S5, Ep 83: A Fly Fishing Life with Jeff Currier

**Marvin Cash (00:04):** Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by my friend Jeff Currier. We take a deep dive into designing a fly fishing life and how to travel anywhere in the world and be successful on the fly. I think you're really going to enjoy this one. But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out. And this episode is brought to you by our friends at Artisan Angler. If you're looking for a better way to organize your flies, tippet and tools, you should check out the flytrap at artisananglerllc.com. I've dropped the link in the show notes. They sell direct through Amazon, so you get prime shipping and free returns. It doesn't get any easier than that. Make your time on the water more productive and check out the flytrap today. Now, on to our interview.

Well, Jeff, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

**Jeff Currier (01:05):** Thanks, Marvin.

**Marvin Cash (01:06):** Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation, and we have a tradition on The Articulate Fly. We'd like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

**Jeff Currier (01:15):** Well, for me, it would be probably like a lot of people. I had a red and white bobber and a worm underneath that. Probably very young, probably three to five, somewhere in that range. It was at the neighborhood pond right down the street from where we lived. And I do remember the first fish was a pumpkinseed. And I was so excited that I had to drive that around town and show it to my aunts and uncles and both grandparents. And it was not a catch and release pumpkinseed, but made me a fisherman nonetheless.

**Marvin Cash (01:49):** Yeah. I kept a few of those as a kid too. So where had you moved on from like a Snoopy riding reel to a Zebco 33 or what was it that you caught that pumpkinseed on?

**Jeff Currier (01:59):** Well I don't think the Snoopy thing was around then so it was just like a really weird look. I still have the rod somewhere like a really short white rod with it actually was an open face spin reel so I'm sure my dad was very close by to make sure I didn't screw that up but I don't know why he was anti-closed face reel. He just thought that was for like babies or something so yeah I learned fast.

**Marvin Cash (02:24):** Yeah, I've got my, I've still got my first Zebco 33 and all the cane poles I used as a kid too. Yeah, mine was the old Garcia Mitchell. It was a classic. Yeah. And so when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

**Jeff Currier (02:37):** So my dad, I'm the oldest, my dad had me when he was in his twenties and my dad fished hard, fished and hunted hard. And I went with him a lot of times and he also was a really good fly fisherman. So when I was six, six years old, I specifically remember my first opening day and it was on the Ipswich River which was in our town. Dad woke me up at like 4:30 in the morning and first time I'd ever been up that early was pretty amazing really listening to the birds and everything and all that cool stuff watching it get light but we went up to the Ipswich River in our canoe. He dropped anchor, he set me up with a night crawler, actually I kind of think by then I knew how to put it on myself and slung it out there and I looked in the back of the canoe and he's got all this activity going on I'm like what the heck is going on, what's he doing? And he was fly fishing and he just started murdering the stocked rainbows that were put in this river for opening weekend. And I was catching pretty much nothing and I just, I very much remembered that. I caught two fish and He caught at least 15 or 20. And I was an angry little guy, and I wanted a fly rod. And he told me I was too young. But that Christmas, I got a telescoping fly rod and reel and everything. And the next spring, he showed me how to use it a little bit. And so by the time I was seven, by the end of that first summer, I was done making messes and actually catching fish. Pretty cool.

**Marvin Cash (04:07):** Yeah, absolutely. And so you've been around the sport a long time, but kind of in the early days, who were some of the folks that mentored you on your fly fishing journey and what did they teach you?

**Jeff Currier (04:16):** Well, my dad definitely taught me. He wasn't the type of guy who's going to teach you how to cast. He kind of expected you to see what he was doing, but he was really good at catching fish. And if I was doing a bad presentation, he would take the rod out of my hand, do it like this. He always had a favorite line too. It would be like, I love action, which is a little different than what we're used to when we're fishing a mayfly, feeding it down to a trout. But he liked to fish like little wet flies, and he would just twitch the heck out of these things. And sometimes I'd be thrown into a fish, and it wasn't eating. Then he'd grab it, and he'd go, I love action. He would just whip it around, twitch it, and he'd hook the fish in the head to me. And I'm like, I learned how to move my fly from him.

Both my grandfathers had a good influence on my fishing. One grandfather fly fished, but during my lifetime, he had already kind of quit. All he did was talk about it. Next summer, I'm going to take you out. I'm going to get my rod back out. But he never did, which would be a lesson in my whole life to be like, if you want to do something, you do it. Don't just talk about it because he never did. My other grandfather was a bait fisherman, but he would sling a worm over the side of his boat and fish from eight in the morning until seven at night, have dinner and go back out and fish for catfish. And so I learned the patience from him. So I had a fishy family at a very young age.

**Marvin Cash (05:41):** Very neat. And it's funny because you and I have talked about this before. Like there are a lot of people in our world that think they're passionate about fly fishing. But I think you're absolutely eating up with it. And what is it about fishing that grabbed you so completely? And did that attention grabbing happen like the first time you went out or was it something that kind of grew over your childhood?

**Jeff Currier (06:05):** Well, there's no doubt that it grabbed me the first time I ever went out because the curiosity of what was on the end of the line. And I was lucky because I grew up in fantastic warm water fishing. So it could be a bluegill, it could be a pumpkinseed, it could be a crappie, a bass. And we did that trout fishing, that was always something special. The wonder what was out there, but then it grew more because I'd end up in a unique place and it was more like what's actually out there. We were close to the ocean so we would go to the ocean and fish Plum Island, Crane's Beach sometimes and it's like okay there's some different stuff out here I have to learn how to catch it. And I started loving those challenges, fishing challenges at a very young age. And we both know that no matter what age you are and how many fish you've got, you can always find a new fishing challenge which is what's kept me going all this time. It will right to the end I'm sure.

**Marvin Cash (07:01):** Yeah and I would imagine what you were fishing stripers and blues and all sorts of stuff right?

**Jeff Currier (07:07):** You know when I was a kid the striper populations in New England were so low that I actually never saw one my entire childhood. Lots of bluefish, quite a few flounder. There were a lot of pollock when I was a kid. Unfortunately, they're gone now. But the stripers really didn't start bouncing back until I was in my late teens, early 20s. So it was more like when I was going back to the family that I got to striper fish.

**Marvin Cash (07:28):** Yeah. Interesting. Do you remember the moment when you decided you wanted to build your life around fly fishing?

