S1, Ep 50: Conversation with Blane Chocklett (Pt 2)

Marvin Cash: Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. And we're back with part two of our interview with Blane Chocklett. Before we get to the interview, just a couple quick things.

If you're enjoying the podcast, it would be great if you could leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on the podcatcher of your choice. Also, Blane and I think it would be great if you would make a donation to the Lefty Kreh Memorial Conservation Fund. The funds raised go to support TU and BTT conservation projects. For more information and to donate, visit www.bonefishtarpentrust.org/leftykreh. We'll also have a link in the show notes and in this episode's Facebook post.

Now, on to our interview. That's awesome. And that's a great segue to start talking about your patterns that you're known for. So your first big pattern was the Gummy Minnow. Tell us a little bit about how the gummy came about.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, well, the gummy was my first attempt back in '98 to create a fly that would look and act like the soft plastics that were so successful on the conventional side. And it was a failure. It's like, man, I can make this fly look exactly like the real thing. But my real thing, I was trying to get it to swim like a Zoom Fluke or any soft plastic out there, or even a Senko. But it didn't have that action.

But what it did have is it had the realism. I have this theory on how I think fish react to lures or flies. The movement gets them in there, and at the last second, obviously learning, especially as a fly angler, profile, silhouette, and what is real food is the last trigger that causes them to eat it or not. And the gummy has that. It just failed miserably of having the swimming action that I wanted.

So it was one of those things that Bob Popovics always told me - a great fly design comes from problem solving. So my problem in fly design, especially for smallmouth bass early on, was creating a fly that would swim like these soft plastics. I'd get a client in the boat that was fly fishing. They would always bring a friend that didn't fly fish, whether it be a female or a male, and I would just put soft plastics on them and not have to worry about them because they were going to catch fish constantly and catch nice ones.

So it was like, man, we just got to figure out something in fly that will work like this. And that's been my goal for 20 some years. You know, trial and error. I've tied a lot of shitty patterns. Trust me, man. I mean, I've got a bucket full of bad stuff that just didn't work out. And the gummy was kind of like that. But it also helped me realize movement.

It helped me - I'm not being an engineer - I started understanding a little bit about water and how things react in water and how they don't. So that's kind of the start of a lot of that, to be honest. And it's failure, not being afraid to make mistakes. Obviously being a musky angler, you can't - failure is pretty much most of your day.

And it's kind of funny. I mean, the other sport that I love a lot is golf. And golf is a lot of failure. You know what I mean? And I heard Tiger Woods mention this the other day - you spend most of your time not winning and you got those few times where you do win. And he happened to win 80 sometimes, right. But he's won more - I think he's number one right now or tied for number one all time wins, right. But how many tournaments has he played and not won?

So it's the same deal when you're targeting that fish of a lifetime. It's the failures that get you there though, right?

Marvin Cash: Yeah, no, that's interesting. I want to talk about that a little bit more later. So I know the gummy had the mouth feel, but it didn't have the action.

Blane Chocklett: Right.

Marvin Cash: So fish would bite it and it would feel right.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah.

Marvin Cash: So it had the right silhouette. And so I guess really, to me, I kind of think the next pattern when I think about Blane Chocklett after the gummy but before the Game Changers is the T-Bone.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah.

Marvin Cash: Tell us a little bit about how the T-Bone came about, and I'd be really interested to hear how that worked into the evolution of the Game Changer.

Blane Chocklett: Sure. So the gummy and I had a bunch of different variations of that. You know, about that same time I started getting into the musky game and the big stripers. This would have been mid early 2000s.

I had a good friend of mine, his name's David Garst. He was the only person I actually knew that fly fished when I was in high school. He went to a local school that was not too far away. But he also knew Harry Stevens and Steve Heiner, and they hooked us up together because we were the only kids - I mean, we're the exact same age too. And he happened to be geeked out on fly fishing like me.

And it was actually more - he was a much better tier than I was. He was more accomplished when I met him than I was. But he was just really into the outdoors. And he's now a biologist. He's a biologist of several things, but his main things are snakes. So I mean, he's just always been an outdoor person.

So moving forward with that, David and I would - I'd be guiding my clients for smallmouth bass, and I would have him meet me after that to start targeting muskies. And my goal was to consistently catch a musky on the fly. At the time, I hadn't caught one. You know, I caught them on gear with him, and he would throw gear. He had no problem throwing gear. I was trying to be more of a purist and throw fly.

And I mean, I'm not a purist at all. Obviously, with the fly designs, I learned a lot from the conventional world quite a bit, right. So he would give me first shot at the spots. Because, I mean, like I said, being on the water, learning the water, you learn where fish are at different times of the year. So I knew exactly where some of these muskies were. So I knew we were fishing over muskies.

