S6, Ep 140: Navigating Virginia's Bass and Musky Waters with Austin Conrad

Marvin Cash
00:00:04

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Marvin Cash
00:00:07

On this episode, I'm joined by Austin Conrad, co owner of Virginia Trophy Guides.

Marvin Cash
00:00:13

Austin and I take a deep dive into Virginia smallmouth and muskie.

Marvin Cash
00:00:16

And Austin even shares the legend of Skippy Britches.

Marvin Cash
00:00:19

I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.

Marvin Cash
00:00:26

If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcaster of your choice.

Marvin Cash
00:00:33

It really helps us out and a shout out to our sponsor.

Marvin Cash
00:00:37

Trout Routes.

Marvin Cash
00:00:38

It's a fact none of us get to fish as much as we want.

Marvin Cash
00:00:41

Almost overnight, planning a fishing trip went from a gazetteer and word of mouth to the entire Internet.

Marvin Cash
00:00:46

There have never been more resources available for fishing, but it's a challenge trying to wade through the digital noise to find the most current and relevant information.

Marvin Cash
00:00:54

Spend less time surfing the Internet and more time on the water with trout routes.

Marvin Cash
00:00:58

With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you make the most of your time on the water.

Marvin Cash
00:01:08

Where I fish in southern Appalachia, figuring out how to get off the water can be as important as finding it in the first place.

Marvin Cash
00:01:14

With trout routes, I can mark the best spots to get out of the water so I don't find myself in a valley I can't climb out of.

Marvin Cash
00:01:19

And as the sun goes down up your game and download the app Today, use code ArtFly20 ArtFly20 all one word for 20% off your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com now onto our interview.

Marvin Cash
00:01:38

Well, Austin, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Austin Conrad
00:01:42

Thanks Marlon, appreciate you having me.

Austin Conrad
00:01:44

Thrilled to be here.

Marvin Cash
00:01:45

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Marvin Cash
00:01:47

And we have a tradition on the Articulate Fly.

Marvin Cash
00:01:49

We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Austin Conrad
00:01:54

I thought about this one because I know you asked everybody and I can't decide if it was whether I was fishing with my grandfather and my little brother on a lake like a Pay to Play lake and southern West Virginia called Plum Orchard Lake.

Austin Conrad
00:02:15

And I can't remember if it was that one.

Austin Conrad
00:02:18

And him being frustrated all day untangling and us, you know, snagging up on trees behind us, or if it was, you know, another early one with him and his buddy Joey.

Austin Conrad
00:02:36

They had a fish camp on the Greenbrier river and we would go there and fish all the time.

Austin Conrad
00:02:43

And we did like Kind of like an old school john boat float with a trolling motor and a prop outboard.

Austin Conrad
00:02:53

And by the end of the day, the only thing that worked was the trolling motor.

Austin Conrad
00:02:58

So going down some, some, you know, interesting water, pretty much not under power most of the time.

Austin Conrad
00:03:07

So that was a fun one.

Austin Conrad
00:03:08

Made for a long day, taking off in the dark, hitting a bunch of stuff.

Austin Conrad
00:03:11

But catching smallmouth bass, I would say those are the two.

Austin Conrad
00:03:15

I couldn't figure out which one was earlier.

Austin Conrad
00:03:17

I even made a call to try to figure out which one was and.

Austin Conrad
00:03:22

But yeah, I mean, you know, growing up fishing in southern West Virginia for, for bass and trout and stuff and got a pretty early start.

Austin Conrad
00:03:31

So I was, I was fortunate in that way.

Austin Conrad
00:03:33

It helped foster my love for fishing in the outdoors.

Marvin Cash
00:03:37

Very, very neat.

Marvin Cash
00:03:38

So when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

Austin Conrad
00:03:42

So that actually was not until I was an adult.

Austin Conrad
00:03:46

So I.

Austin Conrad
00:03:47

On the other side of my family, I had a, you know, an uncle Joe.

Austin Conrad
00:03:52

He wasn't actually an uncle, but a good close friend, him and his wife Sandy with my mom's parents.

Austin Conrad
00:04:00

And Joe Lewis was probably one of the only guys fishing in also the Greenbrier and the Lower New river there in West Virginia on a fly rod.

Austin Conrad
00:04:12

And he would, he would wait around and, and fish for that.

Austin Conrad
00:04:15

And I'd watch him and he never let me fly fish because he said it was too complicated.

Austin Conrad
00:04:20

But, you know, I'd seen it, but I'd always been told by my grandfather that it was, you know, you did that for trout.

Austin Conrad
00:04:27

And so I went to college at Penn State and when I was like an adult, that's when I kind of started picking up the fly rod right before I went to school.

Austin Conrad
00:04:40

And then more seriously, when I got to school and worked for a shop up there called TCO Fly Shop and kind of got more and more serious.

Austin Conrad
00:04:50

And in my tenure there as an employee, very neat.

Marvin Cash
00:04:54

How did you not get drummed out of the core of your family if not for not being a mountaineer and you went to Penn State?

Austin Conrad
00:05:00

I know, yeah, it was, It's.

Austin Conrad
00:05:02

I was told that at least it wasn't Pitt or Virginia Tech.

Austin Conrad
00:05:06

So I knew that was, that was a tough one to.

Austin Conrad
00:05:09

To.

Austin Conrad
00:05:10

That was a tough call to, to my mom's father, who was a.

Austin Conrad
00:05:14

A mountaineer student two times over.

Austin Conrad
00:05:16

So that was a.

Austin Conrad
00:05:18

That was definitely an awkward moment.

Austin Conrad
00:05:20

But.

Austin Conrad
00:05:21

But yeah, I went to Penn State and it wanted to get out of the area.

Austin Conrad
00:05:24

That was the big thing.

Austin Conrad
00:05:25

My brother, you know, ended up going to WVU and so I kind of wanted to do my own thing.

Austin Conrad
00:05:30

And yeah, I'm glad I did.

Austin Conrad
00:05:32

Met some really great people and.

Austin Conrad
00:05:34

And got to fish some really pretty water that I probably.

Austin Conrad
00:05:37

I may have not otherwise, you know.

Marvin Cash
00:05:39

So, yeah, the, the fishing around State College, I mean, I've been up there a few times to, to fish with the guys in the shop and I mean, I think I could kind of be ruined.

Marvin Cash
00:05:49

I mean, there's so much good water that's so easy to get to.

Austin Conrad
00:05:54

Yeah, that was, that was kind of eye opening.

Austin Conrad
00:05:56

So in southern West Virginia, we had, we had a lot of good trout water.

Austin Conrad
00:06:01

Definitely did.

Austin Conrad
00:06:02

For sure.

Austin Conrad
00:06:03

Still do.

Austin Conrad
00:06:05

But when you get to a place like State College, you, like, realize, like, you're like, wow.

Austin Conrad
00:06:10

Like I, I didn't know what great trout fishing was.

Austin Conrad
00:06:13

I mean, it's.

Austin Conrad
00:06:14

You can't spit without hitting a trout stream.

Austin Conrad
00:06:17

And so that was kind of eye opening and it was great.

Austin Conrad
00:06:20

I mean, it was probably to the detriment of my grades because, you know, there every.

Austin Conrad
00:06:26

Every day you could go fish somewhere new and not hit the same water twice within a, you know, 150 mile radius.

Austin Conrad
00:06:33

So.

Marvin Cash
00:06:34

Yeah, that's even before you throw in bow hunting for deer.

Marvin Cash
00:06:37

Right?

Austin Conrad
00:06:39

Yeah, I didn't do too much of that up there.

Austin Conrad
00:06:41

I didn't do.

Austin Conrad
00:06:41

Actually, I didn't do any hunting while I was there.

Austin Conrad
00:06:44

Wish I had, but.

Austin Conrad
00:06:46

But it's.

Austin Conrad
00:06:47

But yeah, I mean, I had so much on my plate and just, just having the fishing, I, you know, I kind of had a wealth of riches with that, so it was nice.

Austin Conrad
00:06:55

But yeah, there is.

Austin Conrad
00:06:56

I mean, I always tell people, I mean, PA Central, PA in particular is kind of a outdoorsman's paradise.

Austin Conrad
00:07:04

You know, we're kind of very lucky in the mid Atlantic as a whole that we, you know, between angling opportunities and hunting opportunities, we've got some of the best in the country.

Marvin Cash
00:07:14

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Cash
00:07:15

And so, you know, Austin, tell me a few of the people that have kind of mentored you on your fly fishing journey and, you know, what did they teach you?

Austin Conrad
00:07:23

Yeah, so it, you know, I kind of like, I guess I would break that question down like a couple ways where it's, you know, I got my start working at TCO and, you know, worked for George Costa, who you had on the show for the reports and everything.

Austin Conrad
00:07:43

And George was kind of giving me a job up there, which was pretty much for.

