S5, Ep 70: Kevin Howell of Davidson River Outfitters

Marvin Cash (00:04): Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. In this episode, I'm joined by fly fishing guru, Kevin Howell. Kevin shares his experiences growing up and fishing in Western North Carolina, the backstory of Davidson River Outfitters and all of the details for DRO's 30th anniversary celebration.

I think you're really going to enjoy this one. But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

And a shout out to this episode's sponsor. Our friends at Southern Culture on the Fly recently dropped their spring issue. You can check it out and all of the other skullduggery at www.southerncultureonthefly.com. Rumor has it, there's even new merch. Head on over there today. Now, on to our interview.

Well, Kevin, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

Kevin Howell (01:04): Thanks, Marvin. Appreciate you having me on.

Marvin Cash (01:06): Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. And we have a tradition on The Articulate Fly. We always like to ask our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Kevin Howell (01:14): This fishing memory, boy. I would say I was probably three, four years old. And I remember catching bluegill with my father out of a neighborhood farm pond on a fly.

Marvin Cash (01:30): Yeah. And it's funny too, right? Because you come from a pretty famous fly fishing family. Did you always fly fish? Or is that something that you sort of had to come to a little bit later on in your fishing career?

Kevin Howell (01:42): Well, I do come from a pretty good lineage of fly fishing background there. But my father also was a huge bass angler, which a lot of people don't know, and won the United Bass Fisherman Classic back in 1976.

And so I grew up equally fly fishing rod in one hand and casting and spinning gear and bass fishing in the other hand. So we would bass fish all the way through until end of April, first of May, and then we started trout fishing, and that went until deer season, and then deer season went until it was time to go back to bass fishing. So that's how I grew up.

Marvin Cash (02:25): Did you have to sprinkle in any turkey hunting in the spring?

Kevin Howell (02:28): No, fortunately, I never got into that because my wife says I need just one more hobby to really not be around the house.

Marvin Cash (02:37): Yeah, my experience is that that could, I think, ruin you more than even saltwater fishing could.

Kevin Howell (02:44): Probably, and that's ruined me enough. So we'll leave the turkey hunting to the experts.

Marvin Cash (02:48): Yeah. And so I think the interesting thing is, you and I are kind of of a similar vintage and I was really kind of curious, what was it like growing up in a fly fishing and fishing family in the 70s and the 80s and there was no internet and everyone hadn't gone nuts over A River Runs Through It. So tell us a little bit about that.

Kevin Howell (03:05): Yeah, I grew up in a time when the Gray Drakes were still prevalent on the Davidson and other area streams. And I can remember going to fish the Gray Drake hatch on the Davidson and there'd be four anglers, five anglers there, and I was related to three of them.

So you'd see three or four other guys all evening. And now if there's a halfway decent hatch of any kind, you have to take your own rock to stand on. It was unique to grow up in a time when it was literally very few people in the sport.

But then at the same time we didn't have the technology and the waders. I remember wet wading as a kid in the 70s and 80s when you'd start wet wading in March or April and freezing absolutely to death. And now I'm kind of thankful I've got those waders.

Marvin Cash (04:03): Yeah. But back when wet wading probably meant wearing a pair of cut-off jeans and a pair of Chuck Taylors, right?

Kevin Howell (04:11): That or my father and uncle would buy old Vietnam-era combat boots and grind the soles off and glue felt to them to have traction.

Marvin Cash (04:23): Yeah. And so I know your dad and your uncle had a shop. Was that part of your growing up, too, or did that kind of come later?

Kevin Howell (04:31): Sure, yeah. They had Dwight and Don's Custom Tackle, and I asked them why they never had a storefront, and they did for a little while in my father's basement. They would sell fly tying material and stuff, but they quickly got rid of that because they said it tied them down and they had to be there and have hours instead of being on the streams and filling orders or whatever when they could or wanted to and fish when they wanted to.

So I grew up tying flies for them. By the time I was 13, I was tying commercially. So a lot of shops around the area and everything. So it was quite the experience to grow up and be producing flies at that age and seeing them go into other stores and see your flies there that you'd produced.