**Jeff Currier (07:33):** Well, yeah, it wasn't at a super young age. It was more like I loved fly fishing. And I thought at that age, I was going to have to go to college and become a businessman of some sort like my dad did but I knew I wasn't going to do it right away. I was going to screw around and actually I was lucky. I went to college and kind of became a naturalist so I did realize there are other careers out there but still not fishing. And I made a deal with my dad when I started college. He said when I finish I am going to go be a trout bum for at least a couple years and he was totally behind that. And I worked at the Jack Dennis Fly Shop in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, which is a great platform to be on. And I was surrounded by people that were making a living in fly fishing. So after that first year, whether it be Jack Dennis himself who wrote books and was lecturing around the country in the wintertime, or the guides that guided all summer and then some of them went to New Zealand in the wintertime or South America. Probably after that first year, I said, you know what, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to make this happen one way or another.

**Marvin Cash (08:46):** Yeah that's neat. And so to kind of fast forward a little bit, you spent I guess a little bit over 20 years managing the shop and I can remember watching the movie that was made about the time you kind of made the decision to go out and be completely self-employed in the fly fishing business. You want to tell us a little bit about kind of how you got to that point in the journey?

**Jeff Currier (09:04):** Yeah well I'll just tell anybody listening right now is that if you're going to work in a fly shop, you're not going to make a lot of money. And so what I did was I did a lot of other things as I did the fly shop. So as most people know, I've written a couple of books. I mean, I did those books before and after work over the course of a couple of years. I did my art, a little bit of my speaking stuff. So with all that together, I made a living. But it was also like, oh my God, I'm working so much. So it was my dream to get out of the shop. And I thought really that would probably be when I'm 55, 60, something like that. And along came the 2008 financial crisis. And our shop was a very prominent shop and it was owned by some very wealthy people. And funny thing, when the millionaires and the billionaires start losing a few bucks, they basically took it out on their employees. So everybody that was on salary went to hourly and they gave us less hours. And they said, now if you go fishing courier on your own time, it'll be your own time. You won't have paid vacation. Utter baloney. And Granny said, you know what? You've been wanting to quit and go full time with your art. You've been wanting to take on more speaking stuff. Now you won't have to ask somebody when you want to travel. I think you should walk right in there and quit. And I didn't do it that quick. But after that year of suffering on not being able to travel, losing my vacation time after a year, I finally did that. I stepped it up, walked in and gave my two months notice.

**Marvin Cash (10:48):** Yeah. And I couldn't remember for the life of me, the title of that movie, if I remember correctly, you were painting either a cliff box or maybe a guitar. And you were talking about kind of getting to this point.

**Jeff Currier (11:00):** Oh, yeah, that was Turning Points North with our Arbiotti. That was pretty cool. That was about turning 50, but also the new life, which it had been in progress for a few years at that time. I think when I left the shop, it was October of 2009, so I was 44. Yeah, I never looked back. It was pretty amazing.

**Marvin Cash (11:25):** When you made that move, Granny kind of pushed you over the edge. Was it, were you doing a lot of planning or were you saying, look, I believe in this. This is what I want to do. And I have faith that the road is going to kind of keep opening up in front of me.

**Jeff Currier (11:41):** Yeah, I did. I mean, like I say, I stuck out the job for another year. And that's all I did for a solid year was make the plan. So I saved. I worked as much as I could, saved as much as I could. So I'd have a little buffer. And then when I actually walked out the door of the store for the next three or four months, I did travel. I went on a trip with one of my best friends. He too had not taken a lot of time to travel. I actually was traveling when I was working. I went and saw my family for Thanksgiving. I hadn't seen my family for over 30 years during any sort of holiday because I was in retail. Just did a lot of things that I wanted to do. But all the meantime I was doing that, the unexpected was happening. I thought after I had this little two-month vacation, it would start 2010 where I'm doing tons of art, trying to get the speaking thing lined up. But my phone was ringing. And it was, after being in the store, that storefront, the big storefront, everybody came in there. And I have really good relationships with the retail companies out there from Simms to Winston to Sage, you name it. And they're like, what are you going to do, Curry? Would you be interested in staying a part of Winston? We loved the way you sold rods. And every time we're down there visiting you, you seem passionate about the rods. We'd love to have you fish our stuff. What would it take? And I'm like, oh my God, are these people asking me to fish their rods and help me fish all the time? And yes, that's kind of what happened. It was just unbelievable. The whole thing just kind of came together. I had a plan, but my plan was okay. But then the plan that I didn't have that came together with all the companies and working the fly fishing shows and stuff mixed together. Next thing you know, I had a real job, but it was a lot more fun than it used to be.

**Marvin Cash (13:31):** Very neat. And obviously it took you a while to get there. And I can remember, I think, reading Sarah Gregg's article about how when you first got out of college, you were selling ice cream in Yellowstone. Kind of what's the craziest thing you've ever done to kind of stay in the game?

**Jeff Currier (13:47):** I would say it was probably that last year at Jack Dennis. It was 2008 when I'll be, I'll say right out there. I basically got screwed. All the managers are at that store pretty much got screwed and could have walked out right then. But I, and that's what Granny wanted me to do. But I'm like, you know what? I'm going to suck it up for a solid year and get my feet under me. I'm going to let all my good customers know that I'm going to be making this big move. So I have ways to stay in touch with them. And it was kind of a miserable year. It's the first time I think I didn't leave the country, but that was probably the first time in 15 years that entire year. But it was well worth it because then when I did walk out that door, I had my plan, everything in line. And like we just said, you kind of circle back, it really worked out. So that was my big crazy move.

**Marvin Cash (14:39):** Yeah, that's awesome. And what was maybe kind of during that journey kind of the closest you ever came to getting pushed onto a traditional path in the sport or even potentially leaving the sport entirely?

**Jeff Currier (14:53):** I don't think I was ever going to leave the sport entirely, but there was a very good chance that I was just going to do the, basically the routine in Jackson Hole is that you either work in a fly shop or you're a fishing guy in the summer. And then in the wintertime, you tune skis or you're working ski patrol in Jackson Hole, which is a great life. And I kind of did that my first couple of winters. I didn't do ski patrol, but I helped rent skis out of the same, checked in the store, basically the fly shop converted over. But then all of a sudden, I got a couple opportunities to pick up some work down in Belize. I got to go to Belize basically to see if it was a place where I'd want to host my clients. And then all of a sudden it was like wait a minute I don't have to tune skis anymore. I don't have to crank on bindings for people to go up and down the hill. I can do this year round and that's what I did. Started doing the hosting trips and when I started hosting trips I was working at the store and even the store was like wait a minute we actually can make money in the fly fishing year round because we can send people all over the world. That's what we did.

