S1, Ep 97: All Things Smallmouth with Mike Schultz

Marvin Cash: Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. I can't believe that we're already at the end of 2019. This is our last interview of the year, and I'm really fortunate to have been able to spend some time with Mike Schultz, or as most people call him, Schultze of Schultz Outfitters.

We talked about how he got into the smallie game, his thoughts on targeting trophy bass and all things Schultz Outfitters. I hope you enjoy it. Before we move on to the interview, though, a couple housekeeping items. It would be great if you could give us a review and a rating in the podcatcher of your choice. Or even better, check out our mobile apps. We have an app for iOS and Android devices. All you have to do is go to the app store of your choice and search The Articulate Fly. It's free, and it's the best way to stay in touch with what we're doing at The Articulate Fly.

And, folks, however you celebrate this season, I wish you a happy and safe holiday season. So Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah and, of course, a happy and prosperous New Year to all of you. Now, on to our interview. Well, welcome to The Articulate Fly, Schultz. I'm glad to have you on.

Mike Schultz: Oh, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. And we have a tradition at The Articulate Fly. I have to always ask all of my guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Mike Schultz: Well, I thought about that, and I think it was just going to the fishing ground. I remember as a kid being in a boat and being on lakes and cruising around and looking off those weed beds and seeing pike and perch and small bass and whatnot while dad was running the motor and just kind of putzing. Those are some of the first that I can vividly remember. I remember seeing my first pike and seeing my first perch and all that stuff.

And then just the basics. Fishing around docks and catching small largemouth and doing the whole spring bluegill in the beds thing. Those are probably my earliest memories, shared with both my father and my grandfather.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it sounds pretty similar to how I grew up. I assume you started out fishing gear and then moved on to fly fishing later, correct?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, yeah, definitely. The early days were the old spin cast and the $20 Berkeley cherrywood pistol grip spin caster. And then eventually dad let me use the Cardinals and all the fancy Zebcos of those days and started using spinning rods and eventually graduated to bait casters and then fly fishing.

Marvin Cash: When did you move to the dark side of fly fishing?

Mike Schultz: That was teenage years. Definitely was introduced the way that a lot of kids and early anglers are getting into it in Michigan, getting used to that is through the migratory fish. So we have king salmon, cohos, and steelhead. And that was kind of my first introduction. That was in the mid-90s. I was playing hockey. I had a family that was into the indigenous. And one of my buddies on the team, his dad took us salmon fishing and in the spring he took us steelhead fishing and that kind of got it rolling.

And then around that time I tried to make my first fly cast. And then I would say I really got geeked out on it once I had the ability to drive and found smallmouth bass in the rivers where I grew up and the rest is history after that. It was fully infected.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it happens. Who are some of the folks that mentored you on your fly fishing journey to help you get to where you are today?

Mike Schultz: Well when I think of like a mentor, really outside of my parents and hockey coaches and whatnot, I really didn't have a fly fishing mentor that really kind of took me under their wing and showed me the ropes so to speak and all that stuff went down pre-Internet. So I didn't have the ability just to go online and look at things and look at videos and whatnot that wasn't there.

But I definitely gravitated towards the local, the closest fly shop to my parents' house, which was called Beaters Outdoors. And John Beater was the owner and he definitely threw some wood on the fire and stoked it up for me. And that kind of got me interested in fly fishing. And I remember the OLN television, watching that in high school and seeing Andy Mill and Bobby Knight and all those shows and whether it was trout fishing or saltwater fishing, that kind of was like whoa, this is sweet.

And John was the local fly shop guy. And he was the guy that I eventually just hung out there so much, and just started doing the things that he did around the house as a kid. Taking out the trash and wiping down the counters and straightening up and eventually took notice and I think my first several ways that I was compensated was through product and just hung out so much that eventually I was able to secure a low level position at the shop and work my way up from there.

But John was kind of the guy that was the local guy that kind of got it all started. But unfortunately I didn't get to spend a ton of years with him. But still a friend to this day and I definitely credit him for getting it rolling.

Marvin Cash: Very cool. And when did you get the fly tying bug?

Mike Schultz: Well that was before I fly fished so before I even threw a rod. I was always growing up, my mom would always say that I was the hunter and my brother was the fisherman. And for Christmas I'd get things camouflage and shotgun and a bow and all that kind of stuff when you're a kid growing up. And my brother would get the fish and stuff and my father's sister purchased a cheap fly tying vise. Your basic stuff. And my brother was like 8, 9 at the time. Maybe he'll like this. He likes fishing. And it just sat there and barely held hooks. It was one of those twenty, thirty dollar starter kits that came with all the crappy feathers and terrible tools.

And eventually I picked that up and started messing around with it, tinkering with it. And I think around 98, 99, somewhere around there, late 90s, Cabela's, the world's foremost opens up here in Michigan. And I remember going there the first day that it was open and so busy they're running golf carts in the parking lot and run you up to the thing. And I end up picking up some fly tying materials there to go with that vise and that kind of got it rolling.

I quickly found out that that wasn't going to be the end all be all vise and saved my pennies and went to the local fly shop which was Beaters and I think I got my first Renzetti Traveler around 99 and still have that vise today. But that's kind of how I got it rolling.

Marvin Cash: Do you remember the first fly you tied on that vise?

