S3, Ep 61: Cameron Mortenson of The Fiberglass Manifesto

EPISODE SUMMARY

Guest: Cameron Mortenson - Founder and Blogger at The Fiberglass Manifesto (Columbia, South Carolina)

In this episode: Fiberglass fly rod advocate Cameron Mortenson shares his 13-year journey building The Fiberglass Manifesto into the leading resource for glass rod enthusiasts. Topics include fiberglass rod technology evolution, building an authentic fly fishing media presence, the Southeast fly fishing community's golden era and strategies for balancing content creation with family and career.

Key fishing techniques covered:

• Casting with fiberglass rods (slower tempo, teaching tool for proper rod loading)
• Topwater fishing with foam spiders for bluegill and pike
• Night fishing with brown drakes, hex hatches and mice patterns on Michigan rivers
• Swinging flies for steelhead (bay flies, classic patterns)
• Warmwater flat fishing for smallmouth, carp and pike on Beaver Island

Location focus: Northern Michigan (Grayling, AuSable River, Beaver Island, St. Joe River, Dowagiac River), South Carolina (Columbia area), Western North Carolina (Davidson River), Southeast region

Target species: Bluegill, pike, brown trout, brook trout, steelhead, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass, carp, musky, redfish, striper, shad, tarpon, bonefish, permit

Equipment discussed: Eagle Claw Featherlight, fiberglass rod builders (Tom Morgan, Chris Barclay, Mike McFarland, Shane Gray, Matt Lederman), Scott Fly Rod (Fiber Hammer, Fiber Touch), Echo, Orvis, Swift Fly Fishing, J.W. Young reels (Baldex), rod materials (E-glass, S-glass, T-glass, Zentron), fly patterns (Coachman Trude, foam spiders, green butt skunk, brown drakes, hex patterns, mice patterns), rod weights 3-14

Key questions answered:

• How did The Fiberglass Manifesto get started and grow?
• What are the benefits of fishing fiberglass fly rods?
• How has fiberglass rod technology evolved over 15 years?
• What's the best way to get started with fiberglass fly fishing?
• How do you build and maintain an authentic fly fishing media presence?
• How do you balance content creation with family and full-time career?

Best for: All skill levels interested in fiberglass fly rods, fly fishing media and content creation, Southeast fly fishing history, warmwater fishing techniques, Michigan fishing destinations, gear enthusiasts and aspiring fly fishing entrepreneurs

**Marvin Cash (00:04):**
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by Cameron Mortenson, the driving force behind The Fiberglass Manifesto. We take a deep dive into all things glass and the past, present and future of TFM. I think you're really going to enjoy this interview.

But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please follow us and leave a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

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There wouldn't be a show without listeners like you and we appreciate your support more than you know. Now, on to the interview.

Well, Cameron, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

**Cameron Mortenson (01:10):**
Hey, welcome. Thank you for inviting me on the show. I really appreciate it.

**Marvin Cash (01:14):**
I've been looking forward to it. I sort of feel like I've arrived when I have Cameron Mortenson and The Fiberglass Manifesto on the podcast.

**Cameron Mortenson (01:21):**
Well, I think it's just because I kept pushing you off and my schedule wouldn't work out for us to actually talk. So I'm glad all the pieces fell into place for it to happen tonight.

**Marvin Cash (01:31):**
Yeah, absolutely. And you know we have a tradition on The Articulate Fly—we always ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

**Cameron Mortenson (01:35):**
You know what, growing up my dad didn't fish and I have like an early memory that we used to—we had a camper and we'd go camping. And I think my mom pushed him like, "Hey, you should take the kids fishing." And it was not something that he was super stoked about. And I think there was something happened with like the worms that he bought—like they died and we had to go get more. And he was like in a bad mood about it.

Fast forward from there to when we were actually fishing. We had a—I remember there was a white bucket. We put some water in it and we kept catching these little bluegills and we'd throw them in the bucket. And I think we played with those bluegills in the bucket for like half the day. And I still remember like the fish would kind of swim out of my hand and then like their fins would kind of spike me in the hand, but it was just—I was so drawn to these little bluegills in this bucket. And then at the end of the day we put them back in the lake.

So that's the earliest memory of fishing. And then kind of fast forward a number of years—I end up working at a summer camp in northern Michigan and there was a lake at the camp that had great fishing. So there were bluegills in there, there were smallmouth, largemouth, there was pike. And there was a group of guys that fished a lot and I kind of got in with them and we'd fish early in the mornings and a lot of times in the evenings.

And it was while I was working there at the summer camp that I started fly fishing. And so I learned how to cast down the lake and had a little foam spider that I would—was learning how to cast—I would catch bluegill. And every now and then a pike would come and just snatch that bluegill. And so my rod would have a bluegill and you kind of expect to feel what a bluegill feels like. And all of a sudden that featherlight would just totally go bendo on a 30-inch pike that snatched the bluegill and would fight most of the way to the boat. And then they would either break the line or they would come off. And that poor bluegill was all scarred up from it.

**Marvin Cash (04:02):**
Yeah, that's pretty neat. And you know, kind of moving forward from kind of high school forward—who are some of the folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey and what did they teach you?

**Cameron Mortenson (04:14):**
Well, you know, a lot of what happened happened in fly shops. It was people that I don't even know their names now. When I was just learning how to fly fish, you know, I hung out a lot—the summer camp was just outside of Grayling. I remember I went into Raise—I think it was called the Fly Factory back then—and bought some flies and went and caught the first trout I caught on the AuSable River was actually like a 10 or 12-inch brown trout that took a Coachman Trude off the top water. And I was just totally stoked and ran back into the fly shop the next day to tell them that I'd caught a 10 or 12-inch fish.

And I didn't know it then because I just started, but he was like, "Oh, that's a pretty good fish for your first fish." Well, the rest of the summer, you know, daytime—the AuSable I would say you can go and catch a ton of trout, but they're all going to be like three, four, five-inch trout—six-inchers you know during the day. In the evening I didn't know then that a lot of times those big fish come out like at night when the brown drakes are out and the hex are out and you're throwing mice patterns.

