S5, Ep 51: Nymphing Essentials with Jason Randall Pt II

Marvin Cash: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. And we're back with another episode of Nymphing Essentials with Jason Randall. This time we're talking about getting the drift. How are you, Jason?

Jason Randall: I'm great, Marvin, thanks. How you doing tonight?

Marvin Cash: As always, I'm just trying to stay out of trouble. And you know, last time we talked about getting in the zone and this time we're going to talk about getting the drift. You know, why is it important and how do we get our flies and how should we present our flies in the zone?

Jason Randall: Well, getting that drift is really the second goal in our three part objective. We outlined those objectives, the three objectives to success at nymph fishing as getting your flies to the strike zone, getting the right drift, and then having accuracy and strike detection. If we meet those three objectives, we're going to catch more fish.

So the second one is getting the drift. And we know from the last episode that the strike zone is typically that bottom 20% of the water column near the bottom where the food is, where the trout are, where our flies need to be. But we also defined that strike zone, that bottom 20% because of friction at the stream bed as moving half speed relative to the current overhead.

So if the food that trout are eating is moving at half speed, how fast should our flies be moving?

Marvin Cash: Yeah, half speed.

Jason Randall: Half speed. Right. Exactly right. But if we take our presentation, our drift, and we attach it to a flotation device like a large plastic indicator, and that indicator is at the surface moving at nearly the fastest speed of the current. How fast is that drift actually moving?

Marvin Cash: Full speed.

Jason Randall: It's moving full speed, which is why we're not catching fish. So in order to get the best presentation, we have literally got to slow the drift of those flies down to the same speed that the natural organisms are drifting at in the strike zone.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, that's really interesting. And so, you know, I guess we talk about techniques. You want to kind of break it down. I mean there are lots of different ways to do this. You want to kind of start, we can kind of walk through them with a different method.

Jason Randall: Sure. Probably one of the easiest methods to getting that ideal drift speed because drift speed and presentation are synonymous. To get a good drag-free presentation, we've got to get that drift speed at about half speed of the current that we see from the surface.

But one of the methods that are probably the easiest to achieve that are the tight-line, high-sticking or Euro-nymphing methods where we have a single point of entry and that tippet cuts through the overhead faster current and allows our flies to track at the slower current of the strike zone.

And the thinner the material, the better it cuts through that current overhead with less weight than incorporated into our drift. Now when we look at flotation devices then, and we're trying to get a drift speed that's slower than the surface, it stands to reason then that the smaller the strike indicator that we use or we select, the better it is for us to get that natural drift speed. It's harder to get a good drift speed with a flotation device that's the size of a Christmas tree. Right?

Marvin Cash: Yeah. It's just like when we were kids, right. We talked about, I think when we did our last interview about fishing on cane poles. And you can either use a big round bobber or you can use one of those needle bobbers, right?

Jason Randall: That's right. That's right. There's different choices. Sometimes it's the choice of flotation device that can help us. Sometimes it's balancing our rigs when we're using a flotation device so that we're using the smallest device that will suspend our flies and then just adding enough weight, either incorporating that into the flies or you know, with additional weight added to the rig then to get drift speed.

But no matter what method we choose, we really need to get that drift speed to reflect that slower speed of the strike zone.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so when we talk about suspension devices, I mean, I kind of guess off the top of my head we kind of talked about basically Thingamabobbers and thills and things like that. But I guess you've also, you've got like New Zealand yarn. Right. Which gives you a little bit more control and more visual cues. But then also like I think about you know, maybe using some of those like stick on foam, little squares that you can kind of stick on your leader that's a little bit less intrusive.

Jason Randall: Right. And I think that the choice of indicators is really important. And I usually will select the method of nymph fishing whether it's a suspension device or whether it's a tight-line or Euro-nymphing style based on the water.

When we're talking about really, really fast water or deeper water or opaque water, water where the surface is broken, the fish that are in those feeding positions beneath that water have a high degree of confidence in their safety. We call that a high confident lie. A lot of things can raise the confidence of fish and their safety during feeding. You know, the even overhead protection of branches and streamside vegetation or shade can raise their confidence.

But whenever trout are feeding with confidence, I usually can get close enough to them to use one of these tight-line, high-sticking Euro-nymphing techniques that will allow me to get in close proximity to the trout.

By comparison, when trout are feeding in low confident lies, which would be maybe shallow water, slower moving water, gin clear water, exposed, vulnerable situations, very spooky. They're anxious, they're very nervous about their vulnerability and that's a low confident lie. And so my selection then I can't get close enough to do a tight-line or a close proximity Euro-nymphing technique. I've got to back up and respect their anxiety over their vulnerability.