Mike Schultz: I think it came with some instructions for some old school wet flies, and it's like here, tie a scarlet ibis for your first fly. I don't know what it was but some married wing thing that I hacked together and probably caught a bluegill on it at some point but that was probably it. And then eventually woolly buggers and Woolly Bugger variants and what later became just the basic red eyed leech. Tying that silly thing up with dumbbell eyes that I hand painted and wrapping rabbit around a hook and going out and catching smallmouth.

Marvin Cash: Got it. And I know your patterns today are made by Fulling Mill and Orvis carries them. I was wondering if you could share with us kind of your design philosophy behind your flies.

Mike Schultz: Yeah, well, flies, it just starts with a problem and you're building something purpose built. So that's kind of where I started with it. I think there's of amazing flies on the market today that you can go get that are mass produced. But I think no matter what, you're eventually going to come to a point as a fly angler that you're going to quickly realize that you're not going to be able to get everything you need out of the bins.

So I'm tying flies that work for my water. Originally getting started, you want to go out and have a fly that just catches fish, and you're fishing for smallmouth bass, you're fishing dumbbell eyed flies, whether it's a leech or a sculpin or a crayfish and you eventually gravitate towards topwater flies, fishing poppers and that kind of stuff.

But a lot of the stuff that I think I have contributed I guess to fly tying is kind of that mid level stuff, the stuff that swims, so like a swinging D type platform, that type of fly is built for our rivers. If you ever have the opportunity to see any of the photos that are taken from drones on the water that we fish a lot, it's really woody and the fish sometimes are right in that wood. So fishing a fly that sinks at a rapid rate or doesn't have the ability to hang and suspend is going to quickly get hung up and you're going to lose flies and lose fish and blah blah blah.

So like those type of swim flies like Blane's brought to the table and the swing and D and stuff, that's all just we had a problem. We had to figure out ways to fish that type water and the flies that I fish and tie and I guess you could say carry my name through those companies are built for our waters. Having said that, you can get a template of those flies whether it's your basic leeches or sculpins or whatever, or even swimming bees. But eventually you're gonna have to tie your own because they're only going to come in one weight in one size and one or two or three color schemes.

So being able to tie is, it's hard to take a fly angler serious if they say they don't tie flies.

Marvin Cash: It makes a lot of sense. And were you self taught on the tying front, kind of like you were on the fly fishing front or did you have people that influenced your development as a tier?

Mike Schultz: Well, I got started in the late 90s so Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout came out I think in 98 or 99. And that local fly shop that I eventually got a job at, they would bring in tiers, well known tiers. So I remember going to Kelly Galloup's event when he was there. So he kind of caught my eye early. And then the natural progression from Galloup to Ross Madden who worked for Kelly and created the circus peanut and pretty much the template that Kelly's, most of Kelly's flies are built off of.

I found him through the Troutsman and again pre-Instagram, pre-Facebook, his friends were buddies with Mark Sedotti over on the east coast. So I remember the first time Mark came out to Michigan and I got to meet him and see his crazy designs and dubbing techniques and the use of non conventional fly tying materials and a lot of his flies.

You got to tip your hat to guys like Larry Dahlberg. I remember as a kid watching In-Fisherman and seeing Larry being the fly guy on there and the shape of his Dahlberg diver head influenced the swinging D head and I get to work alongside Greg Senyo on a regular basis. He works for me three, four days a week. And then of course, Blane, I mean, I met Blane about eight, ten years ago now.

He's influenced so many. And I've just been fortunate in my travels and my location here in the upper Midwest, being from Michigan to be exposed to some of these great, not only fly tiers, but guys that are true innovators. Not just taking stuff that's been done before and using new materials on it, guys that actually paved the way and do things their way. And I've just been lucky over the years. Got to travel a lot and meet these guys and hang out with them and call those guys friends and just totally influenced the way that I sit down at the vise and approach things with just bits of information that I've gathered from them over the years.

Marvin Cash: That's really neat. When did you become obsessed with catching smallmouth?

Mike Schultz: Well, like I said, I started the salmon steelhead thing and quickly realized what am I going to do with, how am I going to keep this rolling? Those fish aren't around year round, so to speak. So I live, I actually grew up, I've lived in the same watershed my whole life, which is totally crazy. I went to school right by the shop, and I live within the Huron River watershed. So we do have steelhead at the lower end of the river, but the river has smallmouth bass in it.

So what do you do when you're young and you don't have any money and you got a crappy car and you can't just drive four hours and go fishing for salmon, steelhead and trout all the time. You got to kind of make do. And my personality isn't such that I can just go, oh, I'm gonna go fishing that one time this month and go up north for a few days. I gotta have it all the time. So I quickly gravitated to the closest moving water that I could find, which, fast forward many years and you're fishing and learning on the same water, like the same piece of water that the shop is on.

So, yeah, buddy, get you one of those. Here you go. Here's a feather. We're sitting at the fly tying. Dylan is here in the room.

Marvin Cash: He's our special guest. He's a special guest.

Mike Schultz: Say hi, Dylan. Okay, go watch the movie. I'll be right back. Okay. In a few minutes. Sorry about that.

Marvin Cash: Oh, not a problem at all.