So on the good days with the different flies I was throwing, you know, I might get a follow, you might see a fish or whatever, and he'd give me the first pass. You know, fish an hour or so, nothing. And then I would give him the reins at the bow. And he'd be using the traditional musky lures and get a fish in the first 10, 15 minutes.

And I'm like, there's something that's just not coming together with this whole thing with these fish. They're here, but they were not creating the triggers that these muskies want. And a lot of the things he was creating were side motions, you know, showing profile. The biggest one was vibration with the spinner baits that he was throwing - these bucktails with the big blades, which you can't really replicate with a fly rod, right.

But I did do that. I actually took - back then, it was funny - I took some long shank hooks, tied a deceiver on it and left the front end open. And I put some beads in the front and then put a clevis in that. And then I bent a wire to make a spoon shape. And then I took 3M spray and sprayed a ribbon and it would happen to be a gold ribbon with reflection on it and glued that to that spoon shape that I cut out with that wire and then glued it together and then epoxied over that.

So I basically had a spinner, a bucktail spinner. And I actually got some reaction, but it was horrible to cast. I'm like, why even bother? You know, pick up a baitcaster at that point.

So then I just kept playing with all these rudimentary terrible flies. And then I started playing around with foam discs, which happened to be my first pattern with Umpqua Feather Merchants was my disc sliders and poppers back in, I think '98, '99.

And so I started tying these larger head profiles and I started seeing better results with that, with stripers. I remember going up and fishing in the Susquehanna Flats with Bill Dawson and catching some really big stripers on the flats. I left a couple of those flies with him. And he ended up catching some really big 30, 40 pound stripers on those flies.

And they were big - basically a deceiver with a big disc slider head that would have a really different motion. And that taught me a lot about how the beginning of a fly, the front of the fly can affect how the fly swims and how it's going to act in the water.

So I started playing with those different ideas and that's kind of where the T-Bone came from, is actually foam discs. And a friend of mine, like being in the industry for as long as I have and being at the shows and meeting all these people, I met a guy, Rich Murphy, who's an engineer up in Massachusetts. He's a beach angler that wrote an incredible book on striper fishing. And who I'm a big fan of. He's a great tier, and he gave me - he had these Steephill Specials and these other different flies that he was using tubing.

And he gave me this tubing back then and said, see if you can do something with it. And I took that tubing and started playing around with dams and bodies to create profile. And you know, at that same time Bob Popovics had been doing the reverse tie, the hollow style, the Beast stuff. And those flies are - that's what really changed the game really in big game hunting with a fly rod is Bob's reverse hollow style.

But the negative to that for me and fishing all through a day in currents and stuff, his bucktail, the elasticity of it would end up compressing over time and it would get snaked out. So I was looking for - and not saying that that's a negative. I mean it's just the way things work, right. But for him creating that profile that creates that larger look to it without creating too much bulk so we could cast it, that was just a huge breakthrough and Bob has forever changed the game. In my mind he's the greatest fly designer that's ever lived.

But for me I needed something because I'm a lazy tier, I don't want to - I do love creating flies but I don't like sitting down and tying a lot of flies. So I wanted something that was going to last for a long time.

So I started taking that body tubing and reverse tying it and creating these dams, which dams have been around for a long time too. But I wanted something that was going to be, I guess hollow, that wasn't going to create a lot of weight and wasn't going to create too much bulk. So reverse tying that body tubing allowed all of that. So I could just spin bucktail in front of that and create that same profile that you were getting from a hollow fly.

But it was basically self healing because I could compress that body tubing forward and it would make that bucktail stick up again. So it basically created that profile - a long term solution to the profile.

And then I started playing around with wire, and being a conventional and fly guy, I had a wire bending kit. So I started playing with wire and creating articulations with these things to create more of that jackknife deal. But I also learned that the head diameter was the biggest part of all that. The bigger the head, the more of that jackknife that you got because it's just basically a stall out.

So that's kind of the beginning of the T-Bone for me really. And the T-Bone is also the beginning of the Game Changer because I started seeing more of that serpentine movement with just adding a shank or two, you know. Or at the time too, I would just break off hooks and tie a hook on the back of another one and just do that traditional what we use now for wire connection with beads to connect an articulation.

But I just wanted to move it forward with that and just use more of a solid connection there and better platform for tying. At the time, that's kind of where I was and everything's always evolving. You know, we'd have this conversation next year, I'm probably going to be somewhere completely different in my thought process too, for sure.

Marvin Cash: Got it. So the T-Bone really was solving the action problem that the gummy didn't have, but I guess was the Game Changer - that persistent undulation that you wanted, was that really the problem you were trying to solve with the Game Changer?

