Oct. 30, 2024

S6, Ep 130: Casting in Color: Mac Brown's Fall Fly Fishing Strategies

In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash connects with Mac Brown to discuss the unique challenges and joys of fall fly fishing in the Bryson City area. As the peak of fall foliage passes, Mac shares his insights on navigating the leaf litter that can deter anglers during this season. He emphasizes the effectiveness of using dry flies, particularly with orange hues, to avoid snagging leaves and offers a technique called the "circle pickup" to keep your fly clean.

Mac and Marvin delve into the seasonal changes, from the colorful landscapes to the importance of safety and preparedness when wading in unfamiliar waters. They discuss the benefits of carrying a wading staff and having a survival kit on hand, especially as temperatures drop.

Looking ahead, Mac is gearing up for a trip to Arkansas, where he'll reunite with fellow angler Davy Wotton for some fishing and possibly upland bird hunting. He also previews his busy schedule of fly fishing shows, including appearances at the Great Waters Fly Fishing Expo and various Fly Fishing Shows, where he'll be teaching alongside notable instructors like Gary Borger.

Listeners are encouraged to embrace the fall fishing opportunities before winter sets in and reminded to check out the class signups for the upcoming shows. Tight lines, everyone!

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Transcript
Marvin

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Flower, back with another casting angles with Mac Brown.


Marvin

Mac, how are you?


Mac

I'm doing great.


Mac

How you doing, Marvin?


Marvin

As always.


Marvin

Just trying to stay out of trouble.


Marvin

And we were talking before we started recording, you were telling me that you've already got.


Marvin

You're on the other side of peak fall foliage in the Bryson City area.


Mac

Yeah, I think it is.


Mac

I think the peak was probably late in the week, know, Thursday, Friday last week.


Mac

And it's still really colorful and lots of good colors to be seen.


Mac

But I think we've seen the best of it thus far.


Mac

So I think it's about to get windy and maybe have some of them come down soon.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

Which kind of gets us on our fall topic, which is, you know, some people, it bugs them so much they don't even fish this time of year.


Marvin

It's kind of like having moss and grass on the Big Horn out west, but dealing with leaf litter on the bottom and on top of the water and kind of how to get out there and catch a few without going nuts.


Mac

That's right.


Mac

Yeah.


Mac

I mean a big, a big part of it is too just the tactics of what people choose, you know, like when, once the leaf litter starts, probably the easiest thing to stay with is to stay up top, you know, stay on.


Mac

There's a lot of good orange, orange color with dry flies this time of year like an orange palmer or a orange stimulator and avoid trying to pull things against leaves, you know, like wet fly.


Mac

Not a good idea.


Mac

Streamers even the worst idea because you got a bigger hook, you pulling it in, you're going to get leaves every, every cast.


Mac

So you can actually fish with a lot of leaf litter with single dry when you're doing it correctly without hanging a lot of leaves.


Mac

And one of the, one of the tricks there is we'll use a circle pick up a lot and that'll make the leaf fall off as soon as you go to pick the fly out of the water.


Mac

But the other thing is going for those drag free long floats with leaf litter, you're not going to pick up leaves if you're flowing the same speed as the leaves are.


Mac

So, you know, if people are complaining about getting lots of leaves fishing a dry fly, chances are the drift is not Drake free, you know, so that's a good thing to think about.


Mac

So it's probably a good educational teaching tool having leaves this time of year.


Mac

Yeah.


Marvin

So talk about the circle pickup.


Marvin

Is that different than the roll cast Pickup.


Mac

Yeah, we just take the rod tip, and so you're following your drift rods, following along where the drift is.


Mac

And when we get ready to pick it up, we just act like your fingers inside it or the tip, we just draw a little small circle, like inside of a mason jar with your finger from the.


Mac

From the butt end of the rod, and it just sends a spiral going down the line.


Mac

Like that little circle will transmit all the way down through the leader to where the fly is.


Mac

And when it gets near between the nail knot and depending on how long your leader is.


Mac

So that's not really a good thing to say, the nail knot, but when it gets down near the fly end, then we go into our back cast.


Mac

And what it does, does a couple things.


Mac

One, if it's leaf time, it's going to make the leaf fall off right on the pickup.


Mac

And the other thing it does, it drives the fly, because the fly is going to come through that same circle that you initiated when you go into tension up for the back cast.


Mac

So it comes through that little circle at a really high rate of speed, and all the water's flung out of it.


Mac

On the pickup, this is pretty simple.


Mac

Just sit and draw little circles with your finger, left or right.


Mac

Doesn't matter which way.


Mac

As far as in general open water, if you're fishing a fly downstream, you'd always do the circle towards the end, towards the middle of the river.


Mac

But if you're doing it on something big, like the tuck of cg, it's not going to matter.


Mac

Pick it up whatever way knocks you out, you know?