**Marvin Cash (16:00):** Yeah it's pretty amazing I mean to your point you see those folks where they're either going down to South America, or they're going usually down to the Caribbean and that's kind of their second season.

**Jeff Currier (16:11):** Yeah, that's right. And at that time, we had a relationship with Frontiers, which are great folks. And they put together some great trips and I got to host them. But when I went on my own, I ironically ended up with Yellow Dog because of Jim Klug and I are very good friends. And he kind of started his company about the time I was leaving Jack Dennis. So it was perfect for me to be with those guys.

**Marvin Cash (16:33):** Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of kind of building this fishing life for yourself, you've been able to fish on six continents. And I guess I could ask you what you want to catch in Antarctica. And you've caught over 430 species of fish on the fly. And when did you get the travel bug?

**Jeff Currier (16:49):** Well, my parents traveled when we were kids around the country. My mom is kind of cute. She had a country western store in Massachusetts. And in that store, she sold cowboy boots and Western shirts for square dancing stuff, all kinds of weird stuff. So we would go out to Denver every year. We would drive the family van out and she would go visit these places and buy stuff. And then she started selling turquoise jewelry. So me and my brother would be running around the reservations with the Indian kids down in New Mexico. And she'd be buying jewelry. But I was always a kid like I was always so excited about, oh my God, what state are we going to, Dad, on this trip? And I'd be like, okay, we're really close to California. Can we go? There is. No. But I always wanted to go take it a little further. Kind of like, I guess, everybody that fishes, when you're walking down a river for the first time, you might have something you have to be back for or it's getting dark, but you just keep taking that extra step up around the next corner, even though you might be walking home in the dark. So I had that at a very young age. And then being in Jackson Hole at that fly shop, we had a lot of very wealthy customers. And they did go all over the world. We'd send them to Argentina and Belize and New Zealand, wherever. So I was, I couldn't talk to these people sensibly, number one, without doing some travel. But also it just made me crazy because it would be 20 below in January. So I'm like, you know what, I'm going to head down there. But I did it the old-fashioned way. I just grabbed a backpack and saved up for the plane ticket and then went down there and figured out how to do it yourself.

**Marvin Cash (18:30):** Yeah. It's an interesting thing too, because I think we're relatively close in age that I think kids today have really missed out on all that car travel that happened if you grew up in the 60s and the 70s. Right. And, gosh, I can remember sitting in the backseat on road trips and you had your Etch-a-Sketch and you had your books. You know, that was a whole big thing, right, to go to the dime store to buy the stuff to keep you occupied while you were in the car to get to wherever you were going.

**Jeff Currier (18:58):** Yeah, the good old days. Now they just look at their phone and they look out the window. They don't know what state they're in.

**Marvin Cash (19:04):** Yeah. So, gosh, I just think about all of those motels I stayed in as a kid. And you'd get there and hope you could get there early and the swimming pool was open. That's right. Yeah. So when did you decide, you got the travel thing, but when did you decide you wanted to see how many fish you could catch on the fly?

**Jeff Currier (19:23):** Well yeah you know I was always like a mini scientist as a kid. I was always checking out fish. It's very interesting because when my parents pretty much moved all my stuff to Iowa, that's where we ended up for many years, I'm in Wisconsin now but my dad was throwing boxes in my house. He's like, I found this in the basement and I pull out one was all calendars from like 1975, 76, 78 and every one of those calendars in the time I wrote down every single fish I caught. It's like four pickerel, I caught a crappie today. So I always was looking at fish and pretty excited about it. And then of course the first time I went saltwater fishing in Belize I was very intrigued. It wasn't just the bonefish, tarpon, permit. It was like everything got me excited and I wasn't really keeping tracks but I would talk to people, especially at the store like yeah a great time, make sure you keep eye out this cool fish too, these grouper in the right there when you're tarpon fishing. And somebody said to me one day he said man you've caught a lot of fish, have you ever added up all the fish you've caught? And I was like you mean like make a list and like yeah you need to have a list like a birder does. And I was like yeah that'd be kind of cool. And actually literally when that guy left the store I went over and grabbed some scratch paper and started writing it down. And I thought I had everything written down. All of a sudden I'd look at some pictures one day and I'm like oh wow there's a fish I don't think I have on my list. And I got serious about it. I made a real list and started, every time I went on a trip I would take a look at the species, the oddball species that I might find there and I made a point to try and hunt them down. And I still do that. And now it's kind of funny because I've caught a lot of fish that would have to be sometimes there's something really weird. Good example would be last year I was looking for this specific type of trigger fish called the vampire triggerfish yet where it's in the Seychelles. So we should be trevally fishing courier. We should be fishing for, looking for permit, big bonefish. What do you mean you want to catch the vampire triggerfish? I'm like, eh, it's kind of a long story, but yeah, let's go find it.

**Marvin Cash (21:32):** Yeah. It's an interesting thing though. Because I mean, and you and I've talked about this kind of in the past when we've seen each other at shows, it's a real skill to travel somewhere that you've never fished before to go get a fish that you've never caught before to eat your fly. And can you kind of break down that kind of research process for folks so they kind of have an understanding of kind of what goes into making that happen?

