S1, Ep 37: Mike Tayloe of Finns West

Marvin Cash (00:04-00:11): Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash of The Articulate Fly, and tonight I'm joined by Mike Tayloe from Finns West. How's it going, Tayloe?

Mike Tayloe (00:12-00:14): Hey Marvin, it's going good, man.

Marvin Cash (00:14-00:16): Yeah, it's still snowing though, right?

Mike Tayloe (00:18-00:21): Yes, it is. May the 21st, and it's snowing.

Marvin Cash (00:21-01:04): That's crazy. Well folks, if you like the podcast, I'd really appreciate it if you'd share it with a friend. I would really appreciate a review in iTunes. And if you could subscribe in a podcatcher of your choice, it would really help us out with our advertisers.

And before we get rolling, I want to give a shout out to tonight's sponsor. It's the Tuckasegee Fly Shop in Bryson City, North Carolina. And they have two locations. They have one in Bryson City and one in Sylva. And you owe it to yourself to go visit Dale and Bobby, meet the other folks in the shop and the shop dogs. They're really good dudes and they can help you out a ton.

So, Mike, I ask all of my guests, I'm sorry, Tayloe, it's a hard thing to break. Tayloe, I ask all of my guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Mike Tayloe (01:08-01:31): Well, Marvin, I guess right off the bat, I've got two, to be honest with you. And we fished the golf courses in Western North Carolina with my dad and brother. I remember that for sure. But I also remember being in my grandfather's Grady White on the Pamlico Sound during the summers with our family. I think that would be the one, I believe.

Marvin Cash (01:31-01:33): Awesome. And what were you fishing for?

Mike Tayloe (01:35-01:49): I don't know. That was when I was three. Me, anything that would bite on the end of the line. But rockfish, I just know that, again, they're from eastern North Carolina. And rockfish were a big catch for sure, at least back then.

Marvin Cash (01:50-01:53): Well, that's awesome. When did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

Mike Tayloe (01:55-02:38): Marvin, I don't have that classic started fishing with my grandfather when I was super young and never put it down, really. It's just been kind of intermittent and haphazard. But my family had a hunting lodge with some other families down on the Outer Banks.

And I distinctly remember the first time I touched a fly rod, there was a canal between the ocean and the Currituck Sound that had bass and little sunfish. I threw poppers when I was six years old, seven years old, that's when I picked up a fly rod. And I didn't say I kept it in my hand for all these years, but that's my first memory of throwing a fly rod.

Marvin Cash (02:38-02:42): Well, that's awesome. And as you got deeper into the sport, who were some of your mentors?

Mike Tayloe (02:44-03:18): During the early days, and again, I'm not fooling anybody. I haven't been fishing nonstop since I was younger, but it would have been my dad and brother then because they were the ones that stuck it in my hand and yelled at me when I was doing something wrong, I believe.

And then more recently over the last years of fishing and guiding out here, it's just the local guys. I mean, there's not one name that stands out. It was just the folks that I jumped in the circle with to fish and they guided me along the way, just local fishermen here in Colorado.

Marvin Cash (03:19-03:29): Well, that's really cool. And I know from your accent, you're not from Colorado. You actually grew up in Western North Carolina. What launched you on your path to the Northern Rockies?

Mike Tayloe (03:32-04:12): So for the longest time, sort of at the end of high school and through the first of college, the first of many years of college, we had friends that came out and sort of planted seeds in the Boulder area. So we would drive out each summer, spring breaks, fall breaks, any break we had to come visit those guys to climb and paddle and music festivals and stuff.

So at a certain point, I got tired of driving out here. So I figured when I was back in Carolina trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life, I might as well be out here to figure it out. And that was it. Packed it up and came out.

Marvin Cash (04:13-04:14): Wow. How old were you when you did that?

Mike Tayloe (04:16-04:37): Marvin, we've talked about this. I'm not good with ages and dates. I would say 20, Marvin, I don't know, 23. I've been out here 27 years, I think. So there's the math, 23, 24, maybe. I don't know.

Marvin Cash (04:38-04:49): We'll stick with that. And I won't ask any more date or number questions. And so part of working things out was some whitewater rafting and some climbing, right?

Mike Tayloe (04:52-05:23): Yeah, totally. The climbing was a big thing. Again, fishing was not highly on the radar back then for me. I mean, I definitely fished when I was out here, but just sort of an afterthought. But yeah, when I was out here, I was up in Montana for a while, working on an ambulance as a medic and flying for a flight service. Ski patrol, and then whitewater raft, and I guided for Glacier Raft in the Flathead Valley for maybe about six years, if you're going to pin me to it, I think.

