S5, Ep 73: Andy Weiner of Reeling in Serenity

Marvin Cash (00:04): Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, our friend Andy Weiner returns to update us on his fly fishing journey and to tell us about his new role as president of Reeling in Serenity, an organization that uses fly fishing to support folks on their sobriety journey.

I think you're really going to enjoy this one. But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

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Well, Andy, welcome back to The Articulate Fly.

Andy Weiner (01:29): Thank you very much. Great to talk to you again.

Marvin Cash (01:33): Yeah, it's been a while. I mean, I think we were trying to figure this out a few days ago, and I think the last time I saw you was the last pre-COVID fly fishing show in Denver.

Andy Weiner (01:39): I think that was 2019, I expect.

Marvin Cash (01:41): Yeah, something like that. So how has the water been treating you?

Andy Weiner (01:44): It has been treating me pretty well, all things considered. We spoke the other day about my trip to Bend, which was very nice, and had some nice fishing. Back in September, I took my girlfriend, who is taking up the sport, and she's in the unfortunate position of having me as her teacher, but she's very eager and very game.

We went to the Bitterroot Valley and also in Idaho in the Hailey Sun River area. Just had a really fun time. Every time that she gets to be out on the water, it draws her more and more to it.

The funniest thing is I fished in the same area in the Bitterroot Valley a couple of years before that. In looking forward to taking her fishing, there's a particular spot where I had such great success. When you're taking somebody, you always think of a spot that you've done well and you have it in your mind and you finally get there.

When we crossed the bridge to look down at the hole where I was going to take her, there was a moose standing in our pool. So I told her, we're not going to fish that pool right now. We will fish elsewhere. Then we'll see if we get back later after that moose moves to where he was standing. We did. And caught a couple of fish there. But she had such a great time. So I look forward to taking a lot more trips with her in the future.

Marvin Cash (03:08): Yeah, that's awesome. And, you know, it's kind of funny when I was preparing the questions for this interview, it's almost been exactly four years since you were first on the podcast back in the dark ages for me. The great thing is Down by the River has achieved an important milestone in those four years. You want to share that with our listeners?

Andy Weiner (03:26): Sure. My real job is working in publishing, and I've worked in publishing for over 40 years. So I have sort of a contextual idea of what a successful book is. Soon, hopefully this year, the book will have sold 15,000 net copies, which to me is just a really great milestone.

I know that when the book was published, some of the reps who were selling to bookstores conveyed to me that their buyers said, well, there aren't a lot of people who buy books for kids about fishing. I was really happy to prove them wrong. I think it's been a really terrific audience for it.

Marvin Cash (04:09): Yeah, that's pretty powerful. I mean, because, you know, fly fishing is niche and kids book and fly fishing is even more niche, right?

Andy Weiner (04:16): Absolutely true.

Marvin Cash (04:17): Yeah. And so, you know, I assume, I know four years ago, the book was being used as a fundraising or an outreach vehicle for conservation and other groups. I assume that's still the case. You want to let folks know kind of who you've worked with and who you're working with to kind of use the book to support the cause that they care about.

Andy Weiner (04:37): Yeah, you know, my background, the one year I didn't work in publishing, I worked for a nonprofit called California Trout, a great conservation organization here in San Francisco. I used some of my publishing experience to use books as thank you gifts for contributions. So it was a natural progression to use my book as a tool for fundraising for nonprofits.

The organization I probably worked most with is Casting for Recovery. I got to meet some of the people with the organization, have had my book included in their online auctions, but also have worked a good deal of time in their booths at different stops of the fly fishing show, both in Denver, Pleasanton here in California, actually up in Lynnwood, Washington as well.

It's been kind of startling to me with the copies that they've sold online in the auction, what the selling price was for several of them, over $100. I know it has everything to do with the organization rather than the book, but it's really gratifying that people were so excited to bid.

I've worked with the Mayfly Project, both in the United States and the UK, another great organization that works with foster kids. Healing Waters Fly Fishing, donated some books, have some books that are going to be in an auction later this year.