**Jeff Currier (21:56):** Yeah. In fact, I like that you asked this question because the fly fishing show, this is the time of year when we're getting our programs ready for the next year and that was something that Ben suggested. He's like, just how to catch a fish now that everybody's pursuing different species, it's like what is the process of going for something other than a trout? So yeah I'll tell you what it is. So you got to do the research as far as where the fish lives, what other fish live there too, what kind of bait there might be. A lot of times I'll just look, really study the picture of the fish and if the fish has a downturned mouth, you're going to be fishing on the bottom. If it looks like a trout or a bass then they're probably going to be looking up. So all kinds of things that I'll do and think about. And when I'm putting my flies together for one of these trips, there are some specific things that I'll go with to try and match what I learn or even just talking to people nowadays. But also there's flies you don't go anywhere in the world without like your Clousers or Minnow, you don't go anywhere in the world without a Clouser, fresh water, salt water, warm water, jungle, it doesn't matter. And same thing with you gotta have poppers, you gotta have Chernobyl Ants, you have to have Parachute Adams even if you're not on a trout trip and Parachute Adams is just it's a great imitation of a lot of things that fish eat. So that part's kind of the easy thing. You also got to make sure you get there. There are some places in the world like I guess the fish that I really want to catch bad is the goliath tiger fish. I've got almost all the tiger fish of Africa but I don't have a goliath but it's almost impossible to get to where they live because they're in the Congo which is not a safe place, not an easy place to get into. So yeah I mean it's a whole process that goes in to make sure you're prepared when you go on that trip and sometimes you're not prepared. I've made some mistakes. Probably the biggest mistake I ever made was when I went for golden mahseer in India. And this is a fish that back in the year 2002 pretty much nobody knew about. They've actually gotten kind of popular the last five, six years. But 25 years ago you asked about that fish nobody knew what you're talking about. So I had to guess and it's a fish that gets huge so I was over packed with tarpon flies and peacock bass flies and stuff like that only to learn in my three-month expedition over in India that they're like the world's largest carp and they would rather eat a size 10 Woolly Bugger even though they're 30 pounds than they would a big other fish. So you win some you lose some. You just try to win more than you lose.

**Marvin Cash (25:07):** Yeah and do you carry a tying kit with you?

**Jeff Currier (25:09):** I used to when I was younger and it definitely paid off sometimes, but nowadays travel is, you can only bring so much stuff on the airlines now. And when you're doing a do-it-yourself and you're moving around, you have to be light. So the only time I might bring some fly tying stuff is if I'm going to be based in the same place the whole time, whether it's a lodge or a camp, but in general, no, I do not.

**Marvin Cash (25:13):** Yeah. And it's interesting too, because I guess, do you do all of the research kind of books? Are you kind of getting human intelligence where you're sending emails and Skype calls and writing letters, probably writing letters more back when you first started doing this to kind of get kind of the local skinny on what's going on?

**Jeff Currier (25:32):** Oh, yeah. The good old days of going to a place where nobody's been like it is said India and not having the Internet to look everything up. It was pretty crazy. Back then, I basically would buy a Lonely Planet guide and just get off the plane with that. I'd have a little bit of a plan with some maps, but we would just have to go for it. It was really hard. I have to say that the success rate back then was very minimal in a place like India. Granted, I hitchhiked across Africa in 2005. The internet was around then, but most of Africa didn't have it, so we didn't have access to it when we were there. But now yeah it's so easy now Marvin it's almost embarrassing. Like I can number one you can almost find somebody that's fished every one of these places even some of the most remote places and you can usually DM them or something and somehow you get a hold of them get some info. And you can look at maps. You can Google Earth places. It's really easy but I do all those things before every trip absolutely mandatory.

**Marvin Cash (26:39):** Yeah it's interesting because I can remember when I guess I went to Argentina the first time in maybe 06, and you'd have to go to the Internet Cafe, right? Yeah, that's right. And so kind of a funny, kind of slightly creepy experience. Yeah, and they were slow.

**Jeff Currier (26:53):** That was still very slow, and you're paying by the hour. You're like, dude, I've got one email done. I'm paying a quarter.

**Marvin Cash (27:01):** Yeah, exactly. So which fish species took you the most trips to get on your list?

**Jeff Currier (27:07):** Well, the one that took the most trips was a milkfish, which is kind of annoying because when you really focus on a milkfish, you should get them because we have the right flies now. But I just had bad luck. There are fish that are menaces to you no matter what. And I think I cast him the first time in Baja. And I think on that particular trip, because I would be back to like 1996, I didn't know what the hell they were. I mean, they look a little bit like bonefish. And at that time, I thought it might have been like a bunch of 20-pound bonefish. I'm like, oh my God. And they were out in the blue water. And then as that fish started hitting the map in the early 2000s and around 2010, 2015, that stretch there. I was in Sudan on one of the early trips to Sudan. I guess you can't go to Sudan anymore in the last few months. But we got into a school of milkfish where there was literally miles of them. And they don't last long. They're on the surface doing their thing. But it might only last 10 minutes. It might only last an hour. Well, myself and everybody, Mark Murray, that I was fishing with, he hooked up. And he hooked his fish. The entire school went down. Took him an hour to land his fish. And that opportunity was gone. And I could go on and on. I had like five of these experiences where I needed to be with someone that caught one or the school would go down as soon as we got serious about fishing for them. So I finally got mine I guess it was 2021 at Providence Atoll in the Seychelles. And it's actually I have to tell you a little bit about this because I've been fishing the Indian Ocean a long time and I know a lot of the really good guys. They've become great friends of mine, most of them are South Africans. And I literally got off the plane with my clients, 11 clients, got on the boat and like Currier, this is going to be the trip where you get your milkfish. We're going to go for them tomorrow. We're going to do this, that and I'm like guys I'm getting off the plane with 11 people that are playing a ton of money to be here to catch a giant trevally, chase for it to triggerfish. I am not the priority tomorrow. They're like well it's the best day for milkfish with the tides and everything. I'm like well I'll throw a carrot out there at dinner time but I guarantee everybody's going to refuse it. Maybe my buddy Samuel will jump on that with me. So I did it at dinner. I said, by the way, everybody, we're going to have a great trip this week. Does anybody want to catch a milkfish? Tomorrow's the best day to do it. It was absolute crickets. I'm looking at my friend Sam, and he just turns his head because he wants a GT so bad. Also, one of the guys, probably the guy that I knew least on the entire trip, on my trip, was like, I'll go with you. If you want to catch a milkfish, I'll watch you do it. That'll be great. I was like, really? Okay, we'll do it. At Providence, three people to one guide. So there's three of us in a boat. So Rich watched and my friend Randy watched. And Randy was probably another guy that I knew the least on the trip. And we went out and found the school of milkfish and made a couple of casts. They wouldn't eat, wouldn't eat, getting frustrated. I went to do this big quick roll cast to change direction. My fly, my little algae fly spun through the air in this loop so hard that it hit me and it went through my bottom lip and into my top lip pretty much so my mouth, I mean I started, I was so shocked. I haven't hooked myself in years. Here I do it in front of these guys. And my buddy, the guide, is truly a buddy. He's just looking at me in total horror because first I do is open my mouth so I rip the top lip part apart and lips bleed, just the bleed was just unbelievable. And I tried to yank out the hook out of my bottom shot and of course the first hour didn't pinch my barb like an idiot. I'm the guy, reaches to pinch a barb. It was an awful mess. Luckily Randy is a doctor and he got up, he pulls the pliers off my holster and he goes this is going to hurt. You're sure you don't want to go back to lodge? I'm like I definitely don't want to go back to lodge, which was a boat not a lodge. Anyway he tried to rip it out the first time. It didn't come. Holy cow did that hurt. It was the most unbelievable pain I've had on a fishing trip in a while. He got it the second time and I was bleeding so much my line, it was all sticky. So I said you guys get up there, give it a try. It's not meant to be for me. And Randy catches one of them first cast. Oh no. It was awesome. It was awesome. Yeah and on the way home Rich caught one that night. So it was just a menacing fish but at the very last day of that trip the tide had recycled. We were there for 14 days, two weeks. And I got my milkfish. So it was kind of fun by then everybody knew the whole story and it was just a real party after I got my milky.