Mike Schultz: Where were we? Also smallmouth. So we'll rewind a little bit. So I quickly gravitated towards the closest moving water that I could find, and that happens to be the Huron River. And fast forward a few years and poof, I got a river. I got a fly shop right on that stretch of river. And I vividly remember sitting on the island that's right outside the window, the street shop, and breaking my first fly rod and learning the basics out there.

And that stretch of river still to this day has a good number of fish. There isn't a lot of large fish. But what that gave me the opportunity to do was was have immediate success, and go out and get the basics down. From stripping the fly to setting the hook. In those early years, you're always putting the line on the reel. Just little things that you're learning the basics.

So the Huron River is kind of where I started with smallmouth and where I still find myself today. I live a quarter mile away from it. And that kind of got me rolling. And that was the centerpiece of our operation is the river that I learned on and then we expanded out from there.

Marvin Cash: That's neat. How long did it take you to feel like you had smallies dialed in?

Mike Schultz: No, I still don't. But a long time. Yeah, it's you go through a lot of different phases with it and trial and error and trying different things and reading books and articles and all that stuff. And the early years, like, even when I was working at the first fly shop, second fly shop, third fly shop, there really wasn't a lot of stuff for bass fishing when it came to equipment. So lines and flies and that kind of stuff. So you're kind of making do with what you could find, Harry Murray's book and some of the stuff that Clouser was doing back then and whatnot and kind of building off that.

But it's a process. But I felt I had a fairly solid foundation when I opened the shop, which was in 2011. I had a good following of clients that would fish with me on a yearly basis and knew enough to be dangerous. But over the last eight years, it's really taken off and I couldn't have done it without the help of our team, and that's the biggest thing. Having a crew of anglers who really buy into the system and stick to the program and share knowledge and real time information is what really took it, made it take off and go to the next level.

So with that, we had our seasons change in Michigan. So we had a season that went from the last Saturday in May to December 31, and then a few years later, it went from the last Saturday in April to December 31st. And then five years later, six years later, it went to year round. So it really helped us dial in the early season stuff when the water's a lot colder. And then eventually that early season success and what we were learning there gave us confidence to push it later into the season.

So like, you're just building on it. Everything. There's so many programs and different things within, we call it seasons within a season within a season. And you just got to break it down and focus on that stuff. So what we were able to do is we were able to identify those things, kind of come up with a hit list and kind of work our way through it and together sharing knowledge and having guys that could row well and understood angles of approach and stuff, which I'm sure we'll get into, really helped take it off.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I think most anglers really don't appreciate the value of having that network of guides that are fishing the same days on different watersheds, to be able to compare notes and how quickly that helps manage the pressure, but also to just learn about the species and learn about the watershed.

Mike Schultz: Definitely, definitely now, and getting real information that's truthful and whatnot is hard to do. So if you can build that crew, that's gonna, together you're better.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, got it. And I know, for example, there are differences among different species. A largemouth depending on where you are in the United States. Are there any things that are unique about upper Midwest smallmouth bass?

Mike Schultz: Well, I would say I spend most of my time, like, pretty much all my time fishing Michigan, a little bit in Wisconsin, and then I've dabbled a little bit over in Minnesota. So we're in southern Michigan where we're located, and there's tremendous fisheries here. There's amazing fishers in the Upper Peninsula, upper Wisconsin, Minnesota. There's so much cool stuff to do.

And there's definitely a difference amongst those watersheds with what we're dealing with down here. I would say we're. Our fish don't migrate as much as, say, those fish further north. That's one thing, but I would say the biggest thing if you compare it to the rest of the country and down south is what we're finding is our fish will still continue to, they're catchable even in really cold water.

So yesterday it was 37. And we're hooking fish that are fighting way harder than spring fish and they're just fat. So I think our fish, what we're finding up here is, they're not migrating as much as you'd see, like up where my buddy Will guides or Dollbirds at up in Minnesota, these fish are staying put. So you have the ability to fish to those fish until the rivers completely ice up and they're going to be in a similar area to where they're going to be in the spring.

So I just. Our fish are hardy. Like, I think people talk about down south, saying, like, oh, they really shut down, I think those fish may move a little bit. I think there's not a lot of information out there on it. So unless you're willing to go out, go out and put the time in, they're going to be hard to catch in the colder weather and the colder water, I should say.

But, yeah, fish are just hardy. Man, the upper Midwest fish are tough. They're native, they're wild, and they're tough to beat.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, I would imagine, too, kind of in the south that people have other species to fish for during that time, so they don't really feel terribly tempted to figure the smallmouth in the winter game out because they want to go fish for musky or go do something else.

Mike Schultz: Yeah, exactly. No doubt, no doubt. There's variety of the spice of life.

Marvin Cash: So I know you specialize in targeting trophy smallmouth and I was curious about, because my experience fishing for smallmouth has been that if they're eating, the small ones are just fearless, they'll chase a big streamer. So how do you change your approach to fishing so that you kind of increase the percentage of trophy fish that you're putting in the boat versus catching a bunch of dinkers and you get two or three nice fish?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Well, I mean, everything changes, everything changes. So from your preparation to your focus to your scouting. People usually associate that with hunting, but that's something I associate with fishing too. Understanding the CFS cubic feet per second, the water volume and how it affects said river, understanding water temps, seasonal movements of your fish, everything down to the choice of equipment.