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, having that swimming action that you get with swim baits and soft plastics and having that realism. So I was able to get realism with the gummy. You know, I can match the hatch. I mean that's the trout angler in me. You know, profile, silhouette, color, all that stuff. I had all that with the gummy, but I didn't have the movement.

And so for me, I didn't care what you're throwing. I mean with anything. I mean if you're acting non mechanical in movement and struggling, I mean that is a big trigger for any predator. I don't care if you're an animal in the Serengeti or whatever or anywhere. I mean if you act wounded or act jacked up, the predator, you're going to get that predator's attention because that's an easy meal.

So the more erratic movements that you get in a fly, especially streamer stuff, the more you're going to get the attention of a predator. So the soft plastics proved all that right. So for me, my goal was I got to create a fly. I know I can get realism, but I've got to get a fly that's going to have that swimming action because the movement is what's going to get that fish to your offering in the first place. And then is it food? So if you can get them there, you've got half the problem solved at that point for any predator.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, that's really interesting. And you know, I guess what I would say too is, I mean, the Game Changers really, it's not a fly, it's a style.

Blane Chocklett: Right.

Marvin Cash: And it's exploded and become really universally applicable. Does that surprise you? Or do you think you kind of found that common trigger that all predatory fish want and you've kind of solved that riddle?

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, well, I mean, anybody that knows me knows I don't definitely want to ever come across as being cocky or boasting. And I had a lot of thought about calling it a Game Changer because, you know, I know that sounds very bold and sounds very cocky.

But for me, I called it that and we ended up sticking with it, even though I was like, I don't know if I want to call it that or not. But we stuck with it because it's a platform that can be used in all types of fly design. So it is a Game Changer in that sense because movement gets a fish to your offering and it shows in the critter designs.

And I'm doing now, I mean, you can imitate anything from an aquatic worm to a mayfly nymph, even dry fly stuff that I've got coming out soon. So I mean, I knew when I created this and then had Martin start making those shanks from Flymen Fishing Company that it was a true Game Changer in fly design because there's so many applications.

And that's why we've been very persistent about calling it a platform, because that's what it is. I mean, you can take your imagination and use this platform to create anything, almost.

Marvin Cash: That's awesome. And so is your creative energy right now focused on those kind of new prey species that you're developing on that Game Changer chassis? Is that kind of where the action is for Blane right now?

Blane Chocklett: It is. You know, I mean, I've had a lot of this in the hopper for seven, eight years. I mean, I've had these designs for a long time, but there's only so much time to do anything. And I actually tied a lot of these things a long time ago, but I just haven't had the opportunity to kind of move things forward.

And you know, like I said earlier, I'm not a great business person, so I've had some guidance from people that's like, we need to hold these back until you get all this other stuff done. I was like, yeah, but I'm more into the fishing and getting things out there.

And like Lefty and all these great people I've been able to be mentored through is sharing your knowledge. And then you see stuff on the Internet where people are playing around with your platform and then you start getting closer to some stuff that you've created. So I'm like, I better get this out there before somebody starts thinking I'm stealing from them, right.

So it's like I'm telling people, I know you want me to wait on some of this stuff, but I'm going to get it out there because there's a lot of talented people out there. And for me, I've always taken pride in trying to be original. And it's not about just original, it's about me solving problems. I mean, that's where it always boils down to. I don't just want to create a fly just to say, hey, I got a new pattern. It's got to have a purpose.

And in these, that platform obviously can be adapted to any type of fishery that anybody may be fishing for. I don't care if it's permit or if it's bluegill. I mean, there's times where any body of water where fish can be super picky, and movement sometimes is that extra trigger that's going to cause those fish to eat.

And I could tell you if anybody has ever observed aquatic insects in the water, they're anything but still. I mean, even the smallest midge larva, they wiggle like nonstop. I mean, it's like they're on drugs. So I mean, all these aquatic bugs are moving, and adding that into your fly pattern can't do anything but help you.

And we have a lot of footage that's going to be released soon of the bugs in the water moving, but also how fish react to them. You know, I had a trip yesterday using some of these Game Changer crayfish. And we were fishing and getting some fish here and there, but we switched to that and this particular fly has more of a porpoising swim.

And that - which is basically how shrimp and crayfish, when they're fleeing, will have that kind of porpoising kick. And having that action and then having to fall and splay out. I mean, we were - it was almost being a kid again. We were laughing and giddy, you know, it was just. And that's kind of what it's all about, right. I mean, just for me, that's what it always will be.