There's an organization called Forever Our Rivers, which is a new organization on my radar, and they basically celebrate rivers, work to preserve them, and they've done several giveaways with different items, including my book.

One of the original ones was Chattahoochee Riverkeeper, which is the organization that my friend Becca Klein, who's also the executive director of Reeling in Serenity, which we'll talk about, she was their development director. She managed to sell two copies for $2,500. It had everything to do with Becca and her salesmanship rather than the book. But she got people really pumped up about it. That's just an exciting story for me.

Marvin Cash (06:57): Yeah, absolutely. And so if one of my listeners wanted to partner with you for their cause, you know, what should they do?

Andy Weiner (07:04): They can contact me directly. I'll tell you the email address now. We can repeat it at the end of the conversation, but it's A-X-W-E-I-N-E-R at gmail.com. Anyone is welcome to reach out. I really love to donate copies and to do my part to help nonprofits that are helping people, helping the environment. So, yeah, I would encourage people to contact me.

Marvin Cash (07:37): Yeah, and we'll hit that again at the end of the interview, but also I'll drop it in the show notes for you. Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, Andy, because I can remember back to when we first spoke, you know, gosh, four years ago now, that you had this phenomenal journey kind of building out this network as you were promoting the book.

I was kind of curious if you could tell us, I mean, you know, I've seen you in the last four years. You've met and touched a lot of people in community. You want to tell us a little bit about that journey?

Andy Weiner (08:09): Yeah, I would love to. It had a lot to do with the fact that publishing has changed a lot in the last probably five to ten years. Publishers used to do most of the promotion for a book, but as sales have changed and marketing has changed, a lot of that burden falls on the author of a book to do the outreach for their book.

I had good fortune to have some authors who I know who taught me a lot about how to use social media in particular. I would say that LinkedIn and Instagram have been the two tools I've used the most.

When I started using LinkedIn, I guess prior to the book being published, I probably had about 200 connections with people I knew. Then I began outreach to people in the fly fishing industry, fly fishing manufacturing, retail shops, conservation organizations, environmental education professionals. At this point, I have over 6,000 connections and use it as a platform to promote the book and Reeling in Serenity quite a bit.

The other thing I use is Instagram, where I've reached out to a lot of the social media personalities, people who are brand ambassadors or people who are just passionate about the sport and who share that with their audience. I sort of cold call people on Instagram and ask if I could send a copy of the book, ask if I could count on them to promote the book if they liked it.

The support that I've gotten primarily through Instagram for that kind of promotion has been so gratifying and people have been so kind and so generous. Beyond the connection of people promoting the book for me, I've made really good friends who have been very supportive of me. I hope I'm being equally supportive of them as well. But it's a phenomenal group of people.

Marvin Cash (10:18): Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, because that's how you found me. You literally just out of the blue, you just reached out to me, I think, on LinkedIn.

So, you know, the interesting thing about that is not only have you kind of grown this network, but you've got a new path in the community. You're now in a relatively recent position for you as the president of Reeling in Serenity. For our listeners that aren't familiar, can you tell us a little bit about the organization and why we need it?

Andy Weiner (10:44): Sure, absolutely. Reeling in Serenity is an organization that's built on the same model as organizations like Casting for Recovery, which works with women who have breast cancer, or Reel Recovery, which works with men with cancer. Project Healing Waters, that works with veterans. There are quite a few other organizations.

Reeling in Serenity works with sober anglers who are in recovery and takes them on free fly fishing retreats at no cost to them. That's what free means, I guess. We've done various kinds of outreach to get people to come and participate. We have volunteers who work with them, both learning a little bit about the sport and then taking them out fishing.

As you and I had talked about the other day, so much of the promotion of fly fishing and outdoor sports in general connects the fun of the activity, whether it's fly-fishing or biking or sailing, whatever, with enjoying an alcoholic beverage while you're doing it or after you're doing it.

We understand that fly-fishing is one of the great healing activities. We wanted to provide a safe space for people who are sober and working on their sobriety to be in an environment where there isn't the pressure to partake in alcohol or other substances and then to enjoy that experience and that setting in nature, standing in a river, and finding the comfort and the solace of that and maybe catch a fish.