Marvin Cash (05:21): Yeah, that's pretty neat. And I know your dad and your uncle were really important mentors to you, but who are some of the other folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey and what have they taught you?

Kevin Howell (05:32): Boy, that list is long. One thing about fly fishing is when you quit learning, I think you're done fly fishing. So there's always somebody or someone to teach you stuff.

I'm really good friends with Bob Clouser, have gotten to be over the years. Bob taught me a lot about tying simplistic designs and using materials that make the flies have a little more life in them, more swimmy or just a little more lifelike. But keeping them simple at the same time where you could tie them quickly and replace them, and if some client lost them, it wasn't the end of the world and you could go on.

And Lefty taught me a lot about casting and that kind of stuff. So they were both great mentors, but even my clients, just being out there with them and watching stuff they do and seeing what works or may not work and learning from that.

And then in a lot of my travels to South America and Alaska and other stuff, you learn from guides and other locations that, hey, they do stuff this way, and that may make it better or worse. You learn little tips and techniques from them, too.

Really, Bob Clouser and Lefty, huge mentors for me, but really everybody I've come in contact with down the line of my fishing career has really helped influence me to where I am today.

Marvin Cash (07:09): Yeah, that's neat. It's funny, too, because there's the Fish TV Internet television service, and they have, like, all of those, like, 1980s and 1990s VHS tapes that Bob and Lefty did together. It's kind of cool to watch those.

Kevin Howell (07:23): It is. And old school. And a lot of people say, oh, well, that's old. It doesn't work. And I'm here to tell you as a guide, it works just as good today as it did back then.

Marvin Cash (07:35): Yeah. It's neat, too, to see them. I remember watching the one relatively recently. It's literally, I think, an hour and a half on just the Clouser Minnow. And, I mean, just to listen to him talk about the proportions and how he likes to fish it and the variations was just super cool.

Kevin Howell (07:52): Yeah, and the proportions and where the eyes go influences how it falls, which will influence how the fish will hit it, if they'll hit it or won't hit it. So a lot to be said for learning from those guys that spent so much time on the water.

And that's going back to what you asked a minute ago about being there before the technology is. In the 70s and 80s, it was trial and error. You tried it. If it worked, you improved and worked and tweaked on it. And now a lot of stuff you can get online and find and whatever. And people aren't having like that trial and error discovery.

Marvin Cash (08:30): Yeah, I think it's interesting, right? Because, I mean, there wasn't any YouTube and to your point, you had to figure it out. And a lot of times it was really hard to get materials. And I mean, I can remember as a kid getting like newsletters that people literally like ran off a bajillion copies and like put a sticker with your name on it and send it, put it in the mail to you.

Kevin Howell (08:52): Yeah. And we were buying materials from wholesale feather companies. And there wasn't a fly tying company down the street. So when you bought black saddle feathers, you bought a pound of them. And let me tell you, a pound of black saddle feathers goes a long way.

Marvin Cash (09:11): Yeah, not to mention that's even after you throw away half of them, right?

Kevin Howell (09:15): That's right.

Marvin Cash (09:16): So, as you mentioned, you've been really fortunate to travel all over the world to fish. And I was kind of curious if you had one particular place or one particular trip that kind of stood out more than any others.

Kevin Howell (09:31): You know, for me, there's two places. I do a lot of stuff in the Canadian Shield for smallmouth bass and that area up there I just love it. It's remote, it's one place my cell phone doesn't work. It would get me back to those times when I grew up of trial and error discovery and you can't find it all on the internet and all that.

So I really enjoy my time up there and I go up every year and spend one to two weeks up there smallmouth fishing. And then my other favorite place, Argentina definitely has a spot in my heart where there's lots of nice brown trout and rainbow trout fishing's good and again not a lot of pressure and people, just a place I really enjoy being.

Marvin Cash (10:25): Yeah, it's funny you say that because I imagine you still work with the guys at Andes Drifters, which I guess is now Set. And I can remember going to Argentina with them probably in 2006 or 2007 and running into Gustavo this past year on the fly fishing show circuit and catching up, which was really neat.

