cool rock formations and beautiful sky and the water just pushing up on the edge of the rocks. It's such a vast menu of water and fish, and you always wonder what jaws is lying below.

**Marvin Cash (02:16):**
That's awesome. So when did you officially move over to the dark side of fly fishing?

**Landon Mayer (02:21):**
You know, that started for me around, I want to say eight, nine years old. It was the year when it really hit me. And I ended up going into Eleven Mile Canyon with my family. And I'll never forget watching some of these anglers in this awesome light just making these casts that looked like so much fun. There were so many people that day that were really doing it. I decided when we got back that we were going to go visit the local fly shop, which was the Angler's Cubby. And that really was my memory of starting point for fly fishing. And that was my learning and stomping grounds was Eleven Mile Canyon. And I think it's one of the, not only in Colorado, but one of the prettiest canyons I've ever seen just because there's so much access to water. It's so diverse. It was, yeah, that one just stuck deep, deep in my memory bank.

**Marvin Cash (03:15):**
Well, that's great. So you were pretty young when you started fly fishing. Who were some of the people that mentored you as you worked on your fly fishing jobs?

**Landon Mayer (03:25):**
Yeah, so it was really interesting. I have a friend of the family, Danny, helped me out quite a bit. My brother was a big influence because he also found passion and drive. And then there was a few people in my school. One in particular was a teacher, her name, Barb Hangrak. And she was at Challenger Middle School. And I'll never forget, she was kind enough to show me some great casting tips and techniques. And that's when I met Barb, we ended up family going out with her and we fished in the Black Canyon. And I'll never forget doing the caddis dry fly hatch. And that was kind of the starting point in realizing that there were so many great adventures out there. And it continued to progress from there. But that was a big influence for me because at the time in middle school, I was involved in sports, baseball and football. And I still had that drive and passion for fishing. And every time she would go on a trip, she'd always call and invite our family. And that really did spark the flame for us.

**Marvin Cash (04:26):**
Well, that's awesome. And when did you decide that you wanted to be a fishing guide?

**Landon Mayer (04:33):**
You know, for me, that started, it really started building the interest for it when I was in high school. And also, I should say middle school as well. One of the other big influences for me. So after Barb introduced me to fly fishing on the scale of, you know, traveling and seeing all these different bugs and going into the Angler's Cubby, I decided to tie. And my mom was nice enough to buy me a present for my 13th birthday. And it was a tying class with Gary Alameda at the Angler's Cubby. And from there, I seen from another angler and realized we talked to people in the shop, just how much of an influence they had. And it seemed on the trip, they were excited, very enthusiastic. Greg Blessing walked the shop and talking about his trip that day and how awesome the dry fly session was. And that's when it kind of started, really did pique my interest. But in high school, I realized that this could not only be something where you can motivate others, share and give back, but something you could do on a more regular basis during the summer. And that's, I think, my sophomore year in high school is when I realized I wanted to guide. I didn't know how big of a scale, but I knew I wanted to have that part in being an influence to others and an influence to the sport.

**Marvin Cash (05:50):**
Yeah. And so you probably kind of start kind of moonlighting right on summer vacations in high school, and kind of how long did it take you to kind of, you know, grow your book to be a full-time fishing guide?

**Landon Mayer (06:05):**
That's a great question. So I really didn't know what to expect. When I was a senior in high school, I reached out to an individual by the name of Dusty Sprague with Colorado Fishing Adventures. And he also had a manager at the time, Tony Gibson. And I asked them both, you know, is it possible I could guide? Is it possible to do a trip? They allowed me to go and ghost a trip or two with the likes of Gary Tibbetts and Matt Bynum. So I went on two trips, watched how they would teach and how the trip ran, the process and the timing and all that good stuff. And then when I came back, I asked them, you know, is there a chance I can start part-time, get my financial aid? I really didn't have many expectations. At that time, I also did not realize that Ed Engle and Phil Cameron, some of the other at the time, and great influences, teachers and individuals and celebrities in the sport, they were guiding there. Basically, whenever Ed or Phil wanted a day off, they would call and ask me if I wanted to do the trip. And that's kind of how I got my foot into the door. But I didn't know. I asked that question to Dusty. When is a good starting point? How many years should you have on the water? And I think for myself, I felt comfortable because starting in middle school, starting to get into fly fishing and then doing it through my high school years, I had probably four to five years under my belt of being around the water a fair amount. And I would say that's a good, generally speaking, that's probably a good starting point, at least four or five years where you're comfortable every season or different seasons and different hatches and whatnot.

**Marvin Cash (07:44):**
And did you have to do a tour of duty on the retail side of the business or did you pretty

**Landon Mayer (07:48):**
much stay all fly fishing guiding? No, no, and that's another step in the retail direction which is really awesome. So when I started guiding at Colorado Fishing Adventures, I found some other anglers with the same passion and enthusiasm. And one of those individuals was Matt Wilkerson who was an amazing angler, wonderful just a true wizard on the vice and ties some amazing streamers. We became friends. And then he used to the Tomlinsons who own the Peak Fly Shop. And knowing them and building that friendship, he allowed me opportunities to start helping them with fly fishing shows and the retail side of things, helping them in the shop. They eventually started doing some trips on their own through the shop, chance to share some of those adventures and also hosting trips. And that's what really bled me into the retail side of the lot, not only how important it is to have a home shop, but also how much hard work is involved in the behind the scenes. You know, when they're loading up the truck and it takes a day and a half to get everything ready and then go to the show and then set it up, then break it down and bring it back. I mean, it's a six to seven day process. So it really did open my eyes to that world.