Austin Conrad
00:07:50

I looked at it as it was a discount and beer money and helped me pay rent a little bit.

Austin Conrad
00:07:57

And it gave me a start and so, George, I was green as far as fly fishing went when I was up there, to be honest.

Austin Conrad
00:08:06

George, you know, kind of, whether he would say it or not, I would.

Austin Conrad
00:08:11

You know, I'm a big, big believer in, you know, kind of just shutting up and listening sometimes, and especially when people know more than you do.

Austin Conrad
00:08:19

So he may not tell you that.

Austin Conrad
00:08:22

He may squirm.

Austin Conrad
00:08:23

And there may be some other people that would squirm to call him a mentor.

Austin Conrad
00:08:26

But George.

Austin Conrad
00:08:27

George definitely was probably the earliest one.

Austin Conrad
00:08:29

And then other guys up there that I would just sit and listen to because they were just.

Austin Conrad
00:08:35

It just seemed to me like they were trout gurus, like, you know, Sam Galt, Shane Adams, things like that.

Austin Conrad
00:08:42

You know, I.

Austin Conrad
00:08:43

I don't think I would call them mentors, but I've been fortunate to know some really, really fishy people, I mean, in a short time in this industry.

Austin Conrad
00:08:52

And then as I, you know, got back to this area, Virginia, and in West Virginia, Josh Lafferty, who I work with, another guy that would probably squirm, but I would call him a mentor.

Austin Conrad
00:09:06

As far as, you know, he just.

Austin Conrad
00:09:08

He doesn't.

Austin Conrad
00:09:09

I don't think he cares the.

Austin Conrad
00:09:10

For that kind of notoriety or whatnot.

Austin Conrad
00:09:13

But.

Austin Conrad
00:09:13

But, yeah, Josh, I mean, he taught me everything I know about muskie fishing on the fly.

Austin Conrad
00:09:21

And then in recent years, you know, last couple years, getting to know Blaine, same thing.

Austin Conrad
00:09:28

I mean, it's just one of those guys you just.

Austin Conrad
00:09:30

You just kind of shut up and listen.

Austin Conrad
00:09:32

And there's always tidbits you can learn, you know, talking to, you know, whether it be somebody you consider a mentor or a friend and colleague, whatever.

Austin Conrad
00:09:42

And just like that, too, I mean, you know, like I said, I've been fortunate to be around some of the fishiest people, you know, I think, in this industry.

Austin Conrad
00:09:51

I mean, kid that works with us, Braden Miller, I learned, you know, just talking to him, he's such a nerd about.

Austin Conrad
00:09:59

About fishing that you just.

Austin Conrad
00:10:01

You pick up something all the time.

Austin Conrad
00:10:03

And he's so technical and so sound in everything he does.

Austin Conrad
00:10:06

And Brendan Roosh in PA Worked with him closely and good friend, and I mean, a great bass angler, guide, and know guys like Josh Trammel in Ohio and some of the Michigan boys, like, you know, I kind of just.

Austin Conrad
00:10:22

I just try to pick up what I can, whether it's something I would consider a mentor or not.

Austin Conrad
00:10:27

But, you know, it's.

Austin Conrad
00:10:29

I would say George Costa and Josh just giving me an opportunity in both of those places, you know, and then Jim Johnson in Alaska, you know, I worked up there for a few seasons, and even though that was totally different to what I do here now, Jim taught me a lot about professionalism and being a guide and, you know, getting up and getting after it every day.

Austin Conrad
00:10:54

I mean, he's like a.

Austin Conrad
00:10:56

He's an I don't take no for an answer type guy, you know, where it's like, you go out there and you get after it, you know, and.

Austin Conrad
00:11:03

And so Jim, you know, George and Josh, I would say, have been super important to me, and I can't thank those guys enough for.

Austin Conrad
00:11:11

For helping me along the way and really getting my start and push it along.

Austin Conrad
00:11:14

So.

Marvin Cash
00:11:15

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:11:16

Very neat.

Marvin Cash
00:11:16

So you're, you know, you're.

Marvin Cash
00:11:18

You're a kid at Penn State.

Marvin Cash
00:11:20

You're working for George, you know, and, you know, you were just kind of figuring out the fly fishing thing, you know, when did you get the guide bug?

Austin Conrad
00:11:28

Yeah, so it kind of happened as I was, like, leaving Penn State and, you know, and I left the shop and, you know, it was weird.

Austin Conrad
00:11:42

It actually kind of happened, like, the same time that.

Austin Conrad
00:11:46

That I got an offer to work on a fly fishing film tour.

Austin Conrad
00:11:49

And so in the midst of that, you know, I was helping a guy named Paul Nicoletti, good friend of mine, with the fly fishing film tour, and then coming back to Virginia to after school, and, you know, it's kind of light, you know, like, not doing a ton of dad work, not, you know, some trips here and there.

Austin Conrad
00:12:11

And.

Austin Conrad
00:12:12

And I just decided, you know, after school, I was like, didn't really know what I wanted to do or I thought I did, and just kind of ran with it.

Austin Conrad
00:12:22

And so, you know, I just kind of dove, you know, headfirst into the industry, so to say.

Austin Conrad
00:12:28

But between a film tour and just guiding as soon as I got back, and it just seemed like it just all happened really quickly because, you know, doing trips here and there was like, boom.

Austin Conrad
00:12:38

I got the job in Alaska, went and left, you know, did my first season in Alaska.

Austin Conrad
00:12:43

I got to spend a lot of time with Josh, and, you know, I told him that I had interest in being in that area and guiding for bass and.

Austin Conrad
00:12:53

And muskie.

Austin Conrad
00:12:54

And, you know, I was kind of nervous about that conversation.

Austin Conrad
00:12:57

And Josh was nothing but welcoming.

Austin Conrad
00:12:59

I mean, he was like, you know, hey, man, screw it.

Austin Conrad
00:13:01

Like, we'll just do it together, you know, and.

Austin Conrad
00:13:04

And was very fortunate with that, that, you know, I.

Austin Conrad
00:13:07

I was kind of nervous about the whole thing.

Austin Conrad
00:13:09

And, you know, he kind of.

Austin Conrad
00:13:11

He kind of squashed all that and gave me the confidence to Go full steam ahead.

Austin Conrad
00:13:15

So that's that.

Austin Conrad
00:13:16

It kind of happened really quickly, but right after school, I would say.

Marvin Cash
00:13:20

Interesting.

Marvin Cash
00:13:21

And so did you just kind of start, you know, guiding for yourself before it all came together or were you working with a shop or an outfitter?

Austin Conrad
00:13:28

Yeah, so it was like, just like I said, like a pretty small amount of trips and I was actually just doing trout in Virginia and this was a very short time before, you know, I kind of met Josh and we kind of started Virginia Trophy Guides.

Austin Conrad
00:13:45

But, but yeah, it was just doing some, some walking away trout trips and, and to be honest with you, kind of when I was doing it, I think that I love trout, I really do, but I wasn't really inspired to, to guide for them long term and, and I knew I wanted to do something slightly different, but I didn't really want to leave the region.

Austin Conrad
00:14:06

I, you know, I've been all over the, the country.

Austin Conrad
00:14:10

I've gotten Alaska and you know, and, and I, I, I think people probably don't believe me when I say it, but, but I wouldn't rather be anywhere else than, you know, this area, western Virginia.

Austin Conrad
00:14:26

And obviously I'm partial to West Virginia too, but, but this, I love being in this, this region.

Austin Conrad
00:14:31

As far as fishing, I don't think you can beat it.

Austin Conrad
00:14:34

And the views as well.

Marvin Cash
00:14:36

Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty amazing thing.

Marvin Cash
00:14:38

I mean, if you kind of go from, you know, let's just say, you know, North Carolina kind of up to Maryland, I mean, the species diversity that you have and how quickly you can kind of change things up, you know, there really, they're just not a lot of other places in the country that kind of have that diversity of species to chase.

Austin Conrad
00:14:59

Yeah, no, I agree.

Austin Conrad
00:15:00

I, I mean, I grew up fishing for bass and, and, and particularly on the New river and the Greenbrier and, but within reach you've got trout.

Austin Conrad
00:15:11

And then once you get to Virginia here, it's, you know, you can go to the coast and I mean, the Chesapeake Bay is probably one of the best saltwater fisheries in the world.

Austin Conrad
00:15:20

Right.

Austin Conrad
00:15:20

So I mean, there's so many opportunities from, you know, in a five hour drive.

Austin Conrad
00:15:27

I think, you know, as I always hype up Pennsylvania and West Virginia and I try to drive people to those places and just to see them, you know, I think everybody should and go fish them.

Austin Conrad
00:15:37

And I feel the same way about here in western Virginia and, and I feel the same way about the Chesapeake.

Austin Conrad
00:15:43

Even though, you know, I don't work out there.

Austin Conrad
00:15:45

I haven't done a ton of serious fishing out there.

