S1, Ep 34: An Evening with A.D. Maddox

Marvin Cash (00:04): Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash. I'm the host of The Articulate Fly and tonight we're joined by A.D. Maddox. How's it going, A.D.?

Really good. Well, that's great. Well, before we get rolling tonight, folks, if you enjoy the podcast, if you would do me a favor and share it with a friend, even better, if you'd subscribe in the podcast of your choice and give us a review, I'd really appreciate it. We're in the process of doing another cycle of advertising. That would really help me out a ton.

And before we get going, give a shout out to tonight's sponsor, the First Fly Shop in Bryson City, North Carolina, the Tuckasegee Fly Shop. They have two locations, one in Bryson City and one in Silva. And you owe it to yourself to drop by either of the shops and visit with Dale and Bobby, visit with the shop dogs and meet the rest of the crew.

Well, A.D., I always ask all of my guests, my first question is always, to share their earliest fishing memory.

A.D. Maddox (01:00): Oh god, that's so fun. My bologna sandwich on a hook by a tree in the country with my brother. How old were you?

Marvin Cash (01:17): God I think I was five. Yeah five. Yeah, if you're in the south it was probably a cane pole.

A.D. Maddox (01:23): Right when it was, you know, they're little sunfish and little brims. Yeah we always well I grew up fishing with crickets and worms bait fishing and smallmouth bass fishing. And my grandfather had a lodge with a lake. And then my other grandparents had a couple of lakes on their property. So we fished and swam and fished.

Marvin Cash (02:06): Well, that's great. And I know you're a Southerner. You're from Nashville and you are a war eagle. And I'm always curious about, and I'm a Southerner too, so I'm always curious, and I love the Northern Rockies, so I'm kind of curious about what pulled you out to that part of the world.

A.D. Maddox (02:22): Well, my sister was out in Denver going to school at Regis College, and I really liked her. And I wanted, well, we had always gone to the mountains in the wintertime to go skiing. That was our family vacation. And I had an aunt that lived outside of Colorado, I mean, outside of Denver. Sedalia is where she lived.

And so I really like the mountains and the skiing and the crisp air. And that's why. Kind of the pull of getting out of usual places. I don't like to be comfortable too much.

Marvin Cash (03:07): Got it. And I know you lived out and you lived in Jackson for a while and you came back east. And I guess until your most recent move, you were living in Nashville and spending your summers in Montana. And then I guess late last fall, you kind of uprooted and moved to Livingston. What was the genesis of that move?

A.D. Maddox (03:25): Aligning my artwork with my clients. This is pretty much, I think, the fly fishing capital of the world. Jackson was, Jackson's super expensive and it's, pardon me for saying my opinion, but God, there's just so many people there in the summertime. I just don't want to deal with it.

So I didn't want to go back there, but I needed to be near a flying airport. One that was like, you know, flights all the time. Bozeman's expanding, step over the hill. I looked at a map and went any, many, miney, mo and looked at Livingston. And, you know, this, the first building that I saw that I wanted was the one I got.

Marvin Cash (04:20): Well, that's great. And I guess it's kind of on the main drag in Livingston, isn't it?

A.D. Maddox (04:25): It's one block off main street.

Marvin Cash (04:27): Gotcha. And so for people that are familiar with Livingston, maybe help them maybe orient like in relation to Dan Bailey's.

A.D. Maddox (04:37): It's probably like two blocks away, two or three blocks from Dan Bailey's. It's a block off of Main Street. Dan Bailey's is down from the Murray, I believe. So, yeah, it's like a couple blocks.

Marvin Cash (04:53): Well, that's awesome. And so you said you were moving to get close to your clients, but what's the artist community like in Livingston?

A.D. Maddox (05:03): I don't really know too much. I mean, I've gone to the Livingston Gallery Association meetings, just a couple of them, because the art walks start on June 28th when I'm having my opening. I haven't met, but a few. I've literally landed here and I've been breathing paint fumes ever since I got here.

I was gone all winter. I was in the Caribbean and got back here at the very end of March and I haven't seen the light of day. I'm literally, eat, sleep, and breathing paint. That's it. So the social, socializing is going to have to occur after, you know, my opening and after because right now I'm just, I've got tunnel vision severely.

Marvin Cash (06:05): No, I understand completely. And I understand that you're from an artistic family and you were around art all your life, but when did you decide that you wanted to make it your career?

A.D. Maddox (06:21): Well it was kind of a progression getting into it and working other jobs but I made the switch when I was 28 when I went into the main gallery in Jackson Hole and the first piece this has been written up so many times but my first piece sold in 20 minutes out of this gallery and the owner was front me money so I could paint and I quit my job at the hospital because I was moonlighting my art and I went for it and that was that and I haven't stopped painting since.

I mean I've had some breaks here and there when I've had other stuff to do in life, but it's been my job for what, 22 years now. I'm 50. Yeah, no, I'm getting close to that this fall. My 50th birthday is in September.

Marvin Cash (07:17): And it seems to keep going by faster and faster. And I know you're largely self-taught and I was curious about, you know, obviously you have a family background, but what gave you the self-confidence that you could accomplish what you wanted to on your own without formal art education?

A.D. Maddox (07:44): I think that the answer to that question is just I'm severely self-determined. And I like to do things my way. And I just, you know, my base of who I am is, well, I've always been a really good artist. Now it's come up, you know, from the very beginning. I was still really good. Even, I mean, there were pieces that I did when I was six and 13. Incredible pieces. I think in fifth grade I won an art show.