**Marvin Cash (09:06):**
Yeah, that's really interesting. And, you know, I have to ask all of my fishing guide interviewees to share, you know, what they think the biggest

**Landon Mayer (09:19):**
misconception people have about the life of a fishing guide. You know, in my opinion, I think the misconception is not the act and the art of the trip at hand or what you're learning on the water. I think what they miss is how much scouting takes place before and after the trip. And behind the scene, the way the trip evolves, it's like a checkers or chess game for the guide. So we're thinking about not only how to prepare, because in my opinion, the way to become an ultimate guide is in preparation. You have to prepare for the next day, but you're also thinking about the next day and in your mind you're playing that chess game wondering where should I go, what time should I start, what does the weather look like. So I think for anglers they may think that it's a lot of its base what's in front of them or what's in hand right there and right at that time on the water. But I would say the biggest misconception is that most of the work goes into the day that you're there with the guide. I would say probably more work goes into the preparation before or after the trip.

**Marvin Cash (10:35):**
No, it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, you've been guiding professionally for a little over 20 years. And, you know, what does it take to have that kind of longevity? Because, I mean, you know, I know lots of guys that did it for a little while and then they stopped after five or six years, but there are not a lot of guys that are like you that have put in, you know, 20 plus years on the water.

**Landon Mayer (10:56):**
Right. For my, and that's a great question because there is that moment when you're guiding or giving back or you're on the water where you have to be honest with yourself. And I was honest a few years in. I promised myself if I ever felt as if the trip was work and I wasn't able to, two things, if I wasn't able to learn, number one, and I wasn't able to enjoy the exciting moment that the angler had when I was with them, then I would be honest with myself and say, okay, I need to step back or maybe this isn't a direction I want to continue to follow. But the way my secret in keeping everything exciting and keeping myself motivated is I try to make every trip with every client different. So, for example, if I have a client that comes out three times a year and I've been working with them for 16 years, every single trip, whether it's teaching something new, learning from them, hitting still waters or rivers, as long as it's new and fresh, it intrigues myself, the angler and really starts that process where the wheels start spinning. And you evaluate the day and try to figure out how could we be better at this or how can we be better and make it more successful. So I think the act of making something new or just stepping outside of your comfort zone and trying something different is what really motivates me and keeps me going for the years I've been doing it.

**Marvin Cash (12:22):**
That's really interesting. And, you know, obviously, you know, you've been doing it, like we said, for a little over 20 years. How is your approach to guiding changed from when you first started to today?

**Landon Mayer (12:34):**
Oh, man, it's amazing. So when I first started, I would say the difference now with the time on the water compared to the very first day is I have a day to evolve. I'm now able as a maturing angler to allow everything to evolve and the day to play out in front of me and then react to what's happening. Instead of when I first started, I felt like I really needed to rush out there, needed to catch all the fish. We were able, we were going to try to do something, even though it wasn't happening, we're really going to try to make it happen. Now, kind of looking at the landscape, looking at the day, the weather, the timing, just letting things take place and then adapt and adjust. I think that's one of the biggest differences now. And it really, I think that does help so many times on the water where instead of forcing it, maybe adjusting, evolving with it, and then maybe that leads to trying something different. That really is the case, I would say, at least 50% of the time.

**Marvin Cash (13:38):**
Yeah, that's really interesting. And do you think that's sort of a maturity thing where, you know, you have the confidence that if it's, you know, right before lunch and things haven't gone the way that, you know, you want them to, that you're like, I've done this a lot before and I feel good

**Landon Mayer (13:50):**
if we try X, that we're going to get to where we want to be for the day? Sure. Yeah, I think it's a part of maturing as an angler and I think it's also a part of accepting the zero or the hero fact which if you try something new there's always the threat which we all need to accept as guides that it could be a hero where we get into the fish and that was something that changed that did work and the fish reacted in a positive way or if you try something doesn't work and it's a zero factor. But regardless, even if it's a zero, if you take the positive out of it and you allow it to influence yourself and then you teach your angler, this is the positive from the negative. I think that really does help quite a bit.

**Marvin Cash (14:35):**
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I know that you're known for catching big fish on small flies and lightweight tackle. Where did that passion come from in your fly fishing journey?

**Landon Mayer (14:49):**
Yeah, so that, honestly, I believe that came from the fact of, I'll never forget my third year guiding halfway through the season. And the South Platte River and its various drainages, I like to describe it as the South Platte River is five tailwaters that make a whole river system. And what's unique is each tailwater looks and flows different. So it is like fishing five rivers in one. And in pursuing the South Platte and really pursuing the fish, it was more of getting out there, understanding the elements, conditions. And then during the third year, there's so many times my clients would hook up on these big fish and the fish would get off. And, you know, it was very frustrating. It was exciting at the same time. And I would always go home and go, man, what is what's going on? Why are these fish getting off? How are we losing them? And then I just started looking at what was happening. That's the beauty of guiding is that you don't just see the fish and the water and the line. You see the whole landscape. So we see the angler, the rod, the reel, the line, the thing taking place and all the action in front of us. So then I just started watching when anglers hooked fish. But what I was looking for was not, when I was watching very closely, is not looking for the action, but I was looking at what would cause fish to break off. And that's what I started dissecting. And that's what led me to the passion and drive for large trout is that there's marginal room for error. You know, if you hook a good fish or an average size fish, they're all great. But an average size fish, the difference is you can get away with making mistakes in the steps along the process. And let's, for the sake of the discussion now, talk about fighting trout. So you can get away with some mistakes or the wrong move. But when you hook a large trout, because they're so powerful, because they're able to adapt and adjust and survive for so long, there is marginal room for error. So then it allows you and forces you to dissect step by step what's happening. And the excitement for me in that is that I think we all become better anglers.

**Marvin Cash (17:01):**
Very, very interesting. And I know, I guess you're, you know, you're relatively early in the season in Colorado. You know, for people that aren't familiar with where you guide, can you kind of briefly tell us where you fish and then also kind of, you know, every part of the country is different, kind of give us a feel for the arc of the fishing season in Colorado?