Marvin Cash (05:25-05:28): Well, that's awesome. And when did you decide you wanted to be a paramedic?

Mike Tayloe (05:31-06:36): Oh, wow, man. I think also that seed was planted when I was super young. My mom was an emergency nurse. So I spent a lot of time in the ER. I'd get out of school back in Carolina and instead of a babysitter, I would go sit in the ER. And so sort of the seed was planted then, I guess.

My dad was also on the board of the local rescue squad. He wasn't a rescue dude or a medical guy. He was on the board. So I got to hang out with all the rescue dudes on the rescue squad back in Carolina as well. So I think the seed was sort of planted then.

And later in life when I was doing the ski patrol and sort of the mountain rescue and search and rescue, I said, if I'm going to do this, I had found what I was going to do, I better do it right and go be a paramedic. And again, I know you're going to ask me a date and I don't. I've been a paramedic for 24 years. So there's some math.

Marvin Cash (06:37-06:48): There you go. And so did you start out kind of doing what I guess I would call traditional kind of urban paramedic stuff and then move to wilderness? Or did you start with wilderness paramedic stuff out of the box?

Mike Tayloe (06:50-07:26): Yeah, I think I did it backwards. So I was back in Carolina at some point when I lived out here, I went back to work for my brother in an EMT class. And that was the traditional sort of emergency medical technician, street medicine stuff. But then it quickly coincided into ski patrol. And I was a raft guide.

And then I was on search and rescue when I came back out here. So I think it all kind of happened at once. And I just sort of combined traditional street medicine with remote and wilderness medicine and just kept rolling until now.

Marvin Cash (07:27-07:33): Well, I have to ask you a war story. So can you share one of your most memorable wilderness rescues?

Mike Tayloe (07:35-08:32): Oh, wow, Marvin. They all, and you've got to understand, the pre-hospital and emergency medicine people are sick people, to be honest with you. So they all start blending together. I would have to say early in my career when I was back in Colorado and I was a new paramedic, I lived in the Pikes Peak region of Colorado.

And we had a pretty intense back country, there was a snowboarder, pretty bad snowboard accident up on Pikes Peak. I was a new paramedic, but I was sort of the lead paramedic on this thing. That kind of jumps out because that sort of set the tone for everything else. But I knew this is what I wanted to do, and I was kind of on the edge for sure. So I think there's been many, but I think that one sort of says when it was and how it sort of, again, set the tone for the rest of the career.

Marvin Cash (08:33-08:41): Awesome. And so I know before Finns West, you and your wife started Katabatic Consulting. Can you tell us a little bit about what Katabatic does?

Mike Tayloe (08:43-10:04): Yeah, sure, man. We provide remote and wilderness medical support and consulting for projects in remote areas. And along with that, when we started the company 17 years ago, there's another date I probably got wrong. But 17 years ago, we started Katabatic Mountain School where we also taught wilderness medicine courses, wilderness first aid, wilderness medicine for paramedics, all the way up really to advanced providers as well. So that's kind of the tagline of what we do.

And I guess an example, one of our longest and biggest contracts now is we design and run the United States Antarctic Program's field camp, remote medical program for everything that goes on down in Antarctica for the U.S. research program. So that's kind of one example we've done.

National Geographic, some other film companies we've been brought in when they're doing remote shoots to kind of look after the folks, sort of be the safety folks and be medical on standby. Alaska, we've done several projects up in Alaska for NatGeo. So that's Katabatic sort of in a nutshell.

Marvin Cash (10:04-10:19): Interesting. So you get approached by, I guess, an expedition might be National Geographic or someone else, and you basically put the medical plan in, kind of logistically move the equipment and put the personnel in place to kind of look after the expedition. Am I kind of understanding that correctly?

Mike Tayloe (10:19-10:46): Yeah, that's it. Well, you're saying expedition, but in the film industry, they're making either a reality TV show, they're filming a part of a movie somewhere they're remote. So everything up to expedition. So just the production.

We'll go in and do an emergency action plan, put everything in place, have the equipment they need, and then we'll physically be there if somebody gets hurt. So, yeah.

Marvin Cash (10:47-10:49): Interesting. Have you met any cool movie stars doing that?

Mike Tayloe (10:50-11:24): Well, no. It seems like — and I don't know. I've never really looked at a contract. We pay an attorney to do that. But I can name a couple of shows that we've done because they're up and going. But Port Protection was one that we did. And they were just the local folks in this crazy place in Alaska that was a reality show. Same crew as like Life Below Zero. I know you probably heard of that.

Stuff like that. No, there's never movie stars at the places we do. They always have doubles.

