S2, Ep 93: People of Bristol Bay - Kate Crump of Frigate Adventure Travel

EPISODE SUMMARY

Guest: Kate Crump - Co-owner of Frigate Adventure Travel (Bristol Bay, Alaska & Oregon)

In this episode: Guide and outdoor writer Kate Crump shares her fishing journey from Virginia bass fishing to Pacific Northwest steelhead to becoming a professional guide in Bristol Bay, Alaska. This is part of The Articulate Fly's "People of Bristol Bay" limited series, focusing on the proposed Pebble Mine's impact on Alaska's salmon fishery and the people who depend on it. Topics include Kate's mentorship experiences, transitioning from gear fishing to fly fishing, philosophy on guiding, founding Frigate Adventure Travel, the comprehensive Alaska fishing season calendar, salmon's ecological role as a "cornerstone species," infrastructure concerns beyond the mine itself, bipartisan opposition to Pebble Mine, COVID-19's impact on booking rates, outdoor writing career development and conservation advocacy against Pebble Mine.

Key fishing techniques covered: • Gear fishing for salmon on Olympic Peninsula rivers • Spey casting for winter steelhead on the Skagit River • Single-hand fly fishing techniques for steelhead • Drift boat rowing for salmon fishing • Bristol Bay salmon and trout guiding techniques

Location focus: Bristol Bay & Nushagak River (Alaska), Naknek River (Alaska), Kvichak River headwaters (Alaska), Katmai National Park, Becharof Wildlife Refuge, Olympic Peninsula (Washington), Skagit River (Washington), Thompson River (British Columbia), Shenandoah Valley (Virginia), Oregon coast

Target species: Salmon (king/chinook, sockeye, silver/coho), steelhead (winter-run), rainbow trout (trophy), Dolly Varden, grayling, bass (largemouth)

Equipment discussed: 8-weight single-hand rods, Spey rods, gear rods for salmon, drift boats, Frigate Adventure Travel guide services

Key questions answered: • How do you transition from gear fishing to fly fishing? • What's it like to guide in Bristol Bay Alaska? • How does Pebble Mine threaten Bristol Bay's salmon fishery? • What makes a good fishing guide? • What's the steelhead fishing like on the Olympic Peninsula? • How do salmon function as a cornerstone species? • What infrastructure concerns exist beyond the mine itself? • How to break into outdoor writing? • What's the Alaska fishing season calendar?

Best for: All anglers interested in Alaska salmon fishing, Bristol Bay conservation, Pebble Mine opposition, women in fishing, Pacific Northwest steelhead, fishing guide career paths, outdoor writing, ecosystem conservation, bipartisan environmental advocacy

**Marvin Cash (00:04):**
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. Welcome to the latest installment of our limited series, People of Bristol Bay. For the last 15 years or so, the proposed Pebble Mine has been discussed in one form or another. As time marches on, particularly in the Lower 48, we tend to lose sight of the actual people living and pursuing their livelihoods in Bristol Bay and Pebble's potential impact on their way of life. Once a month or so, we'll share an interview with you so these folks can share their love of the Alaskan outdoors and what the proposed Pebble Mine means to them. On this episode, I'm joined by Kate Crump, co-owner of Frigate Adventure Travel. I was able to catch up with Kate a few days before her fishing season started in Alaska. Kate shares her fishing and writing journey from the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia to the Pacific Northwest to Bristol Bay. But before we move on to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. Last Friday, the Army Corps of Engineers released its final environmental impact statement, putting Pebble Mine one step closer to becoming a reality. No doubt you've seen many related posts on social media. If you oppose the proposed Pebble Mine, liking and sharing these posts is simply not enough. I challenge you to take five minutes today to tell a friend, a family member, or a co-worker who has never heard of Pebble what is at stake, why it's important to you, and how to take action. Everything you need, including links to previous interviews, is in this episode's show notes. And if you like the podcast, please tell a friend, subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice, and leave us a review. It would really help us out. Now, on to our interview. Well, Kate, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

**Kate Crump (01:43):**
Thanks so much for having me, Marvin.

**Marvin Cash (01:45):**
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation, and it's unusual for me to run into a fellow Virginian, so that was good to make that connection too. We have a tradition on The Articulate Fly. We always ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