Going back to the Jackson and having that aha moment. It's like, it's all about fly design, man. It really is. I mean, you got to get the fly there, but the fly is the most important part of this whole process that we go through in fly fishing, period. Or fishing in general.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, that's awesome. It's all about solving the riddle.

Blane Chocklett: Yep, all about it.

Marvin Cash: So you mentioned earlier in the interview about what a great teacher failure is. And that's a really hard concept for people to embrace because we're always pushed to never make a mistake. So how did you find that? And how are you comfortable taking that approach?

Blane Chocklett: I always say I'm a shit show anyway, so I'm always driving that struggle bus. I mean, anybody that knows me too, they know that I always say smart I ain't, you know. But dude, I have done nothing but fail in my life. And I can't imagine that a whole lot of people are that much different. I mean, that's - we're all human, right.

So failure is a big part of life. And overcoming those failures and I guess growing in them and learning from them, I mean, that's where I guess evolution comes in too, is like the ones that learn keep living. The ones that don't end up dying early, right. So whether you're a person or an animal, so taking all that stuff, I mean, I just embrace it.

I mean, there's a lot of - I guess you could kind of look at it in this way. I mean, you know, if everybody's perfect, it would be a boring world. You know, I'm always - I have no problem making fun of myself because I've definitely - you can ask my wife. She always lets me know where my mistakes are.

But that's part of it. I mean, if you look at my man room or my tying desk, it's definitely not neat. And when Lefty invited me and my wife up to his house, I mean his place is immaculate. But he also knew who I was and he's been around enough artistic people that he just had me down to a T. He's like, I bet your deal looks like this, this, this and this. My wife was dying.

And he goes, well, I'm gonna give you these life lessons and I'm gonna try to help you, but that's it. And Lefty bent over backwards to help me. But I think I don't think I can be helped as far as organization goes. You know, it's just part of being, I think that artistic side of my brain, you know, it's just the way it is and failure is a big part of that.

And I think it's a lot of it's from not being organized, you know, and maybe one day I will finally get there, but I don't think I'm gonna change that much. Just not going to happen.

Marvin Cash: It's always, I mean, self awareness is a great thing, right?

Blane Chocklett: Oh yeah, I know I definitely have my limitations and that's - I do have a tendency sometimes to learn from people. You know, obviously they - someone told me, I can't remember who, it was a long, long time ago - work smarter, not harder. And I've definitely liked that idea. Obviously that's why I chose fishing for a living because I did some side jobs and realized that this sucks. I want to - this is work. I don't want to work my life. You know, I want to enjoy my life.

And it may not be monetary, but I have a treasure full of life experiences. You know, money makes life easier, but it's not everything. Obviously. I have so many clients that do well in life and envy the fact that I'm out here on the water every day. But it's a double edged sword. I mean financially, they don't necessarily have to worry about, hey, my lights going to be staying on this month or my phone going to be cut off.

You know that happens sometimes. As a fishing guide, you have these bad fishing - I mean especially in the environment nowadays, man, you get a month or so of bad weather and can't fish. I mean, you're talking to your banker, like, well, give me another week. You know, that happens. That's just a part of it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, but it's important. I mean, you know, I see this over and over again, not just in fly fishing, but in all sorts of things in life that people that are truly successful follow their passion and everything kind of falls into place for them.

Blane Chocklett: Right.

Marvin Cash: And it's interesting too, because we've talked, you know, when we fished and been around each other at shows about the fact that we're in our 40s and you've been around the industry for a while and you talked a little bit about Lefty. But can you tell us a little bit about some of the special mentors? You know, I know Lefty's one of them, certainly, but some of those people that have, as you look back over 46 years of being around that have really super impacted you in the fly fishing world.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, I mean, obviously Lefty's probably at the forefront of all that. I mean, calling him the Godfather. And that's truly what he is and was. I mean, he's helped so many people. I mean, the fishing, not just fly fishing industry, but the fishing industry in general owes a whole lot to Lefty. I mean, he's been - a lot of people don't realize how much he was involved in a lot of things that's come to be in the fishing industry in general, but especially in the fly.

I mean, he's helped obviously help promote the saltwater side of the sport. But people like Larry Dahlberg, who I was introduced to through a friend of ours, Jake Jordan, who I was introduced to Jake Jordan from Brian and Sarah, Brian Horsley and Sarah Gardner, who are people I met in the industry as an early age. The first person I ever saltwater fly fished with was Brian Horsley on the Outer Banks. You know, that was back in, I think around '94, '95, something like that.

And those people kind of took me out, showed me what was going on with that whole experience and getting to see how some false albacore feed, you know, and that whole Gummy Minnow deal.