Kevin Howell (10:40): Yeah, yeah. I was partnered with Gustavo for many years. They had the opportunity to grow and move on to Set, which was wonderful. And they've done that. And I still go down and spend my time down there with them and other friends that I've made down there over the years.

Marvin Cash (11:01): Yeah, I probably will never Dorado fish, but the trout fishing is pretty good.

Kevin Howell (11:07): Oh, the trout fishing is phenomenal. People ask what it's like, and you can't explain it.

Marvin Cash (11:14): Yeah, it's kind of like talking about the dove hunting down there where it's like, well, how many birds do you shoot? And it's like, well, how much do you want to pay for shotgun shells is really the question.

Kevin Howell (11:23): Exactly.

Marvin Cash (11:24): So Kevin, when did you realize that you wanted to make your living in fishing?

Kevin Howell (11:30): I was probably, I don't know, 10, 12 years old and you'd get Outdoor Life and you'd see all those guys, Ted Williams and all those guys that were fishing and they're professional guides or professional fishermen. And you'd see other shows like Whip Palette and Walker Cay Chronicles when we grew up and all that. I knew from that age on I'm like man I want to figure out how I can fish for a living because that's what I love doing.

And so yeah, I fished as much as I could, went off, got an engineering degree and designed some houses and stuff for a little while and taught some architecture classes and decided that I was a lot happier when I was fishing.

Marvin Cash (12:25): So I went back to fishing. There you go. So when did you start guiding?

Kevin Howell (12:31): I guided a little bit for my father and uncle in the late 80s, early 90s. And then in 96, I started guiding full time for Davidson River Outfitters.

Marvin Cash (12:42): Very neat. And so what was the guide community like back then and kind of like the late 80s and into the 90s?

Kevin Howell (12:47): So when I first started guiding in the western 23 counties of North Carolina that have trout, there were 40 licensed hunting and fishing guides and some of those were hunting and some were fishing. But there were 40 licensed guides when I the first year when I was guiding and stuff. And now we don't, I don't know exactly what the number is but we estimate that there's like 500 or something in these Western 23 counties.

Marvin Cash (13:19): Ouch. A lot of growth. Yeah, so what was it like? I mean, so like legitimately you could probably go have beers with a third to half of the guys in Western North Carolina when you started out. You know, what was it like to be able to kind of get together with kind of the original guys, really?

Kevin Howell (13:40): Sure, yeah. You know, there was myself and Mac Brown, Roger Lowe. We were really some of the first ones over here, Walker Parrott. And we could call each other and say, hey, man, you want to meet for lunch or dinner or a beer or whatever in the off season? And we'd all sit around and talk about what was good and what was bad. And if we were seeing trends on a certain river, we'd all kind of help each other out.

And now I know a lot of the guides in the state, but I don't know, I wouldn't claim to know half of them. I know probably 100, 150, but still, I'm not even half what we're talking about.

Marvin Cash (14:27): You know, other than numbers, how have you seen the guide game evolve over the years?

Kevin Howell (14:34): You know, I really have seen a change in the guide game. The guides were all about teaching and the experience and making people or helping people understand why fish did what they did or why you should fish here or why you shouldn't fish here. You know, understanding hatches and all the nuances of it.

And today it seems it's just, hey, I want to go catch fish. It doesn't matter how. I don't care what I learn about it. And so I've seen that change in the guides of they don't teach and they don't educate as much as they used to. And they're more about just putting fish on the Internet for somebody to admire or whatever.

So I'd say that's been one of the biggest changes, which I hate because I really think everybody getting into it needs to understand some of the basics. And I'm not sure that that's all being taught to them.

Marvin Cash (15:40): It's interesting, right? Because I think it's been pretty consistent. I've kind of always followed that Recreational Boating and Fishing Foundation study and pretty consistently probably somewhere between 45% and 50% of the people that fly fish a year only fish one to three days. So it makes it kind of hard.

Kevin Howell (15:57): It does make it hard. And we see that all the time and people come in the shop and they fish for two days, three days, four days, maybe even a week while they're here. And then we'll see them a year later and they're like, yep, I haven't fished since I saw you last year.