So I never wanted to be taught because I knew what I was doing enough to finish pieces. And I didn't study it in college. I just, I guess you could say a prodigy. I'm definitely in the ranks of prodigy. Just, you know, I've just always wanted to find my own way because I don't really think that there's a part of art, the technical side that, yes, it can be taught. But there's another side of it that if it's very dominant, you can create your own tech to figure out your way.

I've done that for many years. I've had my own tech. And whenever I want to learn something, I go to the library. I'll do some research on Google and find out exactly what it is that I want to learn. And then I go get a book. And I've done that quite a few times, I mean a handful of times. And I worked with Greg McCurron in Jackson Hole. He mentored me and John Banovich has helped me a few times.

But, you know, art's not created by committees. It's a one-man show. And you've got to love the process of doing the art, making the art, the patience. I mean, this brown trout that I'm working on right now has given me a flipping heart attack. You know, I can't screw up. The oil you know I work darts to light now it hasn't always been that way but I've learned I'm picking up more technique of realism and learning what the masters do the old masters of yore you know they the all the prema and painting in one shot.

That's what I've been doing. I've changed a lot of things because I want to increase the quality of the oil painting because I can see further now than what I could see four years ago. I can see a lot further now. So that's what I've been up to. And that's why I'm slamming out these paintings right and left because I'm painting them in one shot.

Marvin Cash (11:08): Yeah, interesting you talked about being self-determined. Were you sort of hatched that way or was that something that your family or teachers or coaches cultivated in you as you were growing up?

A.D. Maddox (11:19): Hatched. I was born that way. Yeah I'd be the first to pick a fight. I'm you know I've definitely been an aggressive little kid with three of their siblings. And, you know, I never wanted anybody showing me anything. I'd just get out of my way.

Marvin Cash (11:41): Got it.

A.D. Maddox (11:41): So, you know, yeah, I just did sports where it was just me, you know, gymnastics and tennis, and I could go at whatever I wanted on my own. But, yeah, just really self-determined.

Marvin Cash (11:55): Very cool. And could you elaborate a little bit more? Like, I know that you apprenticed in Atlanta about some of your mentors and kind of how they influenced your style.

A.D. Maddox (12:05): Yeah, that was Kami. Hell, I don't even know what my style was when I was working with Kami. You know, he taught me a lot about art. I was painting an architectural line of his, and I was an apprentice. And he taught me about the production end of painting really fast and finishing pieces, the business side of art, and mainly just the dedication of going to work every day. Even if you're exhausted and painting all day long, getting some painting time on my feet in the long hours.

He taught me about color. And I think it was really when I was working with Commie that I knew that I wanted to do it for a living. But I was always having to do other jobs, like I was a cocktail waitress at the Mangy Moose. Isn't that crazy?

Marvin Cash (13:12): That is crazy.

A.D. Maddox (13:13): Cocktail football is what I called it. Yeah, and then I was working, you know, I was also working in the accounting department of Jackson Hole Ski Resort, and then I would go home and do my artwork. And there were all these guys coming in with all this money, and they wanted all this art. So I was painting and doing accounting and throwing beers around and making a lot of money. It was a really fun time because I was in, you know, solid production. But, yeah, Commie was a big one.

Marvin Cash (13:49): Yeah. Any others?

A.D. Maddox (13:57): Let's see. After Commie, no. No.

Marvin Cash (14:05): Okay. And if we kind of come forward to today, and I know you talked about how you've basically just been grinding out paintings since you moved to Livingston. But do you have sort of a group, a small group of artists like a Derek Young or people like that, that you kind of kick around ideas and kind of talk about stuff with, or are you just sort of siloed and kind of working on your stuff and figuring stuff out on your own?

A.D. Maddox (14:33): No, there's no group. It's funny. The difference between a working artist and artists that actually paints is an artist that paints. And then there's people that talk about art they're two different people you either you're painting painters paint they don't talk about painting at least I don't I mean when when when I'm not painting the last thing in the world I want to talk about is painting or art it's something that I do it's not something that I spectate got it there's a real difference in that.

You can be a spectator in life and look like critics. You know, most critics are, a critic of art is a failed artist. That's why they pick apart people's paintings. So, you know, you have people that look at stuff and then you have people that do it. And the ones that are doing it, I mean, I'm sure Derek DeYoung is super busy. And when he's not painting, I'm sure he wants to go fish and do fun things with his wife. As, you know, a lot of other artists, I'm sure they want to go play. Yeah, that's what I have to say about that.

Marvin Cash (15:59): There you go. And I know that your favorite medium is oil on Belgian linen. How did you kind of arrive at that preference?

A.D. Maddox (16:09): Well, this kind of changed a little bit. I'm back on canvas now.

Marvin Cash (16:13): Okay.

A.D. Maddox (16:13): It's just a lot easier. I was having problems with the glue downs and I didn't want to buy $400 canvases. So the company that was doing them kind of disappeared. And then I was having to get them from Florida and literally it's 400 bucks a canvas. So I just kind of scratched that and went back to the stretched canvas. What was your question, the rest of that question?

Marvin Cash (16:44): Oh, sure. So I was just trying to understand how you arrived at your preferred medium.