**Landon Mayer (17:20):**
Sure. No, absolutely. That's a great question. So I guide full time on the South Platte River. And I'm currently, I reside with my lovely wife, Michelle, and our four kids in Florissant, Colorado. And we work, our main office is in South Park, which is the headwaters of the South Platte. So we have the middle and the South Fork, which come together to form the headwaters of the South Platte. Then we have the Dream Stream, Eleven Mile Reservoir, Spinney Reservoir. And we also have and hold permits on the Blue River in Silverthorne. And then the other stretches that we guide is Deckers, Colorado, which is down near Woodland Park as the South Platte River flows beyond South Park. Those are some of the other stretches that we have access to and we love to fish on and teach as well. But that's, I believe South Park is our playground. It's a wonderful, it's around 60 miles in circumference. It's one of the largest plateau basins in North America, and it sits at 8,700 to 9,200 feet. So we're pretty high up. And that leads to the other question where the arc in the season for us, usually things transition and turn from winter fishing, which is challenging and fish lethargic. And you can get into them, but it really starts to arc and turn in the shoulder season when we go from April into May, which is about the timeframe now. Things thaw, the reservoirs open up, the rivers start to flow. And we'll fish pretty heavy all the way into November and leading into December. But November, it starts to slow down and still fish as well. And we can fish throughout the winter season. But I believe the arc and the peak is going now, you know, April through May. And then it continues to be all the way until about mid to late November.

**Marvin Cash (19:10):**
Yeah. And that's really great. If you've got a circle that's got a 60-mile circumference, it's great that you don't have to run, you know, a couple hours every day to get to the water too.

**Landon Mayer (19:19):**
Right. No, it is nice. And that's the beauty, I think, in what separates Colorado as a state, which is very unique about the state, is that no matter what section of Colorado that you're fishing or you reside, you could, in all honesty, within 45 minutes to an hour be on a tailwater, a freestone or a stillwater. So there's a heavy and large wealth of water, great areas to explore. And it's nice. We still have drives and all of that that takes place. But the other thing I appreciate about the giant valley setting and situations as well is the fact that we can walk, wade and cover today's trip. I ended up doing seven miles with my clients so we can drive and hike and being able to on foot walk and cover seven miles of water really does not only allow you to see different fish and have different opportunities, but as an angler, you learn so much because it's a very close encounters and intimate setting and it's between you and the fish and you're constantly searching for new zones.

**Marvin Cash (20:20):**
That's very, very interesting. And, you know, not only are you a fishing guide, but you're a really prolific author and outdoor writer. When did you get the writing bug?

**Landon Mayer (20:34):**
You know, that started outside. I think I was about 22, 23 years old. And I have to start by saying I joke with my wife and she razzes me about it, but I am definitely an angler before a writer. And writing is a skill I do love now. But it's a skill that I started learning from being a full-time guide and teaching on the water. And that's one thing I mentioned to all my clients and people I spend time with who are now friends of ours. And when I'm friends, I always explain that writing became comfortable after years of teaching to where when you're on the water, you see what you're teaching, you see what you're giving back. And they put that into words through text. And that's what really helped me become comfortable with that. But my first book was published when I was near 25 years old. And after I did that book with Wild River Press and Tom Pirro, I started building confidence and feeling more comfortable. And that really did start pushing into other opportunities. And I think for myself, too, the writing part of fly fishing is just a way to still stay involved and get back in more detail than sometimes what we can give on the water to one angler, two or three anglers who book a trip. By being able to publish an article, you're able to reach thousands of people with the same information and knowledge you may have taught somebody that day in hopes that other people can benefit from the knowledge and from the text as well. That's why I love writing is because it's such a large wealth of information that spreads throughout the world to other anglers if you don't have the time to spend, you know, hours on the water with all of them.

**Marvin Cash (22:20):**
Yeah. And I mean, you know, and to your point, there are only so many days you can guide and only so many speaking engagements and shows you can go to.

**Landon Mayer (22:28):**
Exactly. Exactly. And that's the power of text. And I don't think you'll ever die. I mean, I know that there's the art and skill of learning online, which we all take advantage of, and there's a huge benefit. But there's something comforting, and really it's nice to have the reference to go back to the pages of a book or the pages of an article that I think make a huge difference. And really the influences for writing for me, too. I mean, the whole process started. I have some really great dear friends, and one of my biggest mentors was John Barr. And meeting John Barr, I caught a brown trout. And I joke, but I tell people that one fish started my career. And it really is the case in fly fishing where I caught this brown trout on the South Platte River on a Copper John. And John Barr met me at the show and walked up to me and said, hey, Landon, I wanted to introduce myself and say thanks for using my fly. And I was blown away, not only because it was John Barr, you know, he's one of the people I looked up to and used so many of his bugs. But what blew me away about that was he was such a humble, nice man to come up and thank me for using his fly. I was like, man, that's awesome. And from there, it opened up a lot of windows for me where I met great individuals such as Jay Nichols, Ross Purnell, John Randolph with Fly Fisherman. And in regards to articles and being in the pages, they really did influence me and taught me so much. And that's the only reason I'm able to write and give back now was from their great insight information and forever. It's a learning process because I'm an angler before a writer, but that made a huge difference. And also Phil Monahan at the time with American Angler was kind enough to allow me to print a couple articles as well. But that was kind of the starting point. And it really is, it's amazing just being able to work with these great magazines.

**Marvin Cash (24:18):**
Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, that's the who's who of fly fishing literature right now. Do you remember your first paid writing assignment?

**Landon Mayer (24:28):**
I do. I think my first assignment was actually with High Country Angler, which High Country Angler is what I call my roots of fly fishing articles, not books like I had with Wild River Press, which since I've moved on to Stackpole and Lyons Stackpole, Globe and Pequot Press. There's so many other great people I need to thank for all their efforts and help. But High Country Angler magazine, run by Frank Martin and owned by Jack Talon, is a local magazine that was free and still is to this day available to all the Trout Unlimited members in the state of Colorado. And I started writing with them, gosh, I think it's 15 years ago. And I write an article for every issue and they do it quarterly. So they have four issues a year. And that was really my roots and my starting point. That was my very first published piece was with High Country Angler. And then after that, I did a piece for American Angler. And then, as I explained, meeting John Barr and the doors opening for Fly Fisherman. So really is this industry is really based on a lot of friendships and relationships. And I've been very fortunate. I'm one of the reasons I really am humbled to the sense where I'm thankful every day is because I realize that while these doors opened, it wasn't all by chance, but when these doors opened and I had these friendships build, it was a lot of people believing in me that gave me these opportunities. And that's why I believe in other people and also believe in giving back so great in this industry.