So it's just like the guy that is super nerdy and geeked out on hunting that one giant whitetail with his bow. It's the same thing when it comes to trophy bass fishing, if you're, I don't like to call it that, but it is what it is. We're going, we're trying to catch the biggest, most mature, oldest fish in the system. That's what I enjoy doing. Don't get me wrong, I'll go down the river and catch a bunch of fish with my kids and have a good time. And there are clients that like to do that. But my main focus, if you're coming to fish with me, is, most guys are going to come here, anglers are going to come here to catch the biggest fish.

So I may not be choosing my water on numbers. I'm choosing it on size and a lot of the early season big fish hunting stuff I'd like, I prefer to do and a lot of people do as a single angler, which allows me to position the boat and such that a back guy would a lot of times be shut out of a casting angle. So the whole thing changes how you do it, how you approach them on the river, what river you choose, due to light levels that day or flows or whatever. I mean, it's a totally different program than just going out and catching.

You don't go out and our waters and put a high number of fish over 20 inches in the boat. Just going down the river and flapping flies around and playing a numbers game just doesn't happen.

Marvin Cash: It makes a lot of sense. How has that shift to targeting trophy smallmouth affected your fly design?

Mike Schultz: Every river, every situation has its own set of flies. So over the years we developed a set of flies for each season, each specific program. Even down to flies for specific rivers or even specific sections of rivers. We guide six different rivers in southern Michigan. And each one of them is unique in its own right. And some of them are high numbers of fish, lower numbers of what we would consider a trophy fish, say, 20 inches or better. And some of them are low density, but the opportunity of a really large fish is there.

So different forage. Some rivers have a lot of baitfish. Other rivers have a lot of frogs. So how you're going to target that fish is the intimate knowledge of what that fish is eating. Now, I don't get totally nerdy about it to where I'm going trout style and matching it that close. But knowing what they're eating at a given time is fairly important. And that type of information is only gained by time on the water.

So fly design, fly choice for that given day is all just pretty much in my head and it's all from past experience of how I'm going to approach it.

Marvin Cash: No, it makes a lot of sense. Do you mind sharing your favorite patterns for smallmouth?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, I mean, if it was me fishing, I'd be fishing hair frogs. I really enjoy fishing, like Dahlberg-style head hair frogs, swimming frogs, or swim flies. So I'm all about seeing the fish react to the fly and ultimately eat it. I think that is one of the coolest aspect or traits of a smallmouth bass is just how they'll pursue the fly, they'll eat the fly. It's a very visual thing. And being able to, if I can't see him eat it, it's not as fun. So really enjoy that part of the game.

So fish and flies, people take note of what I'm fishing. If they're looking at Instagram, or whatever and seeing the flies in the fish's mouth. You see a lot of light colored flies especially when it comes to when I'm personally fishing. So I like white flies is the base for most of my patterns when it comes to swim flies and stuff that I enjoy fishing. So seeing the eat is huge and those swim flies will give you that. And then of course hair frogs, the way that a smallmouth bass absolutely annihilates a hair frog is something to be seen and something that is highly addicting. And I really really like those two flies.

And then I guess the other thing that I would throw in there would be one program that we've put a lot of time into. Myself and my head guide at the shop, James Hughes is terrestrial fishing. And I'm and we're talking like totally low clear water sight-fishing, not making a cast unless you see a fish sight-fishing. So I really enjoy that fishing those terrestrials and coming up with cool little ways to tie them and seeing the fish eat the fly and reject the fly and everything that they do when they're in that super low clear water environment. I'd say those are my three favorite ways to target them right now is hair frogs, swim flies and then doing the super finesse light tippet, 6-weight terrestrial game.

Marvin Cash: Very neat. And you mentioned this earlier in the interview talking about the importance of angle of approach and how important it was to have someone that could can row a boat. What do you mean by that?

Mike Schultz: Well if you fish with myself or one of our guides you'll quickly see that our rivers are fairly small. CFS wise summertime they could be running as low as a hundred. In the spring they might get up to fishable level around 2000. So relatively shallow by most standards. Some of them get crystal clear.

So when you're fishing these rivers your fly most, more times than not, is not tracking at a great distance. You're not just hawking a fly out as far as you can cast it and retrieving it. The river bottom is made, it's little buckets and dips and some sections could be, we could define as holes. But usually a fish that's laid up in a hole isn't going to be a fish that's going to be necessarily eating aggressively.

So having someone on the sticks, it's a really good rower. And then religiously keeping the fly out front of the boat. So just general terms, roughly a 45 degree angle off the left or the right side of the boat. Fishing downstream guide boat. The oarsman is positioning the boat in a fashion that's going to allow you to swim the fly or fish a dredge fly or fish a frog on that angle and other reasons. It's one, it's stealthy. You're casting, you're not casting the flyline off over the fish. You're casting on a 45 down.

The way that a smallmouth bass eats the fly is going to be, you're going to get a much better hookup as the fish comes up, eats the fly and turns on it. Once the fish is hooked, once the fish eats, more times than not that fish is going to go downstream or it's our fish usually will go away from the bank and come out front of the boat. So you're never going to have slack. So if you're off the side of the boat and you set the hook and the fish comes at you or goes to the middle of, goes to the middle, it's going to create slack and you're going to be doing the full John Travolta hook set with the Saturday night fever strip. Where you just got the rod over your head going crazy.