A.D. Maddox (16:51): Yeah, I mean, it's been, you know, obviously just a little bit of a journey. What my main goal to do with the art is to spend the least amount of time that I can to finish a piece without taking shortcuts on the quality. Okay. So there really has to be an A to B going on. And the canvas, does it really matter? You know, it depends on if you're painting with thicker oil. Thicker oil is a lot more fun to paint on Belgian linen that's been glued down.

And if you loosen up the oil a little bit where it's a little bit more runny, well, you can paint on pretty much anything. You know a softer canvas is a lot easier so it's the tooth of the canvas you know right now I'm painting just on primed you know cotton and it seems to be doing all right but then I have got some canvases that have got teeth on it you know the canvas has got a pretty good tooth on it.

So, I'm just kind of figuring it out as I go. But you know, then again, the goal is just to get the piece done. I want things off the easel. Nothing can sit very long. I just got to get it done. I'm only interested in getting things done. Got it. Yeah. Got it. Done.

Marvin Cash (18:43): Done.

A.D. Maddox (18:44): Yeah.

Marvin Cash (18:45): And so how would you, you know, so you've been painting kind of professionally for a little over 20 years. How would you describe your style and how has it evolved over the years?

A.D. Maddox (19:00): Well, I think it was a much more graphic type art in the very beginning, say in the, you know, 80s, early 90s. Even through the 90s to 97, 98, I started loosening up the brush strokes a bit. Style-wise, I mean, I don't know what you'd call it. You know, I'm not that... I'm definitely getting more into realism, photorealism, I'm trying to pull off these incredible effects to make it look like, you know, you took a picture.

And I've been doing that all along to a certain extent. Like the trout might be photorealism, but then the background is going to be a bit abstract. It depends on the photo that I'm working from. And I just let each piece kind of go and do what it needs to go and do to get that signature on there. Like the piece I'm working on right now is definitely photorealism. It's like I'm playing a game of operation every time I have that paintbrush. As I'm closing it down, you know, to the final brushstrokes.

You know, it's real. I got to, you know, breathe in and hold my breath into a brush stroke. And then, you know, it's definitely giving me a heart attack, those pieces right now, because it's getting into the, you know, the lines got to be just perfect. So, yeah, photorealism, I'd say.

Marvin Cash (20:54): Fantastic. And, you know, you're known for your approach to layering as well as your focus on a single subject. How did that weave itself into your style over time?

A.D. Maddox (21:08): Well, the layering originally started just because the oil was drying. And so I would paint till I got this base and it would dry. And then I would do a lot of glazing to make it more realistic and do the tinting around the sides of the fish or have the effect of the water. I was doing a lot of glazing, which is incredibly time consuming.

And obviously right now I'm not doing any layering at all. I'm painting all of Prama, which is painting this in one shot. There's a light area of a painting then I'm going to go ahead and paint it instead of doing all this glazing work that's just where I'm at right now you know the jury's out on my new stuff and really the test of it is is this gonna sell well you know I just sold one off the easel last week. So, you know, I just signed it and I sold it.

So we'll see how this new technique is received, but I can't stay the same. I have to continue to get better, which means getting uncomfortable, which means doing, trying new things, you know, new brushes, new oil consistency, new canvases, new techniques. That's just where I'm at right now because I've been doing the style for so long and I just got bored. That's why my production was really low. I got bored. So I needed to buy a gallery and get my game going. You know, give myself some really big problems basically is what I did.

Marvin Cash (22:59): Yeah. No, I can completely understand that because in my world I get bored pretty quickly too. So I have to keep moving from thing to thing.

A.D. Maddox (23:05): Yeah. I was, you know, living in downtown Nashville and high rise, my dad and brother owned in the penthouse with a studio in the basement. I was completely set up and I saw myself being there until I was in my 80s. And I just said, you know, get out of here. Get moving as fast as you can because it's way too much comfort, which doesn't bring about necessity levels for massive production. You need a necessity level, right?

Marvin Cash (23:38): Yeah, no, it's interesting.

A.D. Maddox (23:39): Something gets you moving.

Marvin Cash (23:40): Yeah, I always say art never happens in suburbia, right? At least that's what I think.

A.D. Maddox (23:48): Yeah, and fat bank accounts don't help either. I mean, sometimes you have to go spend a little bit of money to really start, you know, feeling the itch. Well, that's kind of what happened anyway. So it was a good change, you know. I don't think there's anybody that's ever made it that hadn't stuck their neck out there.

Marvin Cash (24:08): Yeah. No, I think, you know, as I kind of look across various professions and is that, you know, if you're not passionate, you won't be successful. Right. So whether you're Steve Jobs or whoever you are, that seems to be the kind of the common denominator for kind of finding real excellence. Right.

A.D. Maddox (24:28): Obsessed. It even goes to the word obsessed. Like it's, yeah, an obsession. I would definitely say I'm in the category of obsessed.

Marvin Cash (24:39): It's not a bad thing. And you've said that you're an artist that fly fishes. So when did you come to fly fishing?

A.D. Maddox (24:49): Well, I was painting the trout before I had learned how to fly fish. That was in 2000. I think I started painting trout in 99. And I was painting from photos. And the pieces were selling, so I kept painting this, you know, trout on furniture, carbon painting furniture. And my dad had this house. We've got a vacation home down here in Paradise Valley.