So it was kind of a really neat first fish to catch that 10-inch brown—just total luck I guess, but it totally got me stoked about fly fishing. And then there was an old guy in town in Grayling that he tied flies in his garage—Bob Smock was his name. And it's pretty funny because somebody that's just getting into fly fishing and everything I was reading said you got to have this, you got to have this, you know, all these latest greatest pieces of gear.

And here's Bob Smock, you know, tying all these traditional Grayling like AuSable River patterns—he was a production tier, but he would also sell flies to just guys that would come in off the street. But I would spend a lot of time in there and he's like, "You don't need this, you don't need this, you really just need this." Like he was trying to break fly fishing down to like the most bare essentials of what you need.

And like young 17, 18-year-old me was like, "All right, whatever old man." But like thinking back, like he was completely spot on—like all this extra stuff that I thought I needed, I really didn't need. You know, I needed a handful of flies and Bob knew that. And it took me like fly fishing for a number of years to realize how right he was. But as like the one person that I can remember—like a name, like Bob—like gave me, spent a ton of time with me, taught me how to tie flies, taught me a lot of the techniques of the patterns that originated out of northern Michigan. And just, you know, it was pretty neat to spend time in his shop.

**Marvin Cash (07:13):**
Yeah, that's neat. And so were you mostly kind of trout focused early on or were you chasing smallmouth and obviously steelhead, given the fact that you grew up in Michigan?

**Cameron Mortenson (07:24):**
You know what, here's the thing that's like—I really kicked myself. So I was very, very trout focused and really thought like all of fly fishing was centered around trout. I went to school in southwest Michigan for college and we had it right off the St. Joe River—like totally didn't realize like what a mecca for salmon and steelhead that river was until I moved away. And I was like, "Oh, I guess that place is kind of a big deal," because I was just getting into it.

That last year, I think I had a 5-weight and then my roommate in college had an 8-weight. And I would borrow that and go mess around with it. And I got a lake-run brown—I was in the Dowagiac River. I swung it on a bay fly that I had tied. I think it was like a green butt skunk that I had tied. And I was pretty stoked on that. And I was just getting into steelhead when I left.

But I still didn't realize how much that area was like a draw for other anglers—like a destination, a place to come fish—until I left. And so after I left, we lived out in Colorado, so everything was very, very trout-based. And it really wasn't until we moved to South Carolina about 20 years ago that I really started like deep diving into warmwater fishing and saltwater and kind of moved away from trout.

**Marvin Cash (08:53):**
Yeah. It's interesting too, because I've been lucky enough to go up and fish for steelhead in Michigan a couple of times. And I was just blown away at how fishy the entire state is.

**Cameron Mortenson (09:05):**
There's so much. And you know, I think that it's much more known now. But I mean, there's absolutely everything in Michigan. And you know, some things that like maybe don't belong there. You've got all those salmon species in the big water that run up the rivers and you've got lake-run rainbows or steelhead, whatever you want to call them. But there's tremendous warmwater fishery.

You know, anybody that follows TFM at all realizes how much I look forward to my yearly trip to Beaver Island for smallmouth and carp and pike. You know, the first couple of years we fished there, we'd every now and then see like a hammer handle pike on one of the flats. And now I mean, we're catching like 40-plus-inch pike up there. And like there's like serious numbers around there. So it's kind of neat just over the last 10 years to see a pike fishery like completely develop out of someplace where we weren't seeing it before.

So I've always been proud of the fact that I'm from Michigan. And over the years I've really enjoyed like returning back there several times a year to do different things. And it's a pretty amazing state. There's a lot of fly fishing opportunities that most people don't realize.

**Marvin Cash (10:27):**
Yeah, absolutely. And good hunting opportunities too, whether you want to hunt birds or you want to go deer hunting.

**Cameron Mortenson (10:39):**
For sure. Yeah. So how did you get interested in fiberglass?

**Marvin Cash (10:39):**
You know, my very first fly rod, which I bought out of Skip's Sports Shop, which was in Grayling—and I was looking for a fly rod. I was like 17 years old, no money, working at summer camp for a school scholarship. And so really relied on just my parents sending me a $20 bill through the mail every couple of weeks.

And I kept going into Skip's because they had an Eagle Claw Featherlight. It was matched with a Martin fly reel, a little tuna can—I think it was a model 60. And then there was a cheap level line that was put on there. And so I think the whole outfit was $60. And I would run into town like on my lunch break and I kept going into Skip's and the same employee kept seeing me come in there and like fondle this rod.

And finally one day he was like, "Hey, you know, can you at least pay like part of it and then just pay it off?" because he knew I worked at the summer camp. And he's like, "If you can just pay it off this summer, why don't you take it today and just make sure it's paid off before you leave at the end of the summer?"

And so he gave me like a handful of bluegill foam flies and I had a couple leaders and a tippet, like 5X tippet. And then that's what got me started. And this is like pre-internet. So really anything that I was going to hear about fly fishing, I was going to read either in a magazine or books at the library. And so while I'm learning how to cast and fish with this fiberglass rod, everything I read was talking about graphite.

And so very quickly I ended up putting that Featherlight away and for a number of years didn't fish glass at all and just fished—you know, bought and fished a bunch of different graphite rods. And it wasn't until we moved to South Carolina years later, where my wife is from, that I pulled out the Eagle Claw Featherlight. And I was like, "You know, this is at least fun for—we live just through the woods from my wife's family's pond, which is like this 50-acre pond. And it'd be perfect for fishing on the pond."

And started fishing that rod and was just really blown away by like how easy it was to cast, how much fun it was to put fish on it and fight fish on it. And by then, you know, the internet's like alive and well and started doing some Google searches about fiberglass fly rods and very quickly found the fiberglass fly rodders forum. And that just opened up like a Pandora's box of something completely different in fly fishing that I had learned. And very quickly started picking up different rods and a lot of vintage rods that weren't very expensive. You know, everything from $20 to $50 rods and kind of figured out what I liked and didn't like. And then just started diving deeper and deeper into glass.