Where the fish is, the fish is out front, it eats the fly, it comes across, everything's tight. You're getting a positive hook set. Oarsman's able to maybe hit the oars a couple times to make sure that hook is buried in that fish and then it's on. So doesn't matter if you're, like I said, if you're fishing terrestrials or you're fishing swinging bees, where the head of that fly is designed to come in on that angle to give you the ultimate side to side, wounded baitfish swim. Same thing with a lot of the Blane's changer flies. They're going to fish really well that way.

In colder water, you're not necessarily bringing the fly back to the boat as you're walking that fly back or you're dancing that fly back in front of that log jam. If you're fishing on that 45 degree angle between yourself and the oarsman is able to control that fly and keep it moving on tension and suspending in the zone versus swinging way out and quickly. Less water on or less line on the water you're in. More control the fly. So if it's out on a 45, you're not going to have that big belly in the line ripping it out, and you're keeping it in the zone.

When the water is really high in the spring, you're going to have log jams that are creating seams and bubble lines coming off these jams. And what you'll find is those fish will be way back in the told, dead water. We call it couch water. And eventually as the water tends warm, they're going to move their way to that seam. And you're able to keep that fly on a 45 degree angle and keep it in the zone or walk it across. It's just a better, a better mousetrap for the smallmouth bass and the way they eat, sure, you'll be able to get them to eat off the side of the boat, casting upstream and bringing it down. But the hook set and your hookup ratio is going to decrease, the further you start working your way off to the side of the boat or upstream. So just the way they eat, different style mouth. It's not a brown trout. They're not a grabber, they're an inhaler.

Marvin Cash: Got it. And is that type of presentation issue kind of the most common mistake you think anglers make fishing for smallmouth, or is there something else that's you see more often?

Mike Schultz: I see that, I definitely see that. We don't see a lot of boats on our rivers. Other people fishing, just doesn't happen. But when I do, I see repeated. I see the wrong angles a lot. Fishing too fast, the oars, the person on the oars makes or breaks the day. Right. So if your buddy's lazy on the oars and you're just floating around moving too fast, good luck. It's just not gonna happen. So doesn't matter if you're fishing for trout fishing, musky fishing for smallmouth. It's a team effort.

And I think the speed in which the boat is moving, the choice of water, with our fish on our rivers, with exception to a few of the higher number, higher density rivers. When it comes to fish population, 99% of the fish are in 1% of the water. So finding that 1% and fishing it effectively is huge.

Guys use too light a gear. If, like I use 7 and 8-weights pretty much all the time. Maybe it dropped down to a 6-weight for that terrestrial game. But we first started doing this, see a lot of guys just using their trout gear to go out and try to try to do this and wonder why they're not catching big fish and whatnot. So yeah, you just gotta, it's a totally different animal and you gotta think of a bass as a bass, not a bass as a trout. And if you really want to do it and get the job done, everyone's got to be on board.

Marvin Cash: No, it makes a lot of sense. That's why I almost always hire guides when I fish from drift boats. Because generally the buddy thing doesn't always work out terribly well.

Mike Schultz: No, no, I agree. Can't really. You can't go.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, exactly. It's. And I've had some of my worst arguments on the water about that particular issue. So just easier to hire a professional. You've spent your entire adult life around fly shops and guiding. What drew you into the fly fishing life?

Mike Schultz: Well, for me personally, from an early age, I've always had that kind of entrepreneurial spirit. When I was a young kid, I'd make things and sell them at school, school and flip things and trade and just hustle on whatever I was doing. So whatever it took to make a little bit of extra money and get that thing that I wanted, I was always doing that. And I like to do things my way. So I remember being a little kid into sports cards and I'd always tell the guy at the card shop that I'm gonna own a card shop when I get older. And then it was skateboarding and all the things you did as a kid. He's like on a skate shop, blah, blah, blah. So I kind of always knew that I was going to go into business of some sort. I always wanted to just kind of do things my way and be my own boss, so to speak.

So yeah, I just got into the fishing, got infected with it. And when I first started around here in southeast Michigan, metro Detroit, roughly, there was a lot of different stores and you could go get high end gear at, let's just say 10 or more stores. It was kind of coming off that the movie era, mid-90s, late-90s. So there was a lot of shops around and I worked for a few of them and I always just thought, man, I had all these great, what I thought were great ideas at the time and just always wanted to do it. And I just look around and you'd see those shops and it was all second careers, corporate refugees, owners would not a lot. The gas tank was already half empty, and there was really no extra drive to go above and beyond the norm.

So I always thought that I could do it better. I had the confidence to do it better and started out with guiding and took it from guiding to taking my clients that I guided on destination travel trips and then eventually opened the shop. So it was definitely a process. Nothing came quick and pushing 20 years in the industry and nothing happens fast and fly fishing, that's for sure.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. What was the specific trigger that made you make the jump from working and guiding for a shop to opening Schultz Outfitters?