And it makes it harder for them for the casting and everything. But it also slows down some of the learning process. You can't teach them to cast if they don't go home and practice it a little bit or something like that. So it makes it interesting for sure.

Marvin Cash (16:34): Yeah, it's interesting too, right? Because back to kind of what we were talking about, about kind of the way we learned about sports and things. I think now younger generations like to have more different experiences as opposed to having one or two things that they do a lot.

Kevin Howell (16:50): Sure, yes. I would agree. A lot of people, because of cell phones or whatever, also want instant gratification. As you and I know from growing up, boy, some days you struggle to catch a fish, and that's not instant gratification at all.

Marvin Cash (17:10): Oh, yeah. Or you tell your mom you're bored and she puts a broom in your hand. That'll take care of it, too.

Kevin Howell (17:15): Exactly. Yeah.

Marvin Cash (17:18): So with certain of these trends that you were seeing, Kevin, was that what made you want to start the North Carolina Guide and Outfitters Association?

Kevin Howell (17:27): Sure. You know, what we were seeing, and again, it comes back to those of us that talk to each other and everything. We were seeing guides that were unsafe rowing people down the river. Like, you're like, oh, wow, look, they're going to crash and dump that person out. And they would. And you'd see other stuff going on.

We're like, we just need to kind of get some professionalism back in this and be sure that the guides all have first aid and CPR and that kind of stuff. So we really wanted to make it just a more professional group of individuals.

And the other thing is when you tell somebody that you're a fishing guide down at the insurance commission and, hey, I want to get insurance, then they put you on a crab boat in the Bering Sea because you said fishing. And we're not nearly that dangerous of an occupation. So if we can unite and be a little more professional, then we can get better insurance rates and stuff for the guides across the state.

And then we want to also educate, get back to some of that education. And we want to offer that to clients and stuff throughout the state.

Marvin Cash (18:45): Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because folks may not understand this, but like out west, guiding is heavily regulated. Right. Whether it's a outfit or guide system. But I think basically North Carolina, you just have to have 35 dollars. Right.

Kevin Howell (19:00): Well, if you're a resident of North Carolina, it's a 16 dollar guide license and there's no prerequisites to first aid, CPR, anything. And for that $16, I'm a licensed hunt fish guide. So I can take firearms and guide somebody hunting just as easily as I can take somebody and hand them a rod and go fishing.

So we're trying to get that separated where you're either a hunting guide or a fishing guide. That'll, you know, like you said, we're not trying to over-regulate or get rid of anybody. We're just trying to make it a little more professional, a little more respectable community of people that are watching out for resources and each other.

Marvin Cash (19:43): Yeah, it's interesting because, I mean, I've been fortunate to fish a lot of places out west, and I've never thought that the way that they regulated outfitters and guides was obtrusive. It was really kind of the stuff you're talking about. Like, you know, somebody knows where you're fishing. If we're recording days to kind of manage fishing pressure, that's happening. And there's some insurance and a little bit of safety, right?

Kevin Howell (20:06): Right, exactly. And we're seeing more and more pressure here. So as an angler, if I'm not a guide, if I take myself out of that, and I ask myself, well, gee, I want to go fish the Davidson today and they're all in there and there's 35 guides up there, well that kind of really makes a burden on me to go find fish and do that kind of stuff.

So we're kind of thinking the same thing like you said of how many guides should be on this river with clients this day and trying to get some of that so that the anglers have more opportunities or equal opportunities if they're not being guided.

Marvin Cash (20:51): Yeah, and I guess people that haven't fished out west ought to feel lucky because either we'll figure that out for ourselves or somebody's going to tell us because I mean literally like in Montana it's like this is how many days you get to float this river, right?

Kevin Howell (20:59): Exactly. And that's where we were at as guides is we're like look we would much rather come in here and regulate and control ourselves instead of somebody setting in a cubicle somewhere going no this is the way you're going to do it. So he may not be a visitor, you know.