Austin Conrad
00:15:48

But.

Austin Conrad
00:15:49

But, you know, I think it's their Virginia is unique in that way where you can drive five hours to the mountains, fish for brook trout, wild browns, wild rainbows, smallmouth, muskie, catfish, whatever you want, and then you can get out to the coast and fish for some of the best bull, drum, cobia and so on.

Austin Conrad
00:16:08

So I think that's a really unique and special thing.

Marvin Cash
00:16:12

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Cash
00:16:13

And I know you mentioned a bunch of folks already, but are there any other folks that have, you know, mentored you on your guide journey that you want to mention and, you know, let folks know kind of what they.

Marvin Cash
00:16:21

They taught you?

Austin Conrad
00:16:24

Yeah, I mean, I just, like I said, I mean, if I was to break it down into those kind of those three fixtures and in that journey, I've been really fortunate to.

Austin Conrad
00:16:35

You know, maybe it was time and place and.

Austin Conrad
00:16:38

Right time, right place, but, you know, going from working in PA and being surrounded by those guys up there, I mean, there was plenty of guys up there I didn't even get a chance to mention or mention, you know, Brian Wolfkill and another close friend of mine, Elliot hall, who is, yeah, sneakily, one of the most fishy people I know.

Austin Conrad
00:16:57

I mean, it.

Austin Conrad
00:16:57

I've thrown him in smallmouth and, and musky scenarios where, you know, he didn't grow up fishing for that kind of stuff.

Austin Conrad
00:17:03

And he's just.

Austin Conrad
00:17:05

We've.

Austin Conrad
00:17:05

We've taken him fishing for brown trout on tail waters and had the best day I've ever seen on a Virginia tailwater with him.

Austin Conrad
00:17:13

You know, some people, like I said, I mean, you know, I think some people like Josh would shudder to hear.

Austin Conrad
00:17:20

They mentioned to call him a mentor just because he doesn't care about it.

Austin Conrad
00:17:23

But I, like I said, I try to.

Austin Conrad
00:17:26

All the friends I surround myself with, I try to, you know, learn something from them because you can, you know, and there's things that, you know, I call, I talk to Brendan all the time or, you know, and there's things that are happening on his rivers that, That I can apply to my own, you know, even though they can be different.

Austin Conrad
00:17:45

And I think they're really, like I said, you know, going from George to, you know, working for Jim and working with Josh, I mean, I've been really fortunate and then getting to know Blaine.

Austin Conrad
00:17:55

But like I said, I mean, that's, you know, we.

Austin Conrad
00:17:59

We shoot the, we shoot the breeze and, and on.

Austin Conrad
00:18:03

Just chat a lot too.

Austin Conrad
00:18:04

But I try to drive him crazy and pick his brain all the time, you know, get off rivers that he's guided for 30 years after a day and, you know, whether I had a good day or tough day and just run through it with him and see if there was something I could have done better, you know, and I'm, I'm a firm believer in, in iron sharpens iron.

Austin Conrad
00:18:26

So just getting to know guys like that and, and learning from them, that's, that's a big thing for me, you know.

Marvin Cash
00:18:35

Yeah, it's super neat.

Marvin Cash
00:18:36

And you know, I have a couple questions I always like to ask guides and one of them, Austin, is, you know, to get your thoughts on what you think the secret is to being a good fishing guide.

Austin Conrad
00:18:48

Oh, I, so I also have a, a background from when I was in college and a little bit beyond in, in bartending and so the service industry.

Austin Conrad
00:18:59

And so at the end of the day, you know, as hard as we fish and you know, despite the fact that we may be after a certain type of fish or certain type of way, it's still the service industry.

Austin Conrad
00:19:10

And you know, we aim.

Austin Conrad
00:19:14

You know, when Josh brought me on, I mean, it was all about showing people a good time, right?

Austin Conrad
00:19:18

I mean, there's certain conditional factors where gays are not going to be as good as you had hoped and being able to fill the gaps and, you know, show people a good time regardless of conditions, I think that's, that's huge, you know, and given somebody an opportunity to share a boat with somebody that they, that they enjoy it, you know, because, I mean, I think it was that what Pallet said, you know, a boat can feel a fill is, you know, big or small as you want it to, you know, and I'm sure there's, there's experiences where people, I've had fishing experiences with people where, you know, not guiding or not paying for a guided trip, but being on a boat with somebody and that boat feels really small, you know, and, and so trying to be a well rounded person and you know, and, and provide a good experience in that way beyond just the fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:20:20

Because I mean, there's certain things we can control in fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:20:23

There's certain things we absolutely can't.

Austin Conrad
00:20:26

And so if people can learn and leave with something that they didn't know before the start of the day, that's big for me.

Austin Conrad
00:20:34

You know, obviously personal best or first smallmouth or first mosquito, those things are all great.

Austin Conrad
00:20:40

But if somebody left and they're driving home and they're like, wow, you know, it like clicked with me when, you know, Austin said, you know, slow this down or you're dropping the shoulder or whatever that they can be like, oh, just quick, you know, and now I can take that to Louisiana or I can take that to, you know, the Bahamas or wherever with them and can make their fishing experience better, you know, over time.

Austin Conrad
00:21:08

That's, that's a win for me.

Austin Conrad
00:21:10

So.

Marvin Cash
00:21:11

Yeah, it's interesting too, because I always tell people, you know, kind of having been around the sport for a fair amount of time, you know, kind of, as I would say, on the other end of the rod to, you know, encour, encourage people to be really honest with their guides about what they want to accomplish during a day and, you know, not make you be a mind reader in an awesome fishing guide.

Austin Conrad
00:21:34

Yeah, for sure.

Austin Conrad
00:21:35

And I definitely encourage that too.

Austin Conrad
00:21:38

And I kind of have that awkward, there's sometimes awkward conversation at the beginning of the day where it's like, what are you looking to gain out of this trip?

Austin Conrad
00:21:46

And a lot of times it's even before we get on the boat.

Austin Conrad
00:21:49

And we're very fortunate to have a lot of serious anglers, whether it be in the smallmouth or mosquito pursuit, people that have experience.

Austin Conrad
00:22:00

But we certainly, especially with smallmouth, get a lot of brand new anglers and, you know, their goal may not be the same.

Austin Conrad
00:22:09

As a guy that I spent, you know, two days with in April chasing, you know, his personal best smallmouth, you know, their goals may not be the same.

Austin Conrad
00:22:20

And so being able to read a room and understand people's expectations and then helping them achieve those expectations and those goals.

Austin Conrad
00:22:29

So that's a big part of guiding, you know, it's not just big fish and, you know, telling people where to cast and running down the river, it's providing a well rounded experience for somebody, um, and then being able to adapt to what the, their needs are.

Austin Conrad
00:22:46

So definitely, you know, we, we get that kind of greener side and you know, that's, that's a completely different day sometimes.

Austin Conrad
00:22:54

And sometimes it works out that they end up catching, you know, great bass or tons of bass.

Austin Conrad
00:23:00

And some days it's like, you know, they're brand new and learning and they're grinding it out for a dozen, you know, 15 fish.

Austin Conrad
00:23:07

And to them, you know, I, I sometimes I struggle to remember, you know, that I, I'll get off the water and, and talk to Josh or talk to Abby and on the way home and I'm like, that's a little tougher than I thought.

Austin Conrad
00:23:20

And you know, it's, I, especially Abby, she's, she's always like, well, look, I mean, how many, how many bass is that?

Austin Conrad
00:23:28

Those Those folks caught before, and I'm like, well, they said they've gone out a few times and never caught anything.

Austin Conrad
00:23:34

Like, she's like, well, you just said that they.

Austin Conrad
00:23:37

They caught more bass than they ever have, and they caught the biggest bass they ever have.

Austin Conrad
00:23:41

And so it's.

Austin Conrad
00:23:43

It's all about perspective and providing, you know, that kind of realistic experience for people.

Marvin Cash
00:23:50

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:23:50

It's funny because I always tell people that, you know, you can't control the catching.

Marvin Cash
00:23:55

Right.

Marvin Cash
00:23:55

So, you know, all you can really, you know, hope for at the end of the day is that everything that was humanly possible to put you on fish was done.

Marvin Cash
00:24:03

Right.

Austin Conrad
00:24:05

Absolutely.

Austin Conrad
00:24:06

And, I mean, that's like, you know, when.

Austin Conrad
00:24:08

When Josh kind of brought me on and when we brought Braden on, it was.

Austin Conrad
00:24:13

It's all been the same conversation, which is like, we fish hard, you know, we don't fish by the clock, and we go out.

Austin Conrad
00:24:22

And at the very least, all he expected and all I expect is that, you know, we.

Austin Conrad
00:24:30

We fish, you know, guide hard all day and give it everything you have.

Austin Conrad
00:24:36

I know it sounds cliche, but as long as you're doing everything you can on.