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And I would say, you know, one thing in the fall, and I learned this lesson the hard way, is, you know, even if you are a comfortable wader and you don't need it for the waiting conditions, it's kind of nice to have a waiting staff this time of year because I've stepped in places that I thought, you know, might have been a foot, maybe 18 inches deep, and it ended up going on up to my chest and getting wet.


Marvin

And that's no fun either.


Mac

Oh, especially on the cold mornings.


Mac

Coming up in November, that can put a damper on the day for sure.


Mac

But yeah, that's good advice.


Mac

You know, either knowing really well where you are, I mean, if you go to the same, like where I live, real close to the creek.


Mac

I mean, I fish that so much.


Mac

I know kind of where deep or not deep, but it's like on bigger waters or unfamiliar waters.


Mac

Yeah, I think that's a good tip, you know, to Have a, have a staff to have something that can kind of fill along the bottom with.


Mac

To see where it's going to drop off.


Mac

Yeah.


Marvin

And I think it's also too, you know, as we get into.


Marvin

Gets chillier in the fall and into the wintertime, I think it's not a horrible idea to, you know, at a minimum keep a, a change of clothes or at least another pair of socks in the car because if you get wet, you know, you can get really chilled and, you know, that's something.


Marvin

And I would say, you know, I always have a survival kit in my sling pack with a space blanket and stuff like that in case I'm, you know, way away from the car and, you know, something bad happens or I become inadvertently stupid.


Marvin

You know, I can get the space blanket out and you know, have some matches and stuff if I actually need to have a fire.


Mac

Oh, yeah, no, it's a good idea because.


Mac

Yeah, it gets cold.


Mac

We're going, we're going in after I go to Arkansas next week and we're taking the kids in there because Connor's out still from school for a while with the, with, with Asheville.


Mac

You know, because Asheville got hit so hard with the hurricane, they're out until the first of the year.


Mac

It's online classes only for college.


Mac

And so, so both of them are like, great to get to go back country, you know, camping.


Mac

So we're looking at the week of like 15th, 16th, going back in there on that, that weekend.


Mac

And that'll be a lot of fun.


Mac

But I like going in there, like when it gets cooler like that.


Mac

It's, it's a lot of fun camping in that kind of weather.


Mac

Yeah.


Marvin

And you were, we were talking too and it kind of, you know, you were talking about a tip for, you know, where sometimes the big fish like to hang out when there's a lot of leaf litter in the water.


Mac

Yeah.


Mac

That mainly looked for the swirls like in the high, low pressure indifference where you have these big seams.


Mac

And you'll see lots of times when the leaves get heavy on the water.


Mac

It actually helps people's water reading ability.


Mac

Huge.


Mac

Because when the leaves are in the water, you'll see these revolving depending on which side of the river we're talking.


Mac

But the back swirl will either be counterclockwise or clockwise of the leaf litter and in the middle of that, of that circle, it's like the eye of the storm.


Mac

It's always clear so that there won't be any leaves in about a 2 to 3 foot area just smack smack dab in the middle of all that leafs going around and around.


Mac

And those fish will sit underneath that.


Mac

Cause that's the only window of the surface when the leaves get big.


Mac

And that should happen in the next eight, 10 days.


Mac

Those are really ideal times.


Mac

It makes it super easy to figure out where you're going to fish.


Mac

And actually the dry fly is underrated a lot in the fall.


Mac

I mean a lot of the people that influenced me as a young, you know, a young kid in East Tennessee and over here, like with Jimmy Estus and a lot of good mentors that I got, you know, to fish with a lot when I was 20 years old.


Mac

Now I'll be 61 in November.


Mac

So that was 41 years ago.


Mac

But that's what they look forward to all, all season is that time of year with the.


Mac

Just what we're talking about with the leaf litter and fishing only a dry fly.


Mac

And that can be one of the funner times of the year for sure.


Mac

Up top.


Mac

Yeah.


Marvin

It's also a good trick like you know, on bigger water like out west, not in the fall, but like in the summertime when you get that, you know, kind of that foam or scum in the back eddies.


Mac

Right.


Marvin

You know, it's a lot of sun protection.


Marvin

Right.


Marvin

And so a lot of times big fish will sit under that and you can either, you know, fish a dry in it or you can pull a streamer under it and you can sometimes get a really nice surprise.


Mac

Oh, that's what I like.


Mac

I've got a lot of good memories, you know, up in the park over the years.


Mac

During that time of year, just fishing the swirls and I mean I'll go up, I might skip hundreds of yards of water just to find that kind of a condition, you know, with the big swirl and that's usually where that's usually pretty much high probability location for that to happen.


Mac

You know, that's what makes it fun.


Mac

It makes it really easy to find them too.


Mac

So yeah, it's one of my favorite times of the year for sure.


Mac

Marvin.


Mac

It's just the coloration.


Mac

I mean it's just so, so gorgeous the colors overall.


Mac

And then to be on the water too.