Marvin Cash (12:34): Yeah. And so what attracted you to the organization? I mean, the mission is compelling, but what kind of drew you in?

Andy Weiner (12:42): I have a backstory in my family of a father who was an alcoholic, very serious alcoholic. He was also my fishing buddy. When I was just before I was a teenager, my father's drinking came to a head. He almost died and hit rock bottom. Then he became sober when I was 13 years old.

When he died six years ago now, he was 47 years sober. He was a writer who produced books for the recovery market, which have helped millions and millions of people. He is one of my heroes and one of my inspirations.

One of the people who I reached out to on LinkedIn is a woman named Becca Klein. Becca is the, I think I mentioned, the development director at Chattahoochee Riverkeeper. The connection between the two of us, as I mentioned, I donated a couple of books to her.

But I was reading a copy of a now sadly defunct fly fishing magazine called Dun Magazine that Jen Ripple produced. It was dedicated primarily to women fly anglers. I had an issue of the magazine, and as I was leafing through and reading the articles, there was a very compelling article with a lot of photographs of a group of women who had taken a fly fishing retreat to work on their sobriety.

All the photographs were taken from behind, their faces were covered to respect the anonymity of the women who were participating. In the center of the article was a photograph of a woman with one of the sort of seminal recovery books that people read called One Day at a Time and the book happens to be written by my father.

It was an extraordinary experience to see that image brought me to tears and I posted about it on social media and Becca reached out to me. We had connected on Instagram and she said I just wanted to let you know that that photograph is me behind that book. It just made our bond that much stronger.

Becca was one of the people who had organized that retreat. She formalized that process by creating a nonprofit called what was then called Reeling in Recovery. We've now changed the name to Reeling in Serenity.

As she began the process of going through the steps to make a true nonprofit, a 501c3, she was building her board and her staff and reached out to me and invited me to participate, knowing that I had that backstory of alcoholism in my family.

Becca is just an extraordinary person who works for that riverkeeper. She runs a program called River Kids three times a year, where she brings in something like 35 kids and takes some fishing guides and volunteers from all over the country. She's now running Reeling in Serenity.

Sadly she's suffering from stage four metastatic breast cancer. She's very public about it. During her battle, she's tough as hell. I have faith that she's going to beat this. But she's extraordinary in the things that she accomplishes while undergoing chemotherapy. It's superhuman, honestly.

Marvin Cash (16:28): Yeah, that's a really incredible story. You kind of touched on this a few minutes ago, Andy. You know, there are all of these organizations that use fly fishing as a vehicle for healing. I was kind of curious on your thoughts about what it is you think about fly fishing that makes it such a powerful tool.

Andy Weiner (16:48): I think the great thing about fly fishing is that when you're participating in it, pretty much everything fades away except for what you're focusing on while you're fishing. The places that we go to fly fish are almost exclusively really beautiful places.

But more than I think any other kind of fishing, there is the moment-to-moment focus on casting a fly, reading the water, observing where you are, and always that hope that on that very next cast you're going to catch a fish or you're maybe going to catch a fish. I think you're always very hopeful about that.

Standing in a river or being in a boat in that environment, I think it really just wipes all of the stress out of your mind, at least on the second day of a vacation. First day, maybe it takes a little bit of time to clear that out.

But there have been times in my life where I don't think there's anything I could have used more than a day fishing. It never fails me. It makes me feel so much better. If we do it in a community with other people, I think that's a great boost as well, because we can share that passion and share those stories that I think are a great part of fly fishing as well.

Marvin Cash (18:23): Yeah, I guess what is it? I guess John Gierach has that quote in one of his books that the worse the problem is you're dealing with, the longer your fishing trip should be.

Andy Weiner (18:43): Exactly. Exactly.

Marvin Cash (18:43): So you touched on the retreats earlier. Can you share with our listeners kind of what a typical Reeling in Serenity retreat looks like?

Andy Weiner (18:50): Sure. We try to include a little bit about recovery, a little bit of a meeting, but not a formal meeting like an AA meeting. People address their sobriety and pursue it in different ways. We don't want to force a particular practice on somebody, but there is discussion about why everybody is there and what being on a river and what fly fishing can offer to them.