Marvin Cash (21:20): Yeah. But I also think, too, it's great because I think it's hard where obviously you can go through a shop like yours or some of the other ones in the area. But for the most part, guide trips are generally cost about the same. So it's really hard for the consumer to kind of figure out who they should go fish with.

Kevin Howell (21:39): Right. Right. And we want to provide a resource for those customers that you can load this person up and see that they're licensed by the guides association and have all their first aid and CPR and that kind of stuff. Or maybe this person doesn't.

And we see a lot of guys that drift in, hand out business cards and, oh, I'm a guide and they don't have any insurance or paying any forest service fees. And see, a lot of people don't realize that as a guide, when we guide in Pisgah or Nantahala or whatever national forest, that a percentage of our trip gets paid directly to the park to maintain the trails and the fishery or the streamside restoration or whatever.

So off every trip, we're paying a portion of that. And you get somebody who comes in who isn't paying that, but they're still abusing the resource. And that's when we're like, all right, look, we need to all help the resource. That's how we make our living.

Marvin Cash (22:42): Yeah, absolutely. And so how are you, I mean, do people kind of sign up and pay a fee? How are you kind of delivering services to your members?

Kevin Howell (22:50): Yeah, so we're really, like you said, we're just getting started. And our big thing right now is I'm working trying to get some legislation through to get the hunt fish guide separated into a hunting guide or a fishing guide.

And we'll be having another big meeting in September of all the guides across Western North Carolina that want to participate. And so they can either email me directly or email Jessica Whitmire at Headwaters or the Tuckasegee Fly Shop. Most of the fly shops will have Matt Canter at Brookings. We're all part of it and can get them in touch and keep them in touch for when the next meeting is going to be.

Marvin Cash (23:36): Got it. And what I'll do is I'll drop that in the show notes so people can find you and send you an email and not miss out.

Kevin Howell (23:44): Okay, I appreciate that.

Marvin Cash (23:45): You bet. And so, you know, most people know you as the owner of Davidson River Outfitters, but you haven't always owned the shop. You want to kind of share with our listeners how you came to be the owner?

Kevin Howell (23:56): Sure. So, like we were talking earlier, I grew up in a fishing family and knew it was something I wanted to do. And I was working as an engineer and stuff. And my father was battling colon cancer for a second time. And I was helping him run his custom fly tying business and doing engineering work.

And I had the opportunity, the guy who owned the shop, Larry Hall, came to my father and said, hey, do you want to manage it? And he said, no. He said, I'm going through this battle with cancer, and I don't know from day to day how good I'm going to feel.

And so I went to Larry and I said, look, I'm willing to manage it for you if you'll let me set my schedule. So on the days I think dad's going to feel good, I can go fishing with him. When I'm done, I'll sit in the back. Other than the responsibilities at the shop, I'll sit in the back and tie flies to help him out. And he's like, that'll be fine.

And so that's how I got started there in 95 and 96. And the shop at that point in time was open three days a week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And we slowly started to expand with me managing it. And I was doing most of the guiding, had one other fellow helping me. And we did all of like 50 guide trips in 96. And this year we'll do about 3,000. So we've had a little bit of growth there.

But I came to it that way. And then when my father passed away in 98 and Larry's mother was really sick, Larry came to me and wanted to know if I wanted to purchase the shop. So I purchased it in 98. I've been there ever since.

Marvin Cash (25:52): And has it always been on that same corner? I mean, I know it's been a while since you built the new location on that corner heading into Pisgah, but has it always been there?

Kevin Howell (26:01): No, we were across the street on the Hendersonville Highway side of the intersection for the first four or five years. And then we came into the little plaza where we're at now. We were there on the opposite corner where the little carpet store is at now. And we had seven-foot ceilings and nine-foot fly rods.

So that was an interesting predicament. We ended up cutting holes in the ceiling where the rods could stick up through the ceiling to allow the nine-foot rods in there. And so we did that. And then we were over beside the barbecue restaurant for a handful of years. And then, like you said, had the opportunity to move over right now and expand and plan on being there for a while.

Marvin Cash (26:50): Well, I guess the new space is super neat because you kind of built it out, obviously, the way you want it. It's got nice educational space, and I highly recommend the brewery and the barbecue is not too bad either.