**Kate Crump (01:58):**
Okay. Well, my dad, growing up, was really involved in the Boy Scouts in Virginia and so he had access to the ponds at the Boy Scout camp just outside of Staunton, Virginia. And so it wasn't something that my dad would do, but for whatever reason, I'm not sure what his motivation was, he took me and not my brothers bass fishing. And I was pretty young. I was probably seven or eight. And he left me on the dock, you know, with my red and white bobber, my little spin rod that my grandpa had given me. And I was fishing a worm and it's out there in the middle of the lake and just hanging out. My dad left me there on the dock and was probably working the shoreline or he was probably hunting the big fish, I imagine. And he probably didn't think anything was going to happen for me. And then all of a sudden I had this huge fish on the line. My red and white bobber goes under the water. And I remember it just feeling huge and strong. And I was a little tiny kid. I mean, I was skinny. And I remember yelling to my dad like, I need help. I need help. And he probably was more surprised than me. And he came running. And I was like, Dad, please help me. Please help me. This is so strong. And he was like, oh, this is all you. This is your fish. You got to bring it in. Probably a great lesson. And so I got this huge bass in. And it was the biggest fish I'd seen in my life. And I was very proud. Of course, we kept it, probably put it in a Styrofoam cooler or something like that. And then he was like, well, I guess you should probably cast back out there. And I remember thinking, like, well, what are the chances that there's another fish out there that would eat my worm? So I put my worm on the hook and cast it back out there. And I don't think it was out there but a few minutes. And I had an even bigger bass on the end of my line. And then I was really begging my dad to help me. And he was like, absolutely not. This is your fish. You got to bring it in. And I did. And I just remember being so exhausted and then so proud. And of course, we put that one in the cooler. And when I got home, I really remember how proud my brothers were of me. I mean, there are some great photos of us in the kitchen holding these bass on stringers. My brothers are holding up my arm like I'm Rocky, you know, I just won the championship.

**Marvin Cash (05:11):**
Yeah, that's fantastic. When did you move to the dark side of fly fishing?

**Kate Crump (05:17):**
Not until I moved out to the West Coast. And, you know, that really started my interest in fishing was fishing for salmon on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. I would say that that moment with my dad and a couple of trout fishing moments with my grandpa were not really the catalyst for who I am today. I'm sure they planted the seeds in some way, but it was really standing in the rivers of the Olympic Peninsula, watching salmon swim by me that just fired off this love and drive to be on the water all the time.

**Marvin Cash (06:05):**
Very neat. Who are some of the folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey and what did they teach you?

**Kate Crump (06:12):**
Gosh, I feel like I've been really fortunate to have folks that want to see me succeed along the way. When I first started fishing, I had a great friend that is still my friend to this day that taught me how to row a drift boat and taught me how to gear fish for salmon. And then I started working at a fishing store and they had fly fishing gear and hunting gear and also terminal tackle. And when I came into that situation, I was a gear fisherman. I was a salmon gear fisherman to heart. And my boss there was such an incredible fisherman and he was so willing to share his knowledge and even his gear with me. And he took me out and showed me the ropes in that side. And then there were a couple guys, older gentlemen. I always say when I worked at that fishing store, I inherited like 17 grandfathers. So I had all these older grandpas that were willing to take me fishing. And there was one guy in particular that was insistent that I learned to fly fish for steelhead. And I thought that was crazy. I felt like I could barely catch them with a gear rod. So he took me on the Skagit River and with my single hand 8-weight, he showed me some basic Spey casting techniques. And I hooked a steelhead on my first day with him fly fishing. And that really started to spin me out in that world. And then Justin, who's my husband now, we actually worked together at that time. And he is probably the best fisherman I know. And I think many people would agree with that statement that know him. And he was a diehard fly fisherman. He and I went to the Thompson River in British Columbia. And I was fishing my gear rod for winter steelhead. I really didn't have the fly fishing skills. And he was using a Spey rod to fish for the steelhead. And I mean, he landed two incredible fish over the course of this weekend. And I didn't touch a thing. And so I then started to really pursue winter steelhead Spey casting. I really cut my teeth on the Skagit River doing that. And then not long after that, I came up to Alaska to work for this woman called, her name is Nancy Morris Lyon. And she is the first female sport fishing guide in Bristol Bay. She doesn't really guide much anymore but she runs a lodge. She owns a lodge and has a bunch of guides that work for her. She has a ton of experience. And so working for her and her husband, they were just absolutely incredible mentors in the waters of Bristol Bay and salmon here and trout, but also in becoming a better fishing guide and really honing that craft. So I feel like I've just been so fortunate.