Marvin Cash (11:25-11:31): There you go. So how did Finns West grow out of Katabatic?

Mike Tayloe (11:34-14:34): Yeah. So that, this is kind of a great story. It makes me feel like a moron a little bit that I didn't think about this earlier. There was a fly fishing show in the Denver area, a fly fishing rendezvous, I believe it was. And a friend of mine knew the organizer, and they were just kind of talking about speakers and stuff.

And somehow my name came up, and they wanted to mix it up a little bit and add a little bit of education. So they called up and said, hey, would you be interested in putting together kind of a presentation on wilderness medicine, not really safety, but medical considerations for fishermen, guides and outfitters?

It's a great idea. And again, you got to remember, no light bulb has gone off yet. I just thought it was a cool thing because we do speak on the medical side at conferences and expos and stuff. So easy enough to do because obviously I was a guide then. And so I did the gig. I went and did the presentation.

I was blown away that people actually attended a fly fishing show. That here was this sort of medical wilderness, a lot of things. When I finished, a dude came up, John Perry, and he said, hey, man, I just bought a lodge up in Alaska that I've guided at for the past 20 years. And I think it'd be a good idea to get you up there to do a course for my guides and staff to kind of put together an emergency plan for our operation.

And I'm going to tell you, Marvin, the light bulb exploded in my head. I'd never, ever put the two together, the guiding in the fly fishing industry and crossed it over into our sort of wilderness Katabatic side. And man, it just took off from there.

I went up and did the course. It was well received. It worked because we've been doing courses all over, just not specifically for the fishing and hunting industry. To be honest with you, Marvin, I thought that places like this would already be dialed in and they weren't, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but you just don't know what you don't know. So it just kind of took off from there.

You and I sort of talked about Carter Andrews and Oliver. When all this was going on, I gave Carter Andrews a call, he's an old high school buddy. We went to high school together in Virginia and sort of ran the idea past him, and he sort of gave me some advice, but he also turned me on to Oliver.

And again, ironically, Oliver and I grew up in the exact same area in Western North Carolina, but we really didn't know each other. But that meeting alone sort of launched Finns West because he jumped in, he got behind us immediately. We did his two lodges that same year, and man, it's just taken off since then.

Marvin Cash (14:35-14:44): Wow, that's amazing. And can you give us a little bit more detail? I mean, I think I have a general idea about what you do when you go out to the lodges, but can you give a little bit more detail for my listeners?

Mike Tayloe (14:46-16:07): Yeah, totally. It's pretty straightforward. We roll in, kind of check out the operation and get a sense of just where they are, how far they are from definitive care, any kind of emergency care response. And we put together an emergency action plan. So just a plan that from the staff to the guides, they're dialed in. They know something goes sideways, it's not a game time decision.

And we do it simply because we're pretty simple folks, meaning it's something you can understand and read. It's not like an emergency action plan from a nuclear power plant that somebody tried to squeeze into a fly fishing or hunting operation.

And then we do a custom wilderness first aid course for the guides and staff. And we combine the emergency plan with the course. So it's all relative. It's not just pretend kind of stuff. And they know exactly where they are. So obviously, a course down at Oliver's lodge in the Bahamas, or lodges, is totally different than a lodge in Alaska. Just because of their environment, one has flats boats, one has jet sleds.

So yeah, that's what we do. We dial them in to be as safe as they can and be prepared if something goes sideways.

Marvin Cash (16:07-16:10): Well, that's awesome. And how long do the classes last?

Mike Tayloe (16:11-16:47): Well, it depends on how remote they are. Our standard courses, we do one, two and three day courses. One day courses are really for the walk and wade one day shops that are in and out and have relatively quick response from emergency services.

And then for Alaska and the Bahamas, Honduras, places where it's non-existent or very delayed, we'll do a two or three day, really dependent on what we assess and what the client or the lodge owners and managers would like to do. So, yeah.

Marvin Cash (16:48-16:53): Cool. And what are some of the coolest places you've been working with Katabatic and Finns West?

Mike Tayloe (16:56-18:15): Wow. So hands down for Katabatic, and remember Katabatic is not the hunting and fishing side, we're going all over, it's hands down Antarctica. I mean we've been down there for 17 years and we've seen practically the entire continent and we get to see it like nobody does and it's just amazing, it's an amazing place to check out for sure. So yeah, that's the Katabatic side I think.

Finns West, the fishing, hunting side, oh, there's a bunch. I would say the two that jump out would be Guyana. In South America, for sure, we went down and did, again, one of Oliver and Costa's projects for IndieFly. We went down and did Rewa Eco Lodge, and that was absolutely just insane. In the middle of the jungle, what these guys and gals are doing down there.