**Marvin Cash (13:45):**
That's neat. And that was probably—I mean, so if TFM is almost 13 years old, if my math is correct, that's probably—I don't know, 15 to 20 years ago. You know, if someone wanted to kind of get into glass now, how would you suggest they do it?

**Cameron Mortenson (14:01):**
Well, it was about 15 or 16 years ago when I first got into glass. And at that point, there was only about a dozen rod companies, rod makers and blank makers that were messing around with glass. And so that list was really, really small. And like fast forward to now and that list—I've got a maker's list on TFM. And that list is approaching 100 and I'm definitely missing—I mean, there's some that are out of country, there's builders in Japan, there's builders in Europe and elsewhere that I'm not familiar with.

And so now there's a tremendous amount of options. And kind of the neatest thing in all of this is that there still is that $25 Eagle Claw Featherlight that you could find at Walmart, but you can also spend $1,200 for a Tom Morgan if you want to as well. So there's choices across the entire spectrum for all price points.

And kind of something that's really neat along the way is that 15 years ago, there was a lot of guys that were either building off the same blanks or they were making themselves like an 8-foot, 3-weight, a 7'6", 4-weight and an 8'5", were kind of the mainstays in contemporary glass. Fast forward to now and you've got Chris Barclay building very specific technical small stream tools. You've got Mike McFarland that does everything from small stream tools all the way up to 10, 12, 14-weights in glass for tarpon and jungle fish.

And you know, and then you've got other makers like Shane Gray that are using the best blanks from everybody to build production rods. And then you've got different fly rod companies that not only have invested in bringing back glass in their lineup or introducing glass in their lineup, but now we're like two and three generations of what those glass rods are. So the last 12 years have been really, really interesting to see how much this niche within a niche of fly fishing has grown and how much interest there is from anglers in fishing glass now.

**Marvin Cash (16:34):**
Yeah, it's interesting. And is there—you know, I know I think I've listened to previous interviews that you basically went cold turkey glass and so you don't have any graphite anymore. But is there a kind of a specific application where fiberglass rods really excel?

**Cameron Mortenson (16:49):**
Well, I would say somebody that's just like very—their interest is perked—I would always point them towards the trout weights—like if—and when I say trout weights, that's like the 3, 4, 5-weight rods. And that's great for messing around with everything from bluegill to bass to trout. But those weight rods are like a real sweet spot. They're not going to typically be super long rods. They're not going to feel heavy. You're going to be able to feel all the characteristics of fishing a glass rod.

And then once you start there, then it's like, "Oh, well, I would like maybe a longer 6-weight for doing smallmouth fishing." And then you're like, "Oh, I've got—" you know, I talked to a guy, did a presentation for a group up in New York on a Zoom call the other day. One of the guys was going to Mexico the next day. And he's like, "I'm taking a glass 8-weight with me because I want to catch a bonefish on it."

And so then it's easy to grow from there because you already understand what you like about glass in those 3, 4, 5-weights. And then you know a little bit better what to expect when it comes to a 6, an 8, a 10-weight fly rod or even like a two-hander with a switch rod. And it gives you a little bit better depth of experience than for somebody putting an 8-weight in your hand or a 10-weight and saying, "Figure this out."

**Marvin Cash (18:21):**
Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost kind of pretty similar probably to the arc most of us follow when we get into fly fishing for trout on graphite.

**Cameron Mortenson (18:29):**
Yeah, and you know what? And I would say as a tool, like a teaching tool, a 5-weight fiberglass rod is great for that because somebody that's new to fly fishing that's learning the cadence and the mechanics of casting is going to feel that rod load easier with a fiberglass rod. You know, I've watched people that I've fished with—they're all stoked about this graphite rod that they're fishing, this fast-action 6-weight or whatever. And I'm watching their casting and their arm is doing a ton of the work.

Where with glass, it ends up—you just watch that rod load. You learn the timing of it. And they end up being a great teaching tool because somebody that's new to fly casting can figure out that rhythm of what they should do because they're going to feel that rod on that backcast. They're going to know when that line unfolded behind them so when they can need to move forward with their forward cast. So from a teaching tool, it's great.

But then, you know, they just end up being great casting tools for people that are accomplished fly casters as well. I might not be able to air out an entire fly line, but I've seen very accomplished casters that weren't even familiar with glass and picked up a glass rod in 20 or 30 years. And I've seen them lay out an entire 8 or 9-weight with a glass rod. So if you know how to cast, you're going to be able to figure out that slowed down tempo that you're going to need with glass.

And you quickly realize that a glass rod is going to do a lot of the work for you, especially when you're doing things like musky fishing, big flies, heavy-weight line. It's pretty neat to watch that rod load up and then just launch, you know, like a cannon that fly line with that big fly attached to it.

**Marvin Cash (20:25):**
Yeah, it's neat. While you were talking about that, I was thinking—I vaguely remember a post on your site that was a video of Tim Rajeff talking exactly about how casting with fiberglass would make you a better all-around caster.

**Cameron Mortenson (20:38):**
And I totally believe that, you know, even if it's not something that you do all the time, just picking up a glass rod and just figuring out that tempo. And I don't think I'm an accomplished caster. I don't think I'm a great caster, but I also know that I typically don't embarrass myself when I'm in a boat with—I've had—this isn't a boast or anything, but I've had more than one guy like, "Oh, wow, you know, you can really cast that rod well."

Because I don't think they expect when the glass nerd gets in their boat, they don't expect it to be like an equivalent tool to the graphite rods that they're used to using. It might not be something that they get, dig or understand, but at least being able to get in the boat and being able to use it correctly and be able to kind of get the job done—I've always felt good about. And I just know that I feel like I'm a better caster for the time that I've spent with glass rods over—maybe not when I've struggled with graphite rods, but I just don't enjoy how much work they take a lot of times to cast.