**Marvin Cash (09:55):**
Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. And you're also an outdoor writer. When did you get the writing bug?

**Kate Crump (09:59):**
Oh man. Well, I really appreciate you using that term outdoor writer. That's something I really love to do and something I struggle to find time to do. But I really got excited about writing. Oh, man, probably after my first season guiding in Alaska. A year or two prior, I had started a blog. And that was sort of the era of blogs, right? And the idea of the blog was sort of to connect women in fishing. And I really didn't, there weren't that many people, there wasn't that many women that were sort of prominent in the fishing industry, like I would say there are today. It was much harder to find women during that time that loved to do it and loved to do it at sort of the hardcore style that I was interested in. And so I met a couple of women along the way, and I thought it was such a great way to keep us all connected. And so I kind of started dabbling in writing through that blog. But I think what really got me inspired to write were these very personal stories about fishing experiences that seemed to me to have this metaphor for life. And so I wrote this story about, I mentioned this mentor that really taught me how to row a boat fishing for salmon. He and I went fishing one day on the Olympic Peninsula after, I think it was after my first guide season. And I was gear fishing, which at that time I was sort of a hardcore fly fisherman for winter steelhead. But something about fishing with him, I was always kind of stoked to go back to my roots, you know, to fish a gear rod and to really acknowledge that fishing gear is not easier than fishing a fly rod. It's just different, but it has all these nuances and there's an art and there's a skill to develop that. And so I sort of went back to the dark side, I guess. I sort of went back that day with him and I was fishing a gear rod and I wasn't even apologetic about it. I was so excited to do it. And then I hooked the biggest steelhead of my life so far. And it was such an emotional experience to question whether I was going to get this fish all the way into the net. And when I finally did, I was just so speechless and so moved by this massive buck who had worked so hard to get to this spot in the river and had such a journey ahead of him to make more steelhead. And so I wrote the story with no intention of it going anywhere. And I shared it with my buddy who was on the water with me and he really enjoyed it. And this is a little bit of a long story, Marvin, but he liked it so much. And at the same time, there was sort of this coincidence with this known outdoor writer that needed his boat painted. And my buddy Steve was connected with him to paint his boat. And anyway, the boat painting went a little sideways. And this outdoor writer, Dylan is his name, Dylan said, well, just so you know, I don't really have that much money. I'm an outdoor writer. And so my buddy Steve, who is probably one of the kindest, most generous souls in the world, he was like, you know what? No problem. Why don't you pay for the materials? And then why don't you trade me out a little something? I've got this great friend who's really interested in writing. And so why don't we sort of exchange my labor for your labor, and you help her out, and you become her writing mentor. And I'm sure he thought at the time, like, well, I just got the short end of the stick because now he's kind of stuck with me for life. But I got this phone call from this writer that I admired and I wholeheartedly respected and tried to emulate that he was going to be my writing mentor. And I mean, I couldn't believe it. So I questioned him a couple of times, are you sure? And yeah, so to this day, he's been extremely influential in the process of my writing and has helped me grow as a writer. And also I'm very grateful for that.

**Marvin Cash (15:12):**
Very neat. Do you remember the first article that you got published and got paid for?

**Kate Crump (15:18):**
I think the first article I got published and paid for was in the Fly Fish Journal. And it was a story, Jeff Galbraith, the publisher/editor, had reached out to Justin and I because we were traveling down to Baja to spend a couple months. And so I did sort of this journal entry style of our experiences down in Baja. And I think that was the first article I had published. And I think I remember being very surprised that they paid us. Oh, I'm excited, you know, it's like, wow, this is the thing.

**Marvin Cash (16:08):**
Yeah, that's super neat. And you know, you've been writing for a while. Where else have your articles appeared?

**Kate Crump (16:14):**
Well, one of my favorite stories was in Patagonia's, it was a field report for Patagonia in their, one of their catalogs. And it was about a trip I did to Honduras with another Patagonia ambassador. And, yeah, it was, that was a great spot.

**Marvin Cash (16:38):**
Yeah. Very neat. And for aspiring outdoor writers, like you were back in the day, what piece of advice would you give them about how to break into the outdoor writing business?

**Kate Crump (16:48):**
Oh, wow. I would say read your work out loud. And anytime you cringe, definitely fix it. But I think trying to find a mentor. And I think that there are a lot of people out there that are willing to lend a little bit of time. And that's a great way to grow as a writer is to have a great writer critique your work and offer suggestions and I think you just have to write all the time.