We just got back from Guanaja, Honduras. We fish for change and Fly Fish Guanaja. And again, unbelievable. The people were awesome. The fish were awesome. Their program, both of them were different. So I'd say that would probably wrap up the Finns West side as well. But they're all awesome. I don't know. I like the Bahamas just as much.

Marvin Cash (18:16-18:34): Yeah, no, I can't ever say I've had a bad day on the water. I've had better days, but not bad days. Exactly. So to kind of help my listeners, if we kind of come back a little bit to help them understand the difference between traditional first aid and wilderness first aid.

Mike Tayloe (18:35-20:12): Oh, man, Marvin, great question. I appreciate you bringing that up without a doubt. So here's the thing. Traditional first aid is awesome, of course, it's amazing, but it's amazing for what it's designed for. And these courses are designed for rapid emergency response. Shit goes down, you dial 911 and you take care of breathing, you take care of bleeding. And within 10 minutes or so, somebody's going to show up professionally to take over. And it's great. It's wonderful for what it's designed for.

But quite frankly, that is not what we do in the hunting and fishing industry. We're not, most of the time, we're not 10, 15, 20 minutes from definitive care. So that's where wilderness medicine or wilderness first aid comes in. It goes beyond that 10, 15 minutes.

So you've taken care of the ABCs, the medicine's the same, but you've taken care of the life threats. Well, now what? I mean, you're still now with this person for, who knows, another hour or another four days. So we get into the critical thinking about how to manage somebody that's sick or injured after that 10 minutes or so, and how to deal with the environment that you're in.

I mean, we've got to deal with the heat, the cold, your own water. You don't have all your equipment there with you. So it sort of takes it beyond the 10 minutes, and critical thinking, how to deal with an injury or an illness when 911 is not around the corner.

Marvin Cash (20:14-20:20): Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't really understand that they're in that situation when they're fishing and hunting a lot more than they really think.

Mike Tayloe (20:22-20:42): Oh, no doubt. I mean, and we have learned a bunch. I mean, obviously we do this professionally and with our company, but when we show up at lodges and outfitters and guide services and sort of go through it, there's wide eyes because you just don't know what you don't know, right?

Marvin Cash (20:44-20:54): Yeah. And I mean, shock and things like that or hypothermia when it's warm outside and you didn't take a fleece and a rain jacket and you got caught, right? I mean, it's just, it's crazy, right?

Mike Tayloe (20:56-21:42): Well, that's right. And you bring up a good point. And that's one of the major sort of focuses on these courses. And again, we're not the only people that do this. There are some great schools and courses that teach wilderness medicine, but we are the only ones that focus on fly fishing and hunting specifically because, well, we're guides in the industry.

But recognition. I mean, that's huge where you're out with a client and it's easier to recognize something's coming down the pipe before it gets, before you get red flagged and it's too late. And it's just a big, it's a big part of what we teach is recognize things are coming, fix them or know when to push the red button, when to get out of there and make the call.

Marvin Cash (21:43-22:00): Yeah, and it kind of leads to my next question. I know it's really hard to generalize, but I suspect you've been doing this a long time. You've probably got the top two or three really stupid things that people do when they're outdoors that are big first aid mistakes. You want to tick some of those off where you're just like, it happened again.

Mike Tayloe (22:04-24:12): Totally. Well, you got to remember that's job security for us as well. So people need to make a few mistakes here and there. I think I can throw out the big net. I don't think I have to pick a single one because it's consistent. It's what we hear. It's the feedback we get from guides and outdoorsmen, without a doubt. And it's what we see as medical practitioners because it's kind of funny, Marvin, I actually respond as a paramedic and on the rescue team here to the actual rivers that I guide on. So it sort of solidifies what we're doing in these courses.

But here's what I think. I think that people, and I mean, these are good professionals who have been doing this a long time. I think they think they are more prepared than they are. And what I mean by that is they take some kind of first aid class and they feel good about it. Because, again, they don't know what they don't know. They don't know there's another, I don't know the word, genre of medicine, wilderness medicine, that takes them beyond that 10, 15 minutes.

So they're not prepared medically for where they are. And that translates right into what they're carrying, meaning their first aid kits. And we have seen a lot of first aid kits. And that's part of what we do. We go through the lodge or the outfitters' first aid kits. And our tagline is this, the bigger the first aid kit, the less you know.

And if you think about it, it makes sense. People just cram shit in a kit, go, I may need that. Oh, I better carry that. But when they have the background and the education and know what they can and can't do and what works and what doesn't, their kit is more specific and it gets smaller and smaller for what they can do.