And, you know, he said, why don't you come up and we'll go fly fishing? And I just got really excited about it because I wanted to see what these fish look like. I wanted to take pictures. This was back in the day before digital cameras, you know, were really big. And so I learned, I believe it was in 2000 was when I learned how to fly fish. And it was so frustrating. Oh, my God, that line was everywhere. And God, I mean, it was really frustrating.

But I picked it up rather quickly. And I always went out with guides. I'd trade them out for some art. And I was into it when I was in Jackson Hole but then when I moved to Nashville it flipped away because it was a real production to go fly fishing real production and that's one of the beautiful things about moving back out here I can go fishing now but I needed to go home to Nashville for a while because I wanted to rebond with the family you know my parents are getting older and seeing as that they're not dying I said hey guys you know, I got to split.

So, so I split, but they also, you know, dad comes out here in the summer. He's right down the street. It's going to be at my opening. The family's flying out. So, I'll get to see them living here. Well, that's, that's awesome. And so I, you say you,

Marvin Cash (26:52): You learned with guides, but do any kind of fishing mentors stick out in your memory on the fly fishing side?

A.D. Maddox (27:00): You know, Bob Chula, Tom Montgomery, these guys from Jackson Hole. I have to think. It's hard to think. I've just been painting 10 hours from you see. And then when I went to New Zealand, I went there for five weeks and fished with guides. One of them was Mark Buckingham I fished with him I think he's I forget the name of his business he's on the south island out of Wanaka and I fished with him for three weeks and learned a lot I just picked it up from from guides mainly they taught me how to fish and I dated some fly fishermen that's always great they teach you how to fish and you're dating them so it's perfect yeah I'm for some reason my brain's not working to think who's the fly fishing bob chula was was pretty good yeah well we'll he's a pretty good teacher yeah so we'll stick with him and I think based on our conversation I know the answer to the next question which is do you prefer fly fishing in the east or in the west.

Marvin Cash (28:22): West west west is best yeah it's it's interesting yeah so I just got back from fishing in the smokies and you know I fish out west too and I kind of love them both for different things but I always tell people my soul lives in Montana.

A.D. Maddox (28:53): Oh, Jim Carconin.

Marvin Cash (28:56): Got it.

A.D. Maddox (28:56): I was with Jim in Sun Valley. He took me out to go get my first trout. Yeah, sorry. It was delayed there. I had a bit of a calm lag. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the terrestrials out here, you can put on a big fly, big hopper, and these guys come up. I think the fishing I did outside of Nashville was a bit more way technical tiny tiny tiny little little flies and they had to have droppers and yeah sounds like that might

Marvin Cash (29:37): Have been the South Holston.

A.D. Maddox (29:39): Yeah they were I was on the Caney Fork I fished on that's the only place I fished and then I'd come out here and fish yeah that was a it's kind of different when you're in a city because you're in a city doesn't really facilitate you know doing this massive production to go fly fishing.

Marvin Cash (30:02): You know no it's a it's a hassle to leave charlotte to go fish for sure and i guess do I understand correctly that you one of the real drivers for you to get into fly fishing was the gallery owner suggested that you should paint trout and then you were kind of running out of photography to to paint more trout so you're like I got to get out there and fish to get more ideas about how to paint trout.

A.D. Maddox (30:25): Yeah I wanted to see what they look like I wanted to take my own photos and then that opened up photography and that's what got me going to New Zealand was to go capture all those big fish. So, yeah, that kind of kicked it off. Every time I go fishing, I take my camera and, and I had a good one, at the time, you know, cannon and, and I'd shoot them and I'd paint for my pictures. And then of course I've had a lot of people give me pictures to paint from. So that's been really nice.

So if somebody gives me a photo to paint from and they give me permission then I paint it and then it goes to print and I send them the first print as a gift. Number one in 90.

Marvin Cash (31:23): Oh, that's cool.

A.D. Maddox (31:24): That's what I do. Yeah, it's kind of a exchange to say thank you. But I can shoot out here, you know?

Marvin Cash (31:39): Absolutely. And so, you know, it's interesting since you started painting trout before you started fly fishing, you know, how has, can you kind of talk a little bit about kind of how the thread of an evolution of your life as a fly fisherman has kind of interwoven itself with your life as an artist?

A.D. Maddox (31:59): Well, I have to go out and get material to paint from. And, you know, I did a lot of shooting up in New York. I did a trout hatchery and would feed them and get the rise. That's how I did that. And I would substitute the shots with the fly instead of, you know, the little pellets. That's how I did that. But I had to capture them. I've shot twice at hatchery to get them, you know, get them on the rise.

But yeah, pretty much, you know, after I get this production run done, I've got Mustang horses that I'm doing, just kind of branching out a little bit. But I can't abandon trout because that's what I do. And it's my successful action. So I'm going to have to go out and get more shots of trout. But let's see, a couple of summers ago, I went out with Brian Wimmer from Sundance Fly Fishing and Ryan Kelly. And he's a guide on the Green River.

And, you know, figured out a way to really get these guys in the water the way I want to playing around. You know, gosh, Ryan Kelly knows spots. He takes tons of photos of these guys on the rise, which is amazing. And I know that, you know, there's certain spots you can do that. I haven't found one yet. But as long as I can get the trout in the water on the line, it's pretty much just a free-for-all with the camera to see if you can get something out of all those, you know, hundreds of shots that you take to get, you know, one good one. It's a crazy adventure. But I have a lot of guides, you know, that'll take me out to go get these shots.