But Bob Popovics has been nothing but a good friend, you know. And that's the other thing about not only their mentors, but they end up being close friends. And Bob Popovics has definitely been that. I mean, you know, back around - I'm sorry. '98 to 2000 is when the gummy came to be.

And I had tied all these flies. I probably had a hundred of them. And I took them down to Harker's Island Cape Lookout for the false albacore fishing. Back then it used to be really good mid October. And since then it's changed due to weather patterns and whatnot.

But Tom Earnhardt would always put on a party, pig picking party. And everybody in the industry that was anybody would go, it was amazing. You see Jerry Seam there from Sage. You'd see all the different editors for all the big magazines that would be there. Not just fly, but the standard magazines like Field and Stream. All these editors would be there and it would be five or six hundred people at this party. At times it seemed that way, maybe not that many, but it was a lot.

And I had tied these flies over the past few months and I was guiding for smallmouth and hadn't even fished them yet. But I wanted - because I was kind of like, not sure how people would accept it, being that it was plastics and stuff. But I was piecing it and tying it in, doing all these different things. So to me it was more of a fly than actual plastic was.

But I knew going down there that if anybody would understand it, it would be Bob. And so the first person that I was looking for when I got down there was Bob Popovics. And he didn't know me from Adam then. You know, I'd met him at a show, but I was like, he's not gonna remember me.

But I went straight to him and I said, Bob, I'd like to talk to you about something, if you don't mind. And being Bob, he had no problem taking the time to talk to me. And I was like, I have this fly that I would really like for you to let me know what you think. He said, sure.

So I pull them out, I had a big bag of them, and he's like, man, these are really, really cool. He goes, how are you doing it? So I explained to him what I was doing. And he's like, what do you think it's a fly? He goes, yes, I do. You know, and I knew he would know because he kind of went through the whole epoxy thing. And I know he got some grief for that.

And also he goes, I tell you what, he goes, I want you to stand here, wait for me for a second. So I'm sitting outside waiting 10, 15 minutes goes by, and he finally comes back. He goes, hey, I want you to meet somebody.

So Bob takes me through this crowd of people, and it's like - it's like - I remember it like it's yesterday. It's like the water parks and we're going through this thing. And in the center of all these people is Lefty, and he's smiling and joking, and everybody's around him.

And Bob introduced me to him, and I'd met Lefty, too, before, but he didn't remember. But he goes, are these your flies? And I'm like, yep. And he goes, man, these are incredible. He goes, these are going to be really good. How do they work? And I'm like, I haven't fished them yet. He goes, typical Lefty. You know, he always had a joke saying something about it. I think it was some - that whole wine in the jail cell joke that everybody's always heard. So I remember him saying that.

And he goes, would you mind if I have some? I'm like, are you kidding me? You know, so I was like, I'd made a bunch to give to Lefty, or not actually expecting it, but I gave - I tied a bunch to give to Brian and Sarah because I knew them and I wanted them to use them.

But Lefty being Lefty, you know, he said, you know, I would love to take these. And I gave him probably a dozen or two dozen. And he took them. And then he goes, I really am impressed with these. And I really - he goes, you know who Umpqua Feather Merchants is? And I was like, yes. I said, I actually have a pattern with them now. And he goes, well, that's great. Didn't say anything else. And we talked a little bit here and there, and then I didn't want to bother him.

But the next morning, Brian and Sarah, as we're running out, I was running out with somebody. I think it was Bill Dawson and somebody else. But we were running out. We were a little late. But on the radio down there, everybody's talking back and forth on the stations. And I just remember Brian being on the radio, somebody asking him, what are you guys doing? And they were just crushing fish. And he goes, oh, we're using those rubber flies of Blane's. At the time, people were calling them the condom fly and everything else. And like, yeah, that's great. I mean.

So Brian and Sarah were the first people to actually catch fish on that. But getting back to the story, two days later, that was on a Saturday. Two days later, I get a phone call when I got off the water from my wife, and she said, I just got a phone call from the buyer at Umpqua Feather Merchants, who was Bruce Olson. And he wants you to call him.

So I called him and he said, hey, Blane, it's Bruce. And I'm like, hey, how are you doing? He goes, well, I'm doing great and I'm doing really good because I'm sitting here looking at this fly of yours that Lefty sent me. And he goes, you know, usually the process with getting a fly is you have to submit it. You have to go through a judging process. And he goes, we want this fly tomorrow.

And he said, you know, Lefty called us and said, we got to have it. And he actually hadn't put it in his hands yet. And he said, this is a done deal. Just send me the samples. We're going to get it started.