**Marvin Cash (26:07):**
Yeah, it really is true. You know, the more I think about it, Landon, you know, fly fishermen are incredibly generous. I mean, and you know, the way we met each other was through a common friend, Jason Randall.

**Landon Mayer (26:22):**
No, absolutely. And Jason's become a great friend and also a friend of Ed Engle. And we've been the trio many times on and off the water, but it was very nice of Jason to introduce me to you. And it's really nice when that takes place because it's, I believe, a genuine relationship that starts in friendship that is now turned into and evolved into the podcast. So it was wonderful for him to make that introduction and now our friendship to build. And it really is the kindness and generosity of greats like Jason as well.

**Marvin Cash (26:55):**
Yeah, it's really great. And he was tremendously supportive as I started this endeavor. And I've enjoyed getting to know him more. And it really is amazing how those circles build over time.

**Landon Mayer (27:08):**
Yes, I would totally agree with that. I mean, the friendships moving forward, too, with the likes of Jeff Currier, George Daniel, Blane Chocklett, the list goes on. There's so many wonderful people that we're all friends now and working together. Phil Rowley. I mean, there's so many people that when we're at shows or events and we're trying to help one another, it really is. It's a sport of growing. And that all, honestly, in my opinion, pertains to the legends and the greats, you know, the Lefty's and Dave Whitlock's and, you know, Denny Rickards on the stillwater side of it, Doug Swisher, Gary Borger. I mean, the list goes on there as well. There's so many great influences that what we watched them do is teach so many people the skills and the art of fly fishing and the fun that I think we all now realize, being in our own or different positions, that it's our obligation and duty to really make it positive for everybody else and move forward.

**Marvin Cash (28:07):**
Yeah, I think it's the only way that we're going to keep the sport growing. How do you... Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and how do you come up with the ideas for your articles and your books?

**Landon Mayer (28:19):**
Oh, that's another great question. So for me, when I write an article or a piece, it comes from the notes of being on the water guiding. And the reason that's important to me is because it's fresh content. So if I find, let's say we're fishing during the summer and I find a technique or a strategy that really has worked and performed well with clients, you know, for sake of timeframe, let's say six weeks. And it's gotten to the point where, you know, fine tuning and honing in the skill or fine tuning the way it's rigged or fine tuning the fly on the vice. When that all comes together and it inspires me to the point where I'm overly excited to show clients, that's when I write it down as a note. And then my notes evolve into articles where I start to build on that. And that's the process and the way I make outlines. It's so cool because it really is the truth in the text is from the truth on the water. So it's genuine knowledge and information and really, I think, something that could benefit a lot of anglers. So that's why text and writing articles are so important to me.

**Marvin Cash (29:32):**
That's really neat. And so you're collecting the ideas and kind of fleshing them out. How do you like to write? You know, are you a person that likes to write a little bit every day or do you find kind of the dead spots in the guiding season and you kind of hunker down and write a lot? How do you like to spin the cat?

**Landon Mayer (29:51):**
Yeah, well, thanks. Thanks to Ross Purnell and Jay Nichols for teaching me the art of spreading things out, because I used to try to just, you know, hunker down, bury yourself, lock yourself in the office, grab a couple of great beverages and try to knock it out. And then if it doesn't work or you're not in the right frame of mind, then the stress factor hits because the deadline's right around the corner. But what Jay and Ross have taught me over the years and others as well, Frank as well, Frank Martin is probably one of the most accomplished authors I've ever met. But he taught me as well that you, my personal opinion is you break it down, you know, 500, 250,000 words, whatever the word count is comfortable, crank out those words, let the text sit, come back the next day or a couple days later. So I do it bits and pieces. I'm a night owl and everybody jokes. I don't sleep. I actually do sleep, but it's minimal. It's like five hours a day. And that's kind of my comfort zone for sleep, five to six. But that being said, the reason I'm a night owl is I get home from a trip or home from fishing or an adventure. And while it's still fresh in the mind, that's where I like to jot it down in the notes or start to build that outline. But I'm definitely now piece by piece, put the article together. My early years, I tried to crank it out all in one piece. And the problem there for me was I would do a piece of 3,000 words, have three days to do it. And then once it's in the pipeline going to print, I think of something else and go, oh, man, I'd really like to add that. But at that point, it's too late. So that's why it's nice to kind of help it build and evolve.

**Marvin Cash (31:28):**
That's really interesting. And how did you transition from writing mostly articles to writing books and articles?

**Landon Mayer (31:37):**
Well, the articles for me were nice because there's not as much of a time restraint. You know, you can work on an article for a couple months, one month, a couple weeks, a week, whatever it is that you're comfortable with and cranking out the text and making sure it all supports the outline. Books, though, for myself was really after I published the book with Wild River Press and Tom Pirro, Jay Nichols reached out to me with a couple ideas. And from there, it was his confidence and honestly, his teachings. I mean, he really did take the time. And that's why we're close friends today is he took the time to really talk to me and teach me the ideas, the thought process, how to build the book, how to really, you know, build an outline that's effective and allow it to grow from there. And that to me was the biggest influence on books. And that's when I realized that when you write a book, it's in my opinion, my books are very similar to a full day guide trip or let's say a full season of guiding. It could be a day or a season or even a year on the water, but it was a chance for me to put all of these thoughts and all these racing ideas in my mind and put them into one place to where whenever I was done with the trip and a client at the end of the day, and I would say, oh, there's so many great things that you're going to encounter, so many great opportunities from what we learned today. Instead of just leaving it at that, I can then hand them a book and say, use this as a reference. And all those experiences you encounter moving forward from today, a lot of what we learn today is inside these pages. So that's really the power of the book and the influence and power of people that were like Jay Nichols kind enough to teach me about and how to become a better writer. Really, honestly, without all of these great people through the publishing companies and editors, copy editors, everybody behind the scenes, these books aren't even close to possible.