**Marvin Cash (17:18):**
Yeah, and how do you find time to do that? Because you're super busy right, because you're running your own outfitting business, you're guiding in two different places and I mean when I kind of look at the calendar there's not a lot of downtime on either end of your fishing seasons.

**Kate Crump (17:32):**
Yeah, it's definitely a challenge to do and I would say the last couple of years, I really haven't. The writing outlet that I use are newsletters that I send out to our guest list. And they're small little snippets and looks into our life. But that tends to satiate that need to write a little bit. But I really don't have time, Marvin, unfortunately.

**Marvin Cash (18:08):**
No, it just happens that way. And, you know, particularly with fishing seasons, you know, it's 100% on, right, the whole time. And, you know, obviously, we all know you're a fishing guide. When did you get the guide bug?

**Kate Crump (18:23):**
Well, I was living in Southern Oregon, and Justin had convinced me to move down there from Washington. And when I was living in Washington, I just felt like I had a great thing going. Wonderful friends. I told you about these 17 grandfathers I had. I mean, I just had a great support group. But Justin and I were getting more serious, and he used to send me pictures of this fishing guide in Southern Oregon's website. He would post all the winter steelhead he caught. So it just wore me down and I moved down there with him. And I just didn't find that to be a place that originated for me. And all the places I've lived at this point, like they, I just know in my heart when I get there, this is where I belong. And that just wasn't the place. And so one of our friends was guiding for Nancy and her husband, Keith. And so, you know, just naive to think, like, I would go do this, and I could go do this. And so I asked him, like, hey, do you think I could go up there and guide? And his response was so supportive. You know, he was like, oh, my gosh, Kate, why didn't I think of this sooner? You would be great. And all the things he said really encouraged me that, oh yeah, okay, this is something I can do. And so he called, he put in a good word for me. And with that support, they hired me. And so I came up for the first season and I, you know, I was here for a few weeks and I knew I'd be doing it for possibly the rest of my life. I just knew I belonged here. I knew I belonged doing this. I know that I belong on the water as much as possible.

**Marvin Cash (20:21):**
Very, very neat. And what do you think is the secret to being a good guide?

**Kate Crump (20:27):**
I think that the secret to being a good guide is really caring about people. I don't think it has anything to do with being a great fisherman. I think those are sort of side assets that you need to have and good problem-solving skills and that type of thing. But I think the real secret is to truly, genuinely care about people and want to see them have a wonderful time, want to see them taken care of through that process and sort of having a mentality that you're sharing wherever you are with that person. And that's an honor to have that opportunity.

**Marvin Cash (21:16):**
Yeah, that's really neat. And I always ask all of our guide guests to share their craziest guide story or experience.

**Kate Crump (21:30):**
Oh, that's a great question, Marvin. Craziest? I don't know if I have the answer to that in the moment. But I do remember being dropped off in a river in Bristol Bay. And because it was foggy, we had to get kind of dropped off in a different spot. And it wasn't the typical place. And so I didn't know the way in. And we sort of flew over, but it was still so foggy that I couldn't really see the path. And I had a family, a dad and a mom and a daughter. They weren't, you know, huge fishermen. They were really more into the adventure. And so I'm sort of faking it until I make it. This is my first season. And I just ended up bushwhacking through, like, really heavy alders and swamps. And like I'd turn around, I'd see them all getting hit in the face with alders and I just felt terrible. And then we finally get to the river and as I like hear the river, then I start to see it through the alders, I just feel this huge sense of relief. And then we step out, and there's another, we got alders in our hair and in our backpacks and everything. I mean, we just looked like we went through, we all got lines across our face from getting hit. And we step out, and there's another guide and his guests, and they're landing like this huge rainbow. And I just remember being so embarrassed, you know.

**Marvin Cash (23:25):**
Yeah, that's a great story. What do you think is the biggest misconception folks have about the life of a fishing guide?

**Kate Crump (23:31):**
Oh, I think that it's easy and it's always on the water. It's just having a great time and you're playing, you know, that you're just fishing and playing. And I think there's some truth to that, that we love it so much that it doesn't necessarily feel like work. But there is always work that goes with it. And a lot of it is behind the scenes. You know, we're really adamant about having super clean boats and having really nice gear. And those are types of things that we don't do in front of our guests. We have it always prepared. So it's sort of a fairytale look to it, you know, but all the behind the scenes is a lot of work.