Mike Schultz: I just, a future, I just knew that there's obviously not a ton of money in the fishing industry, so I could row a boat and do that for the rest of my life and be a little banged up and the guide life is. It's fun when you're young, but I don't. I definitely couldn't do it for a full career. So I kind of knew that was working against me and I wanted to have a wife and a family. Just kind of look at it as I'm good at this and I got the confidence to grow it and I'll assemble a team and land it that way. So, yeah, it was a long, long process. A lot of blood, sweat and tears, as they say. But it all worked out. It's growing, it continues to grow. We got a great squad and keep grinding.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting too, because you've got a really successful store and so many people struggle in the fly shop game. What do you think it. You need to be successful as a shop owner?

Mike Schultz: Being original, it's being original. Blazing your own trail, all the cliches. The golden rule, man, I mean, you just got to treat other people like you want to be treated and do cool stuff. Build a team. There's a, I think there's a lot of turnover in shops with employees. We've been able to hang on to all the good ones and the guys, guys bought into the system and it's a, it's a team over an I type atmosphere always. And it starts at the top and goes all the way down to the new guys, and how we hire and the type of people that we hire.

So I think there's a lot of, there's, it's a small piece of the piece and I don't think I would have the guts to go into an established region and buy or open a fly shop. There's just a lot of areas are saturated. So like I said, the piece of the pie is only so big. So I'm fortunate to grow up in this area. I looked at what other shops were doing as when I was younger and everybody was pushing the trout game and it seemed to me at a young age that like, they're trying to sell trout stuff to people that are going to the Au Sable or the Manistee or the Pere Marquette. And there's plenty of shops up there that know the rivers way better than they do. And it just, right in our backyard, we had awesome smallmouth fishing. We had pike, we got carp. We got Lake St. Clair, we got the lower Detroit River. There's so much cool stuff to do around here and just able to kind of harness that and see an opportunity and put in the time and eventually get a crew, which we talked about and we were able to continue to build it.

And it's still growing every year and just having a great time doing it and just loving what you do, man. It's all about loving what you do and having a good time. And like I said, you're just not gonna, you're not gonna work a day in your life. You love what you do. And I definitely work. But the outcome is definitely worth the effort. And that's just it, man. Just keep grinding and doing cool stuff and innovating and listening to people and seeing what works and what doesn't work and taking shots. Taking chances. That's it. Taking chances.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And it's interesting too, because from talking to you, it sounds that a lot of your sports background growing up taught you a lot about team sports and leadership, too. It sounds like that's a huge part of what you've been able to channel to make Schultz Outfitter so successful.

Mike Schultz: Definitely, definitely, definitely. No, the team environment, just, I couldn't do without those guys. Just my name on the door. But it's all of us pitching in to make it all happen.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And for folks that haven't had a chance to visit the shop, what would a customer offer should they expect when they walk in the doors of Schultz Outfitters?

Mike Schultz: Friendly environment, low pressure sales. I always tell customers like, we make suggestions, we make recommendations. If you want to take, take advantage of it and buy, that's your call. Just rock solid people that work for us. Super knowledgeable. If the guy that's working with you doesn't know, he'll quickly find someone within the building that does know. They're not, you're not going to get much, you're not going to get any BS from these guys. They're going to shoot you straight again. That's a hiring process, and firing the right people and training them properly. But you're always going to walk out with something in a shop might not be products, but I always tell the guys, everyone walks out with confidence when they leave here.

So you don't always have to ask the right questions, but feel free to ask questions. Our staff kind of has, like I said, everyone knows what's up, but if they don't, they'll go, they'll go find the answer for you. And I always joke, it's like, we'll give you everything except our car, shuttle drivers numbers and where we're putting in and taking out on that given day. We're going to give you the right line, the right leader, the right flies. We're going to tell you exactly how to fish it, what to look for. So I think that's something, in the old school fly shop, it, you had to buy that. You know what I'm saying? You had to buy that. And we don't really play that game. We just. We give you the information, set you up for success. Confidence is always free.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, no, that's a really important point because, I mean, to your point, I think not only in. In the old system, you had to buy it, but there were gradations of buying it too. Right. It's just like creeping disclosure based upon how much money you spent in the shop. But. And I think that's a. I mean, I think that's been a huge impediment to growing our sport. So I think it's really great that you have.

Mike Schultz: I agree.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I think it's great that you have a different approach, because, I mean, to your point, like, I can tell you everything except where I'm putting my boat in today, and the rest is up to you. Right. And if you don't want to put the time in, that's just how it's going to be.

Mike Schultz: No doubt. That's one of the. That's one of the things that I think is definitely being lost with fly fishing is, like, just the way the society is right now with that, everything's immediate. Right. And it's like, that is the journey of fly fishing. Like, you have to go out, you have to put in the time that is where if it's just catching the fish, then go to a trout pond and that's, feed them a pellet fly, but you want to go out and discover, you want to learn. That's a great sport for that type of stuff. And there's nothing better than that that's going out and actually earning that fish that you put the time in to earn.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And at least for me, I know that's the greatest challenge because I don't get to fish as much as I like to. So I get to fish about 20 to 25 days a year. And I'm always struggling and asking questions about, like, with that finite amount of fishing time, how do you maximize your performance?

Mike Schultz: Exactly. No doubt.

Marvin Cash: So, but, so, I know you guide for things other than smallmouth. Can you tell us a little bit about the guide service at the shop for the other species? And then I also know that you partner with other folks that are nearby for, like, steelhead. And also you do some destination travel as well.