**Marvin Cash (21:43):**
Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. And you know, so if we kind of go back to kind of—I'll just call them first generation fiberglass. And you've talked a little bit about—you know, how you've got almost 10 times as many manufacturers and builders than you had when you even started looking at it. But you've got more length variation. But kind of how has the fiberglass technology evolved? Because I'm assuming like everything else, it's not 1950s, 1960s, 1970s fiberglass that people have done things with the material and construction over time.

**Cameron Mortenson (22:17):**
So there's been a lot of back-in-the-day type deal. There was a lot of E-glass that was used. There's more S-glass that's used now. S-glass is going to be a higher modulus. So just like graphite, fiberglass has a modulus that's attached to it. It's going to be slower than, of course, than graphite fiber. But you know, like S-glass ends up being lighter. The modulus is quicker. So you're able to create rods that are lighter in hand, that are more progressive and tapered typically.

Some of your Asian rods that are coming out of Korea or China that are built for Bellas, et cetera, are using what's called T-glass. And there's a different modulus in there as well. But really everything's E, S and T. But then there's different resins. There's different ways that the fiber is used that rod builders can create. You put E-glass in the hands of Mike McFarland—he can make a fast action rod with it, where a lot of other builders would use that to create something that was slower action.

So having all these different builders put that material in their hands, they can do a lot of different things with it. But overall, you're seeing a lot more builders that are focusing on S-glass right now. I would say that there is kind of more technology and advancements in that S-glass. You've got Zentron, you know, different resins and different things that are added to it that are creating some really, really special rods right now.

**Marvin Cash (24:08):**
And so is the manufacturing process very similar to graphite in the sense of you have a mandrel and you roll it, or is it a completely different process?

**Cameron Mortenson (24:20):**
Same process. In fact, you know, a lot of the rods—I mean, a lot of times they'll use the same tables, you know, they'll roll in the same places. And the thing that's really important is a lot of times when you do that, especially if rods are coming out of Asia and they're being mass produced, they'll use the same tables for graphite as they will for fiberglass. And you'll actually find little tiny—you know, if you see these little black flecks like in a white blank, it's because it's picking up those graphite shards or fibers when they're being rolled into the glass.

And so you get those imperfections from the same rolling tables being used for glass and graphite production. So, you know, a lot of shops will keep that separate so they don't have to worry about that contamination.

**Marvin Cash (25:18):**
Yeah, that's interesting. And I know you mentioned some builders kind of earlier in the interview. But you know, who are some of the people that you're kind of—I guess, you know, you got a list of almost 100 people, so you can't watch everybody all the time. But you know, who are some of the folks that are—you think are doing some of the coolest stuff right now in fiberglass?

**Cameron Mortenson (25:38):**
You know, it's really a range. You look at somebody like Shane Gray that actually quit his full-time job to build full-time and he's done his own different signature lines of glass, but then he's also pretty much created relationships with all these different blank builders so that he can get Mark Steffen blanks. He can get Mike McFarland blanks. He can get blanks from Andrew and Rodson in Japan. He can get blanks from Swift Fly Fishing with the Epic blank. So, you know, he has all these different blanks that come into the shop and he can create things that everybody's looking for.

And then you look at Chris Barclay and he's dove deep into creating really small stream technical tools and found proprietary blank makers that he has his own blanks made for his rods and everything's very specific. So I think that an equalizer in all this is that it's pretty easy to make a website. But then something that's been really neat to see is how many different builders utilize social media as a way to tell their story, talk about things that are going on in the shop.

And so it's actually not hard to keep track of almost 100 builders because things like Instagram—I usually end the day just doing a scroll through Instagram and a lot of rod builders and rod shops pop up in that feed. So it's kind of neat to keep up with everybody and what they're doing.

And then you've got other guys like Matt Lederman that prides himself in doing a lot of the metal work that's involved with his rods and very custom builds from him. And he's a school teacher that builds rods during spring break and during the summers. So it's kind of neat to see builders develop a niche for themselves. Some of them, it's grown into a full-time job. And then other builders really keep it as something that they just do part-time when they have time around family and everything else.

**Marvin Cash (27:53):**
Yeah, it's interesting. It's kind of like a niche within a niche within a niche, right? Where people find that builder story that really resonates with them. And that's kind of who they congregate around.

**Cameron Mortenson (28:04):**
Yeah, and you know, when I first started this, my objective was to purchase a custom build from every custom builder that was around then. And you know, it was like eight different custom builders that seemed like something that was achievable. But now, fast forward, and there's 80 or 100 builders that I'm aware of and rod shops. It's A, not financially possible to spend $400 to $1,000 on all these different custom rods. And then B, how many rods can I actually fish?

So it's been pretty neat to see such an absolute spike in the number of rod builders and rod shops and taper makers. And how many really, really cool things that are out there. And it really opens up a lot of conversations with different rod companies and rod builders, like, "Hey, what's something that nobody else is doing?" And that's where you've seen switch rods and Spey rods and pack rods. And some people going super ultra lightweight with 0, 1, 2-weights and other people looking at 10, 12, 14-weights.

And so it's kind of neat to see all the different choices that are out there now that really match—you know, no matter what type of fly fishing you do, there's a fiberglass fly rod that can be a really great tool for that.

**Marvin Cash (29:34):**
Yeah, that's super neat. And I mean, part of that is probably—well, I know it is—is an outgrowth of the support that you've given that space through The Fiberglass Manifesto. And I was really curious to kind of hear kind of the creation story for the blog.

**Cameron Mortenson (29:56):**
So when I started hanging out on the fiberglass fly rodders forum, there was a portion of the forum, which I don't even think is available now, but there was a chat feature. And this is—I think our daughter was pretty young, so I mean, there just wasn't as many things going on in my life. And so I started to like kind of facilitating like a Sunday night chat. I'd jump in the chat room at like eight or nine o'clock at night and would stay in there for three or four hours.

And so that Sunday night chat, there was kind of your regulars that would come in and check in and they might hang out for a half hour, an hour and cycle out. Well, to end the night, it was always myself and then Mike Carlson. And he is in law enforcement—not in Wyoming, but he's also a rod builder. And so we had a lot of things in common because I'm in law enforcement.