**Marvin Cash (31:55):** Yeah, it's amazing too, right? Because we're not talking about driving six hours. We're talking about flying halfway around the world to not catch a fish.

**Jeff Currier (32:04):** Yep. Yeah. Now, well, that fish specifically, I've actually, that first trip, I went for golden mahseer in India. That was three months. I did not get the fish. So that's probably the one I put the most time in before I actually got one. And honestly never thought I was going back to India again, because Granny and I, we did wing it, we did it do it yourself. And you know what India stands for Marvin? I do not. I never do it again. That's what it stands for when you live out of the backpack back in the year 2002. So I never thought I was going back, but I got invited back by who's now a great friend, Misty Dillon, who born and raised Indian and been back to India a few times and fished with Misty. And I got my mahseer with him and I will get many more hopefully with him.

**Marvin Cash (32:48):** Yeah, I can always remember the film tour movie where they were cutting the little balls off the tablecloths because they were eating mulberries and they made mulberry flies. And we know you're obsessed with fishing and you fish a lot. I think I saw your recent blog post and you put 16 out of 30 days of June on the water. How much of your success do you think is just by being fishy and just putting in your time?

**Jeff Currier (33:13):** Oh, a lot of it. Definitely. It makes a huge difference to stay fresh. It's not just the casting, it's not just doing your knots quick, but there is a sense we have, we're hunters. We really are. And you get rusty if you don't do it all the time. So it helps tremendously when I get out on these trips to just be tuned in to not just my skills, but the fish themselves. And I always tell my people, I do host a lot of trips for Yellow Dog. I'm just hounding them to get out there and fish. And like, well, it doesn't do me any good to go trout fishing Currier. We're going to the Seychelles. I'm like, yes, it does. It does a lot of good because it means you're out there doing it and just everything's going to be flowing for you better if you fish a lot at home.

**Marvin Cash (34:03):** Yeah. And speaking of a lot, I mean, how many days a year do you normally get out?

**Jeff Currier (34:08):** I average 144. So I think last year I did 142. I think this year will probably be about a, I might do 160 this year. It's hard to say, but the way I'm going, I'm just going frigging crazy. It's been an awesome summer, an awesome year.

**Marvin Cash (34:22):** Yeah, because you've got a new place to explore, right? Because you've kind of moved to Wisconsin, so you've got all this new water to fish, which probably helps a little bit, right?

**Jeff Currier (34:30):** That's exactly it. It is very invigorating. Every time I go out, I have an opportunity to go to completely new water. To be honest, the muskies, the walleyes, the pike on fly is, I'm pretty good. The pike stuff's been doing a long time, but I'm learning about muskies. Walleye are always challenging. It's just, yeah, it's great, man. I can't even wait. Even my trout fishing around here is different. So it's really fun to go out and chase the trout on some of my local rivers here. It's cool. I'm digging it. I knew it would be this way, which is why I made the move.

**Marvin Cash (35:04):** Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's kind of funny, right? Because, I mean, you spent a long time in Idaho. And, I mean, there's a time, right, where you're like, gosh, do you want to go fish $3? We've done it a lot, right? And it's good, but it's not the same.

**Jeff Currier (35:14):** Exactly. Yeah. I mean, my friends thought I was crazy. They really do. Now I think they're, they follow me on my blog. We talk a lot and they're like, I think I'm going to come visit each other. I'm kind of sick of it here too. I'm going to have a look out there. And like, no, you're not. You're not moving out of here. You can come visit, but you know, this is a new life for me.

**Marvin Cash (35:34):** Yeah. And so if we wanted to kind of boil it down, maybe this is like the beginning of the outline for your talk for Ben and the fly fishing shows in 2024, from that whole process of catching a new fish on new water, how should the average angler think about that and apply that to his day-to-day fishing?

**Jeff Currier (35:52):** Well I think it's like I'm saying. I mean there's a lot of people out there that would love to go chase permit but they may not be able to do it, financial or too much time at work or family stuff. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be in training. I guess a good example there, where I lived in Idaho, one thing I was very passionate about was fishing Blackfoot Reservoir for carp. And I loved it, but I also knew that those carp take it fly the same way the permit do. Like you're sliding your fly. Sometimes you don't see what the fish is doing and they grab it, spit it out just as quick as a permit. So here I am in my backyard, essentially, making myself to be much more successful on the other side of the world. Four months later, I'm going to be in St. Brandon's Atoll trying to catch a yellow permit. So it is important, just like telling my folks, I know we're not going to be fishing for trout in the Seychelles, but I still think you need to get out there because it's all about the hunt, no matter what fish you're going for. Keep your stealth, keep your casting line, keep your sixth sense about what's going on around you. It's very important, really important.

**Marvin Cash (37:10):** Yeah, it's interesting because I mean, I always think about it. I always try to work on process, right? So I don't have to remember stuff. And all that stuff, like trying to wade the same way every time and having my gear arranged the same way every time. And not that I don't change things, but I always try to think about it from that process perspective too.

**Jeff Currier (37:28):** Yeah, it's important.

**Marvin Cash (37:29):** Yeah. And the interesting thing is we haven't even really talked about the logistics because, I mean, I've heard you tell stories about like sleeping multiple nights on like a trawler to go somewhere to fish. You have a lot of logistics around your travel, and I was wondering if you kind of talked to folks a little bit about kind of how you do it, what you carry and kind of what your approach is.