Austin Conrad
00:24:41

On your end, there are some things, like I said, you can't control.

Austin Conrad
00:24:44

But.

Austin Conrad
00:24:45

But for the most part, if we're working hard and they're working hard, good things happen.

Austin Conrad
00:24:50

I mean, I'm.

Austin Conrad
00:24:51

I'm a firm believer in a good attitude and good river karma, too.

Austin Conrad
00:24:55

So.

Marvin Cash
00:24:56

Yeah, you got a grind to shine, right?

Austin Conrad
00:24:59

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:24:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Cash
00:25:00

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:25:01

And another question I always have to ask guides is to share their biggest misconception that they think folks have about the life of a fishing guide.

Austin Conrad
00:25:11

Oh, where.

Austin Conrad
00:25:13

Where to begin?

Austin Conrad
00:25:17

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:25:18

I would say the biggest misconception is that it's that.

Austin Conrad
00:25:23

That you're fishing every day and, you know, that it's a glamorous lifestyle.

Austin Conrad
00:25:29

You know, it's like that it's easy, and then it's.

Austin Conrad
00:25:32

It's glamorous.

Austin Conrad
00:25:32

And that's something that.

Austin Conrad
00:25:35

Two things that it's.

Austin Conrad
00:25:36

It's definitely not.

Austin Conrad
00:25:38

You know, our days often start.

Austin Conrad
00:25:41

You know, I can just speak to myself, but, you know, my days often start at, you know, 4:35am and, you know, I'm not going to bed until sometimes midnight or beyond.

Austin Conrad
00:25:52

And it's just constant work, and sometimes you're struggling to find, you know, you've got something that went wrong with your truck, and you're on a skid of guide days, and you can't just drop it and fix your truck, you know, or you're working on your Truck at midnight.

Austin Conrad
00:26:07

I've also done that.

Austin Conrad
00:26:10

And you know, that it's, that everything's just kind of peachy, you know, it's, I love it.

Austin Conrad
00:26:16

I wouldn't do anything else.

Austin Conrad
00:26:18

I truly mean that.

Austin Conrad
00:26:20

But it's, it's definitely a, it's a, it's a, it's a tougher lifestyle than, and career choice and people give credit for, you know, you're, you're away from home a lot, whether you're working right down the street or, you know, you're working seasons in Alaska or Patagonia, New Zealand, whatever, you know, and it's, it's tough on your schedule with loved ones and family and you gotta have supportive people around you, that's for sure.

Austin Conrad
00:26:48

Because it is a, it's a demanding, demanding job.

Austin Conrad
00:26:51

And, and it's, it can be inconsistent.

Austin Conrad
00:26:54

You know, I don't care what, what anybody says.

Austin Conrad
00:26:56

I mean, there's times, you know, I, I lost a lot of business in October because of Helene, you know, and you.

Austin Conrad
00:27:05

That can be a tough thing to swallow.

Austin Conrad
00:27:07

I mean, luckily had a large majority of those people reschedule.

Austin Conrad
00:27:11

But when you're counting on that money and everything can be seasonal, luckily we have a year round fishery.

Austin Conrad
00:27:18

But when you're counting on that money, and I know there's guys who had it a lot harder than me, I'm not, not saying that, you know, by any means, but, you know, because all I did was lose some business.

Austin Conrad
00:27:30

But, but yeah, it's just, it's, it's one of those things where I think, people think that, you know, you just start guiding and it's like, boom.

Austin Conrad
00:27:38

Oh, you know, your schedule's filled, you know, you know, people just, they're.

Austin Conrad
00:27:43

Your phone's ringing off the hook.

Austin Conrad
00:27:45

It just, it definitely takes a lot of hard work.

Austin Conrad
00:27:48

It's a lot of hours in a day and it's a lot of time, you know, away sometimes from people, you know, loved ones and family, so.

Austin Conrad
00:27:55

And friends.

Austin Conrad
00:27:57

I would say that's the biggest misconception.

Marvin Cash
00:28:00

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:28:00

And I think too that a lot of people don't really kind of appreciate that kind of pre work and post work every day.

Marvin Cash
00:28:05

And then also too, like, you know, I talked to Blaine about it and it's like, you know, just the grinder in muskie season.

Marvin Cash
00:28:11

It's cold right?

Marvin Cash
00:28:12

Every morning.

Austin Conrad
00:28:13

Oh God.

Marvin Cash
00:28:14

Right, yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:28:15

And I mean, you know, and when that sun drops behind the mountains in the afternoon, it gets chilly, right?

Marvin Cash
00:28:20

And you get off and you've been cold all day and you start doing that, you know, if you're fishing with Blaine, maybe you fish with him one day, two days, maybe three days, but he's doing that like 14 days in a row.

Marvin Cash
00:28:30

20 days in a row, right?

Austin Conrad
00:28:33

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:28:33

You know, or you flip it around like, you know, top water fishing for smallmouth, you know, it's not cool in, in Virginia, in August, in July.

Marvin Cash
00:28:44

Yeah, right.

Marvin Cash
00:28:45

And so, you know, as I always say, you know, the fish are in the shade and you're not.

Austin Conrad
00:28:49

Yeah, it's exactly what you said.

Austin Conrad
00:28:51

I mean, we, we've got a year round fishery, but we have polar like extremes and weather.

Austin Conrad
00:28:58

I don't think people consider how cold musky days can be.

Austin Conrad
00:29:03

And you know, granted, there's probably some guys in Michigan that would laugh at that, but, you know, because we don't have it that cold.

Austin Conrad
00:29:12

But, but yeah, it's, it's definitely what you said.

Austin Conrad
00:29:17

And I, I think we feel it the most during muskie season, you know, because you've done it before, you've musky fish with brain and it's a, it can be a grind.

Austin Conrad
00:29:25

And when you're doing it almost every day for, you know, from December through the end of February, by the end of it, sometimes I'm like, I'm begging for pre spawn bass days because those days, they feel short, they feel cold.

Austin Conrad
00:29:43

You're working hard, you know, clients are working hard, and it's still the same thing.

Austin Conrad
00:29:50

You know, you're getting home later, you know, not quite as late as you do with summer day or spring bass day, but we're getting home late.

Austin Conrad
00:29:59

And then you've got a lot to do, you know, to get prepared for the next day, whether it's the same clients or different set of clients.

Austin Conrad
00:30:05

So, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely a grind, but, but I, I do love it.

Austin Conrad
00:30:10

I think I thrive in those kind of scenarios.

Austin Conrad
00:30:13

Like that kind of controlled chaos is where I do my best work.

Austin Conrad
00:30:17

So.

Marvin Cash
00:30:19

Yeah, well, there you go.

Marvin Cash
00:30:20

Well, you know, I want to get a little bit more detail on kind of, you know, the background story, you know, the creation story for Virginia trophy guides.

Marvin Cash
00:30:28

Tell us a little bit.

Marvin Cash
00:30:29

You know, I'm imagine you and Josh were like in a bar somewhere and you're like, hey, let's start a guide company.

Marvin Cash
00:30:33

Tell us that story.

Austin Conrad
00:30:36

Well, we weren't, we weren't in a bar yet, but, but, but, but, yeah, so we were definitely probably drinking a beer, I would imagine, or cocktail on, on his end.

Austin Conrad
00:30:48

But, but yeah, so I, you know, like I said, I worked for Knackneck River Camp in Bristol Bay, Alaska.

Austin Conrad
00:30:56

And the first season I was up there was kind of like, you know, getting to know Josh and, you know, we got along well right from the jump.

Austin Conrad
00:31:04

Very similar in a lot of ways and very different in a lot of ways.

Austin Conrad
00:31:07

And I think we mesh well that.

Austin Conrad
00:31:10

That way.

Austin Conrad
00:31:10

And, you know, it's kind of like, like I said, it was that awkward moment where I've never wanted to step on anybody's toes.

Austin Conrad
00:31:18

And I knew who he was and I was familiar with, you know, he had had other companies or outfits rather, prior to Virginia trophy guides.

Austin Conrad
00:31:27

I mean, he's, you know, other than Blaine.

Austin Conrad
00:31:29

I mean, he's the longest standing, you know, fly fishing guide for muskie on those two rivers that's.

Austin Conrad
00:31:38

That's still in operation.

Austin Conrad
00:31:40

And so, you know, I was familiar with him growing up in the, in the area and just, I don't know, you know, liking.

Austin Conrad
00:31:48

Liking the fish for smallmouth and musky and whatnot.

Austin Conrad
00:31:51

And so I kind of had that awkward conversation with him where I was like, hey, man, you know, like, we're moving out that way, you know, and, you know, I kind of like to guide that water, you know, after some time and kind of dial in that program in.

Austin Conrad
00:32:04

And he was a lot more welcoming, you know, or, you know, you always expect the worst when you have conversations like that.

Austin Conrad
00:32:11

Right?