So I just think to answer your question, I can't pick a specific thing other than I think people think they're more prepared than they are. And then when the real deal goes down, they learn real quick that they're not, if that makes sense.

Marvin Cash (24:12-24:19): That makes a lot of sense. Like what do you do when you're stabilized after 15 minutes, right? And you got a day and a half. It's a lot of time to fill, right?

Mike Tayloe (24:19-25:13): Oh, yeah. That's right. And I mean, we could go into all sorts of cool stuff that we teach and people just don't realize. Tourniquets being one. Almost 95 percent of the courses we do. One of the questions is, you put a tourniquet on. Can you take it off? And everybody unanimously says no, absolutely not.

Well, you can, and there's a procedure, and you have to be taught and know what you're doing, and you have to keep up with the changes in medicine. But it's just little stuff like that that sort of changes outcomes. Where had they known this? And again, I'm not using a scare tactic here on your podcast by any means because it is what it is.

We're fortunate enough to not only be medical providers and educators, but we're also guides. So we see this stuff and we know what happens out there, right?

Marvin Cash (25:14-25:20): Absolutely. And I know another group that you partner with are the folks at Global Rescue. How did that partnership come about?

Mike Tayloe (25:22-27:05): Yes, totally. Global Rescue, great partners. We've been involved with those guys since day one. We actually opened our doors at Katabatic about the same time Global Rescue did over on the East Coast. And we knew some of their operators just from conferences and medical conferences. And it worked out good. And here's why.

So we provide sort of, there is some crossover. I will say that just to keep everything on the up and up for what we do. But we're sort of the ground folks. So we go in, do a course, do an emergency action plan for their whole operation, get them prepared when an emergency happens.

Global Rescue, on the other hand, they're your evacuation and consultation membership company. So they come get you and get you home from anywhere on planet Earth. They also have a consultation service, if you have that package, where you can call them up on a sat phone and say, here's what I got. What do you think? And they've got just an armory of physicians, Johns Hopkins. Yeah, Johns Hopkins that they can tap into. They've got medics and physicians answer phones 24/7.

So that was the piece that we didn't have. And it just made sense. We could put a full package together for our clients and vice versa, where we get up to the point where there's an emergency that's occurred. You need to do the immediate life threat stabilization. And then you tap Global Rescue and Global Rescue comes in and pulls you out of there. Yeah, it's a great product.

Marvin Cash (27:05-27:23): I've certainly used it and I've encouraged people to get it. I mean, particularly when you start doing the more exotic trips through Yellow Dog and people like that, you want to know you can get home. I even know people that use their product for skiing out West because they want to be able to get flown home to see their own orthopedist if they have a problem. I mean, it's pretty crazy.

Mike Tayloe (27:25-27:53): Oh, yes. There's no question. This is not a sales pitch. They're our partners, and I'm talking to folks because everybody should have it that does what we do, period. If we weren't partners, I would have a policy. Obviously, we have one. I wouldn't leave my front door without this, and it's cheap, Marvin. I mean, people say, holy cow, it's dirty but the outcome of what it would be if shit really goes sideways.

Marvin Cash (27:54-27:59): Yeah, no, I'm amazed at how inexpensive it is, even if you buy it by the year. I mean, it's insanely inexpensive.

Mike Tayloe (28:01-28:12): Oh, yeah. Again, it's not a sales pitch at all, but we do what we do. We wouldn't leave, we don't. I wouldn't leave my front door without this policy in place, no doubt.

Marvin Cash (28:13-28:37): Well, that's awesome. And one of the things I know that you do at Finns West and Katabatic is you're really giving back and helping conservation groups and not-for-profit groups benefit from your medical knowledge and experience is really important to you. And I wanted you to kind of share with my listeners some of the work that you've done. I know you've done work with Oliver, but you've done work with people like Project Healing Waters too.

Mike Tayloe (28:39-30:15): Yeah, totally. Good. And thanks for bringing that up for sure. So we don't have any money. I mean, to do what we're all doing we've got to have 13 jobs or whatever. We'd love to be able to dump in a Costa or Simms check amount check to some of these conservation groups, but we just can't do it.

So we figured out sort of a way to give back since we are in the hunting and fishing industry. And again this sort of came about with organizations like IndieFly where, I'm sure your listeners know what they do. But the one way we can support the project is go to these places and that missing link 90% of the time is the medical side.

These guys are training the villagers, locals to stewardship of their fisheries. But again, on the weekend, we come in and donate a course and emergency action plan for the operations so they're dialed in. And yeah, we work with Fish for Change on all their program locations, which is in Honduras for their guys. Same with Rewa Eco Lodge down in Guyana.