**Marvin Cash (33:37):**
Yeah, it's really interesting too. And I think, you know, what you said about building on the day on the water, you know, I think that's, I found that to be incredibly valuable to, you know, whether I read the book and then fish with the author or fish with the author and then read the book, you know, to be able to understand the lingo, right? Because everybody has a certain way they talk about things and it's super powerful if you're trying to improve, particularly, you know, if you're not lucky enough to be really in the industry where you can fish as much as you want to, you know, you got to figure out, you can figure out some way to get better. So you've written, you know, so you've written five books to date. And I think your first book was how to catch the biggest fish of your life. And you talked about that a little bit earlier in your most recent book that came out at the beginning of the year is the hunt for giant trout. How do these books track

**Landon Mayer (34:29):**
your evolution as an angler and a guide? Yeah, that's a great question. I really enjoyed reading some of the other work by great anglers along the way. And the reason I really liked that question is because it is a track record where my first book was allowing myself to express what I learned in my travels around the U.S. So let's use the example of the first book, How to Catch the Biggest Trout of Your Life. It was myself traveling around the U.S. and really trying to pursue large trout, different locations, thoughts and ideas. And then that leading into the new book, as I traveled in search for these fish over the years, I quickly realized that one of the best ways to become the ultimate angler, as I was able to give to clients and friends on the water, I also was able to take advantage of that in respects to learning from some of these great and just amazing people on the water. And that's what's led us to the new book, The Hunt for Giant Trout. So when I wanted to become better at streamers or learn the predator hunting game, going out with Blane Chocklett on the South Holston River took me to another level. Or when I wanted to go out to Pyramid Lake, learning from Doug Ouellette and Arlo Townsend, individuals like that took it to another level. So what I realized is there's so many great anglers that are also guides or teachers or shop owners in all these different states on all these amazing waterways. That's really why Jay, myself and Lyons Stackpole Books came together and said, well, let's make this project. Let's get inside the mind of predators, hunting predators. And in a sense, it's the same enthusiasm I felt is also what the 50 anglers that are included in the new book, The Hunt for Giant Trout Field, where they are out on their waters. And as a predator hunting large trout, their techniques, strategies and flies are really in depth and detail in the pages of the book. And that's what I think is amazing because it starts from how you feel about it, how you hunt large trout, and then it's evolved into 50 anglers. And the number one and most important thing is that they were kind enough and generous enough to donate all this great information within the pages for everybody else to enjoy. So it was an unbelievable, a very humbling experience.

**Marvin Cash (37:03):**
Yeah. And what was that creative process like? I mean, you know, gosh, you've got 50 incredibly talented people. I mean, that's so different than you sitting at home, you know, methodically working through a book outline and putting a book out. What was that like? I mean, how long did it take? Oh, man.

**Landon Mayer (37:21):**
So it took about three years. The process of putting the whole book together was around a year. So collecting the information, collecting the knowledge. And first and foremost, once you get the green light to move ahead with the project, grab your favorite bottle of whatever you like to drink and a nice stout 12-pack of beer and go home and try to relax the nerves. Because you understand that, like you said, these are 50 prominent anglers, very amazing and skilled individuals. And you want to try to, in your best ability and the publisher's best ability, convey their message and information the way they'd like it in pages. So after I got over those nerves, it was more of, for the book, what was incredible is three-day to four-day experiences. And the most exciting, and I literally came back from my trip with Bill Betts for Lower Talarik Creek at his lodge and his wonderful family, Oriana River Lodge. I guided in Alaska in 2003, and I was there for 16 weeks with Knacknak Anglers, and amazing experience. Matt Bynum, Don Meehan, so many great people on that trip. After guiding there for a full year, I've been back to Alaska 10 different times in different locations from the Arctic Circle, chasing char to inland to large salmon, the Kvichak River, Anchorage, spending time with friends. Well, long story short, doing this four day trip with Bill, landing on remote land with nobody around us and camping and literally smack dab in the middle of bear country where we set up our tent in the dark and we took it down in the dark to go and advance to the water. I came back and I felt a little bit taller, a little bit stronger and a little bit more like a man. And that's saying something because Big Bill Betts is like 6'6", 245, and running in the dark by headlamp and seeing grizzly bears spook into the alders. It was an amazing but very humbling experience and a lot of excitement and fun. But it was crazy because at the end of the day, we ended up catching fish, which is unheard of in many times in Alaska, in clear blue, sunny skies, beautiful bluebird day, calm, and you usually don't get that in Alaska. A lot of it's, you know, some rain, some wind and a lot of cloud cover settles in. Well, we ended up catching fish on streamers in clear, sunny conditions, low, clear water, by stalking and hunting undercut banks. And I'll leave the rest for the angler's imagination and the pages and reading Bill's insight. But man, that was an amazing trip. But that's an experience and kind of an example of what would happen as the book evolved over three years and spending time with great people on the water.

**Marvin Cash (40:16):**
And as you were working on it over the three-year period, what was the greatest challenge that you faced kind of bringing the project home?