Kevin Howell (27:09): Yeah, exactly.

Marvin Cash (27:10): So for folks that aren't familiar, why don't you kind of tell us, because you do a lot at the shop other than just kind of what people think about a fly shop. You want to kind of share with folks all the stuff you do from travel to guide trips and in and out of the Pisgah and all that kind of good stuff?

Kevin Howell (27:21): Sure. So first we run a huge guide operation, have 12 guides working out of there. And we run that seven days a week and year-round. Summertime, we transitioned a little more to smallmouth bass to give the trout a break in the heat of the summer and do trout all year or the other part of the year or majority of the year.

And we got half-day wade trips, full-day wade trips on public or private water. We got float trips for trout or for smallmouth bass or for musky. So we have all those species covered.

And then on the educational front, we do a lot of what we call 101 and 201 classes, which are just, hey, I've never held a fly rod before. I want to learn. So we do a lot of those. And then we do a lot of specialized classes.

One thing about my staff is I have a very diverse staff that has a guy who, Jeb Hall, who's an exceptional Spey caster and an exceptional fly tying instructor. We have a Tenkara expert. We have Euro-nymphing experts. We have myself, who's a certified casting instructor. So we do all the educational stuff we can. I even teach rod building classes in the wintertime.

So we have that going as well. And I got my start in the industry tying flies and building rods. So we have what I hope to be is one of the largest fly tying departments in the southeast here where you can find any type of material that you need in there when you tie flies. And then we run all the fly tying classes and different types of classes for that.

And then in addition to that, we do a lot of destination and worldwide travel. We do trips to Montana, Bahamas, Argentina, Mexico. I'm opening stuff up in Brazil. I'm going down to a new fishery this year in January. We'll have that up for 2024. It'll be a new option. So, yeah, I do a lot of travel stuff as well.

Marvin Cash (29:49): Yeah, it's neat, too. And it's amazing because I didn't realize until I started talking to some of the guys in the shop that, I guess, given how mild our climate is. I mean, these guys, they got a ton of days a year. Like, I mean, they've got probably twice as many days as a lot of guys in Montana and places like that.

Kevin Howell (30:06): Yeah, so Argentina, Montana, Alaska, those guys have 120 to 180 day season and that's it. You're done. And with our climate here, most of my guides average 200 days a year on the water to 225, 250.

We found if you do more than about 225 or 250, you just get a little too surly to be around. So we really try and limit it to 200 or 225 days a year.

Marvin Cash (30:39): And I think, too, for folks that haven't fished it, I think your private water is really great. And I think one of the things I really like about it, Kevin, is it's not like some of the other places where people have private water where the fish are all pelleted up. I mean, these are fish that are still pretty technical and hard to catch.

Kevin Howell (30:58): Sure. They're Davidson fish, and we manage it for access. And we do stock it once or twice as needed to replace whatever we feel may have been lost or killed by mishandling or otters or beavers or predation, whatever it calls it. But we like to have it in a natural setting as possible and not to have everybody out there throwing cork pellet flies at them and that kind of stuff.

Marvin Cash (31:30): We won't make fun of any of our friends in North Georgia.

Kevin Howell (31:33): No.

Marvin Cash (31:34): So I think a lot of people kind of in our part of the world are familiar with the Davidson. They're familiar with the Mills, but there are just a ton of places to fish around your shop. You want to share some of the other places folks may not know about?

Kevin Howell (31:51): Sure. All of the upper stretches, the North Fork, East Fork, West Fork, all have great trout fishing opportunities. Places like Courthouse Creek, West Fork of the Pigeon River Drainage, the Big East Fork of the Pigeon just across the mountain there on 276 from us, another great fishery. Looking Glass Creek and all the tributaries of the Davidson, all those are exceptional fisheries.

Marvin Cash (32:21): Yeah, and it's great too because it's funny, it's a little bit of an extra drive for me so I usually like to when I come fish around Brevard I usually try to come for two days and you've got a Hampton Inn just across the street and then you got a bunch of hotels up in Fletcher and I always tell people to go up there and they owe it to themselves at least have one or two beers at Sierra Nevada too.