We do work with Project Healing Waters. There's so many chapters around that, just the logistics of trying to get it together. They're on the board for sure. So yeah, that's our way of doing the right thing and not having any money.

Marvin Cash (30:15-30:26): Well but the cool thing too is I mean in some of those places where Oliver does his work with IndieFly, I mean they're insanely remote. You're not just helping guides look after fishermen and hunters, you're helping guides be able to take care of their home and their villagers, right?

Mike Tayloe (30:26-31:12): Yeah, totally. And that again we've done mission work is not the right word but we've done projects in Nepal because we sort of helped set up the Everest base camp rescue and medical clinic over there. But you also want to give back to the community and that's where that was seeded for us.

Same thing in Guyana. I mean, we did a program for the actual, I mean in the village where we were. Same with Honduras. We try to pass on to where it's not just for the guides and staff, but the locals benefit when we're down there for sure. At least that's what we hope to do.

Marvin Cash (31:12-31:26): Well, I mean, it just has to be, I mean, because they live remotely. So that's really great. As we kind of shift, I know you said you didn't kind of traditionally get into the fly fishing path, but it's time to talk about Tayloe, the fishing guide. So when did you decide you wanted to be a guide?

Mike Tayloe (31:28-31:36): Oh, well, it was 2:30 in the morning. I'd gotten off the ambulance and said, I'm never doing this again. I got to choose something different.

Marvin Cash (31:36-31:39): No, I'm just kidding. That's pretty cool.

Mike Tayloe (31:39-31:41): You got a time date stamp and everything.

Marvin Cash (31:41-31:42): Let's see about that date.

Mike Tayloe (31:43-33:22): Well, I made that up, so we're good there. I don't know. I am not a 365 full-time fly fishing guide. I mean, obviously, I guide in Chile during the winters. I guide here in Colorado when I can, but I also have a business.

But when I pulled the quivers back out, and Marvin, I don't want this to sound cliché, but it's the truth. I mean, period. When I pulled the sticks back out and hit the river, that was it. I mean, I know it sounds cliché, but that was it. I literally quit, or not quit. I resigned or stepped away from full-time and a lot of part-time EMS to focus on fishing.

And I had an opportunity, best opportunity of my life, to help open a fly fishing shop here in the area. So that was sort of the transition. And just from our education and teaching background, I think that's sort of what pushed me into the guiding. Love to teach. I like to pass on what limited information I have. I needed to fill that monetary gap from pulling back from riding on the ambulance.

So it just kind of happened. I didn't go to a guide school. I think I got thrown into the fire and just, I was on the South Platte River and just kind of picked it up as I went. So again, I can't give you a date, but it was shortly after I pulled the quivers back out and put my time in on the water to learn the waters and whatnot.

Marvin Cash (33:23-33:28): Well, that's awesome. And who are some of the folks that kind of helped you work on your guide chops?

Mike Tayloe (33:31-33:33): On the guide chops for guiding.

Marvin Cash (33:34-33:40): Well, your chops for being a guide, right? So who kind of, yeah, sorry.

Mike Tayloe (33:41-33:45): I got it, we're both from the South. We should understand each other, Marvin, pretty good.

Marvin Cash (33:46-33:46): I would hope.

Mike Tayloe (33:48-34:41): Again, it was nobody in particular, and I'm sure somebody's going to listen to this and get pissed off, but there was a bunch of folks and they're not in magazines. They're not on the cover of any magazines. There were just guides that were established that I guided around when I started that jumped in and just showed me the ropes.

Landon Mayer is basically a neighbor of mine up here in Teller County on the South Platte basin. I knew I would hit Landon up all the time. We still fish together and weren't best buddies but Landon gave me some great advice early on as well. But I just think it was just the day-to-day hardcore guys that I hit up non-stop that sort of pushed me through the process.

Marvin Cash (34:42-34:53): Well, that's awesome. And so I know you guide in the northern and the southern hemisphere. So let's talk a little bit about where you guide in Colorado and what you guide for.

Mike Tayloe (34:53-35:51): Yeah, totally. So currently, I guide for the Broadmoor. The Broadmoor has an Orvis Endorsed Lodge and a ranch up on the Tarryall River, which is a tributary to the South Platte River, which is our main, obviously, watershed here where I live. But I'm primarily there, which is great. It's, again, I don't mean to sound cliché, but private water, great clients. It's right up the road from where I live.