**Jeff Currier (37:50):** Yeah, so like, there's all different kinds of trips. When I'm hosting a trip for Yellow Dog, everything is pretty well organized in advance. And if a person goes on that trip, they don't have to worry about anything except their personal belongings. But for me, for instance, if Granny and I were going to go do another African trip or something, which hopefully we will, there's a few things that I'd do. Go anywhere in the world without. One would be like a water purifier. That's a critical thing because you're going to run into a situation where you cannot get clean water to drink. And you get some bacteria in Africa or Asia or wherever, you're going to be pretty damn miserable. So mandatory. I always have energy bars of some sort. I'm kind of sponsored by a company called Kate's Bars. And I always have a good supply of those with me because when you're down, that will help you out pretty tremendously, get a little more energy going. You can have a flashlight. You should have your special meds. A lot of my expeditions when I was young were two to three months at a time. And I got a toothache doing the Inca Trail fishing. We were fishing, really, the headwaters of the Amazon that trip for rainbows, ironically. And I got a severe toothache, and toothache can kill you. And I've learned on that trip from being miserable for two weeks and luckily surviving it that I carry a special drug. That's ampicillin. If I get a toothache down on a trip, I can take that. At least I'll live. Same with like respiratory infections, which you often get when you go to India because some of the cities, the air pollution is so bad. I definitely carry a little kind of a safety kit as far as meds go. And obviously carry my phone with me. But I handwrite like very important numbers, emergency numbers. So for me, it would be like global rescue, which is if you work for Yellow Dog, you have to have that. But if I were to break a leg or even get into civil unrest, I could have been in Sudan when this thing blew up a couple of months ago, because I've been there a few times. They'll get me out of there. So in a lot of common sense, let's just say that Marvin, that's probably the thing that there's the biggest shortage of when you see people traveling is common sense. Because when you get yourself into a mess, it's usually that phone's not going to work because you're in that mess and you're in a place where it's not going to work. So you have to figure out how to get out of it. Nobody, just having your head together and patience and all that good stuff.

**Marvin Cash (40:28):** Yeah, interesting. And I imagine too, I know taking hosting trips is totally different, right? Because you've got to have backup rods and all kinds of stuff. And I'm sure Yellow Dog handles a lot of that logistic stuff for you. But when you're fishing and you're going to be gone far away for a long period of time, how do you skinny down your gear kit?

**Jeff Currier (40:49):** Well, I don't. I used to be like, okay, I'm going to Belize and bring a 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. That's great. You don't have everything you need. But if that 11 breaks, then your 11 weight is completely done. So, for instance, this Seychelles, people are like, what rods do I need? I'll probably have to buy some. I was like, do you have a 9-weight and a 12-weight? And they're like, no, but I got two 9s and two 11s. And I'm like, perfect, that'll work. And the idea behind that for me is, okay, I don't have to bring extra reels. If you bring a 7-weight, an 8-weight, a 9-weight, a 10-weight, a 11-weight, a 12, that's five reels right there. If I just bring two 9s and two 12s, I mean, really, I can get by with two reels. Rod and brake, reeled 99% of the time, don't brake. So I can really limit my gear right there because, quite frankly, reels are the heaviest part of your equipment. So if you can limit those right off the bat, that's good. You don't need clothes on most trips. You've got to have a couple pairs of everything, but don't go overboard. Even if you're winging it in the jungle, you can usually go to the water and just rinse your clothes off. Or if you're staying at a place for a day or something, you can have a little soap and kind of clean them off a little bit. But the truth of the matter in the tropics, the second you put on a clean clothes, eight minutes later, you're sweating already. So it doesn't matter. So limit that stuff big time. And flies. People are always excited. They're tying flies for trips, and they almost always bring too many flies. For me, it's one fly box per trip, no matter where I'm going in the world. And you quickly learn that I really don't lose that many flies. As long as it's got halfway to the right stuff, one box is perfect. So I am a master of it. I fly a lot, and I don't think my bag's ever even close to 50 pounds on a trip.

**Marvin Cash (42:42):** Yeah and it's definitely not as much fun to fly with stuff like it used to be right. I mean it really is not fun to carry a bunch and check a bunch of bags nope and even when you get into your whatever accommodation you have whether it's a lodge or you are winging it, if you have too much stuff you can't find stuff. And it sounds ridiculous well it's two duffel bags Currier I think I'll find it. Well you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised what you won't find without having to dump it all over the bed. In America, rooms are big. Any other place in the world, they're like a quarter the size everywhere. So less is more. The old saying truly is.

**Marvin Cash (43:23):** So what does that boil down? What are the bags that you take with you?

**Jeff Currier (43:28):** So usually I have my waterproof Yeti or my waterproof Simms rollaway duffel. I should mention this. Sometimes I take two duffels and I split my stuff down the middle. So like if I was going to Africa tomorrow, that is a long way to go. There is a slight chance a bag could get lost. So I will usually split my stuff down the middle and have two bags, two 20-pound bags. And if they both make it, which they probably will, then I'll just leave one bag behind at the first accommodation I have, probably in the capital city of wherever. A lot of times they'll store stuff for you and then I'll put it all together. But yeah, definitely a waterproof duffel bag. And you have to have at least one for every trip because your stuff's going to be laying out on a tarmac somewhere. Or you're going to be in a boat and there's going to be three inches of water in the bottom because you're leaking or critical.

**Marvin Cash (44:27):** Yeah, particularly with the camera gear. And it's funny you say that because I've got a Fishpond bag and I think it's great to travel in. But the great thing is then you unpack your stuff when you get where you're going and keep all your gear in that. And that's your boat bag.

**Jeff Currier (44:38):** Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, I've ruined enough camera gear to know that I don't like doing that. No, it's expensive. It is expensive. And so, I've heard some of the crazy stories of things that have happened to you on the road. But what's the most challenging travel situation you've ever been in?