**Landon Mayer (40:24):**
It was organizing the project. Keeping all of the information in hand, in front of myself, making sure I obtained that information from the angler, organizing what should go where. And when I say organizing, it's not gathering the information. It's with all these other great minds constantly working. There was a lot of adjustments to text. So I would set something aside, put the information down, that person would end up thinking about what they gave me. A week later, something new would come in. And rightfully so. You want this to evolve. You want the text and the process to grow. So with all that in mind and everything growing on a regular basis, it eventually came together. And that's when the chapter was complete. Give it back to the individual, have them read it, and then sign off on it. But that was the biggest challenge is just organizing everything, keeping the best words for them and myself and my wife, Michelle, in place where this whole book came together. And most importantly, it's, you know, when people ask, how do you do books? I personally think it's your support system at home. And my lovely wife, Michelle, and my family are so supportive in what I do. But also what others don't realize is my wife's an amazing angler and she is every bit a part of these books. I mean, while we're, while I'm cranking on the keys, she's cranking on the keys or we're working on photos together and all this comes, you know, the process of just this building, it's a major identity. So that really is an unbelievable experience and just keeping it organized is definitely the task at hand.

**Marvin Cash (42:01):**
Yeah. And it's so, it's so neat that you can share that with your family that way. And that's something that you'll always have, right? Even long after your guiding days are over.

**Landon Mayer (42:10):**
Right, right. And that's exactly it. I mean, it's not, this is what I tell people when they ask me, and this is no judgment on anybody else. It's just judgment on my life. But fly fishing, it for sure is a lifestyle. For my family, myself, Michelle, our kids, it has really grown to the point where it's not a lifestyle. It's now our way of life. And that's why we always try to teach how important it is to protect the resource. And I just the other day had a conversation with our youngest son, River, and I said, you understand why cleanups and all these very important events that we take place in or we place and put on for others, why it's so important for our livelihood. And they kind of look at you because it's a big picture and a big topic. But I just explained to it, if we didn't have the fish, if we didn't have the water, if we didn't have the resource, we literally would not be able to live where we live, do what we do and make a living at it. And I think when you say it in that way, it really does spark such a large idea and thought, especially for our youth. So it's very important. And it has really evolved to where it is a way of life. And it's very important to protect the resource. So that's a very humbling experience as well.

**Marvin Cash (43:31):**
Yeah, that's really cool. And one thing I've kind of thought about as I was preparing for this interview is, you know, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when you were fishing with all 50 of these guides and shop owners and accomplished anglers. I mean, what's that like? Because I'm sitting here and I'm like, well, what is it like when two Jedi masters come and there's like this instant level of simpatico and passion about fishing? That's got to be, you know, it's just different than other conversations in fishing. It's not better. It's just different. What is that like?

**Landon Mayer (44:02):**
It's incredible. And it's a, you know, that's a wonderful topic and question as well, because what I ended up doing, because I asked myself that I said, well, how should this day go? Or how should this adventure go? If I'm spending time with people on the water, what is the best way to maximize the potential of getting information for the text or the book or just obtaining information to where I could become a better angler or if there's something I thought could work could also give my two cents or thought and most of the time I ended up just stepping back Marvin it was incredible and you just recently spent time with George Daniel in the water and I had a chance to spend time with George as well on Fishing Creek and for the day what I've learned is I show up. We have a great time on the water, but I like those moments throughout the day where I just step back and watch that individual fish and then just ask questions. Very similar to if I book a guide trip with somebody else, approach it that way. Well, what are you doing? Why do you do this? Or if you don't mind, can I watch you catch that fish or can I watch you make the presentation? And by doing that, the information I learned and gathered was very, very, I mean, it was inspiring, but incredible at the same time. That's really where I think myself maturing as an angler and realizing the benefit, because this book isn't about myself. This book is about what we like to teach on our waters, but it's about others. It's about a community of anglers. And that's really the approach I took. It was just the community thought and going into every day on the water. And by doing that, when there's no egos, no pressure, no expectations, Marvin, it was incredible how much information just blossomed right there in the day on the water, whether it be by foot or by boat. It was unbelievable.

**Marvin Cash (45:56):**
Yeah, no, that, it just sounds incredible. I mean, like I said, it would have been great to have been a fly on the wall. And, and, you know, and not only, you know, did you get a book out for the holiday and the show season, you also came back to video and released mastering the short game in January. What brought you, what brought you, I know you've done short length video because so many people have, but what brought you back to full length video after, I think it was probably almost 10 years since you made your last DVD.

**Landon Mayer (46:26):**
Right. No, and I appreciate you bringing that up because the first videos I made were with my mentor and good friend, John Barr, and we made Landing the Trout of Your Life and then also Weapons of Bass Production. And those two projects, 2007, 2008, were incredible. I've learned so much from John. He's such an amazing individual, humble angler, humble person. And afterwards, for 10 years, when things were building and I would do presentations or I would do trips with anglers on the water and do text and all these different great processes and projects were coming out, I quickly realized how important video was. And the reason I wanted to do a video is because I eventually learned, and this was through the help of my children, is that when we're sitting at the house as a family, I realized at one point, and I think it was about four years ago, that boom, a lot of our youth is learning electronically. They're learning online. They're learning from video. And if you want to touch anglers and you really want to make, you know, add truth to the pudding and what you're trying to teach and you're trying to use an example, video is one of the best ways to do that because you can always watch it, rewind or use it as a reference and reflect back. So with all of these individuals, not just youth, but a lot of individuals now learning online, it just hit me and it felt like the right time. Like we should do another project. And the great thing about a video project like Mastering the Short Game that I did recently with Headwater Media Group is that with Jay Nichols, myself, we in the course of three years, we traveled to four different locations, two continents. So we did four states, two continents. We did Colorado, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and then we did some also in Wyoming. And then we traveled over to Patagonia, Argentina, and we filmed South America for some of the wild trout. And when we put all this together, it is a lot of my work so far in my fly fishing career, my fly fishing life in the video to where now if somebody wanted to learn. And let's say we did a guide trip or they learned by reading the article or text. It's in an interactive menu for the physical Blu-ray where you can go through each chapter, Marvin, click on tension drifting with nymphs and watch that five minute video clip. But long story short, that all started with me realizing how important and how powerful video is. And it's not the video where I don't believe it's you're going to make everything back by making a video project, you know, within the first year. This the video will have legs. It's a lot of my life teaching so far. And and it really is, you know, the opportunity to do that with Jay was beyond humbling and awesome. And he, none of the videos that you see are ever, any one of those are completed to become a project without the dedication and hard work of the individual behind the lens. And that is so much the case with Jay and myself. I mean, to capture fish eating streamers 10 feet from where you're standing and you can sight fish all of this by being a viewer was incredibly difficult.