So that's what I'm currently doing for those guys. We're walk and wade pretty much until you get down to the Arkansas River. All of our fishery up here is walk and wade, so not pulling any oars for sure. And then we've got just your Colorado fish. We've got browns and rainbows and a few brookies thrown in here and there. So yeah, that's the fishery and what I'm doing when I can in the summer here.

Marvin Cash (35:52-35:57): Awesome. But I also know you've got a flats boat that you fish up in Colorado too. What are you doing with that?

Mike Tayloe (35:59-36:46): Well, I just, okay. So I've learned that I need not to divulge too much information. I've learned this the hard way, but yeah, totally. So we've got three, four reservoirs in our area, all, again, South Platte drainage reservoirs. And uniquely, we've got flats. I mean, we've got large areas of skinny water that trout are cruising in.

So that's what we're doing. We're fishing the flats just like you would at Abaco Lodge and sight casting to cruising cutties, rainbows and the occasional brown that pop up on the flats. It's changed my entire fishing outlook here in Colorado without a doubt.

Marvin Cash (36:47-36:58): Very cool. And do you, I don't want, and if you want to tell me you're fishing for landlocked tarpon, you can do that. But do you also perchance chase carp?

Mike Tayloe (37:00-37:57): Well, yeah. And that's kind of how this all started. Now, granted, I didn't invent shit. I mean, people have been doing this all over, just not in our area. But it was, we do chase carp. So when the water warms up and trout are going deep and the carp start to come up, that's sort of our go-to for sure.

But pike is what started it all, at least for me. Standing out, chest deep in a weed bed, freezing your ass off and going, yeah, something's got to change. And that's where the whole flats boat came up, where what can we do? We need to get a boat. And then, well, a regular Lund or something won't work. You can't get in four inches of water.

And we started looking for a flats boat, bought one. And then we're three flats boats later, and we've got it dialed in. Pike and then cruising trout on the flats. Absolutely.

Marvin Cash (37:58-38:05): Well, that's super cool. And so, and I know you've got that off season gig where you get to go to Patagonia and fish. How did that come about?

Mike Tayloe (38:08-40:25): Yeah. So Chile was right place, right time. I mean, obviously I don't have a Carter Andrews slash Oliver White international guiding resume for four years ago when I got the gig, but here's where the whole Katabatic medical thing has sort of tied into fishing.

We manage the sort of the remote medicine on two of the research vessels for the Antarctic program. And their home port is in Punta Arenas, Chile. So one, four years ago, I think this is where my wife told me I was lying and I hadn't been down there that long. I remember four years ago, I needed to go down and check the vessels out and also wanted to fish.

And as you know, they don't have fly shops down there, especially that far south, because we are literally on Cape Horn. I googled this fellow's name and said, hey, he's got some helicopter operation, but it's the off-season for him. He lives in Punta Arenas. Give him a call or email.

And I did and said, I want to come fishing. I'll be down there. We started talking. At the time, I was doing some hosted trip kind of deals to Argentina. And, again, we had the Broadmoor clients. He said, hey, do you think you could get some of your folks to come down? I'm like, sure.

Before I left there two days later, I had five clients booked for their operation, never been there. He looked at me and said, hey, you've been around helicopters your whole life. You guide. Why don't you come down and guide your group? I'm like, well, sweet.

So that just sort of happened. I was sort of concerned that I'd never seen the fishery in my life. And he said, look, don't worry about it. Trust me. And he was right. You could be blind with no legs and go down there and catch fish. It was more of the helicopter safety, sort of the guide sort of side.

I got home and Marvin, the dude Rafa called me and said, hey, I kind of need a guide for the season. So I just kept ramping up and there you go. I'm down for the season and coming up on four or five, four seasons later and been going ever since.

Marvin Cash (40:26-40:31): That's really cool. So when does your Colorado season end and when does your Chilean season start?

Mike Tayloe (40:33-41:11): So I'm going to go backwards. The Chilean season is at the very end of December. It's pretty sketch that last week of December because we are literally on Cape Horn. We stick out into the Antarctic Ocean. So let's just say the first of January to about the second week or middle of March is the Patagonia season.

And then as you know our Colorado season we fish year-round but I usually start guiding about now if we didn't have 70 feet of snow on the ground. It's usually April through well April through November for at least when I'm guiding here.

Marvin Cash (41:11-41:15): Well that keeps you pretty busy too because you got to get back and do the show season stuff in the winter in the states.

Mike Tayloe (41:15-42:10): Well, that, yeah, that's for sure. And then of course, obviously we have Finns West. I mean, so our season, you didn't ask me this, but our season for Finns West is not now because all the guide services and lodges are operating. So we're not, we can't roll in there and do a three or four day course or whatever for those guys.