Austin Conrad
00:32:11

You know, and so he, he was like, that's when he said, you know, screw it.

Austin Conrad
00:32:17

Let's just.

Austin Conrad
00:32:18

We'll just, we'll just guide together, you know, just come work with me.

Austin Conrad
00:32:23

And he was already guiding muskie and some spring bass, you know, and then doing his Alaska season.

Austin Conrad
00:32:29

The only thing he hadn't done in.

Austin Conrad
00:32:31

In a pretty long while was the summer bass.

Austin Conrad
00:32:34

He had kind of, um, quit doing it in exchange for going up to Alaska.

Austin Conrad
00:32:38

I mean, I think he's on his, like, 10th season up there.

Austin Conrad
00:32:41

So he hadn't guided summer bass for about 10 years, but had a, you know, long stretch.

Austin Conrad
00:32:47

Same, you know, couple decades worth of muskie and spring basketing.

Austin Conrad
00:32:52

And so it was.

Austin Conrad
00:32:53

It was easy to jump in there with him.

Austin Conrad
00:32:55

And I'm sure we, you know, cheers the beer and a cocktail and that was it.

Austin Conrad
00:33:00

And, you know, he was super good to me from the jump.

Austin Conrad
00:33:03

You know, he was like, look, I don't, I don't want to be anybody's boss, you know, because this, this is an equal partnership, you know, so I'm thankful for that, you know, because he's just.

Austin Conrad
00:33:17

He's a very selfless guy to work with, that's for sure.

Marvin Cash
00:33:22

Yeah, got it.

Marvin Cash
00:33:23

And so we've got Virginia trophy guides guiding musky, Guiding small mouth.

Marvin Cash
00:33:27

Are you doing other species or, you know, doing trout or is it predominantly smallmouth and musky?

Austin Conrad
00:33:33

Yeah, so he, he had always done smallmouth or, sorry, always done trout on a couple of the tail waters.

Austin Conrad
00:33:42

We kind of got away from that in the last couple years.

Austin Conrad
00:33:48

We, I mean, on occasion we'll go down there and like in an emergency type scenario where, you know, somebody's in town, you know, they don't want to reschedule, they can't reschedule, things like that.

Austin Conrad
00:34:01

And we will go do some tailwater trout work, but it's, it's not something we advertise anymore.

Austin Conrad
00:34:06

We're primarily fishing smallmouth bass and muskie on a few watersheds that are, that are kind of in a good radius of Roanoke, Virginia, where the company is.

Marvin Cash
00:34:18

Based out of Gotcha.

Marvin Cash
00:34:20

So that means you're probably what, you know, trout pinch is your fish in the Jackson and then smallmouth probably what, like the New river, the James.

Marvin Cash
00:34:29

Right.

Austin Conrad
00:34:30

Yeah, yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:34:31

So for, for trout it was, it was the Jackson and the Smith, which again, both of which are, that's the nice thing about Roanoke is within, you know, a good radius of, of Roanoke.

Austin Conrad
00:34:46

There's tons of great fishing opportunities.

Austin Conrad
00:34:49

So it really wasn't that bad to get to the Jackson or even the Smith.

Austin Conrad
00:34:54

I mean, the Smith is, is a lot closer than people give it credit for.

Austin Conrad
00:34:58

So.

Austin Conrad
00:34:58

And the Smith is a great tailwater trout fisher.

Austin Conrad
00:35:01

And so we did some of that.

Austin Conrad
00:35:03

And like I said, we still, we still will.

Austin Conrad
00:35:06

It's very rare.

Austin Conrad
00:35:08

And then smallmouth is on the New river and on the James we fish both a little bit of the Upper New and then primarily the Lower New or what Virginians know is the lower New from Radford to about the West Virginia line and then muskie, same thing.

Austin Conrad
00:35:26

Upper James from its headwaters to, you know, about Balcony Falls for both smallmouth and muskie and then muskie on the New river as well.

Marvin Cash
00:35:40

Got it.

Marvin Cash
00:35:40

And you know, as you've mentioned to folks, you've got a year round fishery.

Marvin Cash
00:35:43

So why don't we kind of walk through kind of what the guide season looks like.

Marvin Cash
00:35:46

We'll just start like, why don't we start, you know, end of October, beginning of November and we'll just go all the way around the calendar and you can kind of tell us like, you know, what you're looking for or what the opportunities are for the angler.

Austin Conrad
00:35:59

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:35:59

So this time of year, you know that, that late fall Getting into November, it's really transitional for us and you know, we're, we're shifting hard from, from smallmouth bass fishing to, to muskie fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:36:17

And you know, it's kind of your, your last days of smallmouth fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:36:23

So, you know, those bigger fish are, are putting the feedback on.

Austin Conrad
00:36:28

The minnow bite is good.

Austin Conrad
00:36:30

Bait fish bites good.

Austin Conrad
00:36:32

So fishing streamers, you know, when it's low and clear like this and cooling, you know, well, we're, you know, I, I've got two extremes right now.

Austin Conrad
00:36:41

So the James is low and clear, knee high on a duck.

Austin Conrad
00:36:45

And you know, the new is very off color still from Helene because of the dam fed factor.

Austin Conrad
00:36:54

So you've still got some green water over there.

Austin Conrad
00:36:56

It's, it's, it's straining in, in a good direction, but it can make for good late season smallmouth fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:37:03

Low and clear.

Austin Conrad
00:37:05

It can be tough with, with rapidly cooling water.

Austin Conrad
00:37:08

Um, even when they're trying to put the feedback on, they're real spooky, you know, really lethargic mornings.

Austin Conrad
00:37:15

And you know, your best bite is lunchtime to, you know, 3, 4pm, 5pm and then it gets cool in the evenings and they kind of, they can shut off again.

Austin Conrad
00:37:25

So we don't, I mean the, we don't do a ton of late, late fall smallmouth.

Austin Conrad
00:37:33

You know, I kind of comfortably book out, you know, all the way through, I would say second week of October under normal circumstances.

Austin Conrad
00:37:42

And then if the conditions are good, you know, we've got a, a good set of clients that we just reach out to, you know, say third week, fourth week of October, we got green water and the fishing's good.

Austin Conrad
00:37:54

You know, hey, you know, if you want to get out, you know, one of us has got Tuesday or Thursday.

Austin Conrad
00:38:00

So that's kind of how we fill in that, those kind of last days of small mouth.

Austin Conrad
00:38:05

And then right about October 1st to like that second week of October, the temps will be good for, for muskie fishing after, you know, really hot, arduous summer for them.

Austin Conrad
00:38:18

And that's when we start doing a lot of our fall muskie fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:38:23

It's actually a great time of year for the fly rod.

Austin Conrad
00:38:26

It's where we shine and you know, you're dealing with low, clear water typically.

Austin Conrad
00:38:32

And you know, the, that's where that kind of subtle fly, you know, fly entry to the water, less noise in a fly than say, like gear.

Austin Conrad
00:38:43

And when they're super spooky in the fall, which they can be, you know, especially as you get into November and they've Been targeted now for a month with these, you know, normal temperatures or safe temperatures to fish them.

Austin Conrad
00:38:57

Didn't get spooky.

Austin Conrad
00:38:58

I mean, it's just being out, you know, the other day, you know, you're.

Austin Conrad
00:39:03

You're moving 10 to 15 fish in a day, and, you know, you're.

Austin Conrad
00:39:08

You're hoping for one to eat away from the boat, and so you're maybe having three eats, you know, one of them stays on.

Austin Conrad
00:39:16

And that's, you know, those are.

Austin Conrad
00:39:18

Those are good expectations because if they make it to the boat in this low, clear water, they're probably going to be looking at you, and you're going to be looking at them.

Austin Conrad
00:39:28

And it's.

Austin Conrad
00:39:29

I mean, it's just that awkward moment to watch them turn and swim off because, I mean, you can.

Austin Conrad
00:39:35

We always joke, you can, you can read a magazine at the bottom of a hole in the river when it's like this.

Marvin Cash
00:39:42

Yeah, it's interesting you say that because even in, like, downtown Lynchburg, there used to be a lot of heavy industry there when I was a kid.

Marvin Cash
00:39:48

And I mean, the water's so clear at the dam down there, it kind of blows you away.

Austin Conrad
00:39:53

Yeah, yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:39:54

So, I mean, it, you know, it's nice that we don't.

Austin Conrad
00:39:57

We don't deal with that.

Austin Conrad
00:39:58

I don't spend a lot of time down there, but I've.

Austin Conrad
00:40:00

Not the first time I've heard it.

Austin Conrad
00:40:01

It's nice that we don't deal with as much of those factors particularly on the James anymore.

Austin Conrad
00:40:08

And obviously the Upper James has had its fair share of problems as well.

Austin Conrad
00:40:12

But, you know, coming out of the.

Austin Conrad
00:40:15

The Jackson and Cow Pasture watersheds.