Oh, God. Boy, there's been some amazing ones. I'd say there's probably 10 that are absolutely unbelievable that I thought my life was over. But one of the worst ever was on that trip when Grant and I did three months in India. We had been in the bush. We had actually been in Nepal and we did the Everest base camp trek and we fished all through the lower Himalayas there. It was awesome. The fishing stunk, but it was awesome. But we came out with the intention that we didn't want to drag a lot of money with this on that. So we were going to go to an ATM. Well, we couldn't find an ATM when we got back to the hills. And I think we had maybe $150 that we had turned over to Indian rupees. But that started getting lean. We kept thinking, OK, the next town is a pretty good city. We'll get some money there. Well, we finally got to the big city of Agra, which is where the Taj Mahal is. And we were out of money now. We basically were down to no money. And we got off this bus. Luckily, we had paid before we got in the bus. And I said, we'll find a rickshaw guy right now, and we'll have him take us to a bank. So we get this rickshaw, a bicycle rickshaw. We hop on the back with all of, we each had a pretty small bag, really, because it was a three-month trip. We didn't have a lot of stuff. That was interesting as far as clothes on that trip because our clothes would literally rot off our bodies. So we would just go to like a tailored place and have them make us new clothes. We were like true Indians. It was pretty cool. But anyway, this guy, I'm like, hey, can you take me by an ATM machine? He goes, I think I know where there's one. So he rides like, I mean, it was like a 45-minute ride. I'm like, oh my God, I've always got 10 rupees for this bike ride. We get there and we can't get the machine to work. So I'm like okay dude, how about just the bank? He goes well it's a holiday. He goes there's no banks open. And every day in India was a holiday. There's always something going on. We didn't really know that because we were kind of new there at that time. So we were screwed. I'm like dude I can't even pay you right now. I feel terrible and we have no way to get an accommodation or anything till tomorrow. And here's the fascinating thing though about travel. Here we are on our knees and this guy has nothing. And he says, I have a friend that owns an accommodation. Let's go see him and see if we can put you up for a night, but I'll come get you tomorrow. And I'll take you to the bank when it opens and you can pay me and pay him. Let's go see if that works. And it did. But I got to say, I thought we were doomed on that situation right there. Because we had a lot of close calls prior to that. It's all kinds of crazy things going on. So that's a good one. I got a lot of good ones.

**Marvin Cash (47:50):** Yeah, it's interesting hearing you tell that story makes me remember like my early days, like when I was in college and I would travel. You'd have to go somewhere that would cash a traveler's check without charging you a ton of money. Right.

**Jeff Currier (48:02):** Yeah, right. You don't want to lose it.

**Marvin Cash (48:03):** And there were no ATMs. And it's funny because I was telling one of my boys and you'd have to go buy the phone card. Right. Because that was how it worked. And you didn't just activate your international plan on your cell phone. But I also remember, didn't you, didn't you have a really bouncy ride with malaria in the back of a pickup truck somewhere? I think you told me that story when we were together at the shows earlier this year.

**Jeff Currier (48:25):** Yeah, I've definitely had some bad sick issues. The amount of travel I've done, I've probably had four or five of those, but yeah, I got, we're in Namibia, oh no, Zambia on the border of basically on the Zambezi River. And it was kind of winding down the end of our trip after hitchhiking across. We were there about two and a half months and started coming down with something, started with the shits and then started throwing up. And when you have both at the same time, you're in bad shape. And I remember that night too, because we actually had a python come into our room and we had to catch it and get that thing out of there. They're pretty, they don't really try to bite you or anything, but it was just a rough night. And we were staying with kind of a little accommodation, and there were the people that ran it were, they were born and raised Namibians, but they were from the U.S. at one time. So they could relate to the situation I was in because my wife, Granny, went down there, and she was down and woke them up and like, yeah, my husband is really, really sick. I'm kind of worried about him. And he goes, well, let's get into the hospital in Zambia downtown and blue soccer, which was like a five hour drive. And I'm like, no, I'm fine. It's just food poisoning. It'll just, I'm just going to sleep it off. And he goes, no, you've got malaria and we need to get to the hospital right away. So yeah, four hour bounce around the truck puking off the back there and not too much fun. And I remember when I got into the hospital in Lusaka and it was it was rough dude. I'm telling you it was not looking good. And this would have been 2005 so I don't know, you think you're going to get something when they shove the needle in you. And I definitely was worried about that. And normally back then I carried my own needle and I had thrown it away because it was towards the end of the trip and it was kind of a nuisance or I think the packaging had opened anyway, wore out my backpack. Anyway, so I'm like, man, I want to watch you take this out of the package and everything. He draws my blood and stuff, and it turns out he's like, they come back about 10 minutes later, like, you don't have malaria. I think you have food poisoning. I'm like, damn it. I knew I had food poisoning, but it was bad. So I got my blood drawn at this shady, shady place, and it ended up being just food poisoning anyway, like I thought.

**Marvin Cash (50:52):** Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, and it's been almost 20 years, so you're all good on the needle front. So, yeah. I got a free ride back to Lusaka.

**Jeff Currier (50:59):** I didn't have to take a bus, actually. Even though it was a rough ride back to the pickup, I still got there.

**Marvin Cash (51:03):** Yeah, and so I know you kind of take your medical kit with you, but I know you also, these trips can be physically grueling even if you don't get sick. How do you prepare yourself for that component of your trips?

**Jeff Currier (51:15):** Well, in general, I try to just stay physically fit all the time, whether I have a trip on the books or nothing. Like, for instance, my daily routine, my routine today was I rode my bike about eight miles. But two of those miles were like straight up this. We do have hills in Wisconsin and we have a brutal one in our town. So I went to the top of that, down and back up the top of it twice and then did some light weight lifting. Today was upper body, just keeping my arms and stuff. But I'm not trying to get bigger. I'm just trying to, it's funny. You mentioned you're 53. I turned 58 here shortly. It's not a matter of trying to get in better shape anymore. It's trying not to lose what you had yesterday. So there's aches and pains, and you just want to make sure they don't get any worse. So that's kind of the workout I do. But that being said, like I have an expedition to Bhutan next April. You will see me working it pretty hard at the gym, at the shows this winter. And when I get home from the last show, I'll go into like an intense training because you don't want to do something stupid like pull a muscle and miss a couple of days of fishing. You don't want to be weak for your trip. So any more strong you can be, the better off. And endurance is huge. Some of the places I go, it's like it could be 95 degrees and we might have to go for a 10-mile hike over rocks. So I need to be prepared to be able to handle that. And I think we're at this kind of funny where I think it helps me the most sometimes when you get off a plane and you have to make a connection and you have a short time and you have to run to the airport. It seems like I'm always the first one to the gate. If I'm with friends and like, oh, Cal Kerr, what are you doing? I'm like, I did not want to miss the plane. They're like, yeah, we couldn't even keep up with you. I'm like, you know, dude, that's because I'm in shape for this trip. And it just paid off because there has been times when I made the plane and whoever I was with didn't run fast enough. So, yeah, it's very important. I even tell all my clients, I'm like, listen, maybe you are 80 years old and you're not in very good shape, but you have accepted you're 80. I guarantee if you walk to the post office this next three weeks for a trip, you will be able to walk more in the flats. And they're like, yeah, that's a great idea. And it is a great idea. So true.