**Marvin Cash (49:51):**
That's awesome. And can you share with my listeners kind of the fundamental premise of mastering the short game and who you made it for?

**Landon Mayer (49:59):**
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So the video was made for all anglers of all skill levels. And the premise for it is when you show up to the river, it's, in my opinion, it's not easy, but it's more comfortable to teach somebody how to cast distance and how to fish at distance than it is short. And my example of that is, let's say you have a fish holding in a run, and you have 10 to 15 feet of fly line out of the rod tip. When you make a cast, the fly line loads and flexes the graphite in the rod and then delivers the flies to the trout. Well, let's say it's a different situation, the next bend up or down the river, and all of a sudden you have a fish three feet off the bank, and you have to get in a kneeling position. All your fly lines pulled in past the tip of the rod and then you have to make a presentation not by loading the rod from the weight of the fly line, but loading the rod by the movement and manipulation of moving your body. And when I teach this to anglers on the water, it does not matter if you have 40 years of experience or four minutes of experience. It is almost like a new way of fly fishing in its own right for that specific time on the water. And that's why we made the project is to talk about, in addition to the long game, how do you feed fish with minimal distance that you can visibly see in front of you without spooking them and then allowing yourself to learn from the best strike indicator, which is the trout. And that's really why we did the project and made the project for all the viewers. It was incredible.

**Marvin Cash (51:40):**
Very cool. And I know this was another multi-year project. I think it took, what, three years to produce?

**Landon Mayer (51:46):**
Yeah, three years, three years in the making. It was going to be a little shorter but we decided to expand on where we fished and that's where you know the South Holston River in Tennessee with Blane, South America with Andes Drifters and Kevin Landon, Gustavo, Gonzalo, amazing individuals. If you ever go to South America those guys are incredible. And then also in you know Colorado a lot of my home waters and it just all made sense to push and go further going up to Pennsylvania, spending time with George, fishing some of the spring creek. So yeah, it really was a huge advantage being able to travel and that's why we expanded it to three years.

And how was the, how did that

**Marvin Cash (52:28):**
production process kind of compare to your book where, you know, it was a lot of coordination. Was it a similar challenge in the production process or was there something completely different?

**Landon Mayer (52:39):**
Yeah, it's incredible. It's so much more in depth and so much more detail when you make a video. The hours are not the example because numerous hours go into a book behind the scene or behind the pages and numerous hours go into a video behind the scenes. But the incredible thing about videos, it's all based on it starts with the work on the lens. And then really the heart of the project is the editing. The editing is so much more advanced than what you may think. I think we take it for granted at times because we look at the screen, we edit our own videos with the magic of an app or software. But what we don't see is that when you're making a video, it's color contrast. So it's color editing. It's audio. It's video. All of these take place. And when watching these videos come together, there's numerous times where not only are you going through hours and hours of footage. So I myself probably spent 500, 600 hours behind the scenes looking at video footage, trying to time lapse and mark the time of what should work where or setting up a microphone in front of a tripod and doing voiceover. And there was so much more in-depth in communication between the cinematography side, the editing side and the angler side, all of that coming together. It was unreal. I mean, just, yeah, breathing that whole experience, living that whole experience was amazing.

**Marvin Cash (54:15):**
Yeah, and I imagine you guys weren't physically together while you were doing all that editing work. So you were pushing around a lot of tech. I wish we were. Yeah. I mean, you probably really wore out the drop box, right?

**Landon Mayer (54:29):**
Oh man, big time, big time.

**Marvin Cash (54:32):**
So, you know, you're super busy, right? I know you guide, you know, 200 plus days a year. You know, I was just reading your short game article on Fly Fisherman this afternoon. You're writing books. I know kind of in the off season in the Northern hemisphere, you're hosting trips. And I think literally, I think I've seen you in almost every single fly fishing show I've been to in the last two years. And you're married and you have four kids. What's your secret to keeping it all straight and juggling all those commitments?

**Landon Mayer (55:02):**
My lovely wife, Michelle, in all honesty. The secret is making sure that, number one, you have the acceptance from home. I really do think that's important. And because fly fishing is our way of life, my wife and our children accept what it takes to have this life, to have this career and accept what the importance of giving back is. I think that's first and foremost. And then setting up commitments and just giving yourself to the time where it takes travel, it takes place at the show, like you said, or a guide trip. What I ask myself is how much time do I have in the course of a day and how much time do I have in the week or the month? And I just make sure that there's enough time to where if I feel like I can give it 100 percent, then I'm in. If I feel it's an important area, topic or show that I need to be involved in, 100 percent I'm in. And I think a good example of that is what Fremsky and, you know, what Chuck Fremsky started now, Ben is continuing on a whole new different platform is the fly fishing shows. And just seeing the growth of the fly fishing show where people are attending classes, they know that they can learn from so much more than just seeing it online in the video or purchasing the video, spending time with the individual in the classroom at a presentation. And I really do think that's important. But just like with the book and the videos, Marvin, it's all about organizing the calendar, staying focused and just making sure that you're not giving yourself too much of a workload. And if it is a busy workload, just being honest to yourself, are you going to be able to give 100%? And if you are and you're enthusiastic and you enjoy it, then let's go in. Let's make this even more successful than it could be.

**Marvin Cash (56:59):**
Very cool. So you start 2019 with a new book and a new DVD. What does the rest of the year hold for you? Are you working on some new projects or kind of noodling on some things?