Austin Conrad
00:40:17

But, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's par for the course.

Austin Conrad
00:40:22

This time of year is pretty much low and clear.

Austin Conrad
00:40:24

I mean, crystal clear, tap water clear.

Austin Conrad
00:40:27

And then as we get into, you know, December, if you want me to keep moving on, if we get into that, that winter time frame, typically what you see is like, October and November can be like, low precipitation.

Austin Conrad
00:40:41

Particularly October can be low precipitation months in Appalachia.

Austin Conrad
00:40:46

And so once you get into that November and December, that's when we start getting some of those winter, you know, rains and sometimes snow and, you know, you'll start to get higher water flows and you'll get that green of the water.

Austin Conrad
00:41:01

And that's kind of like the stuff that we love in the winter.

Austin Conrad
00:41:05

You know, it makes some of those, you know, you're obviously fishing bigger fly patterns.

Austin Conrad
00:41:10

You know, I didn't really touch on it too much, but in the fall, you know, whether it's, it's smallmouth, you're using small streamers, sometimes going to the bottom and with muskie, I mean, this time of year is great for people who've always wanted to try muskie fishing because your number, you do see a lot more fish.

Austin Conrad
00:41:27

And then, you know, we're using 7 inch flies versus 12 inch flies.

Austin Conrad
00:41:33

You know, it's low and clear.

Austin Conrad
00:41:34

We're using light on flash.

Austin Conrad
00:41:35

A lot of times we're using 10 weights with intermediates rather than 12 weights and full sinking lines.

Austin Conrad
00:41:40

So this time of year, going back to it a little bit can be great if you've ever wanted to try, you know, muskie fishing on the fly.

Austin Conrad
00:41:48

And then as we get into, you know, your December, January, February, we're, we're not doing really any smallmouth fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:41:57

You know, as we get into late February, we'll, we'll start to pick it back up for sure.

Austin Conrad
00:42:01

Especially as we've had, you know, higher or warmer average winters in the last five, ten years.

Austin Conrad
00:42:10

But, but yeah, so we're not doing much smallmouth fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:42:14

It's.

Austin Conrad
00:42:14

Musky is 100% the focus for the most part.

Austin Conrad
00:42:17

And it's when you're getting your higher average flows, your greener water, they're eating bigger forage.

Austin Conrad
00:42:23

So that's like what people think of as your, you know, traditional 12 weight, full sinking line, grinding it out with big flies, heavy, you know, heavy tackle, heavy flies.

Austin Conrad
00:42:38

And that's kind of at times what can put people off from muskie fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:42:42

And, and Josh, you know, always stressed that, you know, talking to people is like, obviously musky is not a game for somebody who just bought a fly rod.

Austin Conrad
00:42:52

I, I, you know, I would never, you know, try to sell somebody a musky day that's, that's really green, you know, because they're not going to go out and have a good time and they're going to struggle.

Austin Conrad
00:43:03

And you know, I've seen people who are, who, who are, you know, on the newer end of, of anglers, had great days and catch a fish on the first cast or, you know, what, what have you, but it's not something that we would ever necessarily push.

Austin Conrad
00:43:19

But I think that, you know, Josh are the best.

Austin Conrad
00:43:21

Like if you, if you have a good, like if good set of fundamental, like in, in casting and line management and all these things, we can work with that.

Austin Conrad
00:43:33

And, and I think people get put off from muskie fishing more than they should.

Austin Conrad
00:43:38

And there's kind of a misconception that, you know, it's either you know, a, you know, like big bearded dudes game, you know, covered in tattoos or whatever.

Austin Conrad
00:43:49

And, and you know, you gotta be strong to cast these lines.

Austin Conrad
00:43:54

And, and I don't think that's the case.

Austin Conrad
00:43:56

Case or the Cassidy's rods.

Austin Conrad
00:43:57

I mean, I don't think that's the case whatsoever.

Austin Conrad
00:44:00

If you have that strong set of fundamentals.

Austin Conrad
00:44:02

I think anybody can, can musky fish and can be successful.

Austin Conrad
00:44:07

But that is, you know, your winter is when it is the most arduous for sure.

Austin Conrad
00:44:12

You know, 12 weights, 500 grain sinking lines, 12 inch flies, sometimes 10 inch flies.

Austin Conrad
00:44:18

And you know, obviously your, your numbers go down.

Austin Conrad
00:44:22

You're, you're targeting a lot of the larger fish in the system that time of year.

Austin Conrad
00:44:27

And whereas, you know, this week we may move 15 fish in a day, you know, in December, January, February, we may only move four, you know, or two or one or sometimes none.

Austin Conrad
00:44:40

I don't care what anybody tells you.

Austin Conrad
00:44:42

There are days where you go out on a fly rod fishing for muskie and you don't see him.

Austin Conrad
00:44:47

It just, it happens and you're basically taking a hard game and making it harder.

Austin Conrad
00:44:53

You know, they're, they're extremely sensitive lateral line feeders and we're trying to feed them bucktail and flash and feathers, you know, so we're, we're at a little bit of a disadvantage when you've got those normal winter flows.

Austin Conrad
00:45:07

And so we're kind of targeting, you know, those slow pools, you know, deep ledges, submerged timber, all those kind of things where, you know, they kind of have their winter haunts.

Austin Conrad
00:45:20

And as we kind of get into that late winter, February, early March, you know, that's when their smallmouth rods start to come out and we start doing a lot of early season pre spawn guiding for smallmouth.

Austin Conrad
00:45:36

And they were still musky fishing guiding typically up until about March 10th.

Austin Conrad
00:45:43

Muskie really won't spawn on an average year until third week, fourth week of March, unless we have an exceptionally warm winter, which we have been trending towards that every year.

Austin Conrad
00:45:57

But we mainly put the musky rods down in that early spring because the bass fishing gets hot.

Austin Conrad
00:46:04

And you know, that's your best time to catch as you know, your 20 plus inch bass, your 5 pound plus bass on, on a big swim fly.

Austin Conrad
00:46:16

And that's, I mean, honestly, I think all three of us, you know, as much as we love muskie and we do love that Grind, you know, March 15 through April 20 is, is probably my favorite 30 days, 35 days of the year because it's, it's just electric and it's the biggest fish in the system.

Austin Conrad
00:46:40

Eating the best way to fish for them, in my opinion.

Austin Conrad
00:46:44

Which I do love top water too, but, you know, I would.

Austin Conrad
00:46:47

I don't think there's anything quite like, you know, watching in that green water, watching a 20 plus inch smallmouth, you know, inhale a swim, fly, you know, a couple feet, few feet below the surface and you get to watch the whole thing.

Austin Conrad
00:47:02

And, and she's the fattest she'll be all year.

Austin Conrad
00:47:05

That's.

Austin Conrad
00:47:05

That's a pretty cool thing.

Marvin Cash
00:47:07

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:47:07

And then the fight, right?

Marvin Cash
00:47:09

Like, you know, oh God, you know, I mean, the smallmouth fight versus the muskie fight, like, there's a lot of stuff you have to do, right, to get a muskie to the boat, but they're not running around and you know, that's just not their M.O.

Marvin Cash
00:47:22

right?

Austin Conrad
00:47:25

No.

Austin Conrad
00:47:25

And, and actually we tell people a lot of times.

Austin Conrad
00:47:27

I was just talking to a client earlier today.

Austin Conrad
00:47:29

I, I think that pound for pound, your best fighting muskie is actually like a three foot muskie.

Austin Conrad
00:47:35

Those are the ones that do cartwheels.

Austin Conrad
00:47:38

They do go on longer runs and you see them kick that tail and they jolt and shoot further.

Austin Conrad
00:47:43

Whereas, you know, the picture muskie, which, you know, obviously everybody loves that you're 40 to 50 inch Muskie.

Marvin Cash
00:47:51

They're.

Austin Conrad
00:47:53

It's, it's, you know, it's.

Austin Conrad
00:47:55

Josh does the best.

Austin Conrad
00:47:56

It's.

Austin Conrad
00:47:56

It's like fighting a gorilla in a phone booth.

Austin Conrad
00:47:58

I mean, it's, it's chaotic.

Austin Conrad
00:48:01

They're throwing their body weight around.

Austin Conrad
00:48:03

It's a lot of head shaking.

Austin Conrad
00:48:04

But they're not going on huge runs.

Austin Conrad
00:48:06

Typically seasonally they will, you know, early fall in the spring, post spawn when they're jacked up and their metabolism's high.

Austin Conrad
00:48:14

But for the most part, it's a lot of head shaking.

Austin Conrad
00:48:16

There's a lot of opening their mouth and it's like the rod is bent, but it's all within a certain distance of the boat, you know, and you're still holding on and it's, it's a very chaotic moment and it's very likely for them to come off because they have really hard mouths.