Then there's somebody who does a little bit of instruction about knot tying, a little bit of entomology about the life cycle of the bugs and the animals that fish feed on, little casting lesson so people have some familiarity with a rod and a line and how you're going to cast that line.

Then there are volunteers, one for each participant, to help them to be comfortable in the water, lead them to a spot where hopefully they'll catch a fish. At the end of the day, there's sort of a recap of what happened.

We put together a manual for participants. This is one of the great stories to me. When you're starting a nonprofit and you're starting a program like this, there's material that you need to create. We're not an organization of writers and creators like that.

I reached out to some of my friends at Casting for Recovery. I asked if by any chance they had some material that they could share with us that we could use as sort of the basis for the material that we gave to our volunteers and to our participants. They provided several documents that basically saved us months of writing and preparation. It was incredibly generous.

I speak to the kind of people who work at an organization like Casting for Recovery. They aim to help people. They know that different organizations have different roles. We're so grateful for that from them.

Marvin Cash (20:55): Yeah, and so is the format like come in on a Friday night, start the education process, fish all day Saturday and go home on Sunday? Or is it kind of a one-day thing?

Andy Weiner (21:05): Right now it's a one-day thing. We've talked to some people about doing overnight retreats. You know, the challenges are we're a very small organization. We have a very lean budget, and we're trying to keep it that way. All of our staff and board are volunteers, and everybody has responsibilities for a job where they earn their living.

So everything that they do comes out of their family time and out of their work time. At this point, a one-day retreat is the best way to use people's time.

I've talked to a lot of people around the country who are involved in the fly fishing industry who are eager to support the work that we're doing and who are connected with a resort or have a house where they can host people. I think within the next year or so, we probably will have the kind of overnight and multi-day retreats, and we look forward to that.

Marvin Cash (22:04): Got it. And, you know, what do you do kind of, you know, the day on the water is great, but how do you support participants when they're off the water?

Andy Weiner (22:13): Yeah, you know, we're working on that. We do have a Facebook private group where people can comment and share thoughts. Part of what we leave them with, we do have some information about recovery organizations.

Hopefully, you know, the next year when we repeat a retreat, kind of hard to say repeat a retreat, they will join us again and continue to grow in their fly fishing and continue to grow in their recovery. We are trying to give everybody some fly fishing tools when they leave.

We were one of the very fortunate recipients this year of the Tie-A-Thon Fly-Tying volunteer organization where people all over the country tie flies, which they donate. Each year, the Tie-A-Thon group gives a third of the flies to three different organizations. We were just really excited to be named one of the three recipients this year.

That actually came from a friend who is a book-selling friend of mine. He told me about Tie-A-Thon, invited me to nominate ourselves, and we were really thrilled to be chosen.

Marvin Cash (23:36): Yeah, that's really neat. And, you know, where does someone, Andy, have to be on their recovery journey in order to participate in the program?

Andy Weiner (23:45): What we ask is that the participants be sober. We haven't really specified a time frame. You have to be six months or nine months. I think if you are sober, you are welcome to participate. Hopefully that sobriety continues for years and years and years.

Marvin Cash (24:06): Got it. And if someone wants to volunteer with Reeling in Serenity, do they need to be sober?

Andy Weiner (24:13): They don't need to be sober. We do have a strict policy that there is no alcohol, no drugs, no vaping, no cigarettes even at our retreats. We want to keep all substances away from the participants. That's a really strict rule that we have.

Marvin Cash (24:31): Got it. And if someone, you know, isn't close enough to kind of help with one of your retreats, how, you know, are there other ways that they can support the organization?

Andy Weiner (24:40): Absolutely. You know, actually, it's sort of unlimited how many things people could do for us. The first thing I think for a nonprofit is always going to be a financial contribution. We would accept a contribution of $10, and we would accept a contribution of $10,000.

We have, as I said, a very lean budget. Nobody gets compensated for their work with the organization. It takes a good amount of money to put on one of the retreats. You have insurance. You have to be well insured for something like this. So financial contributions are always welcome.