**Landon Mayer (57:10):**
Yeah, well, no, thanks for asking. So I actually do have something exciting coming out, and this will be the first time I've actually veiled or spoken about it after we worked on it for the last year. But I would say one of my favorite projects is a book to work on and not to pick from any one of these projects because they're all in their own right, in their own unique way, very special and dear to myself. And I've enjoyed every one of them. But sight fishing is what I, that's my thing. That's what I love to do. I do love large trout. I love light equipment, small flies. But I love the art of being a trout hunter and sight fishing. And my first book came out in 2009 with Stackpole. And Jay Nichols and myself worked on that with Judith at Stackpole at the time. And it really is the nuts and bolts. And there's so much detail in that book. Well, I'm excited to announce that the second edition of that book is coming out in August with a new forward by Ed Engle. We added 7,500 more words, I believe 57 new photographs. And I'm excited about that because I think with so much enthusiasm with younger anglers and families in the sport now that a lot of individuals realize how important sight fishing is. And I'm excited for this new project to be out and for people to really use it as a resource to go beyond reading water, which is also beautiful and the best way to really hone your skills and your craft. Being able to sight fish dry, nymphs and streamers. And like I said, that's going to be coming out in August. So we just wrapped that up and had the final copy at its take point last week.

**Marvin Cash (58:54):**
Oh, that's awesome. I know you have to be relieved, right?

**Landon Mayer (58:58):**
Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, and what I was really proud of this project is because I was able to have Ed Engle do the forward and Ed Engle was one of my mentors in fly fishing and literally lives, you know, 40, not even that, 30 minutes down the road in Manitou Springs. And Ed Engle has always been somebody I looked up to. I think he's one of our best writers in the sport of fly fishing. He has a great personality from the beginning guiding. I've had a chance to work with that. And it was a true honor for him to, you know, be willing to write the forward and go do some trips and spend time on the water together and build our friendship. So that's really exciting and very important for me to be able to include in this wonderful project.

**Marvin Cash (59:41):**
Well, that's awesome, and that's a really great segue into where can people find your books and DVDs. I assume you've got a store on your website, and you probably have your stuff on Amazon, right?

**Landon Mayer (59:53):**
Yeah, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Lyons Stackpole Books, through my website. And there's been a lot of great people, David Martin, Chris Hansen. So many people have really helped out with the new website and the way it works. So we have a store on the website, and you can click on any one of the projects to find out some great information about them. We have some great insight to each one of the books, and you can review through some of the pages. And that's one of the ways to purchase it. And also through any one of the local shops. I'm very big into supporting shops locally and also throughout the U.S. And that's one of the reasons I'm independent as an outfitter and as an angler is that I can show support and love to everybody else. So yeah, that's through the website, LandonMayerFlyFishing.com and then also online and Amazon and Barnes and Noble as well.

**Marvin Cash (01:00:45):**
Awesome. Yeah. And I'll drop links to all of your stuff in the show notes for this episode too.

**Landon Mayer (01:00:51):**
Oh, cool. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

**Marvin Cash (01:00:52):**
Oh, not a problem. And why don't you let folks know where they can find you on the internet and your website address and email and all that kind of good stuff.

**Landon Mayer (01:01:02):**
Yeah, so if you go to the website LandonMayerFlyFishing.com there's information about the guided trips we offer. The nice thing about that is it's very interactive and a lot of the maps come from the book that we published Colorado's Best Fly Fishing. There's also information about what the trip offers and of course rates and then information just beyond that. If you have any questions or comments you can reach us through the contact page and all of that just takes place right through the website. And we also just this year added new information by way of podcasts, of course, like we're doing now. And I really appreciate you having me on Marvin. And also we did river flows and other up-to-date information, including weather. So you can really go through. And what I was trying to do with the website is set up the pages to where instead of just thinking about booking the trip, it's really nice if you can go into, let's say you want to look at one specific section of the South Platte River or stillwater. You can read some text. You can see it on a map. You can see images and photographs. And then in addition to that, if you are curious and wondering about what fly should I bring or what should we fish, I also have the signature fly page, which is awesome because it shows video, photos and a lot of text. And all that's based on myself researching online. And I always enjoy going on websites or pages where you could see the landscape and then learn from some of the text as well.

**Marvin Cash (01:02:30):**
Yeah, it's super helpful, too, because I've been to your site and it's a great resource if you're fishing in your watershed. I mean, it's lodging, you know, flows, everything, which I think is great. And I imagine, you know, as you're getting busier that you probably prefer for people to email you and stuff, call you because it's just easier for you to catch up with folks. Is that true or are you a cell phone guy?

**Landon Mayer (01:02:54):**
No, no, it could be a little bit of both. I mean, I think email is great. The cell phone part of it is also great. The challenge we have, and I know others have this on the water as well, is when you're guiding or you're out in the environment or in the element, you don't get the same coverage. So that's why cell phones can be a challenge. But emails are great, number one. Leaving messages are fine through the phone number on the website. Texting is also fine through that number. But the email is nice because then at the end of the day, we can check emails, get back and then keep that communication and contact going.

**Marvin Cash (01:03:29):**
Well, that's awesome. Well, Landon, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me tonight. It's been great, and I've really enjoyed it, and I hope you have.

**Landon Mayer (01:03:38):**
No, I've enjoyed every minute of it. And I wanted to tell you, I really, you know, especially with the different podcasts and opportunity to, you know, listen and reach out and know people for a lot of what they do, but even more of who they are. I really appreciate the work you've done with all the work and The Articulate Fly. And I wanted you to know that I think moving forward, you know, this is a really big influence in our industry. And I, you know, just really appreciate you having me on, Marvin.

**Marvin Cash (01:04:06):**
Oh, well, I really appreciate those kind words. I mean, this has been a passion project of mine that I've wanted to do for a long time. And I, you know, about a year ago, made some changes in my professional life to let me do that. So I appreciate you sharing that. I sure do enjoy it. Well, listen, folks, I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as we've enjoyed putting it together for you. Again, if you liked it, I'd love for you to give us a review in iTunes and subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice. Landon, thanks again. I really appreciate it. Tight lines, everybody. Thanks a lot.