Austin Conrad
00:48:32

And it's, you know, we tell people, you know, rod tip in the water and you're stripping and they come tight to them and strip again and strip again.

Austin Conrad
00:48:39

Don't even worry about bending a rod because a lot of times you'll get them in the net.

Austin Conrad
00:48:45

And as soon as that tension comes off that line and there's any slack that Fly just pops right out of their mouth.

Austin Conrad
00:48:52

And it makes you wonder, you know, whether they were just clamped or lightly hooked or they were, you know, or if it was hooked at all.

Austin Conrad
00:49:00

You know, how easy they come out.

Austin Conrad
00:49:02

So, you know, it is chaotic for sure, and it's fun.

Austin Conrad
00:49:06

But I tell people muskie is more about the, the bite than the fight.

Austin Conrad
00:49:11

And on the flip side, I think pound for pound, smallmouth bass are some of the, if not the best freshwater fighting fish.

Austin Conrad
00:49:22

You know, it's, it's their bulldogs, their little freight trains, you know, and they do cool stuff, whether it's jumping, you know, belly rolling, going in front of the boat, going on, you know, little runs.

Austin Conrad
00:49:34

They're not going on saltwater runs.

Austin Conrad
00:49:36

But you know, I've seen some really impressive fights on a smallmouth bass, as I'm sure you have too.

Austin Conrad
00:49:43

So they do cool stuff.

Austin Conrad
00:49:45

And I mean, for it to be an accessible fish.

Austin Conrad
00:49:47

I don't think there's a better fish in, in freshwater, especially where we are, you know, because you know, you're having higher number of days, no matter what, no matter what time of the year than you would muskie fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:50:00

And even on the worst day, you know, you're catching, you're catching bass and that's, that's, yeah, there's, there's something good about that.

Austin Conrad
00:50:08

So, I mean, it's, yeah, I think their fight is super underrated.

Austin Conrad
00:50:13

And I think as they grow and get some more popularity, you know, guys like Blaine and Mike Schultz have really.

Austin Conrad
00:50:20

And Tam at tight lines.

Austin Conrad
00:50:22

Like they've, they've kind of, you know, shown to everybody, you know, for a long time now.

Austin Conrad
00:50:29

It's been a lot of hard work.

Austin Conrad
00:50:30

But that small mouth bass really are badass.

Austin Conrad
00:50:34

I mean, they're, they're, they're cool fish and they're, they're kind of a perfect fly rod fish if you ask me, the subsurface.

Austin Conrad
00:50:44

They eat on the bottom and they eat on top, you know, all seasonally.

Austin Conrad
00:50:48

So I think that's pretty hard to beat.

Marvin Cash
00:50:51

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
00:50:51

And so you were saying, right.

Marvin Cash
00:50:52

So you kind of come out, you're, you get to kind of like, you know, mid to late April, right.

Marvin Cash
00:50:56

Then you got the spawn.

Marvin Cash
00:50:58

You know, why don't you take us through kind of, you know, post spawn smallmouth all the way to top water.

Marvin Cash
00:51:02

Kind of where we are today.

Austin Conrad
00:51:05

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
00:51:05

So again, like going back to the year round fishery, what's nice is by generally May 1 and, and a lot of times a little earlier, and sometimes they're stragglers into early May Your musky are done spawning.

Austin Conrad
00:51:21

So while the smallmouth are on beds, we leave them alone.

Austin Conrad
00:51:25

And what's nice about smallmouth and muskie and most fish is they don't.

Austin Conrad
00:51:30

There's not like a light switch and they just all spawn at once.

Austin Conrad
00:51:33

You know, you're typically spawning in stages.

Austin Conrad
00:51:36

So there in my opinion there's no reason to ever target smallmouth bass on beds.

Austin Conrad
00:51:42

Something I don't do and it's not something I would ever advocate anybody doing, you know.

Austin Conrad
00:51:49

And so you know, trout get a lot of, you know, they get a kind of the protection from the fly fishing base, you know, the don't fish over reds.

Austin Conrad
00:51:57

Like I'm a big proponent.

Austin Conrad
00:51:58

Same thing for smallmouth.

Austin Conrad
00:51:59

And what's nice places, there's different water types.

Austin Conrad
00:52:02

You're always going to find post spawn fish, you know, even as early as mid April.

Austin Conrad
00:52:07

Some of your biggest fish spawn earlier in April.

Austin Conrad
00:52:10

And then by mid April, third week of April, the latest, you'll have fish that are post spawn smallmouth.

Austin Conrad
00:52:17

So you can always target them in water that you know, isn't bed water, which it's really obvious when it is.

Austin Conrad
00:52:24

I mean somebody, somebody said that they didn't know that that fish was on a bed.

Austin Conrad
00:52:29

I think they'd be lying to you because you know, unless the water's super green, you know, which it can be that time of year, it certainly, I mean often is.

Austin Conrad
00:52:38

But there's certain water types you're targeting and, and we know as guides and most people that are out there all the time can differentiate, you know, bed water versus seam water, feeding water, you know, what have you.

Austin Conrad
00:52:50

But yeah, as you're getting into that spawn, you know, then that postpawn muskie is great.

Austin Conrad
00:52:58

Another time of year we tell people, you know, if you ever wanted to try muskie fishing, this is a good way to kind of dip your toes in, you know, because you're not out there freezing.

Austin Conrad
00:53:10

Your numbers typically go up and it's another time of year where they're eating heavily, you know, coming off that spawn.

Austin Conrad
00:53:17

And we're fishing smaller flies.

Austin Conrad
00:53:19

A lot of times we're fishing intermediate line.

Austin Conrad
00:53:22

They're really chasey, they're really bitey.

Austin Conrad
00:53:24

It's not uncommon to, you know, just like in the fall to go out in May and early June and move five to 10 to 15 fish, you know, on a fly and have some eats and have some to the net and, and whatnot.

Austin Conrad
00:53:42

And then you're not, you know, if you, if you ever thought like, well I don't know about the cold or the 12 inch flies, that's a great time of year for people.

Austin Conrad
00:53:49

Their metabolism, super high.

Austin Conrad
00:53:51

They're putting on the feedback before what they know is a long summer.

Austin Conrad
00:53:55

And you know, and then once you get into that May and, and stuff with, with the bass too, a lot of them are postponed.

Austin Conrad
00:54:03

They're still, you know, hang on, the year will be some spawning and that bite can be phenomenal as well.

Austin Conrad
00:54:11

And a lot of times it just goes right back to that bait fish bite.

Austin Conrad
00:54:14

We're incorporating a lot of top water, a lot of active top water that time of year.

Austin Conrad
00:54:20

So if people, you know, they're.

Austin Conrad
00:54:22

Once you get into the summer, you know, we're dealing with a lot more of those kind of subtle, you know, cork bug eats and whatnot.

Austin Conrad
00:54:30

This, that time of year, May and June can be great for the people who just can't help but pop a booba bard.

Austin Conrad
00:54:37

So like, you know, if you have any doubts that you could come out in August or September and not pop a bug as much, you know, May and June is kind of where you're going to shine because those are some really good bites on the booga bug, you know, popping them top water bait fish, subsurface bait fish.

Austin Conrad
00:54:54

Sometimes, you know, we're going to start scaling down a little bit from your 6, 7 inch, you know, smallmouth bass flies and going into that 4, 5 inch sometimes still using the bigger flies too.

Austin Conrad
00:55:08

But it's all about water conditions that time of year.

Austin Conrad
00:55:11

And that time of year can be electric.

Austin Conrad
00:55:14

If you get green water post spawn, if you got really full rivers and it's green and everything, that can be unreal small round fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:55:26

This spring was a good example of that where you post spawn.

Austin Conrad
00:55:31

We got green water, we got plenty of water and it's like the spawn didn't even happen.

Austin Conrad
00:55:35

You know, they got fat again after they spawned.

Austin Conrad
00:55:39

They were eating, you know, the same size flies and it was great.

Austin Conrad
00:55:43

Now going back to last year after spawn, it was low and clear immediately, not a ton of water.

Austin Conrad
00:55:50

And things are a little tougher.

Austin Conrad
00:55:52

You know, your post spawn bite can still be good that time of year, but they can vary based on those river conditions for sure.

Austin Conrad
00:56:00

And in that case, you know, last year we were using a lot more finesse, a lot less flash, you know, longer leaders, be more careful about tackle or your, you know, your, your leader going down a certain tip it.

Austin Conrad
00:56:14

Whereas this spring, I mean you could throw, you know, 16, 20 pound tip, bite tip and arm and you were catching nice bass, you know, throughout the day.

Austin Conrad
00:56:23

So and then, you know, once you get into that June 10, June 15, we typically shut down Moscow.

Austin Conrad
00:56:31

And you know, the common science or the, you know, the, the standard I guess is 80 degree water temps.

Austin Conrad
00:56:37

We don't even get close to it.

Austin Conrad
00:56:39

And what's nice too is having this year round fishery.