**Marvin Cash (53:40):** Yeah. Yeah, I think I remember you and Landon sharing fitness tips because Landon's a bit of a workout freak while we were eating dinner. I can't remember which of you two guys were talking about the phenomenal number of crunches you did every day.

**Jeff Currier (53:53):** I do a lot. Tomorrow's the day, unfortunately. I hate it. That's the one I hate. I hate when I have to get on the floor and do that crap. But it's important. What's the magic? Yeah, go ahead. Your back is the most important thing to keep you going. And it's the first thing to go on most people. So if you can keep your core muscles strong, it makes a difference. And you know what it makes a real big difference for is being in the bow of a boat. I watch people that have sea legs. They just can't stand there either. You know, they can't stay up on small waves. They have to get down and they can't fish properly or they can't stay up there for more than 45 minutes before they need a break. I love fishing those guys because then I get the bow, but I don't want to be that person myself. So, yeah, the crunches is important.

**Marvin Cash (54:38):** Yeah, what's the magic crunch number?

**Jeff Currier (54:41):** Well, I'll do like maybe eight different types. So yesterday I think I did 360 but I do like maybe a dozen four different types, and then do a couple that I do a lot of. Those exercise, those medicine balls, that's like the best thing I ever got, but I hate that. When I'm done, I kick it as far as I can across the lawn. It kicks my ass. Holy cow, that thing is vicious. It is good. It's a lifesaver.

**Marvin Cash (55:08):** Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned Bhutan. What's your trip roster for your upcoming exotic locations you want to share with folks?

**Jeff Currier (55:18):** The really upcoming site, actually, I think Blane and I are going to try and do some fishing in Virginia, off the coast. Hopefully, in the next few weeks here, we'll see if we can pull it together. He's been busy. I've been busy. I've done a couple of Canada trips. I'm going to go see the guys from Gangler. Randy's going to go with me on that. So we're going to go up to northern Manitoba and fish for pike in Lake Charlotte and do a northern lights thing. And after that, we have the world championships of fly fishing. I retired last year, but I've already been invited to go back. So I'm going to participate in that. And then I got some Mexico stuff. I'll be in Baja like I usually am. And then it'll be time to work. I'm sure something will come up in between that, but Bhutan is in April. And then after Bhutan, I have a lot of stuff. I'm going kind of crazy the next few years. I'm doing a lot of hosting in Africa and a lot of hosting in the Seychelles, Indian Ocean type stuff, which is good because I am a fanatic of it.

**Marvin Cash (56:17):** Yeah. And is the best way for folks to find the hosted trip stuff, your website, and probably Yellow Dog has probably a separate listing for all the places that you take folks?

**Jeff Currier (56:26):** Absolutely. Yep. But the best thing to do in that is just ask me. And I'm very reachable. I've got my website, which has a contact button. I always tell people that's the absolute best because it sends me an email right away. And I'm pretty good about checking my email a couple of times a day, especially when I'm home. And if I don't, you're going to hear from me within 48 hours. You can DM me, but I'll be honest with you. I'm not a phone guy. I'm still old school. So there'll be times when I don't have my phone with me for a couple of days. Guys are pretty crazy, but I'm really in that way. I was the last guy to ever get a cell phone and probably still don't use it enough, even though it's a great tool. But yeah, just shoot me a note and say, I want to get on your travel list and I'll send you a list, send you reports when I have a trip coming up.

**Marvin Cash (57:13):** Got it. And is there anything else you want to share with our listeners this evening before I let you hop?

**Jeff Currier (57:20):** I mean, I guess I just have to say, I've been a lucky guy to fish around the world and make a living in fly fishing. But I say lucky. Everybody out there can do the same thing if you really want to do it, especially the young folks that are listening. You just have to put your mind to it. You have to have the patience to do it. But work hard, fish hard, share your knowledge when you learn stuff. If somebody asks you and wants you to help them out, for goodness sakes, help them be a better fisherman too. And it all comes back. It's just amazing. People will discover that you're a good fly fisherman or a good person if you just keep doing it for a while. And this is one of those sports and industries where there's a lot of generous people out there, a lot of good people out there. And we all kind of share our fishing time and everything with each other. And it's worked out for me. Got to see the world and get to work with some great people. So that would be my last kind of advice or something I would say.

**Marvin Cash (58:29):** Yeah, it's funny you say that. I always tell my boys to be the change they want to see in the world, right? Yeah, right. Yeah. And so if folks want to keep track of your adventures on and off the water, what's the best way for them to keep track of Jeff Currier?

**Jeff Currier (58:43):** I would say jeffcurrier.com. That's my website. And I have a blog. And my blog is different than most blogs in that my last entry was in May of 2021. It was actually yesterday. And I've written about every single day of fishing since late 2009. And then my Instagram is a great way too, which is jeffcur65. Because when something really good happens, fishing-wise in my life or even art or travel, I usually post it there. And that will remind you to go check out my blog and get the full details on what's going on. Usually some pretty cool stuff. And there will definitely be some cool stuff this summer.

**Marvin Cash (59:24):** Probably some big smallmouth and maybe a muskie or two.

**Jeff Currier (59:28):** Yeah there you go.

**Marvin Cash (59:29):** And I'll drop all that stuff in the show notes for folks. Sounds good. Yeah well Jeff I really appreciate you taking a little bit of time away from the water and chatting with me this evening. My pleasure Marvin I enjoy it too.

**Jeff Currier (59:39):** Yeah take care and be well.

**Marvin Cash (59:40):** All right buddy thanks bye-bye.

**Jeff Currier (59:42):** Bye.

**Marvin Cash (59:47):** Well folks I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Again if you like the podcast please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. And don't forget to head over to artisananglerllc.com to check out the fly trap. Tight lines, everybody.