**Marvin Cash (24:17):**
Yeah, it always amazes me that people just think that that magically happens, that the boat is clean and their lunches and everything's rigged up. And, you know, I always tell people like just on any given fishing day, you know, a guide like out west in Montana probably spends two hours on either side of the day getting ready. Right?

**Kate Crump (24:33):**
Yeah. Yep.

**Marvin Cash (24:35):**
So you and your husband a while back founded Frigate Adventure Travel. Can you tell us a little bit about Frigate?

**Kate Crump (24:43):**
Yeah. So we really started the company when we were working for a lodge up here in Alaska. Because during the wintertime, we fished for winter steelhead in Oregon and Washington, but mostly Oregon. And all the guests are always asking, like, what do you do in the winter? And we were always saying, like, we go fishing for winter steelhead. And tell me a little bit more about it. Not that many people know about steelhead. And I guess we were, you know, passionately responding. And we got interest, like, hey, well, do you think that you guys could take me to steelhead fishing? And I think we both thought, well, gosh, yeah, I guess we could. That could be really fun. And that might supplement our income. And so we started the business to guide guests in Oregon for winter steelhead. And we based it on the lodge experience in Alaska, where our guests show up, usually from outside the state. And we take them fishing, and we have great lodging and great food in a beautiful place. And then we take them for these great experiences on the rivers. So that was sort of the beginning of it. And then five years ago, we branched out and started our own guide service here in Bristol Bay, Alaska. So it's been a really interesting cycle to run a business in Oregon and run a business in Alaska.

**Marvin Cash (26:20):**
Yeah, very neat. And for our listeners that aren't familiar with the fishing seasons in Alaska, can you kind of walk us through what a typical fishing season looks like?

**Kate Crump (26:30):**
Yeah, so mid-June, we start a camp on the Nushagak River. And our guests fly in every day where Justin and one of our guides, Jeff, are sort of stationed out at the camp. And we're fishing for king salmon. The Nushagak River gets the largest return of king salmon up in the world, I believe. And so it's a really incredible fishery. Just incredible numbers of fish, good size king salmon. And we do that until sort of the beginning of July. And then we transfer back over to the Naknek River. And we continue to fish for kings on the Naknek River, as well as sockeye salmon start showing up in numbers that we can fish for them on the river as well. During all of this time, we have these great opportunities to fly into remote places like Katmai National Park. It's several million acres. Becharof Wildlife Refuge is another couple million acres. So these totally roadless, remote, fly-in only destinations. And we fish small streams for trout, Dolly Varden, and grayling primarily. And we'll see bears and fox and wolves and just tons of wildlife, eagles and osprey. And as July transitions, sort of at the end of July, king salmon fishing closes up. And then we start fishing for silver salmon or coho salmon. We fish for those salmon through into like the first or second week of September. And during August and into September, our sockeyes start to peak as far as spawning. So they're dropping eggs, and they're usually all up in the headwaters in these remote places. I mentioned Katmai and Becharof. So they're in these remote headwaters spawning, and so there are these incredibly healthy populations of trout, Dolly Varden, and graylings feeding on these dropping eggs. And the water is super crystal clear, so you can see all of this happening. And there are even more bears than there were the month before because the sockeyes are just so prolific and the food sources are readily available to them. On into September, the places that the sockeyes are spawning start to dwindle. Mostly we start finding sockeye in creeks or rivers that connect to lakes. And those places continue to have spawning sockeye into October. And so that's sort of our trophy rainbow trout period where we stopped fishing for salmon and we're focused mostly on large rainbow trout and char, Dolly Varden, and grayling in all of these systems.

**Marvin Cash (29:35):**
Very neat. Do you have a favorite one of those seasons that you like better than any other one?

**Kate Crump (29:41):**
Well, I love trophy rainbow trout fishing. The fall time is, I feel like I look forward to that so much. So it's a great ending to our season because I'm not burnt out, you know, I'm just so excited to share these moments with people in these places. But it's interesting over the last few years, I've really come to enjoy fishing for silver salmon during the month of August. I've been just for whatever reason I love the, you know, the casting with the single hand rod and sort of, you know, tight spaces and watching them chase your fly and then the fight's pretty incredible.