So someone like Lefty getting my career started and Bob Popovics supporting me through it, you know, and then having people like Clouser and then later, you know, I'm just now getting to know Flip Pallot better. You know, I'm leaving in two days to go hang out with him and actually telling a story about Lefty. The fly fishing museum's doing a film on Lefty. And I think Flip's going to be narrating and kind of telling the life story of Lefty. So that's going to be pretty awesome to be a part of that.

But you know, and then later here recently being able to hang out with Dahlberg, I mean, not taking anything away from all these other legends, but Larry is a different level. He is the fishiest person I've ever met. I mean, who goes to the extent of sticking a thermometer up a fish's you-know-what to see what their internal temperature is related to the water around them, to see what the optimal temperature is for that predator to feed. Right. I mean, this was based on musky.

So that right there is stuff that's just off the charts. And I mean he opened my eyes to realize that I don't know anything and I want to become that, you know. So he doesn't fly fish as much as he used to. And it's basically because he knew that there wasn't - not that he didn't love it because he started fly fishing and loved it and still does. But he knew that the conventional side is where the money was and he needed to support a family, and that's where he went.

But if anybody ever watched the shows, he always had a segment where he had a little bit of fly involved in it. But those people, I mean, especially, like I said, getting back to that, watching that stuff when I was - we didn't have cable because I lived in the mountains, like I said. And so my grandmother on my mom's side, like I said, my grandfather passed away before I was born, but she had cable because she lived in town.

And on Friday nights, you know, if I didn't have anything going on or after a date or whatever, I would go stay the night with her on Friday night. So I get up and watch ESPN Saturday mornings and watch Larry and Flip. And watching those guys and seeing all the different places they were fishing and seeing all the fish they were targeting, not just with conventional, but on fly was like, man, this is where I want to be. I just got to figure out how to get there.

Marvin Cash: That's really awesome. And to kind of flip the question on you a little bit. You know, we've talked around this a bit. So you're about halfway through your fishing career. How do you want to be remembered and what do you want to be remembered for? Building on a legacy of all these great people that have taken an interest in you as you've developed?

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, well, you know, I made a statement when I was fishing with Larry one time. I really appreciate you guys letting me ride on your coattails. He immediately said, dude, you're not riding on our coattails. You're standing on the shoulders of people who came before you. And that stuck with me to this day.

And really, he's right, because everybody has learned from somebody. If you - I mean, look at Lefty. I mean, they just came out with that film that was Lefty's mentor, right. I mean, that whole thing. So there's all these people that's helped others. And that's kind of what I want to be known for, is I want to be the person just like Lefty's been.

You know, he's helped people and it's not selfish. And he gives his time and he wants people to succeed and he wants the sport to grow. I want to leave the sport better than it was when I started. That's kind of where my goal is.

Marvin Cash: Well, that's fantastic. And I can't let you go today without talking to you about your book. I know it's been a long time coming.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah.

Marvin Cash: So why don't you tell us a little bit about what it's about?

Blane Chocklett: Sure. I mean, that's another funny thing with Lefty. He actually got the book going for me when I was up there visiting him with my wife. He had set up a meeting, without me knowing, with Jay Nichols, who's my editor, and had a book - he had a book contract for me before I even knew I had a book in my body. And I left that lunch having a book contract.

Unfortunately, for Jay, he didn't realize what kind of mess he was getting into. So for me, anybody, I'm just, you know, I'm artistic and not organized, and I don't enjoy doing things that aren't fun. I mean, that's why school was not my favorite thing. I didn't want to do homework, and I definitely didn't want to study. But I was always studying aquatic entomology books or studying biology books for fish stuff. So anything that was into, I was all in.

Problem is with books, it's like going to the dentist. Nobody really wants to sit down and do it. So a couple years went by, and Jay's like, where are you on the book? I was like, no, I haven't gone anywhere. It's like, so Jay's finally like, you know, you got this contract with Stackpole Books. It's like, we got to get something going.

So Jay's so good at what he does. Best editor in the business by far. Not taking anything away from anybody else. He's really good. He's just so good. I mean, he's written so many books with the best in the industry. I mean, but I know him. I mean, I just don't want to say anything negative about anybody, but Jay has become one of my closest friends, basically because he's been spending the past seven years with me on this book.

And it's been a learning process for me. And Jay has this way of making you learn about yourself while you go through the process. And he also would make - he would make me come visit him, or he would book a cabin somewhere where we actually locked ourselves in the cabin for a couple days, so I would sit down and actually write the book. And he realized if he didn't capture me that I was never going to get it done.

And so I know I was very frustrating to him, but we've become close friends because of it. And you know, I wouldn't change that for the world. Hopefully he wouldn't either. But it made me understand what I was actually accomplishing. You know, before I was doing this book, I really was just kind of all over the place with designing. But he helped me understand where I was going and where I want to get to, which that in itself is a lot for someone like myself, you know, where I'm just kind of like, I'm all about right now and not always necessarily looking ahead.