Mike Schultz: Yeah, definitely. So the guide service has been around longer than the shop. The shop opened in 2012, and the guide service actually started guiding. Got my first guide license in Michigan in 2003. So the guiding has been around longer. I guided through the shops that I worked at back in the day and God bless those first few years of clients. They definitely took a risk going out with me. Obviously price of trips back then were pretty low. But it gave me the ability to get out there and learn and kind of cut my teeth and start from scratch again. But really didn't have any help with that. Just kind of went out and saw a blank slate and started working it.

So guide service has definitely expanded a lot since 2003. We're running five guides during peak season and on six different rivers. And the main, the primary focus is smallmouth bass. So that's. Most people come to fish with us for smallmouth. There are opportunities to go carp fishing. We have some really cool carp programs, sight-fishing stuff to fishing mulberries. There's just, there's a lot of opportunity for that. Especially close to the shop on the Huron River. There's a lot of impoundments and different features to that river that makes it really good for carp.

Once in a great while we'll have people that want to go out and pike fish. Not gonna lie, a big pike for us is three feet. It's not like you're gonna go catch some monster pike. But they are there and sometimes a year they're highly predictable where they're gonna be. And definitely a species you could target, but not something that we push too often. And then steelhead fishing. So we're hooked up with Steelhead Alley outfitters out of Ohio. Greg Senyo started that operation many years ago. So we'll send customers down to Steelhead Alley to fish with SAO. We'll send guys up to the Pere Marquette to fish with our head guy, James Hughes. He's mostly a smallmouth guy, but he does the steelhead in the fall as well as Tommy Lynch. Both of them are up on the PM and working that western side of the state.

So yeah, there's definitely options, but around us six rivers, anywhere from ten foot steps out the door of the shop to an hour away would be the longest drive that we do for smallies, that's our main focus and that pretty much will run. We'll start doing trips again in February and we won't stop doing trips in until Christmas. So January is pretty much the only month where we lose time to fish because the rivers are choked with ice and whatnot. The only thing to do is really fish below dams. We don't do much of that but yeah, it's a year round thing. If you really focus on one species and put your time in with that, ours being smallmouth bass, you can get really good at that species. I used to jump around when I first started guiding because we had a late start to our bass season which we talked about earlier. Last Saturday in May is a long time to sit around and wait if you're a fishing guide. So I jumped around and it just, it doesn't work. If you want to do it at a high level.

Marvin Cash: No, it makes a lot of sense. And I know another thing that you guys are known for is really supporting the community and the resource. And two events that you're regularly involved with are the Huron River Single Fly and the Chucking for the Huron. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about those two events?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, so we I've always, for a long time I've worked with the Huron River Watershed Council and that's our local, our local watchdog over our rivers, our river here and the tributaries and lakes that are part of it. So they're just an awesome organization. They're definitely a benchmark organization here in Michigan. Other watershed groups come to them for consulting and whatnot. They're just a really awesome, awesome organization.

And back in the day we started a couple different things. We started the first the Huron River Single Fly which is a fairly small deal. It's just a one day kind of fun gathering where guys meet at the shop and anglers go out and fish in two person teams and it's fairly inexpensive to get in it. I think it's like 50 bucks and you get a membership to the Watershed Council but it's a quick little, little fundraiser we do with them and then the one that actually raises a good amount of money is chucking for the Huron and that's where all of our guides donate a day and it's a thousand bucks an angler and we go out and fish for the day and see how we do. It's five fish over 16 inches. And whoever catches the most inches of fish wins. We have a big fish award, blah, blah. But the companies I personally work with, all sponsor it. So we got rods and reels and coolers and sunglasses and whatnot to give away for that one. And then the money that's raised for that event goes towards some sort of angling type improvement. Whether it's signs that just educate the public on the spawning behaviors of fish or the limits of fish and whatnot, or improving launches and put ins and takeouts and whatnot.

So Huron River Watershed Council, great organization if you live within watershed or you're here in southern Michigan, look them up and become a member. It's truly a great organization to be working with and good people to have on your side. So always down to help our local waters.

Marvin Cash: Absolutely. And I'll drop a link to them in the show notes for sure. And I can't let you go, Mike, without you sharing. I have to ask all of my guide guests the same question. The big biggest misconception you think people have about the life of a fishing guide and a fly shop owner.

Mike Schultz: Well, fishing guide, they probably think they get to fish all the time, but really they get to row all the time. And we're we've never really been that eight hour a day. There's the takeout. We've been on the water exactly eight hour guide service. So in, their schedules are all over the place. We don't start at eight and end at four, ever. We kind of, we fish. Our fishing schedule revolves around current conditions and the opportunity to put you on the best water at the best time. So these guys are out fishing 10, 11 hours with, between the time they pick up their clients and the time they drop off, 10, 11 hours and then you got an hour plus of prep before and then an hour of cleanup. So not much time to sleep, not much time for family.