And so we would talk shop and we'd talk rod building. And so one of these late night conversations back and forth, Mike was like, "It'd be really neat if we had something outside of the forum," because the forum at that time was very vintage focused and not so much talking about all the new builders that were out there. Because there just wasn't—but it was starting to pick up.

And he was like, "You know, it'd be kind of neat if there was like an online magazine or a blog or a website where outside of the forum, people were talking about everything that was going on in glass." And that's about the time that some of the online magazines were coming out, like Catch Magazine, This Is Fly. It was still a kind of emerging technology to have these flip-style magazines.

And I'll never forget it. It was like 10:30 or 11 o'clock at night. And I typed back to him. I was like, "You know, what would we call it?" And he immediately typed back "The Fiberglass Manifesto." And I was like, "Huh, that was kind of a catchy name." But certainly I didn't have the knowledge or know-how to start something online-based. And neither did Mike.

And so we kind of let it sit for a number of months. But we'd talk about it now and again. And then one night I was like, "Hey, do you mind if I try to do something with that Fiberglass Manifesto name?" And I ended up doing a Google search for how to start a blog. And it linked me to Blogger and registered the name and just absolutely didn't know what I was doing, but just started putting a post up every few days.

And over time that kind of picked up and I was really—saw it as a creative outlet for me and just started writing it a couple of times a week. And then that turned into almost daily. And then that turned into daily, a couple of posts a day. And, you know, fast forward 13 years and I think we're pushing like 5,200 posts. Like it's still going. And I might not be as prolific as I was before. Actually, like during COVID, I was able to start pumping out like three posts a day for a while. You know, it's still around.

So I still don't pretend to know what I'm doing. I still don't pretend that I'm doing it right, but I have a good time doing it. And it's been neat to be a source for everything fiberglass and then other things along the way.

**Marvin Cash (33:38):**
Yeah, very neat. And of course, I don't think people can think about TFM and not think about the Comrade logo. So where did you get the idea for the design?

**Cameron Mortenson (33:48):**
So the first logo I started using was Jeff Kennedy. I was doing a project called Fishing Flies 365. Essentially, he was developing a piece of fly art every day for 365 days straight. One of the pieces was what he had put on there called the RetroFly. It was this stencil that looked like he had spray painted through it to create this very stylized fly. I had been looking for something to put on a t-shirt and just messaged him, "Hey, you know, is that something I could use for TFM?" Not even thinking that it would end up being a logo, but just something to run with. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, go ahead."

And you know, that was 12 years ago. And fast forward to now, it's like there's still stuff with RetroFly on it. And then maybe a year or two after that, Rob from Bugslinger—and I don't know if you remember that brand, but it was an apparel brand and he was doing all of his own artwork and he was also working with Buff on doing some of their buffs under like a Bugslinger logo. And now he works for Boat that makes inflatable and all kinds of different paddle boards.

I sent him an idea one day—I think I'd seen a propaganda poster and I was like, "Hey, what do you think about having a fist holding a fly rod and love it if it was very obviously a glass rod?" And I was very into J.W. Young reels at that time and collecting them. And I was like, "It would be neat if there was like—this is the fly reels—the Baldex made by J.W. Young like in the 1950s—do you think you could create something?"

Literally two hours later in a volley of emails, we completely hashed out that Comrade logo and had the illustrator art very quickly. So over the course of like a morning, we went from idea to completed art. And that ended up being a run of t-shirts, actually several runs of t-shirts, stickers. And I'm like beyond surprised that that logo has so much draw to it. Even today.

I would love to do a new logo, but I just haven't had the time to concentrate on it. But it's also pretty neat to see the RetroFly and Comrade logos still resonate with people so much. And so there's also kind of like, if it's not broke, why fix it type look at it as well.

**Marvin Cash (36:34):**
Yeah. I mean, I certainly have seen that out West. I've seen plenty of SCOF buttons and all kinds of stuff like that. And yeah, it is super cool. And you know, the logo kind of reminds me of those college band posters, like before people had Illustrator where they would make—cut the pictures out and make the band poster or whatever it was. It's really, really cool.

**Cameron Mortenson (36:59):**
Well, and it's—yeah, I really always will appreciate Jeff Kennedy and Rob let me use their artwork. And it's been neat that people immediately connect TFM to those two logos.

**Marvin Cash (37:17):**
Yeah. And it's interesting too, because I mean, I know you started it to really promote fiberglass, but I kind of remember in the early days—I think there was a large kind of non-fiberglass community that was around you in like Southern Culture on the Fly was new. There was Gink and Gasoline and it was a really neat time kind of in the early days of TFM in like Western North Carolina and upstate South Carolina. And you know, for folks that aren't familiar with that, you want to tell them a little bit about what it was like back then in terms of the community?

**Cameron Mortenson (37:52):**
Yeah, I mean, I think there was a lot going on from a media standpoint and everybody was kind of close together, you know, between Charleston, Atlanta, Asheville. I'm in Columbia area, within two or three hours of each other. There was an incredible lot of activity that was going on. And a lot of that was playing off of each other too. You know, you had Paul Puckett doing flood tide stuff. You had Dave and Steve doing Southern Culture on the Fly. You had Lewis doing Gink and Gasoline.

And we all play well together. And so if somebody was doing something somewhere, it was like there was always this open invite. Like, "Hey, come down there, throw a table up, bring some stickers and let's do something." And then Steve had like the perfect hangout—I don't know if you went to anything that was at the studio. But he did several fly tying events that were just like bring your vise, bring your stuff you want to tie and come hang out at the studio. And they were kind of wild times.

And, you know, it's kind of neat though because there was a lot of anglers—I think no matter where you're at, people want to have a club in some place that they feel like they're a part of. And you see that in fly shops. You see that and we definitely saw it in Western North Carolina with SCOF. And it was kind of neat that first year that everybody was tying flies—everything was very local based. It was trout flies, it was midges, stuff that you'd use on the Davidson and stuff used on the Blue Line.