Marvin Cash (33:53): Yeah yeah and so is it for you is it always a photograph or do you keep a sketchbook you know sort of how does the the funnel work for your ideas well I I go from photography.

A.D. Maddox (34:11): That's how I like to work you know sketching sketching's fun but it's a bit too slow for me I like to you know if I'm going to go out there and sketching is not really my medium I'm not a sketcher can I draw? yes I can draw but I like to paint so it's real simple you know I've got to I've got to do the grid lines and get the piece drawn out but even that's a technique in its own to get you know to get your I forget what it's called you know this measuring device to measure from different focal points of the fish to kind of get it to size and you know I can draw out a certain extent but then the paint goes down and I know where you know my lightest light is my darkest dark is and kind of navigate from there to to get it in perfectly so I guess if there's any sketching done it's going to be in the studio is what I'm trying to say.

Marvin Cash (35:27): Got it and so what makes a photograph jump out to say I want to paint this?

A.D. Maddox (35:38): Well it's got to be the focus of the photograph I need detail and it's hard to ask a trout to stand still so you know he's going to wiggle and move so I go on the shot see if I can if if it's got I mean sometimes you know you can't always paint specifically from a photograph because there's going to be things within the photograph that don't work and you take out you know that that's when I take out things that I don't want and have to use my imagination to navigate around those things. But it's mainly the focus of the trout and the position of the trout. It's just the artist's eye to see if it's something that I really want to paint. If it looks yummy, then I'm going to take it.

Marvin Cash (36:29): Got it. And I guess, you know, I know that you're painting a lot, you know, day after day, 10 hours in the studio. Do you prefer, I guess I'm always interested, about how artists create. Do you prefer to paint every day? And do you do it most days of the year and you take vacations like, I guess, non-artist people do? Or do you kind of go intensely for short periods of time to produce your work?

A.D. Maddox (36:59): Well, right now, because, you know, I'm in obviously a new game because I've got the gallery.

Marvin Cash (37:04): Right.

A.D. Maddox (37:05): I'm going to be, I mean, I've been painting for five weeks, five or six weeks solid. I'm probably going to paint at least minimum of six days a week and go hard because I can now, you know. The setup's all different. I've redesigned my studio as, you know, before I was painting with, you know, I had white walls and white canvas. Everything was white, so it's getting so much reflection, and now it's more fun painting. I'm having a lot more fun painting because my setup's different, and, you know, I found a way to get these pieces done a lot quicker.

So I really am obsessed with staying at the easel and painting. I want to see if I can, you know, crank out as many pieces as I can this year. But, you know, to answer your question, yeah, I'm kind of into painting right now, six days a week. Right now I'm doing seven, but I'll probably go to six days a week and take a weekend off here and there. I'm going to play a little bit in summer and then in the winter, it's going to be production time because it's going to be cold and windy here.

And, you know, vacations, right now I'm sick of airplanes, so I don't really want to see one for a while. I've been flying a lot the last five years. And I just kind of want to hunker down and get a lot of stuff done.

Marvin Cash (38:57): Yeah. And, I mean, even if you weren't preparing for a show, I mean, kind of what I've inferred from other interviews and articles I've read about you, I mean, you're painting seven or eight hours a day every day that you're painting, even if you weren't doing a show.

A.D. Maddox (39:13): Yeah, I'm pretty into it. I mean, it's kind of like the mafia. I don't think I'm going to get out of this thing alive. I tell you what, I'm pretty much in it for the whole, the games, finishing as many pieces as I can, you know, quality pieces. And just, yeah, it's pretty much my life, I guess you could say.

Marvin Cash (39:41): No, I totally get it. And I, you know, another question I have kind of about how you produce your work. You know, you know, I know you're very rigid in terms of what time you start and finish and very disciplined. And I have a suspicion that you probably when you started painting for this studio opening, you probably had a queue of ideas that you wanted. And you're just kind of methodically moving through them. Am I correct in kind of inferring that from kind of the way you work?

A.D. Maddox (40:10): Yeah, I started on a lot of pieces a year and a half ago. I think there were 50 that I started and they've all been, they've all had their base coats down. Most of them, I think there's four that don't. They're white canvas, which I'm not going to finish for the show. So the backlog is what I want to get done. I don't like having any backlog because, you know, it holds you back. It's something that's not finished.

So, so the show was okay. I just got, I flew in March 27th. I've got, you know, two and a half months to finish 40 pieces. I think I counted 40 on the lineup and it ended up being 42. So the countdown's been trying to finish 42 paintings. Now I'm running a week behind schedule. Am I going to make the deadline on all those pieces? Probably not. Probably not. But I'm going to finish all the trout that I have in backlog.

Marvin Cash (41:14): Got it. And how many pieces do you have going at one time?

A.D. Maddox (41:20): Well, I've got, I had started 50, so they were all going. I was popping them up and doing base coats, but I'm doing a different style of painting now. So I'm just taking one piece and finishing it and then going to the next and finishing it. So now I'll probably have, I'll probably do rounds of like 10 to 12 pieces. And, and roll through them that way.

Marvin Cash (41:53): Interesting.