And then if you want to grab a calculator, do the math on that, how much they make per hour. So you're not going to get rich being a fly fishing guy, but you're going to get rich with is just time spent outdoors and time spent with good people and whatnot. So the guides, they work their butts off and I don't do a full season like I used to, but it's a grind. It's a grind, a mental grind, a physical grind. And then a fly shop owner, you gotta wear a lot of hats. So I, yeah, I. Slowly as the business has grown, I've been able to hire a couple guys that helped me manage the place. And for a while there I had a really small plate and a lot of stuff on it. And now I'm definitely a little bit broader in what I'm doing and being able to pick and choose where my focus goes to best help the shop grow and continue to succeed. But yeah, just a lot of time, man, a lot of extra hours. We built this off of being available, so a lot of time communicating with customers in various forms, whether it's direct messages or emails or phone calls. And I always joke I'm on 20 hours a day. So you get what you put in and we tend to put in a lot of effort and a lot of work and try to keep our customers happy. So it's just a never ending grind. But it's a fun grind. And yeah, it's like anything in life doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're working hard, you're going to have a positive outcome more times than not.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, absolutely. And you've already accomplished so much in your angling career. What would you like to accomplish before you hang your skates up in 20 or 25 years?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, I mean I just continue to grow the business, take care of my team. I want the guys to have a good life and be able to afford homes and put the kids through school or whatever. So just keep grinding, make sure everyone on the squad and families taken care of and expose my kids and to the opportunities that I've had through fishing, whether it's going on destination trips and seeing the world that way or whatever, just keep seeing new stuff and meeting new people and it's an experience, man. It's a ride. I just. I don't want to get off it. I want to keep it going. I, people always ask me, what's your exit strategy? Well, of course I want to retire one day, but yeah, I could, I could do this for a long time. As long as I'm physically able and God's willing to keep me moving. I'm on it, man. I love it. There's not much, I don't ever see myself getting burned out with fishing. But yeah, just keep going, man. I don't really have any like, crazy goals that I could share. Just take care of my crew and make sure everyone's comfortable and happy.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, no, and I know you're, you really kind of that athlete's heart, right? You're always pushing yourself to get better, which is one of the reasons why you're not getting bored, right?

Mike Schultz: Correct.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. Yeah. And as we kind of wind down, are there any projects you're working on or anything that's going on in the shop that you want to share with our listeners?

Mike Schultz: Well, we got some cool stuff coming up. Kind of had some choices to make going into 2020. And we are expanding the store again. So there'll be more on that come mid January. But there'll be a new section to the shop opening up sometime, probably middle of March, beginning of April. So that's something that we're focusing on and whatnot. And I've got a couple new team members that were getting on board and getting them up to snuff and prepared for for a big year in 2020. So yeah, not much, not much. Besides the norm. We're always doing something so it never really surprises anybody. It's like, oh, you guys are doing that. Figured you'd do that. But yeah, just keep going man. Keep going. It's I'm having a good time doing it and the boys are too. And shops gonna get a little bit bigger. That's what I can tell you.

Marvin Cash: Well, that's great. And I'll also, I know that you guys have an kind of an off season educational program in the winter. I'll make sure to drop a link to that in the show notes. And how often do you have your beer ties?

Mike Schultz: Yeah, so. So Bar Flies is, I think going into its 11th year. So Bar Flies is every Wednesday night. It's down at the side tracks. We have two classes going on at Sidetrack Bar and Grill and then one class going on at the shop. So that's every Wednesday night starting I think the 8th of January. And then we do a series called so dialed. And that is pretty much every Tuesday, at least three Tuesdays a month. And that is designed for the angler with the really busy schedule. It's short format, an hour, hour and 15 minutes max. And what we did this year with that is we limited it to 15 people. So you got to sign up for it. It's 10 bucks to sign up. But then when you show up, you complete the class. You get $20 in shop credit to use that night. So you're getting paid to learn.

That particular weekly event is simply a PowerPoint presentation. You get a handout and we're pretty much telling you how we approach said species or techniques or whatever and pretty much give you the roadmaps. Your job to go use it and put it to work.

Other things that we have coming up, you got fly fishing film tours, the end of February. Our eighth year anniversary event is the last day of February, first day of March. We'll roll that in the Michigan Fly Fishing show. And then we'll have an event the second for the first weekend in April, which will be what will be announced in middle of January. So all kinds of cool stuff. Got really killer lineup for bar flies this year. Blane's coming back up. We got Larry Dahlberg coming out of retirement to hit the vise. It's gonna be exciting year with that.

Always innovating, always growing, always doing new cool stuff. So stay tuned. You can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook, Schultz outfitters.com. so we're out there, we're doing it. We'll see you guys at the shows.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, absolutely. And I'll drop as many links as I can put my hands on, on all those events into the show notes so people have an easy place to find them.

Mike Schultz: Heck yeah, man. I appreciate it. And anybody out there that that has any questions or anything, feel free to email me or DM me. We're always happy to share information and get you pointed in the right direction. If you have questions about gear or techniques or pretty much anything, we're always there to help. You'll get an answer pretty quick.

Marvin Cash: Well, I appreciate it, Schultze. I really appreciate you carving out an hour to talk with me during the busy holiday season.

Mike Schultz: Anytime, man. I appreciate you having me on and look forward to doing again.

Marvin Cash: Outstanding. Tight lines, everybody. Well, folks, I hope you liked that as much as we liked bringing it to you again. Happy holidays, and best wishes from everyone at The Articulate Fly for a happy and prosperous new year. Tight lines.