And then fast forward two years and everybody's still in the room tying flies, but then everybody was getting stoked on musky. And suddenly everybody that was tying midges before is now tying these huge musky flies. And so it was really neat to see all the synergy that was going on around it. And then you had Reva that was doing the Western North Carolina Fly Fishing Show. There was always a big fly fishing film tour event at Highland Brewery.

And I just think there is a really family aspect of like, if one person was doing something, they were always inviting everybody else to come along and do it as well. And that's still going on in smaller ways, but it's just—well, I think COVID derailed a lot of it. We're just now starting to get back in the swing of actually doing in-person events. But for a number of years there, it was just—it was pretty neat. You know, there was always something going on and there was always open invites and it developed a community. And I think you're still seeing that kind of ever-reaching in that Southeast area.

**Marvin Cash (40:39):**
Yeah. I think so much too is—I mean, we have such a diverse fishery in the Southeast, right. And that helped a ton too, because it wasn't just trout. It was like smallmouth, musky, redfish, everything.

**Cameron Mortenson (40:53):**
Yeah. You know, it wasn't—it's not beating the drum that everybody's suddenly going to end up on the same stream fishing on top of each other. Everybody had different interests and it was all about kind of holding up all those different fisheries and all the different things you can do. And it was really, I think, opened a lot of people's eyes, like how many different opportunities there are beyond just fishing native brook trout streams. You've got redfish, you've got striper, you've got shad runs, you've got maybe a secret tarpon fishery down in Charleston. You've got all these different things that can keep you interested in doing something different than everybody else.

**Marvin Cash (41:36):**
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned a little bit earlier in the interview that—you know, you literally were Googling how to start a blog. And I was kind of curious—did you just kind of continue for everything that you've done with TFM on the digital media side teaching yourself? Or did you have some folks that kind of mentored you along the way?

**Cameron Mortenson (41:56):**
It was a lot of self-teaching, but there was also a lot of watching what other people were doing. And you know, that was very—somewhat early on in Facebook. I mean, there's Facebook personal pages, but then business pages and the whole idea of having a business page for Twitter. And then there's Instagram that came along. And that's kind of been where I've focused. I'm not on TikTok. I'm not on Snapchat.

But those three platforms and then just watching those develop and just really watching other brands and companies that I thought that they were doing it the right way, figuring that out. I would say Marshall from Mid Current was always super helpful. And then somebody that probably did more than I ever expected to do would be Brian from Moldy Chum. He reached out very early on and was super helpful and super just—just let me know that it was neat to see me doing something that was a niche within fly fishing.

And he worked at Patagonia then and was helpful in some ways that way. And if I ever had questions, he was always willing to help. And fast forward, and now he's still always lent out. When I was trying to figure out how to monetize TFM with some ad revenue, he was helpful in that where I was kind of lost on how to make that step. And it was just—he never tried to hide anything. And he's always been a good friend. And so I appreciate that.

So but it was a lot of watching what other people were doing. Like sometimes watching other people's missteps. I mean, social media is a weird thing and learning how to use that and use it correctly. So is a process and still learning it today of what works and what doesn't work.

**Marvin Cash (43:54):**
It's interesting. Do you remember a particular moment when you knew you really were onto something really special with TFM?

**Cameron Mortenson (44:04):**
Well, there was one year early on where I didn't even know about what IFTD was then. And Scott Fly Rod announced the Fiber Hammer, which was a glass switch rod. And it gets announced at the show. And that day I get like a dozen emails asking me what I know about the Fiber Hammer. I knew zero about the Fiber Hammer. I had no idea what it was. Didn't know anybody at Scott Fly Rods.

And that was a wake-up call for me that if I'm going to be the guy that is trying to be the source of knowledge and the landing page for people interested in glass, then I needed to start doing my homework on and following up on every rumor I needed to introduce myself to all the different rod companies.

And so the next year, I believe it was the next year, I flew out to Denver. I went to IFTD and I went with business cards. I walked up and down every row and just introduced myself and had a short conversation with everybody there. I think that first year I handed out 300 business cards. In fact, day three I was hoarse—I was spent.

And I'll never forget talking to Tim Rajeff in the Echo booth and he was spent, I was spent and we just looked at each other. And I didn't know—I barely knew him, just met him that day. And he's like, "Yeah, we are both not good for this conversation." And at that point they weren't doing glass. And then like a year and a half, two years later, he just called me out of the blue and was like, "Hey, let's talk glass. What should we be doing?"

So that told me I was on the right path. And then for the huge myth with the Fiber Hammer—like two years later, Scott circled back and was like, "Hey, we're releasing a new generation of the Fiber Touch. We'd love to do our news release first with TFM." So I kind of felt like that was a pat on the back—I was doing things the right way that a company that didn't even know who I was and I didn't really know what they were doing, fast forward a couple of years and they were doing their big launch news release on TFM. So I felt like I was on the right path. And, you know, since then, if I can even get a little whiff of somebody doing something glass, it's figuring out who I need to make a phone call to or email to. And it's been kind of neat to run down leads throughout the industry.

**Marvin Cash (46:45):**
Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, IFTD is like Woodstock. I mean, I don't know, like the consumer shows are fun, but I mean, if you're into it, I just think it's just mind-blowing. Awesome.

**Cameron Mortenson (46:57):**
Yeah. And you know, that first year I handed out 300 cards. The next year, I think I handed out 75 and it was a lot of reconnecting. And the next year, I think I handed out two dozen cards because it was like by then, it's a very small industry. You're seeing the same faces over and over. And I was really blown away that first year—people knew what TFM was. That kind of blew my mind that here I'm just working on a little project every morning before work. And it's like people in the industry kind of knew what it was. So pretty neat. You know, it's been fun to have a circle of friends and contacts. I do law—I'm in law enforcement full time, but then to have a circle outside of that has been pretty beneficial to me as well.

**Marvin Cash (47:48):**
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have a kind of a biggest surprise or biggest lesson you've learned while you've been doing TFM?