So I want this book to be - I mean, obviously seven years into it, I want it to be a success. And Jay was going to make sure of that, or we weren't going to release it. And of course, Lefty, every time he would see me, he's like, how's the book going? He goes, you know, I could have written five books by now. He goes, I said, yeah, but this is going to be a good one. He goes, yeah, but you know what? You know, he taught me a lot too. Not just business stuff, but life stuff.

He's like, you know, you gotta be able to do this and make a living for your family. So you need to diversify, right. So you gotta be not only a photographer and a fly designer, you need to do this when this is not - like right now. I mean, with the past couple years with the rivers, I mean, everything's blown out all the time. So having these other avenues of what we call mailbox money is an important part of our lives. And it's becoming more and more important as I get older because I can't - I don't have any other options, man. They're going to bury me with oars in my arms, you know what I mean.

So which is - which I'm fine with. But the whole book, it is definitely a life journey for me. I mean, the Game Changer didn't come over a week of tying. I mean, it's been a process. You know, I designed that thing over probably 12 years ago now, but it's still evolving.

And that's what the book's going to be called. It's going to be called Game Changer. And we have a second one that's in the works. Because all the work that I have is more than one book and we can't put but so much in one. So we're basically going to break it up into baitfish patterns for the first one. And the second one is going to be a lot of the critters and other stuff. But we do have a little bit of the critter stuff in this book. Just to kind of, I guess, kind of be a preview, you know, kind of let people know what's to come.

But I mean, it's all evolving. I mean, I'm excited about it. You know, like I said, there's been such a learning curve for me while we've been writing this. And my thoughts five years ago are not even close to what my thoughts are now. I mean, I've learned so much about water flows and you know, like I said, not an engineer, but the way things, materials itself react, you know, with going through the whole progressions.

I mean, I have so many different variations of Game Changers, and a lot of it has to do with ambient light, water conditions, all these different things. And a lot of that has to - I've been learning about laminar flow versus turbulent flow, and all these different things have taught me how different fibers will react. And that's why I have so many different brushes that I use. And we talk about all that kind of stuff in the book.

And it also is going to be a lot like what we've just been talking about - my life progression and process and thought process of fly design and fishing techniques.

Marvin Cash: That's super cool. And it's coming out this fall.

Blane Chocklett: It is. Right now, October 1st is a release date, which probably will be released officially around IFTD. And I'm currently talking to a bunch of shops and clubs and gonna be doing a big, I guess big tour across the country all this the end of this year and next year. So I'm looking forward to getting out and meeting people and teaching them personally what my fly tying techniques and all that kind of stuff. You know, doesn't look like I'm gonna be fishing as much, but be talking about it anyway.

Marvin Cash: Well, we'll hope it rains a lot then.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, right.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. So I know you were saying that was the most fun thing you ever wanted to do. But what surprised you the most about the writing process and working with Jay?

Blane Chocklett: I would go back to that, learning more about myself and my thought process. I mean, Jay obviously, you know, he would kind of give you the template on how you should write it. You know, I mean, we all went through high school and school and taking English and all that, but sitting down and writing a book, I mean, he just gave me the template and said, you know, you do this, this and this and it's going to help you, I guess, narrow your thought process and get you there quicker.

So it taught me, he's taught me how to write, which, it's pretty amazing really. I mean, which helps too because it allows you, like Lefty said, it allows you to be a writer for magazines too. So you can help keep yourself in income when you don't have income in other areas, which is huge. Especially when you do - I mean, not everybody does this particular sport as a full time job. You know, there's very few really. You have your full time guides, but as a, like, I guess someone that guides and writes and tries to do some photography stuff, there's, it's not easy.

And anybody that's in this industry would tell you, I mean, you got to diversify and you got to try to figure out ways to keep the incomes coming in for sure, man. And the book is part of that process and I just hope people enjoy it. You know, that's the biggest thing. I mean, you have people that are definitely behind you and are anxious to see it, but you just hope you don't let them down in that whole process too. So that's a little scary as well. So hopefully everybody likes it.

Marvin Cash: Well, that's awesome. And so, you know, talking about having multiple ways to generate income. Have you got any other projects you're working on right now you want to share with our listeners?

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, you know, I've been very fortunate to be able to work with a lot of the top companies in our industry and you know, like TFO, been able to do rod designs with them and specifically for big flies, you know, with the whole ESOX series.