**Marvin Cash (30:36):**
Yeah. Very neat. What's the biggest difference between guiding in Alaska and guiding in Oregon?

**Kate Crump (30:44):**
Well, the most dramatic difference is the sort of the influence of man, the development and the extraction of resources in Oregon versus Alaska where we're over these roadless areas that don't have much of an impact from man. And in Oregon, it's very apparent the sort of the influence of man on these rivers that once were prolific and wild like they are in Bristol Bay. They've been very much controlled and affected.

**Marvin Cash (31:23):**
Interesting. And, you know, it's just kind of, I guess, so much part of our culture now, you know, how is COVID-19 going to impact your upcoming fishing season?

**Kate Crump (31:34):**
Well, we are probably at 50% of bookings from last year. That being said, we just haven't had a booking for the last three months because nobody could make those plans. We don't expect anybody to. We didn't even know if we were going to be able to operate until last week. That level of uncertainty has prevented us from being able to make a plan or have bookings or even ask people to book. It seems very inappropriate. That being said, we have some new guidelines in place. I just got a huge shipment of spray hand sanitizer to sanitize all of the rods every day and things that people touch and sort of a little bit extra work to make sure we don't have any issues and just being aware that there are some changes. And there's this weird thing, like I'm a hugger. I mean, if you catch a big fish, I'm hugging you. And if I see you, I'm hugging you. I just love to hug people. And so I think I'm not really allowed to do that anymore. I just kind of like give you an elbow bump or something. So when you catch your fish of your lifetime, I might hug you anyway, but I think I'm not supposed to.

**Marvin Cash (33:06):**
Yeah, well, we won't tell anybody. But despite all of this going on, my understanding is the Army Corps of Engineers is still committed to maintaining its timeline to evaluate the proposed Pebble Mine's first federal permit. I think we're expecting to hear something in the next few weeks. To help our listeners understand the geography, where is the proposed mine in relation to where you guide?

**Kate Crump (33:37):**
There are five major rivers that flow into Bristol Bay, and we are on the Naknek River and the next river flowing into Bristol Bay is the Alagnak River and the Kvichak River kind of comes together. And so the proposed mine is at the headwaters of the Kvichak River. It's about a 45 minute flight from where we are in the town of King Salmon on the Naknek River. And we put a boat on that river every year to fish for trophy rainbow trout from August until the end of September. So it's a really important destination for us and our guests, as well as a bunch of headwater streams in that area. So it's pretty close.

**Marvin Cash (34:29):**
Yeah, it sounds close. And, you know, the impact of the salmon runs is really on more than commercial and recreational fishing. Can you help our listeners understand kind of how salmon function in the broader Bristol Bay ecosystem?

**Kate Crump (34:44):**
Yes. So salmon are what we refer to as the cornerstone species. This area has such a short growing season. I mean, we have old growth trees that are not much taller than our house. So we just have these very short seasons. It gets really cold here in the wintertime. Things freeze over. The rivers freeze over to the point that they become highways between villages connecting communities throughout those winter months. So because of this, there aren't that many nutrients. There's not this process where like Montana and where you are, like there's this sort of nutrient rich long growing season. And so salmon are returning to these rivers and to the headwaters of these areas and bringing in the nutrients from the ocean, essentially. And because we're talking millions of salmon, on our river, the Naknek alone, the escapement or the number of salmon that they would like to see into the watershed is from 800,000 to one and a half million salmon. And so these salmon go up into these areas and they spread out through all the headwaters of the watershed. And not only are they providing a food source for all the wildlife, I mean, bears, wolves, I've watched wolves catch salmon with their mouths by diving in the water, bears, eagles, every little thing depends on them. And as they are spawning and creating baby salmon, which will then swim out into these lake systems and feed other fish in those areas and other aquatic wildlife, they are dying. So the salmon are dying in these areas and the nutrients that they leave are instrumental to this abundance of life that happens every year in Bristol Bay. And it happens because we haven't interrupted that cycle by doing anything. We've really let it be. And that's why it's the last run of wild, largest and last run of wild sustaining salmon left in the world. Because we haven't interfered.

**Marvin Cash (37:22):**
Yeah, that's pretty amazing. I think one of the things that I find really interesting is, you know, most of us in the angling and the hunting community are very familiar with the proposed mine. But when I talk to people, they really have no idea about the related infrastructure. You know, so an extensive road network of you know, 80 to 100 miles of road and places that don't have roads, you know, pretty large power plant, gas pipeline under Cook Inlet. You know, what do you think all of that infrastructure is going to do if it's put in to impact the Bristol Bay ecosystem and how do you think it could affect your guiding business?