**Cameron Mortenson (47:56):**
Well, I think there's a huge—like I said, I don't think I know what I'm doing or if I'm doing it right, but I'm one of a handful of people that have just kept at it. I've seen over the years a lot of people reach out and they want to start a fly fishing blog. They want to do something within the industry and they've got a lot of great ideas. And then I see them fizzle out sometimes a few weeks into it, sometimes a few months into it.

I think with TFM, there's a benefit to just keeping at it. You know, I find spelling errors, I find grammatical errors on the website every day when I circle back on it. But it's just been something I've just hammered away on. And it's given me a ton of opportunities I wouldn't have had otherwise. It's been a great creative relief. And so for those things, it's just been beneficial for me to just keep at it along the way.

And I would say for anybody that has an interest in doing a creative project like that—don't get discouraged. Don't look at how many people are reading it today. In fact, when I first started TFM, I didn't even know how to figure out—I would say the internet was still pretty rudimentary when it came to understanding and attaching metrics and how many readers you have. I just didn't know for the first couple of years.

And then when I did attach it, then it would give me historical data. And I could see two people checked it, five people checked it. And then it increased to 30 people. And then it increased over time—increased to a couple hundred. And then it was 1,200 people a day that were checking into it. And so I might have been discouraged the first couple of years if I knew those metrics instead of just doing it and not knowing if my mom was the only one checking it.

So I would always say don't get hung up on how many people are reading it today because you're going to—if you keep at it, there's somebody that's going to find the website three years from now that's going to circle back and read everything from the beginning. And every now and then I'll get an email from somebody that would be like, "Hey, you know, I broke my leg and I've got nothing but time. And I actually just read the website backwards all the way to the beginning. I learned so much," or, you know, they appreciate it for what it is.

So I would just say keep at it. There's benefits. It's worth it to keep at it. And it can give you a lot of purpose and focus just to keep continually sharpening the knives on whatever that is that you're doing.

**Marvin Cash (50:37):**
Yeah. I think the podcasting game is exactly like that too. I mean, I think you just need to be authentic and you need to commit to consistently showing up.

**Cameron Mortenson (50:47):**
And I think if you do it, it works. If you keep at it, it works. And you know, the last go-around—the last IFTD I was at, there were like three bloggers, but there were dozens and dozens and dozens of podcasters. So podcasters are the new bloggers. And so it's been interesting even since then to see how many of those podcasters are still at it.

Because I think a lot of people are coming to podcasts now thinking there's a pot of gold there and the swag truck is going to back itself up to the front door and make those big drop-offs. But it's the guys like you that started something, they've continued at it, they've created a schedule with it and they've kept it interesting. And you develop a listenership and it's—same—it's consistency and it's just keeping at it. Yeah. And you're going to get better along the way and you're going to have fun along the way of doing it. And you can't start out worrying about is this going to be successful—it's going to be successful if you keep at it.

**Marvin Cash (51:50):**
Yeah, it's interesting too. I think the interesting thing—and there's probably an analog in the blog world, but there's a real kind of independent corporate thing going on in podcasting right now, right. And not to say that corporate people can't be authentic, but there's much more of a kind of a—you know, what I call stealth advertising approach going on in a lot of places. And it's not just fly fishing, it's everywhere.

**Cameron Mortenson (52:19):**
Right, and that's an interesting thing to kind of watch. Yeah. And you know, bloggers went through the same thing years ago—they were trying to form these collaboratives. Like if we had these 10 blogs together, then we'd be able to show these massive numbers, which then we could get advertisers and then everybody would get a piece of the pie. And I don't know. I've always felt like just being—just being in charge of me and being responsible for what I'm doing is probably the best way to do this.

You know, if I can put content out every day, great. If I can catch up with emails and keep up with that, great. But if I can't, I'm just responsible to myself. And I think you're seeing that with podcasts too, where you're seeing these groups of podcasts rope together for ad revenue. And I don't know, that's all too complicated for me. And I just felt like that would not be a good fit for what TFM is.

And overall, and most importantly, I never wanted to lose the authenticity. I very much worried when I brought advertisers into it, if people would be—that had read it for two or three years—be like, "Oh, well, this was the end game," and just write it off. But I think people understood that—I mean, this ended up turning into a part-time job for me beyond what the 40 or 50 hours, 60 hours I work at work. I was still putting time into TFM. There was an understanding that I needed to make a little bit of scratch to cover trips and whatever else through some advertising, but I've always tried to keep it as authentic as possible.

**Marvin Cash (54:04):**
Well, yeah, I think too—I mean, kind of on a related point, I'm always very sensitive to not hacking people's attention and trying to not blow the whistle in an inauthentic way.

**Cameron Mortenson (54:24):**
Yeah, I think it's important. I think people pick that up pretty easily now. And I think with influencers and everything that social media is, I think people sniff through that pretty quick now.

**Marvin Cash (54:35):**
Yeah. And so, you know, how has your approach either to executing on TFM or generating content kind of changed over the arc?

**Cameron Mortenson (54:48):**
You know, I think a lot of it stayed the same. I mean, I figured out what works and what doesn't work. And then I get really excited about different ways that content can be generated. You know, I'm working on something that might happen later this year on a trip. And it's not just, "Well, let's highlight this fishery for two or three days," but let's bring a noted fly tier that's local along and deep dive into his fly box.

And oh, there's an author that wrote a book about these native bass species that are there. Let's try to do something with him. And there's an artist that's local there that has been really deep into conservation of this bass species in this area. And it's trying to fit all these other puzzle pieces so that it's not just, "We did three fun days on the water," but there's all these other portions of it and ways to highlight it. So that's been fun.

And I've always looked at TFM as—I know people don't come to just read about glass and especially in the early days when not that many people were tracking on it. And so I always kind of looked at it as a puzzle. And if I'm in a routine of putting two posts up a day, it might be a glass piece and it might be an online magazine sharing the latest issue from somebody. And the next day might be a video and it might be a gear review. And so you're piecing together every day something that's just a little bit different so that it's not just fiberglass talk, fiberglass talk, fiberglass talk. You're kind of really varying that content up day to day.