A.D. Maddox (41:54): Not 50. I'll probably start at a little smaller number, but I call them a batch. So I'll run a batch and then, you know, finish them all and then do another batch, go out and do the photography. But it's going to depend. Like, I'm kind of navigating this new system right now because I'm in a great playground. So I can go out in the summer and take all these photographs.

You know, once the show rolls, there's a gallery walk every month. And I'm dying to get this backlog done. However, I also have to take advantage of the warm weather here and all the fishing days to get out and get the shots. And then I'll have, I need tons of material to paint over the winter because I'll be almost completely out. No after rolling this 50 I gotta I gotta get new stuff. No got it and so when you create your pieces.

Marvin Cash (43:05): Do you create them for yourself or do you create them for a particular audience and you work on until you're happy with the way they are for that audience?

A.D. Maddox (43:16): Well I kind of the last thing that I'm thinking about is when I'm doing a piece is I guess it's all it all centers around it all centers around exactly what I want to do with peace you know there's commissions when you're painting commissions you know somebody's got to give the you know the approval that they'd like it or whatnot but these are my own pieces so you know I'm just painting them the way that I want them to be no people I mean my stats will show that people like my artwork yeah no I think we got plenty of data points on that for sure and when I'm just gonna paint good art that's what I'm gonna do and then my job is to make sure it's the best piece I can possibly do and that given moment of time.

Marvin Cash (44:39): And when people look at one of your original works, how many hours does that represent of your time?

A.D. Maddox (44:48): You know, each one's got a time sheet. You know, some roll 20, some roll 40, some roll 60, some roll 80. It varies depending on what I eat. No, I'm kidding.

Marvin Cash (45:08): It's all about eating the kale.

A.D. Maddox (45:09): It's all about the kale, right? Sometimes, you know, I'm dancing too much and I'm painting kind of slow because I'm dancing. Techno music will do it to you. Yeah, it really depends on the detail of the piece. If the piece has got like the one I'm on right now it's got a lot of detail I definitely have rolled in 40 hours on this so far and it's probably going to go to the 50 or the 60 mark or maybe it's got 50 already I haven't tallied up the hours but yeah they just vary it's like a puzzle you know can you really time if somebody gave you a different puzzle every day to to work that puzzle and then it's done and then you start a new puzzle and I'm talking about the thousand piece puzzles well some pieces are 500 piece puzzles and some Some are 1,000, some are 2,000.

So that's what I'm talking about with the detail. Sometimes I can see a little bit further what I want to do to pull something off. And like this trout right now, I mean, this is a kick in the pants. I'm having an awesome time on this brown. The detail is driving me crazy. But it's also intense, and I like the intensity. I like the increase in my heart rate and blood pressure. It's like, yeah, this is jumping off the bridge in New Zealand with the bungee cords. This is a good time. It's exhilarating. I'm into it.

Not all pieces are like that. Then you go on the photograph. How much detail is in the photograph? What are you going to do? Are you going to consolidate? Are you going to paint all that detail? Are you going to squint your eyes? I mean, it depends on what mood I'm in during the day as to what I'm going to do or how I was when I started the piece. All the pieces of the puzzle got a foot because it's going to get a signature on it. So it's a game. It's a big game.

Marvin Cash (47:30): No, it sounds awesome. And, you know, when you see your work or your style of painting copied by other artists, does it make you angry that they're being lazy? Or do you sort of view it as an evolution of the art in general?

A.D. Maddox (47:49): Well, you know, it's funny because there's a saying that says, you know, copying is the lowest form, you know, what does that saying go about?

Marvin Cash (48:02): I think it's imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, which I don't think is true.

A.D. Maddox (48:07): Yeah.

Marvin Cash (48:07): But I don't believe that, but that's okay.

A.D. Maddox (48:10): But I think you have to really look at the root of these people that copy the work. First and foremost, these people are inspired. It inspired them to create. Wow, that is fantastic. Because you want people creating. That's how life gets done. You create it every day. So, wow, my work inspired them to create. Well, great. What's their next piece going to be? I think it's incredibly flattering for somebody to copy my work.

But the ones that are doing it are also, you know, they're beginning artists. They're not like the, they're not doing it like the people that were doing it in China and had to contact the company to knock it off. They're doing it to sell it. That's a whole nother thing. And then, of course, you know, my job is just to outcreate anything that goes on. So people are copying the work and they're inspired by it. Great. Well, change your game. You know, get running so fast. You know, pull Carl Lewis here. You're running so fast, nobody can catch you.

So that again goes, you know, the game of change. Change and get better and better and better. And stay out in front of whatever. Keep pushing, pushing really hard. Get uncomfortable. Go places that you don't want to go. Go places that you have a rough time confronting. Go look at it. What's it like? Wow, it's a little rough. Good. Do it some more. Do it some more. You know?

Marvin Cash (50:04): Competence. Yeah. And that's the, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

A.D. Maddox (50:09): Yeah. It takes practice, you know, practice, practice. Oh, that's really uncomfortable. Could definitely tell you, you know, this trout is definitely getting one on the easel right now. It's getting my blood pressure up. Well, good. Pain, pain at this level all the time, you know?

Marvin Cash (50:27): And I know that's exhilarating, but it's also can be exhausting. So how do you recharge your creative batteries?