Kevin Howell (32:41): Yes, Sierra Nevada and then of course we got Oskar Blues Brewery right in town and like you said Ecusta Brewing earlier and we now have a place called Pallot right across from the shop there. It has some really nice rental cabins and you can come get you a cabin for a long weekend or whatever and stay right there on the river and fish and enjoy.

Marvin Cash (33:10): Yeah, and so the super neat thing is on June 10th, you guys are going to be celebrating your 30th anniversary. What do you have planned for folks, Kevin?

Kevin Howell (33:17): That's right. So 30 years in the fly fishing industry. So we've got a huge day planned. We have staff coming in from Grundéns with their new waders from corporate. Grundéns will be here as well as their sales representatives to talk about their waders and what makes them different and new to the market and what their goals are with those.

And then we have Spey casting with Jeb. We have a free class in that. We have our free Tenkara class with Landon. Rob Lilly's going to do a free Euro-nymphing class in the afternoon. I'll be doing some fly tying along with Bob Clouser. We'll be there for a couple hours doing some fly tying demos and that kind of stuff.

And then our big event is we're having a freaky fly tying contest. And everybody's like, well, what is a freaky fly tying contest? And it's all in fun. We're going to supply some strange, weird, exotic materials and see what kind of flies get produced out of them. And whoever wins will win a big prize pack supplied by Semperfli. And then we got some hackles from Hareline and other places.

So a lot of fly tying material will be given away to those participants in that freaky fly tying contest. So that's going to be out there. We've got free lunch, free beer, food, drink, all that good stuff. And Leslie Holmes will be there doing casting from G. Loomis. So, yeah, it's going to be a huge day, June the 10th. So swing on by and enjoy the day with us.

Marvin Cash (35:07): Yeah, and so what time does it start?

Kevin Howell (35:11): So we're going to open our normal 8 o'clock time, but most of the other stuff will get started at 9.

Marvin Cash (35:15): Gotcha. And so if people want to do the classes, I know they're free, but do they need to sign up in advance or do they just show up?

Kevin Howell (35:23): No, the classes, they just need to show up. They can go to our website, DavidsonFlyFishing.com, and we've got a schedule of when everything is. The only thing that you need to sign up for is the fly tying contest because we have like eight vices to use at a time. So we're going to rotate people through in groups of eight. So we just need them to sign up so we can orchestrate how many groups of eight we need to move through there.

Marvin Cash (35:46): Gotcha. Gotcha. And obviously, do folks need to bring boots and waders if they're going to do like a Spey casting class? Are those going to be mostly demos that they can watch from the bank?

Kevin Howell (35:56): You know, it never hurts. Throw them in and the other thing I'll say is throw them in, you'll have them there for that and then hey when we're done slide up in the forest and go fishing for a couple hours.

Marvin Cash (36:07): Well there you go and is there anything else Kevin you want to share with our listeners before I'll let you go this evening?

Kevin Howell (36:11): No just enjoy your time on the water and if anybody ever has any questions feel free to email me, call me. I've been here a long time and more than willing to help and share my knowledge.

Marvin Cash (36:24): Yeah absolutely and speaking of that what's the best way for folks to kind of learn more about the shop and follow all of your fishing adventures on and off the water?

Kevin Howell (36:38): So DavidsonFlyFishing.com is our website and we've got a blog there as well as all of our website e-store, that kind of stuff. And then we have you can find us on Instagram, Davidson River Outfitters, Instagram, Facebook, all that good stuff on all the social media platforms.

Marvin Cash (36:57): Well, there you go. And I'll drop all that stuff in the show notes too.

Kevin Howell (37:00): Thank you.

Marvin Cash (37:01): You betcha. And Kevin, I really appreciate you spending some time with me this evening. And hopefully I'll be able to make it your way on June 10th.

Kevin Howell (37:09): All right. Look forward to seeing you, Marvin. Take care.

Marvin Cash (37:12): You too. Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Again, if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcast of your choice. Tight lines, everybody.