**Marvin Cash (56:33):**
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And, you know, we've kind of touched on this a little bit about the importance of showing up regularly. But you know, you're a dad, you have two kids just like I do. You got a day job. How have you figured out the way to kind of juggle all of that and still consistently put out content for TFM?

**Cameron Mortenson (56:53):**
Well, my wife works from home and she starts work between five and 5:30. And so we've just got really conditioned to getting up early. And then I don't know—I'm in my mid-40s and for the last couple of years, especially during COVID, I was waking up at three in the morning multiple days in a row. And it's amazing what you can get done from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. if you don't whittle away your time on Facebook.

So it's been a lot of early mornings. And as I get older I'm not that sharp at the end of the day, so I'm much more apt to fall asleep early and then get up—this last week or so I've been getting up about 4 a.m., make a pot of coffee and then spend about 90 minutes just working on content and answering emails.

And I've been shipping out—I did a—finally did hats. People have been asking for ball caps for a while. And shipped out probably 200 hat orders over the last couple of weeks. And so I've been working on that early in the morning too. So it's a juggle. And as you know, I've got a—we've got a 15-year-old, almost 16 and our son is about to turn 12. And so it's juggling their schedules and playing taxi to them and work is always busy and stuff going on at church and stuff going on with family.

It's a juggle and it continues to be a juggle. But it's always been something I've enjoyed and it's been a creative release. And man, it's something I look forward to and I get excited about thinking about new content ideas. And it's been pretty neat that something that's been going on for almost 13 years—I still get super stoked and excited about it.

**Marvin Cash (58:42):**
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, what's your vision for TFM say in five years or 10 years?

**Cameron Mortenson (58:50):**
Well, this summer I'll have 20 years of law enforcement. And so if I make it another five years, then I can possibly retire. Not to say that I'm going to be able to do that. But if TFM can keep going for five years, it's going to help me mentally reach that milestone and then kind of see what's beyond that. And so I would—the biggest thing is just keeping going with what's happening.

You know, in 13 years we're pushing almost 100 builders and rod makers and rod shops. Kind of interesting to see what's going to happen in glass over the next five years and then what's going to happen the next five years past that. When I started TFM, I would have never imagined that we'd be at almost 13 years and I'd still be hacking away at it. And so it's not something that I've ever thought about stopping.

But then the other thing is—I wonder how much longer people read blogs. And actually COVID was a real boom for that because I think that it brought people back to finding content in ways they hadn't before or hadn't for a while. You know, I've been really dependent on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, whatever. I really saw readership spike over COVID.

And I also think people were coming into fly fishing and other things in the outdoors because they suddenly had time to do it and look at it. So I can see through Google search results or whatever that people are finding the website looking for gear reviews and looking for content about things that they're suddenly—newfound interest in. So who knows where TFM will be, but hopefully I can keep working away at it. I still have a lot of fun doing it.

**Marvin Cash (01:00:45):**
Absolutely. Do you have anything kind of on the near horizon that you want to share with our listeners?

**Cameron Mortenson (01:00:49):**
Well, I thought I was going to do this when TFM turned 12, but I think I'm going to do it this year now. So I'm trying to work out the time. But back in the day, for longtime readers, I used to do 12 Days of Christmas and it was like a pretty significant giveaway or multiple giveaways every day for 12 days in December.

And I really feel like 13 years of doing this is kind of monumental. And so I've been working on what I'm going to call the Lucky 13 giveaways. And they're going to be—instead of doing daily giveaways, they're going to be week or maybe even two-week-long giveaways. And they're going to—for example, if we're giving away an Orvis outfit during that week or two weeks, we're also going to be able to pull back and talk about old content—my visit to the rod shop in Vermont, times where I fished with the Orvis crew, visiting headquarters in Manchester—all these different things and use that week to talk about everything Orvis.

The next contest is Swift Fly Fishing. Go back and talk about and do updated Q&As, pull old interviews from back in the day and refresh old content. And so there'll be a series of 13 pretty significant giveaways that we'll do. But it'll be a way to create new content, new Q&As, new interviews, new gear reviews, but then also give away some pretty significant things for the 13 weeks.

So I've got everybody signed up for it. Now it's just to dial in the dates and make sure that I've got time to pull this off the way I want to so that it gives it the focus that it deserves. So look for that. I don't have a start date for it, but hopefully in the next few weeks or month or so, we can get those started and kind of run us right through to the end of the year when TFM actually turns 13.

So I would say that's the big thing. And then now that I've been vaccinated and travel seems like a go again, I've got some striper trips that are out of state and in state and my big trip to Michigan this summer. And then talking about maybe doing something in the Southeast and do some native bass fishing. So I'm trying to figure out a way to get to Belize maybe this summer or fall. I'd still love to catch a permit, which I haven't done yet. It hasn't been from lack of trying, but it's been a fun process with that too. So we'll see. We're just plugging away at it.

**Marvin Cash (01:03:41):**
Yeah, that's a pretty full dance card. And before I let you hop this evening, Cameron, you want to let folks know where they can find the blog and find you on social media and all that kind of good stuff?

**Cameron Mortenson (01:03:51):**
So you can check in the website at thefiberglassmanifesto.com. Active on Facebook, active on Twitter. I would say most active on Instagram. And even if I'm not posting something every day, I try to mess around with stories. I think Instagram stories is kind of a neat way to either share things that I'm doing. And also I'll grab things that I think are pretty neat along the way on Instagram and share that as well.

So always my email—thefiberglassmanifesto at gmail.com. If you've got glass questions, definitely reach out. I love helping spend other people's money when they want a new fly rod and want some direction. Have a good time helping people with that as well.

**Marvin Cash (01:04:42):**
Yeah, very cool. And I'll drop all that stuff in the show notes. Well, Cameron, I really appreciate you taking some time out this evening to chat with me. It's been a lot of fun.

**Cameron Mortenson (01:04:52):**
Well, I had a great time too and hopefully I didn't ramble on too much.

**Marvin Cash (01:04:55):**
Not at all. Have a great one.

**Cameron Mortenson:**
You too.

**Marvin Cash:**
Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Again, if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. Tight lines, everybody.