**Kate Crump (37:59):**
Well, one interesting thing about Bristol Bay is it is also interconnected. When you fly over, people are just completely blown away by how much water is across this watershed. And it's very interconnected. There's no separate place, right? It's all one big system. And when I'm guiding in Oregon or fishing on the West Coast, there's not very many rivers that you go to that don't have a road alongside of them. Almost every river I guide on has a road that goes along the river and also then has culverts that are too small in the headwaters or bridges. And on top of that, Marvin, there's not this natural buffer along these rivers that allows the river to sort of stay healthy and maintain itself. You know, you've got patches where there aren't trees and rivers. The West Coast need trees to stay cool. And also a natural filtration process of things. So to sort of take that and apply that to a very important headwater stream in Bristol Bay, one of the major ones, we've got real potential for disrupting these cycles and sort of getting in the way of letting the salmon do their thing. With any infrastructure, there's always a potential to see inappropriate or maybe not scientific application to how to construct it without messing up the natural world. Oftentimes cost becomes a big influence. Instead of building a huge bridge that doesn't touch the river at all, that's way too much money. So we just build one that kind of touches it and messes up spawning grounds or something like that. But the potential to really impact these salmon runs and also the landscape, there's huge value in this remote area. I mean, we already have this incredibly sustainable resource that is providing millions of jobs. And sort of like the American dream jobs too, that you can work for yourself and you can work hard and you can make a living and support a family. And you can teach your kids how to work hard and teach them the importance of taking care of a resource and how, if done well, we can have it forever. And it can be a source of income and livelihood for people. I think changing the way the landscape looks to turn any portion of this area into a mining district or an industrial district, we lose the draw. People don't come here to tour a mining facility. People come here to tour the last greatest intact watershed that hosts the largest run of salmon left in the world.

**Marvin Cash (41:40):**
Yeah, and, you know, for those of us that live in the Lower 48, can you give us a sense of the opposition to the proposed mine in Alaska? Is it, you know, mostly outdoor-oriented businesses like yours and conservation groups, or is the coalition broader?

**Kate Crump (41:56):**
Oh, the coalition is much broader. And really to say that it's just outdoor folks or outdoor industry, Alaska's culture is outdoor. I mean, you don't have to be a sport fisherman or an environmentalist or a Democrat. I mean, it's Republicans and it's so bipartisan because I don't know any Alaskans that sit inside their house and just watch TV and go to work and go shopping at the mall. I mean, I still know that. That's not a thing. Alaska culture is founded in the outdoors, in sort of that resiliency and that ability to work hard and most of that, and also recreate in the outdoors. But a lot of the culture here in Bristol Bay is to put up food for the winter. I mean, these are hunters. And so they go catch salmon to put up for the winter because it costs over a dollar a pound to ship anything here, Marvin. Of course you're going to go eat as much salmon as you can. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to go get it and put it up for the winter. And it's such a great food source. But also these people, you know, they hunt moose and caribou and even people hunt bears. Not that many people eat bears though, but some do. And they are sustaining themselves. They're kind of taking care of their own.

**Marvin Cash (43:45):**
Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, how do you think policymakers should balance mining and oil and gas interests versus other constituencies?

**Kate Crump (43:54):**
I think that is such a great question and probably one that we should be having more because I'm not necessarily anti-mine and I'm not anti-resource extraction. I'm not anti-timber. I mean, I think there is a place for these industries. And what I don't see happening anywhere that I go is a real sustainable approach to these businesses. I see very corporate interests dominating the discussion. And I think that there is a sort of a lack of understanding of what's happening in rural communities with those industries. And by sort of blowing off rural industries and communities and the people that live in those communities, and by not being a part of that community, you aren't able to see the importance of that or even be a part of that conversation. So I really think that we need to look at these industries along with the outdoors and what is the value of outdoors. I mean, I sort of feel like it's a good time to change this sort of manifest destiny idea that like this idea that we are just going to dominate the landscape and sort of looking at how can we live, work, and thrive in sort of harmony with the outdoors? I mean, water is so important to who we are as people. How do we protect that, but also utilize it? So I think that's a great question, and I'd love to see us be able to sort of step across the aisle and work together.

**Marvin Cash (46:02):**
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have a feel for kind of how the economic impacts of the COVID pandemic are impacting kind of support for and opposition to the mine?