A.D. Maddox (50:33): Well, I don't need any recharge on the create. The only thing that needs to be recharged is the body. My body runs out, a pain on my feet. So after 10, 11 hours at the easel, you know, I'm ready to kick my feet up and I don't want to do anything. I just want to prop up the feet, turn on a good flick, and then go. I usually just go to bed. That's how I recharge. But I definitely, there's, you know, my creative juices don't stop flowing. They're always there, like a light switch. You flick on the easel lights and there we go. Time to create.

Marvin Cash (51:24): Interesting. And do you bring the same level of focus to your fishing that you do to your art?

A.D. Maddox (51:31): No, I don't, actually. I'm a professional painter. I'm not a professional fly fisherwoman. So in a lot of ways, I mean, you could put me in the category of an intermediate fly fisherwoman. You know, then you have people like Meredith McCord and Rebecca Redd. And, you know, they're like really, really good. They do it all the time. That's their job. They're professional fly fisher women. I'm a professional painter.

So when I go out and fish, it's just fun. There's no pressure. Except, you know, I need to get my shots. I need to catch trout and get it on film. But, but I definitely enjoy myself when I go and fish because I usually go with really good company. I go with a guide. Somebody knows what he's doing and, and I'll learn a lot and it's just relaxing for me. Really. It's like, that's how I get my breath of fresh air is to go out and do something, you know, that's not on the easel.

Marvin Cash (52:44): Yeah. Fantastic. And, and, you know, talking, I wanted to shift gears a little bit to the kind of the commercial side of the business. And, you know, obviously you're one of the most well-known brands in the fly fishing art world. And, you know, I was wondering if you could share the moment that you, you know, you knew you were going to move beyond being successful, as a full-time artist and becoming a brand, right? Because I think there's a difference between, you know, like you started out and you were kind of doing your art when you weren't working and then you knew you could do it full time but then there's a big difference to start to doing covers for ll bean and things like that.

A.D. Maddox (53:24): Yeah I mean that that too was a progression I think I think it was 2007 when Gray's Sporting Journal asked to publish my work and I said well how about the cover they gave me the cover and I was like yeah this is good stuff and that was a real highlight for me was Gray's Sporting Journal because that's such a huge magazine and then Patagonia contacted me in 2009 and wanted to print my work on shirts so just from the beginning of that that was just 10 years ago not that long ago.

So, you know, Patagonia was a really big deal for me because it helped greatly, you know, get my artwork known and out there. And the funny thing is, I haven't really thought about it. Judging the things that my brain gets racked around, my mind is this, you know, when I'm not painting, if I'm by myself, I might be thinking about my artwork, you know, depending on what I have to do. Okay. So, so this, I, I didn't, I didn't really think about it. My job is thinking about doing good art. That's what I'm always thinking about is if I even think. I just kind of do stuff.

Getting the pieces done, doing the best piece possible, and then pumping it out there. I've got pretty good communication skills. And when I finish my artwork, that's time for all the PR. And I do that, you know, making your works known, right? Finish a painting, make it known. So that was my, you know, successful action. I kept sharing the artwork with contacts that I needed to share it with.

But, you know, Montana Fly Company has been huge for me and a beautiful company to work with. I'll probably be with those guys till I'm, till I'm six feet under. But, but they're, they're just a, they're a beautiful company and they've done a lot for my artwork. And, I'm, I'm incredibly grateful with all the success. But it is, it's a progression over time. The thing is, you know, the key to that is you just don't stop creating, right? You feeding the beast. Now that makes sense but and how did you learn the business side?

Marvin Cash (56:23): I mean was it trial and error and you just were relentless and you know you just kept pursuing more and different people in the industry or did you have a mentor? Do you have agents that kind of helped you kind of learn the commercial side of being an artist?

A.D. Maddox (56:41): Well for me these people contacted me that was that's been the really lucky thing that's gone on is all the people I'm with have contacted me I didn't reach out to them those guys so that's that's kind of what I was trying to tell you you know I've been busy painting and then these people will contact me and definitely you know I'm definitely into getting my artwork in as many places as possible however a lot of the stuff you learn as you go.

And when you start getting where your work's on with so many companies and it's on so many things, I have to kind of watch it. What images are with what company? What is it being produced on? So if it's with T-shirts with Patagonia and another company calls me for T-shirts, I usually talk to Patagonia and talk to this company and say, you know, wait a second, you know, if any two companies are being competitive, then I can't do that, right? It's not ethical.

Yep. So there's ethics that come into it. The greatest good for the greatest number of people. How are you going to make this work? If Teva contacted me to do shoes or Nike, I would be like, you know, heck yeah, I don't have any shoe lines. Right. And then when Buff contacted me, Montana fly was rolling and, and, you know, I just, I have to kind of just make sure that everyone's happy. That's my job. And that's, that's business etiquette. It's called good manners, you know, get along well with other people.

Marvin Cash (58:40): And, you know, how do you manage that tension between, you know, being successful as an artist and being commercially successful? Because that seems kind of like the next iteration of getting along and having business etiquette. But, you know, how do you do that?

A.D. Maddox (58:54): Well, a lot of it's common sense, if you really look at it. I mean, it is common sense. Yeah, it's definitely common sense, I think. I mean, business comes very natural to me. You know, hire out as many things as you can. That's my job is to make sure that, you know, websites, you know, print production. I mean, you know, I don't want to deal with that. There's like so much stuff that I hire out. So because I make my money standing at the easel. So anything that pulls me off is, it's got to be hired out. That's how you expand, right?