Mac

Like we did a couple hour hike with Jennifer today and we didn't, we didn't fish at all.


Mac

But we just walked up, up Forney Creek up high and it was just gorgeous.


Mac

Up along the creek.


Mac

The colors are just, they're still really good.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And it's interesting too.


Marvin

Right.


Marvin

So we're at the end of October, what, in two weeks you're going to be heading to.


Marvin

Heading to Arkansas, right?


Mac

Yeah, I think I'm going to go actually this.


Mac

Probably go down there Sunday.


Mac

I talked to, I talked to another buddy that's working down there that he's been out here several times.


Mac

He comp fished a lot, named Mike Sexton.


Mac

And so I'm gonna go early because Mike's got to work.


Mac

Well, I can't play anyway on the weekend when I talk to the club, I think it's the 8th and 9th, or maybe it's the 9th and 10th.


Mac

I'd have to look at the calendar.


Mac

But the two days that I'm talking to the club, of course I can't fish and do that too.


Mac

And I think he's working that weekend.


Mac

So I'm going down early to go have some, some days on the white.


Mac

I'm sure that'll be gorgeous down there right now, too.


Mac

So I'm going to go a little bit early because I'm driving down and if I'm going to drive 12 hours to and from, I like to have four or five days to kind of, you know, that's where I started as a kid.


Mac

I don't remember if we've ever said that on the podcast, but that's.


Mac

My granddad had a place there in Mountain Home when I was little and that's where I first started really fly fishing was the Ram Mountain Home.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And you're gonna get to spend some time with, with Davey Watton, you know, and it's kind of interesting because, you know, Davey, when he winds down his fishing season, then he's an upland, you know, bird guide.


Marvin

So you'll get a few days on the water with him.


Mac

Oh, yeah, that's going to be fun.


Mac

We might even go do some of that and might do a little bit of bird.


Mac

There's a lot of that going on right now already, so I don't know, we'll just have to play that by ear.


Mac

But that's, I'm looking forward to getting down there.


Mac

That's going to be a fun, fun trip.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And then to refresh folks on your show schedule, you're doing all the forensic shows except for Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and what else have you got on the calendar.


Mac

In the Great Water fly Fishing Expo, St.


Mac

Paul, Twin Cities, and that'll be in March, and I'm sure there'll be some more too.


Mac

But that's right now it's pretty full through March, so I don't, I don't know When I say get full, it'll be after that.


Mac

The many other ones that come in after, after March, I'm sure.


Mac

But I don't have many weekends that first couple months, so I'm sure I'm not going to add many on the weekends because they're already pretty well, you know, committed to that.


Mac

And I'm looking forward to starting the one out up in Marlboro and then Edison.


Mac

That'll be a fun week up, you know, Marlboro and then go to Edison for that.


Mac

And then I have to look at the schedule even.


Mac

I think Atlanta's after that.


Mac

Think Atlanta's the what, the 1st of February, around the 1st.


Mac

Let me look here.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And then Denver and, and then, you know, the other thing, too is because I've been watching this on social media.


Marvin

All of your classes at the fly fishing shows with Gary, the link for the signups are already up.


Mac

Okay, great.


Mac

Yeah, that's.


Mac

That's good.


Mac

That's.


Mac

I hadn't even looked.


Mac

You're ahead of me, Martin.


Mac

But that's good.


Mac

That's.


Mac

That's a good thing.


Mac

I think the one will be fun in Marlboro.


Mac

Gary.


Mac

Gary's not doing the Marlboro one, but Christopher rounds from Switzerland, he's coming over to teach that one with me.


Mac

And so I'm really looking forward to spending the day, you know, with Chris.


Mac

And he's been.


Mac

He's been doing that for a really long time throughout Europe.


Mac

And he's one of the few people that I know that do a pretty similar occupation to myself, you know, so it's going to be fun learning tricks off one another.


Marvin

Yeah.


Marvin

And, you know, so I'll try to remember to drop a link to the class signups in the show notes.


Marvin

And you know, folks, as I always say, yo, it to yourself to get out and catch a few because when it's cold in February and you're not fishing, you're going to wish you got out, you know, here in the next two or three weeks.


Marvin

Tight lines, everybody.


Marvin

Tight lines, Mac.


Mac

Tight lines.


Mac

Marvin.


Mac Brown Profile Photo

Mac Brown

Guide | Casting Instructor | Author

Mac Brown is the owner of Mac Brown Fly Fish and Fly Fishing Guide School in Western NC. Mac created the first full-time fly fishing guide service in Western North Carolina. The first Delayed Harvest on the Upper Nantahala River in early 1993 was also a result of his efforts.

Mac Brown is the author of “Casting Angles” which is a fly casting handbook for those on the journey of understanding the mechanics of the cast. The ACA, FFI, and others have endorsed this text as a reference for instructors as well. Mac is a Master Casting Instructor through the Fly Fishers International.