**Kate Crump (46:13):**
Well, I think that with COVID, there's been a huge distraction from what the Army Corps is doing, sort of pushing this permit through at an unprecedented rate and with a lot of alarm from the folks that are anti-Pebble, the communities that live here and the people that work here and people from all over the world that care about this place and don't want to see it turn into a mining district and want to see salmon be the resource of this area forever. We're distracted. There's a lot going on in the world right now. And all of it seems pressing and seems to take up a lot of our time. And a lot of it is traumatic for people, all the things happening right now. So, so COVID has distracted us from from sort of paying attention to what's happening with the Pebble Mine and being outraged about it because it just seems like one of many things going on. So I think it's important for us not to take the eye off the ball, but it's understandable that people are.

**Marvin Cash (47:26):**
Right, absolutely. And, you know, what would you say to non-Alaskans and folks that don't hunt and fish about why they should care about the proposed Pebble Mine?

**Kate Crump (47:37):**
One thing I always say is that even if you don't have the opportunity or don't see the opportunity to visit Bristol Bay and see this for yourself, salmon have been a part of our culture and are an extremely important part of our world. So if this is the last place that has them in healthy, sustainable numbers, I hope that you'll consider that that is worth protecting and that's worth holding on to. And once you destroy something, it's so much harder to bring it back. And you can look at the entire West Coast as evidence of that, how hard it is to bring back healthy salmon run to those areas and how much money we spend on trying to bring those back. When right now, America doesn't have to put any money into this area and it's just going. And I think that our generations to come will question if we let the Pebble Mine go through. They'll question how we let the last run die. Leaving that legacy will be very shameful.

**Marvin Cash (48:56):**
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because I can remember when I interviewed Chris Wood of Trout Unlimited, he was basically relating that the Columbia River restoration was the most expensive and least effective restoration that we've ever tried to execute on.

**Kate Crump (49:12):**
Yeah, and it had a more prolific salmon fishery than we have here at one point. So that money could all be going to social issues or, you know, feeding the hungry or just even developing better education programs. I mean, there's a plethora of things that we could use the money that is currently going into salmon restoration for the benefit of people.

**Marvin Cash (49:46):**
And kind of to move back to a little bit more optimistic note, so if I remember correctly from our conversation a week or so ago, your guide season starts on the 17th of June?

**Kate Crump (49:58):**
Yeah, a couple days away.

**Marvin Cash (50:00):**
So it's coming up and the beginning of the grind for, I guess, the first part of your fishing season. What are you looking forward to the most?

**Kate Crump (50:09):**
I'm really looking forward to seeing all of our guests that come back every year to fish this season with us, fish on the Nushagak. I'm excited to sort of get back into the swing of things and have a path and a known plan. I'm excited to work with my crew. I'm surrounded by some of the best people that we work with, and I'm excited to live and breathe fishing with them for the next few months.

**Marvin Cash (50:45):**
Yeah, very neat. And where can folks find you on the internet and follow your adventures in Alaska and Oregon?

**Kate Crump (50:52):**
We are at frigatetravel.com, and we just made a new website. So it's shiny and fun. And that is spelled F-R-I-G-A-T-E travel.com.

**Marvin Cash (51:06):**
Very neat. Anything on social media you want to let folks know about?

**Kate Crump (51:10):**
Yeah, we're also at Frigate Travel on Instagram and also on Facebook. And we'd love to have you follow us along on our journey. One of the gals who works for us in Alaska is a professional photographer. So she runs our social media and she's going to have all kinds of fun photos from this summer. So please check in.

**Marvin Cash (51:33):**
Absolutely. And I'll drop links to all that good stuff in the show notes.

**Kate Crump (51:38):**
Thank you. I really appreciate it.

**Marvin Cash (51:40):**
Absolutely. And I really appreciate you. As I know, you know, time is getting short, getting ready to carve a little bit of time out to chat with me before the season starts. I really appreciate it, Kate.

**Kate Crump (51:51):**
Thanks for asking me, Marvin. And I'm always excited to share Bristol Bay with folks. And really, I hope everyone stands up against Pebble Mine. Write your legislators.

**Marvin Cash (52:02):**
Yep, absolutely. Thanks so much and best of luck in the upcoming fishing season. Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Remember, please check out the show notes for all the information on Bristol Bay, Pebble Mine, and how you can take action. And if you like the podcast, please tell a friend. Please subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice and please leave us a review. It would really help us out. Tight lines, everybody.