With the book release, a lot of the companies are coming on board to kind of help support that. You know, we're coming out with a limited Edition Game Changer Rod with TFO that I'm super excited about. And you know, some of the companies like Costa, they've supported me with like, the Game Changer hat and they're coming out with some T shirts that kind of match that in the fall. And all that stuff's going to be released around the book.

And you know, it's just - for me, it's a really special thing to be able to be in the industry and not only work with great companies, I mean, working now with Patagonia, who I've been a big fan of since I was a teenager. I've still got a pair of long underwear I had when I was in junior high school. And being able to work with them and help, you know, one - the conservation side of the sport, which gets overlooked.

But I think it's becoming more and more prominent with the whole Pebble Mine deal and all that stuff. I mean, this world's getting smaller and we gotta get on it and fix the problems. You know, I mean, trying to get into that whole thing. But my guiding's gotten harder over the past five years because everything's messed up all the time. And that can't be just coincidence.

You know, I mean, somebody told me a long time ago, we're the watchdogs of the water. Anglers are. I don't care if you're a guide or a fisherman, you see the problems before the most people see them. And I know, I mean, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of things going on in the world right now that aren't good for the environment, that's for sure.

But we also have the awareness that we're able to fight some of this stuff and correct it. And that whole thing with Costa and the Kick Plastic and Yeti being behind that and the whole industry getting behind it too, has been a big deal. And that, to me, it's not just getting sponsorships with companies. It's about being part of something. And I told that with Rick Poe, who was the first person to really take a chance on me and actually sponsor me. And all that has to do with Lefty and all my other people. People like Clouser and Flip and all this.

Marvin Cash: The joys of live recording folks.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, there you go. But yeah, I mean, just being able to - I want to - when the companies I do get to work with, I mean, it's not just to be a part of the company, I want to be a part of it. You know, I want to be able to give my two cents and I want to be a part of a family.

And that has been, and that to me is the most important part of anybody I work with in the industry. It's getting to know them, becoming friends and end up becoming family. I mean, that's the biggest thing. I mean, at the end of the day, it is business. But to me, you know, like I said, I'm not a business person. It's more about creating relationships and long lasting relationships. I'm not someone for quick - I want it to be for forever, really.

Marvin Cash: It's funny because it makes things harder, but I agree with you. There's no really other way to live and do things.

Blane Chocklett: Right.

Marvin Cash: So I know you're in the thick of guide season, but I also know you're always out giving presentations and talks. Do you have any upcoming appearances you want to share with our listeners? Maybe they can check you out.

Blane Chocklett: Yeah. So with the book release, it looks like I'm just putting it all together now. It looks like the first one I'm going to be at is at Schultz Outfitters in October. I think we're going to try to do it right before IFTD, and then IFTD, we're going to have the big book release there in Denver.

And then I'm going to be heading to Louisiana in October for the giant redfish deal and have a little bit of fishing and then it's all work. Then I'm heading up to, looks like I'm going to be doing a trip to Mad River Outfitters in Ohio up in Columbus, and then heading to Florida to do a Florida tour with Renzetti and some of the shops down there, and then talking with Gordy's in Houston. Probably do a Texas tour after that. And then I'd like to do the California tour. I got to talk with the clubs out there.

And then I'm sure I'll be back home guiding here and there in between. But looking forward - first off, Schultz and I are really good friends. Schultz Outfitters. And he's probably been the biggest backer of the Game Changer. And he's really helped me get the platform out there for people to really understand it. And he's just been a huge proponent of it, but he's also just been a buddy.

And we talked about when this book finally does drop, that he wanted to be the first involved because he's been - he always says, carrying me, right. So anyway, but that's where we plan on being, and I'm looking forward to all that stuff, so.

Marvin Cash: Well, that's fantastic. Well, Blane, why don't you let people know where they can find you so they can book you and fish with you or book you to come talk to their club or speak at their shop?

Blane Chocklett: Yeah, I do have a website, but that's not the place to get in touch with me. The best place to get in touch with me is probably off of social media, you know, blanechocklett fishing on Instagram or Blane Chocklett fishing on Facebook, or you can call me or email me at bchocklett@comcast.net or my phone number, 540-354-1774.

Marvin Cash: Well, that's awesome, Blane, and I really appreciate you carving some time out for this chat this afternoon. It's been a lot of fun.

Blane Chocklett: Oh, absolutely, man. Enjoyed it. Always fun fishing with you too.

Marvin Cash: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to that too. I got to get out and fish with you for smallies. Well, folks, I hope you really enjoyed this interview with Blane. It's his first ever podcast interview. I'm super honored that he decided to do that with me. If you liked the episode, it would be great if you could give us a review in iTunes. And please subscribe on the podcast of your choice. Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines.

Blane Chocklett: Thanks. You.