And then I'm going to use maybe a suspension device. But if in that situation I were to drop a large Christmas tree size ornament in a flotation device over their head, they're going to spook anyway. So I've got to choose something that lands with subtlety and minimal disruption to their feeding activity or I will spook them.

So in that situation I've got to make the right choice again. Where I use large plastic devices will usually be from long range distances or from drift boats where I just can't get close enough or I need to establish a drift for a further position away. But when I'm fishing from long range over a low confident fish, I would be more likely to use the New Zealand strike indicator or a small tuft of yarn. Or I might float a sighter for Euro-nymphing or I might use you know, something that's really, really subtle that won't disturb their feeding.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, and so you know, when we talk about floating the sighter, you know, folks aren't familiar with that. It's really not that dissimilar from greasing your leader. If you're trying to fish like emergers in the film, right, so you take mucillin or gink, and you basically coat the sighter and maybe the leader and it'll kind of float up so you can see it a little bit better.

Jason Randall: That's exactly right. We're just trying to extend that range a little bit further so that we can start that drift from greater distance. Essentially we're using that grease segment of the leader then to kind of float up on the surface while the fly sinks. So it's acting as a pseudo suspension device until we get that drift a little bit closer where we can tight-line it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And you know, you can clean if you have to switch up. Actually, it really doesn't matter if you're nymphing because it won't be in the water. But if you ever need to get that stuff off your sighter, you can use your amadou or a handkerchief. And then I know Loon and a couple other companies make a, I think it's basically like fuller's earth and a paste that'll kind of take that greasy sheen off of the sighter for you.

Jason Randall: That's right. That's right. Yeah, you can dull it back up and get it back to where it was.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, and also too, you know, one of the things we're talking about, like using the indicators, you're talking about not scaring fish. You know, one of the things I think people should think about too is making sure that they, you know, cast upstream far enough and you know, if you have spooky fish, the farther maybe the better. But also you got to give your flies time to get down in the zone before they get to where the fish are.

Jason Randall: Yep, that's true. You know, and I like those, I like a lot of yarn indicators. In that situation, they're not real strong suspenders, especially the smaller pieces of yarn, like New Zealand style indicators, they won't suspend big heavy flies. But when I'm fishing in that kind of a situation, maybe shallower water, gin clear, slower moving water, low confident lies. I'm not using big flies anyway, so I don't need a suspension device that will float heavy flies.

And so that's where I'm really relying on that system. So everything, the smaller flies, the smaller bits of yarn strike indicators, everything lands very softly with minimal disruption just to scatter those fish. So ideally situated for low confident, spooky fish.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And we've talked before, I know you like to, you know, change the weight of your flies. But kind of, you know, when we're, particularly when we're talking about fishing suspension devices, kind of. What's your philosophy on split shot, tungsten putty and things like that.

Jason Randall: Typically I'll put the weight in the flies because if I choose the right suspension device, which is usually the smallest one that I can get that will float my flies, that will still suspend the flies. Then I don't have to put a lot of extra extraneous weight in my rig. And I can usually just use maybe a slightly larger bead head nymph, maybe a 3.5 millimeter bead, you know, with a little bit of lead in that. And then I'll oftentimes I'll put that with a less weighted fly and I can still get those flies to depth without adding additional weight.

Because when I add additional weight, if I added ahead of my flies, then I've interrupted the connectivity that I have between me and the flies. I'm now connected between me and the weight. And I've lost contact literally with those flies. And I mean this fish as a result.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, got it. And you know, just like we did in episode one, we'll talk about kind of the short version for how to get a good drift, because we'll go into it more in more detail when we go through folks questions.

Jason Randall: But yeah, getting a good drift is really all about getting drift speed. Drift speed and presentation are synonymous. I really want to get a drift speed that's reflective of the half speed of the strike zone, not full speed of the current that I might see from the surface. So whatever method you're choosing and however you're going to rig it, we really want to try to shoot for that drift speed that's lower than the surface current, so that it's a natural drag-free presentation to the trout that are feeding near the bottom.

But when again in slower moving water, that water flows from medium and slower to slower moving water. You know, it's okay to rig a little bit differently. And then, you know, we want our flies at different depths. Maybe we want one fly close to the bottom. We want a fly at mid current, because that strike zone does open up and fish will oftentimes feed from bottom to top.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so if you were tight-line nymphing, what would be kind of a cliff notes version of the cues you're looking for to know that you're down?

Jason Randall: Well, you can usually get information, feedback on the quality of your drift. And troubleshooting is a huge part of the classes that we teach. When we teach these boot camps or classes, the fly fishing shows, we really focus a lot. Sometimes we spend over an hour on just troubleshooting the drift. What are the tells or the feedback that we can get from every drift that tells us that we're reaching not only the first two objectives, but all three objectives.