Spreading the word that we exist, letting people know in general that we're doing this work, or if you know somebody specifically who you feel would benefit from participating, we would love for people to spread the word to those people.

We have a benefit auction coming up this year, and we would love gift and kind donations, which could be fly rods, flies, vacation lodging, art, jewelry. I mean, it's really unlimited what people can contribute to our auction. We're going to host that in September, which is National Recovery Month.

Basically all contributions to Reeling in Serenity are tax deductible to the full extent of the law. So whether it's a cash donation or an item, you'll get a receipt for that contribution.

But yeah, we just want people to understand that we're out here doing this work. If people are interested in being on our board, we would love to talk to people about that.

It's amazing how generous people have been, both with financial contributions and with the in-kind donation for the auction. I think there are three people who are making fly rods for us personally to contribute. I've had, I think, seven or eight pieces of art donated.

We're going to have a really fun item, actually, from my book. The art from the book has never been printed separately. So the artist, April Chu, who did the illustrations for the book, is going to have some giclee prints created and will sign them, and I will sign them, and those will be part of the auction as well. Really, I might even bid on that myself because I don't have a piece of art from the book.

Marvin Cash (27:22): Yeah, that's super cool. And so if someone wanted to make a donation, what's the best way for them to get in touch with the organization?

Andy Weiner (27:31): On our website, Reeling in Serenity, there's a link which will take you to the email address, info at reelinginserenity.org. Basically, any questions that you have about the organization, you can address to that email. It can be a contribution. It can be questions about participating, any questions you might have.

Again, anybody can reach out to me at the email address that I gave you at the beginning, which we'll have at the end as well. I love hearing from people.

I think something we haven't talked about that comes to mind is our experience at fly fishing shows, which we have exhibited at, has been really extraordinary. It's a personal kind of condition that we're dealing with. When you're in a public space and you're explaining to somebody who's just a passerby what the mission of the organization is, I'm not sure that any of us had an expectation of what the conversations would be with people who were just walking by our booth.

My experience and the experience of the others has been really extraordinary. The openness that people have shown, the stories that they're sharing with us of themselves, of family members, it's incredibly moving. It just sort of reminds us how important the work we're doing is, that people understand why we're doing it, and they want us to be out there to help people.

The stories that I was told at the Pleasanton Show, the fly fishing show, several times brought me to tears, and the person who was speaking with me was in tears as well. A very intimate experience to have in a public space. But it's a really tremendous experience as well.

Marvin Cash (29:41): Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting, Andy. Because I always think that the fly fishing community is a phenomenally open community and they're very giving. It's always kind of amazed me, not at that level, but it's always amazing kind of, you know, if you, I guess for lack of a better word, put the time in to connect with other people and kind of be present, kind of what happens.

Andy Weiner (30:19): Yes, absolutely.

Marvin Cash (30:19): And so do you have any other events in addition to your charity auction that are kind of on the horizon? I know you've got a kind of a long planning horizon on the retreats that you want to share with folks.

Andy Weiner (30:31): Sure. We have another retreat. Actually, I'll start with the fact that our first retreat was back in September of last year. This year we have had three additional retreats. Our fourth this year is going to be in Helen, Georgia, June 17th. It's going to be co-sponsored by Unicoi Outfitters.

Folks are going to be fishing for trout, fishing for stripers, which sounds really exciting. So we're looking for more participants. I think we have room for a couple more people. We're always looking for volunteers that sort of never can have enough volunteers to be there with people and to be instructors.

I know that we're actually looking for a photographer for that event as well. So if anyone is interested, again, you can email info at reelinginserenity.org and let folks know that that's what you're interested in and they'll get back to you very quickly.

We're hoping to put together a retreat in Colorado in September as well. We're finding it a little challenging because it turns out that if you have guides, professional guides in Colorado, I think it is that you have to have professional guides unless you're on private property. So we're trying to find a place to do that.

We're trying to put together the volunteers and the participants in a place where none of our staff or board lives. So that's a challenge. But we have some people out there that we know and we're going to try to make that happen.