Marvin Cash (59:42): Yep. Now that makes a lot of sense. Have you ever, you know, felt pressured to do something that was too commercial and you regretted it later? Or have you been pretty lucky?

A.D. Maddox (59:54): No, anything that comes my way commercially, I'll totally bite. If Walmart came my way and wanted to run something, I'd say, heck yeah. I don't have any problem with success and I have no problem with expansion as long as it doesn't pull me off the easel if it's pulling me off the easel I have a problem with it but these companies they take an image and they do their thing and I do my thing and they promote my artwork and we have an exchange.

You know, they win and I win. I get it. My artwork gets exposure. I make money. They make money. Because, you know, blank T-shirts don't sell in, you know, particular companies. So it's a win-win when you work it right with people. It's all in balanced exchange. That's how it works. And so I'm definitely a yes person. But now, you know, when you climb, you also have to really kind of look at who you're working with. Right?

Marvin Cash (01:01:19): No, it makes a lot of sense.

A.D. Maddox (01:01:21): It could be a really small company. But man, the people, these companies, you know, they're really nice. Really sweet people and they're just getting something going and you know it's a new line I don't have my artwork on anything like that you know why not giving a shot well I haven't gotten a check from them there's a problem so so so you kind of you kind of got a you know big companies pay out right and smaller companies pay out too but big companies are a more formal than smaller companies so it's a little bit of a balancing act and then it's like when you work with so many companies you need to get it where it's you know not it's just kind of some big companies and kind of keep it like that.

Marvin Cash (01:02:20): Yeah yeah i mean yeah it makes it makes sense and you know i know you're you're sprinting to get to your gallery opening on the 28th of June. Can you tell folks where your gallery is located and give us some details about your grand opening?

A.D. Maddox (01:02:31): Yes, it's my gallery is on it's 114 North B Street. I'm right off of I don't even know what that main street is on Livingston. There's a main street, then there's another street. I don't know what that is. I haven't able to look yet but I'm on google maps you can google A.D. Maddox Studios it'll take you here I believe it's from 5 30 to 8 those are the hours on the 28th and the gallery the living scene art walk's going on so there's going to be a lot of people kicking around down here and I'm going to have as many new pieces as I can possibly get done.

And there's probably going to be some older pieces too, but, you know, I just got here and getting going. So I'm going to do the best that I can. And that's going to kick it off. And, you know, I've never owned my own gallery before, so this is pretty new for me. But I love meeting people. I find people extremely interesting. And, you know, the more people that come by, the better. There's going to be some wine here and, you know, nothing fancy. Just roll on in. There's no dress code. It's Montana. So I have no idea what to expect, you know, it's, it's a, it's in the first time for me, Marvin.

Marvin Cash (01:04:12): Well, it'll be neat. Can you tell us a little bit about the pieces that you'll be showing and, you know, if there any, you know, I guess.

Marvin Cash (01:04:19): Yeah. Trout.

A.D. Maddox (01:04:20): Any kind of different themes? No, I'm just painting trout. There's a lot of trout in the water. Usually what I paint is trout in the water. There's going to be some trout skins. I did a whole bunch of trout skins, cute little paintings. There's going to be some flies. But I want it all to be trout, and I think I'm going to put up one horse, And I might say that, you know, that's going to be the horses are coming soon because I want to get this Mustang series done just to see what happens with it. And then go out and shoot, you know, this summer and see what I can come up with, you know, new stuff. But yeah, after I started falling behind on the schedule, I figured, well, we'll just go for all the trout.

Marvin Cash (01:05:18): Well that's that's awesome and you want to share your your website address for folks?

A.D. Maddox (01:05:24): admaddox.com that's pretty simple yeah pretty simple yeah i've got originals and and prints and everything available and i'm also on instagram admaddox 999 and facebook you can just google and these should pop up but i post almost every day on instagram and then show all my painting progress on the Instagram story, which also feeds into the front page of my website.

Marvin Cash (01:05:55): Awesome. And I'll put all that stuff in the show notes and, I want to make sure I cover everything. So I have one last question for you before we go. If you would share with us your favorite motorcycle ride in Montana.

A.D. Maddox (01:06:05): Ooh, I don't know yet. Well, I guess, I guess riding down the Gallatin going to Henry's Fork, you know, through their Island Park. I liked doing that ride. And I'm going to go down and see Todd Lanning and Mike Lawson at Henry's Fork Anglers. That's one of the rides I'm going to do. But, yeah, Potato Road, Ashton, the Felt Road. I call it the Potato Road. It's not Montana. I haven't ridden up here. Except for the interstates, but I've done Beartooth Pass, but I kind of like the old Idaho side, you know?

Marvin Cash (01:06:52): Well, that's awesome. Well, listen, A.D., I really appreciate you spending some time with me this evening.

A.D. Maddox (01:06:58): Yeah, definitely. I hope that everyone enjoyed the podcast, and if you can come out and see the show, that'd be awesome. I really love to inspire other people and help them out. They need any help with their creative process. So you can contact me on my website if you have any questions and don't be a stranger.

Marvin Cash (01:07:21): Awesome. Well, I'll certainly put all that stuff in the show notes and thanks everybody for listening tonight. And like I said, at the top of the episode, if you like the podcast, please share it with a friend, give us a review in iTunes and subscribe in the podcast of your choice. Tight lines, everybody. Good night, A.D.

A.D. Maddox (01:07:37): Good night.