And it's usually the Cliff Notes version then of the short version is it's usually based on drift speed. Because if our flies descend to the strike zone, as they reach the strike zone, they begin to slow down and then we can see the slower speed in our drift. And we can then know that not only are our flies in the strike zone, but they're moving at the appropriate speed because the strike zone, it's the speed of the strike zone when our flies reach it that slows the entire drift.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's kind of interesting because I guess my experience with that is you cast and if you're not tight instantly kind of swinging the flies into the zone, you'll kind of. Things will be kind of moving fast and then all of a sudden it'll slow down.

Jason Randall: Right, right. You'll see it, you'll actually. And you're a very experienced angler. You're an educator in the fly fishing sport as well. You know this, you can see the point when all of a sudden your drift slows down. And you know, okay, I've reached the goals, I've seen my drift slow down. And there's things that you can do like learning the tuck cast. And that's one of the things we teach and emphasize a great deal, classes is that we're teaching the tuck cast because that tuck cast allows a vertical descent and delivery of our flies to the strike zone before the current really has a chance to accelerate drift. And so we can maximize the amount of time our flies are in the strike zone with the appropriate drift by doing something as simple as a tuck cast.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And then, you know, to kind of go to the second half of the Cliff Notes for suspension devices, a little bit of a different game. Right. Because we, the water is moving faster at the top than it is at the bottom. So what are the cues there?

Jason Randall: Well, the key is, we talk about the balanced rig when we talk about suspension devices. And again, this is one of the things we emphasize in these two or three hour long classes is that balancing the amount of flotation effect against the amount of weight. And so that we are balancing those two, choosing the smallest suspension device that we can get away with and then adding sufficient weight to get our drift speed. And we can, you can see it, and there are some indicators that are readable. We call them readable indicators and there's several of them on the market that will actually give you feedback of when you are reaching these three goals.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's neat too, because I know for sure the New Zealand ones will do that because they point straight up.

Jason Randall: It does.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Jason Randall: And the Raven folks will do that as well.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Jason Randall: And there's several different, like you described initially, the thills and some of those floats that we borrow from panfish and bass in bait and tackle. Those are really oftentimes very readable.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting too because I know some of my comp fishing friends are super compulsive about this on the suspension device front when they don't fish in comps and they'll actually have the weight of the flies match perfectly to the indicators so that like one more, you know, grain of salt will basically move the indicator so that they can detect the strikes a little bit better. I don't know, I'm not quite that obsessive but.

Jason Randall: Well, that's what we call the balanced rig though. You're right on, right on the mark with that. That's really a good observation.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And you know folks, we love questions and we're doing these for you. And so we've got two great promotions to encourage you to send questions and, you know, make Jason's life a little bit easier. If you'll DM me on Instagram or shoot me an email at mcash@articulatefly.com I'll grab your question. Anything related to any of the episodes, we'd love to answer them.

And what we're going to do is everyone that submits a question will get enter a drawing for a signed copy of Nymph Masters from Jason. But then if we select your question for the final episode, those folks are going to get into a drawing for a TFO stealth rod with a matching reel and an SA Euro-nymphing line. So want to give a shout out to our friends at TFO and SA for generously supporting this little project of ours.

Jason Randall: Yeah, it's great that so many reputable manufacturers support education in our sport. It's wonderful.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I know talking about doing schools and you're kind of recovering from the show season, even if you did it by way of Alaska. But I do know that you and Mac Brown. Yeah, I do know that you and Mac Brown are doing a boot camp in the Driftless area in June. You want to let folks know about that?

Jason Randall: Yeah, we're really excited about that. You know it's, Mac and I, we love to work with other and we have a lot of fun. But our skills and our educational program are very complimentary and we just enjoy the time we spend at these boot camps. And it really gives us a three day to really dig into these topics and to spend time and in casting and hands on demonstrations and on stream critiques and things like that where you can really take what you've covered in the morning session and you can take it right to the stream in the afternoon and put it right into practice and learn how to troubleshoot those drifts and how to know when you're doing it right.

And it's just amazing. And then afterwards usually we finish up and after dinner it's kind of a prolonged happy hour where some of the best information is swapped around the bar at night. And Mac and I both, the more drinks they buy, the more we talk and the more freely we share information.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, absolutely. And I will drop a link to the boot camp as well. As folks, the illustrations will be in the show notes. And Jason, I will drop all of your social media handles and website and all that good stuff in the show notes too.

Jason Randall: That'd be perfect. Thanks for doing that, Marvin.

Marvin Cash: Oh you betcha. And you know folks, spring is here, you owe it to yourself. Put some of the stuff that Jason and I have been talking about to use and go out there and catch a few tight lines everybody. Tight lines Jason.

Jason Randall: Thanks Marvin. Good night.