We're certainly going to repeat the retreats that we did this year in 2024 and hopefully add to that as well.

Marvin Cash (32:13): Very, very neat. And Andy, before I let you go this evening, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Andy Weiner (32:20): Yeah, there was a film I saw recently that Flywater Media was the producer of the film, I believe. It's getting a lot of attention both on LinkedIn, on Instagram, in Flywater Media social media. The name of the film is The Studio. You can find it on YouTube. I think if you just search for The Studio or if you go to the Flywater Media page.

It's a film about a man from Bloomington, Minnesota. His name, I wrote it down so I would remember, is Scott Simmons. It's a film about fishing with his son, fly fishing with his son, and how important fly fishing has been to him in exactly the kind of healing that we're talking about.

Twelve-minute film. It's beautifully made and it's joyous. Everyone I've mentioned this to once that I watched it with my girlfriend, it is so uplifting. It speaks to what our sport offers to people. I've actually connected with Scott on Instagram because that's the kind of person I am. I reach out to people. He's such a cool guy. I encourage people to look for it, The Studio.

Marvin Cash (33:43): Yeah, and I'll be sure to drop that in the show notes too.

Andy Weiner (34:15): Thank you. And for the book, people can buy it from Amazon or they can buy it from their local independent bookstore. A number of fly shops carry it, and they can order it as well.

It's funny the way that books work online. Almost every major retailer has a book section on their website, whether it's Target or Walmart. The book can be found on those websites as well and ordered from those retailers.

They can also just email me, and I can sell them a signed copy for a discount. I also am happy for anybody who's looking to retail the book to get in touch. I like to sell signed copies to retailers as well.

Marvin Cash (34:55): Got it. And if someone wanted to learn more about Reeling in Serenity and follow its progress, where should they go?

Andy Weiner (35:02): Our main website is reelinginserenity.org. We have an Instagram page, and it's at reelinginserenity. We're on Facebook. I think if you just search Reeling in Serenity, you'd find us. We have a LinkedIn page. I sort of manage that one.

We're just going to keep updating what we're doing. A lot of what we do on Instagram in particular is to do posts about sobriety, posts about fly fishing. Some of it's inspiring, some of it's funny, and all of it is heartfelt. That's for sure.

Marvin Cash (35:44): Got it. And you know if you want to repeat your email address and also just share with folks, I'm sure you're, we know you're on Instagram if you want to share kind of the best way for folks to follow your adventures on and off the water.

Andy Weiner (35:52): Sure. The email address again is A-X-W-E-I-N-E-R, it's N as in Nancy, at gmail.com. A-X-W-E-I-N-E-R at gmail.com. My Instagram is my name. So it's at WeinerAndy. It's reversed because there's an Andy Weiner out there already. I am on LinkedIn. I would love to be contacted on LinkedIn. I do have a website for the book specifically, and it's downbytheriverbook.com, and there's a contact link there as well.

Marvin Cash (36:34): Got it. Well, Andy, I appreciate you spending some time with me, and hopefully our paths will cross again soon at a show or maybe even better on the water.

Andy Weiner (36:43): That would be great. I just remembered to thank you again for loaning me your bear spray in Montana, which thankfully I didn't have to use. It was nice to have it on my hip just in case I needed it. So thank you for that. And thank you for having me on again. I appreciate it.

Marvin Cash (37:01): Oh, you bet. And that makes me want to give a shout out to the folks at Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone. They do a great thing, right? Because you can't fly with bear spray. They basically have a wine cellar of cans of bear spray with your name on it. So you literally just call ahead and tell them your name and it'll be sitting for you on the counter when you go to buy your license and your flies.

Andy Weiner (37:22): Yeah, and it was great. They actually taught me how to use it because who would know how to use bear spray if you'd never used it before?

Marvin Cash (37:29): Yeah, well, I'm glad you didn't have to use it. That would make at least an interesting interview story, but probably not so good.

Andy Weiner (37:35): Yeah, but next time we talk, I'll tell you the bear story.

Marvin Cash (37:39): Fair enough. Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Again, if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. Tight lines, everybody.