So we sort of catch them in between the guide seasons is when we catch people. So sort of the end of the Colorado guide season, we start doing catching the lodges for, to say the South America side before they start up. And then in the spring, we start to grab the North American lodges before they open up.

So it all sort of rolls with this continuous craziness of fishing and teaching, really.

Marvin Cash (42:10-42:23): Wow. Holy cow. It makes me tired. So I always ask all of my guests that guide to share what they think the biggest misconception people have about the life of a fishing guide.

Mike Tayloe (42:28-43:46): Again, I am not that 365 day guide full-time kind of thing. And I don't pull oars. That's another thing, because I'll tell you what I'm going to say. I think it's harder than people think it is. I mean, we always hear, all of us, that you got it made. You got, what a lifestyle. It's awesome. You get to do what you love, and that's all correct.

But I just think it's harder than people think. And again, that's coming from a dude that's a walk and wade guide. I'm not pushing a boat off a launching platform, and I'm not pulling oars on a river. That's coming from a walk and wade guide.

But I mean, Landon, I've talked about this. There's a lot of scouting. You kind of got to know your fishery and know the different changes with flows and weather. You got to get your stuff together. We're not fishing, that's for sure, when we're with clients. So you're working with clients, you're walking a thousand miles a day back and forth.

So I would never do anything different, but I think it's harder than what people think it is. A lot of time and effort go into being, and I should say, a successful and professional guide, I believe.

Marvin Cash (43:47-44:04): Yeah, it's a grind, and I mean, it's amazing, particularly like for you, because you've got a longer season than most guides. But it's crazy talking to guys here in Western North Carolina, and they're talking about guiding like 200, 225 days a year. I mean, that's tough, even if you love it.

Mike Tayloe (44:06-44:42): Yeah, totally. I'm again and I, there's no misconception on my part. Under 250 days I don't push a boat around for a living and I don't row a boat all day long every single day. It's interesting and I'm tired. Now granted I'm old too. I just don't think it's again thinking well the misconception that it's a party and you fish a bunch and good for you. You can't fish when you're guiding.

Marvin Cash (44:42-44:49): So yeah, yeah, it generally means you're doing something wrong when the guide says hand me your rod for a second.

Mike Tayloe (44:49-45:24): That's right, even though today I don't know. I don't throw this out because you just said that and I was struggling big time. And I'd done everything I could. And all my folks had caught fish. And it was a quick trip today because of the weather. And she said, I'm done. I'm completely done. And she handed me the rod.

I did a drift. She handed her the rod back. She brought it in, and it made her day. So, yeah, we get to fish every once in a while, I guess.

Marvin Cash (45:25-45:37): Well, there you go. So you're in kind of full guiding mode, but do you have any speaking engagements or appearances around the Colorado area or anywhere else you want to let folks know about?

Mike Tayloe (45:39-46:08): Marvin, we don't. But this is our, between seasons, there's really no shows going on. So we're guiding. We're either doing our medical side of things and guiding, but as far as courses and shows and presentations, there might be a one-off here and there at a Trout Unlimited meeting that I have forgotten about. But no, we're chilling until fall time, and then we ramp back up.

Marvin Cash (46:08-46:25): Yeah, that's kind of what I expected, but I feel duty-bound to ask that question. Before we leave tonight, why don't you let folks know, I guess, where they can find you, if they want to fish with you, and also if they want to talk to you about Katabatic and Finns West.

Mike Tayloe (46:28-47:08): Yeah, cool. Easy. It's FinnsWest.com. So F-I-N-N-S-W-E-S-T.com. Wait, did I say that right? I've got to look at my business card. Finns West. Yeah, that's right. Two N's there. FinnsWest.com. They can get in touch with us. Our email's on there as well. It talks about our programs, direct link right to our Chile heli season as well. And yeah man, that should give them all the information they need, if not more than they need.

Marvin Cash (47:08-47:39): Well, that's awesome Tayloe. I appreciate you spending a snowy May evening with me talking about everything you've done and hopefully it thaws out pretty soon. And folks, hope you've enjoyed it. Want to give a shout out again to tonight's sponsor, the Tuckasegee Fly Shop.

And again, if you like the podcast, I'd really appreciate it if you'd share it with a friend, give us a review in iTunes and subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice. We're in the middle of doing some advertising stuff and it would really help us out. Well, Tayloe, I appreciate it. Tight lines, everybody.

Mike Tayloe (47:41-47:46): Okay. Cool. Thank you, Marvin. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity. Be safe out there.

Marvin Cash (47:46-47:48): Oh, no, it's been great. Have a good evening.

Mike Tayloe (47:49-47:50): You too.