Austin Conrad
00:56:42

We don't even, we don't want to push it and there's no need to push it.

Austin Conrad
00:56:46

So despite the fact that the bite can be great all the way up until July 4th or some years, been beyond, not these last few summers, I'm sure, you know, we're extremely hot.

Austin Conrad
00:56:58

But you know, we, we normally shut it down right around that 75 or even less water, water temps.

Austin Conrad
00:57:06

And, and that's just our own personal choice.

Austin Conrad
00:57:10

You know, I would never advocate for fishing for muskie close to that 80 degrees or beyond 80 degrees particularly, and never targeting muskie, you know, in those dog days of summer when they're on refuge water, you know, right off the springs or creeks or what have you, you know, they're doing everything they can just to survive.

Austin Conrad
00:57:28

And I think especially as a guide service, we, we owe it to them to give them time, you know, while they're, they're dealing with those higher water temps to where we're not targeting them.

Austin Conrad
00:57:40

And I don't think anybody should be.

Austin Conrad
00:57:41

But you see it, it happens.

Austin Conrad
00:57:44

We try to, you know, spread the good word.

Austin Conrad
00:57:46

But you know, from June all the way through the summer, I mean there's little micro changes in the summer that we could go over.

Austin Conrad
00:57:54

You know, your June going into July, you know, you're getting off that bait fish bite where they were super heavy on that, you know, aggressive feeding like they did, it gets green post spawn.

Austin Conrad
00:58:06

But if you're going clear, you know, clear May and June and July, that's where some of those, you know, subtle presentations, finesse presentations can be more of a factor for sure and be more productive.

Austin Conrad
00:58:19

And then, you know, your July is a lot of your, your bug fishing and you're, we're doing some of the, you know, you're Mr.

Austin Conrad
00:58:27

Wiggly fishing on a six weight, which is a ton of fun.

Austin Conrad
00:58:30

And July can be, you know, great numbers.

Austin Conrad
00:58:33

You know, we're fishing small game changers, helgramites, you know, you know, the little hover mite changers, crawl changers, you know, throughout the day you're varying your approach and when the top water bites good, it's hard to get away from it.

Austin Conrad
00:58:51

I think you would probably agree most like anybody in the summer, I mean if they're going to eat top water all day.

Austin Conrad
00:58:57

You know, bug fishing, which is what's great about Virginia and it's kind of what we're known for is why would you step away from it.

Austin Conrad
00:59:06

But there are times as a guide and even as anglers we had to, you know, I'm sure you've seen it where you go out hoping to bug them all day and then the first few hours are not bugging and you're not bugging until about lunch.

Austin Conrad
00:59:21

And you know, everybody always, you hear a lot of people talk about how, you know that middle of the day is, is terrible for smallmouth fishing.

Austin Conrad
00:59:31

Right.

Austin Conrad
00:59:32

And I disagree.

Austin Conrad
00:59:34

I think some of the best top water fishing I have throughout the summer is you know, 11am on and then obviously as you get into your evening, the top water bites fantastic.

Austin Conrad
00:59:45

But you go from July into August and that's kind of your, your traditional cork bug.

Austin Conrad
00:59:54

I mean you can obviously target them on Google bugs too.

Austin Conrad
00:59:57

Those work without a doubt.

Austin Conrad
00:59:59

But in Virginia, you know, August and September kind of known as your cork bug time of year.

Austin Conrad
01:00:05

And you know, you're hunting those shade lines, those banks, I mean and I think people leave a lot of meat on the bones that both rivers that I guide, some of the best top water reeds are mid river midday even in August.

Austin Conrad
01:00:20

So there's just certain knowing your fishery is huge that way, but I'm sure you love it as much as I do.

Austin Conrad
01:00:28

But that August and September, you know, cork bug bite is, you know that in the pre spawn, you know, swim, fly bite their neck and neck.

Austin Conrad
01:00:39

For me, obviously the fish on his fat in August or September, but a lot of times we're still hunting those bigger fish on those top water bugs.

Austin Conrad
01:00:49

And it's pretty epic to watch them eat it because it shifts from a subtle eat that kind of sucking it under toilet bowl to oh my God, like they crash it.

Austin Conrad
01:00:59

As you're getting into September and they're podding up October, they're potting up that top water bite goes from subtle to not subtle very quickly.

Marvin Cash
01:01:09

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:01:09

And one of the great things about you know, if you kind of, you know, get out, let's say middle September until kind of the end of the top water season kind of, you know, we're, I guess, you know, that's probably happened, I don't know, within the last week or so, um, is it's not so hot.

Marvin Cash
01:01:23

It's kind of the benefit of like fishing post spawn muskie.

Marvin Cash
01:01:27

You can get to go do the top water thing but you don't have to go, you know, experience 98 degrees and, you know, 85% humidity.

Marvin Cash
01:01:34

Right?

Austin Conrad
01:01:36

Yeah, absolutely.

Austin Conrad
01:01:37

And I think.

Austin Conrad
01:01:38

I think September is an extremely underrated month to be out there.

Austin Conrad
01:01:42

I'm sure you've seen it where, you know, some of our rivers are heavily trafficked from recreational, you know, boaters, kayakers, canoers, whatnot.

Austin Conrad
01:01:53

And then it's like, you know, it kind of coincides with a lot of the cicada fall, you know, when you get those cool nights, the kids go back to school and everybody's, you know, they don't.

Austin Conrad
01:02:03

They land out of vacation days.

Austin Conrad
01:02:04

And so September is nice.

Austin Conrad
01:02:06

And I tell people that all the time where it's like, you know, come top water fish with me in September.

Austin Conrad
01:02:11

And they're always like, well, what about July and August?

Austin Conrad
01:02:13

And, you know, you kind of explain it.

Austin Conrad
01:02:15

You're.

Austin Conrad
01:02:15

You're very un.

Austin Conrad
01:02:16

It's.

Austin Conrad
01:02:17

It's.

Austin Conrad
01:02:17

You're unlikely to see anybody, you know, that time of year in September, and that top water bite is still good, if not sometimes better than it is in August, you know, and things shift year to year where the top water bite can be better earlier or later.

Austin Conrad
01:02:34

But September is a great time to smallmouth fish in general, whether you're talking top water or not, because they do start to shift, you know, gradually in September and October back to that bait fish bite, and then we'll catch them on top water.

Austin Conrad
01:02:47

I mean, I think Josh and I caught last top water smallmouth in November last year.

Austin Conrad
01:02:53

So, I mean, it's not something I would ever advocate for, but I mean, they do eat.

Austin Conrad
01:02:58

They will eat top water, you know, and I'm just talking top water bug like a Chuck Kraft cicada ate one in November last year.

Austin Conrad
01:03:05

And I'm sure people have stories where they caught them and, you know, December on them or whatnot.

Austin Conrad
01:03:10

But.

Austin Conrad
01:03:11

But I mean, it does happen.

Austin Conrad
01:03:12

And, and what's nice is that time of year you're seeing less people, less people, you know, traffic in the river and the fishing is still great.

Austin Conrad
01:03:19

And like you said, the weather is phenomenal.

Austin Conrad
01:03:21

And going back to what you said about the muskie is, you know, you're trading waders and big puffy jackets in December for in May.

Austin Conrad
01:03:29

You're fishing for muskie and, you know, at most, you know, river pants, but probably shorts and flip flops and a sun shirt.

Austin Conrad
01:03:37

You know, you're basically flats fishing.

Austin Conrad
01:03:39

The water's still cool that time of year in May, and you're fishing for muskie and you're fishing them with.

Austin Conrad
01:03:47

With much sparser shorter flies, easier to tackle and whatnot.

Austin Conrad
01:03:52

But same thing, you know, this these last couple summers, which, and you're familiar with too, these have been hot summer, particularly early on and you know, we had days where I tried to reschedule people or, you know, I would cancel if it was egregious where, you know, you're over 100 degrees, smallmouth fishing and you're in July.

Austin Conrad
01:04:16

And to be honest with you, I don't think that's comfortable for anybody.

Austin Conrad
01:04:21

You know, young folks.

Austin Conrad
01:04:23

Sure, you know, I'll go out there and do it if somebody wants to.

Austin Conrad
01:04:27

But you know that while we have a year round fishery, July can be really, really hot.

Austin Conrad
01:04:33

And it's a great time to vacation.

Austin Conrad
01:04:34

It's a great time to be on the new river, the James River.

Austin Conrad
01:04:37

So I never want to dissuade somebody but, but you know, I try to put, you know, almost push people, you know, reading that room or, or whatnot.

Austin Conrad
01:04:46

You know, if I can tell it's a factor for them, I'll be like, hey, you know, I know you think July top water Bogan is the best, but actually September is great and you're going to be ten times more comfortable.

Austin Conrad
01:04:59

So I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

Austin Conrad
01:05:02

I think that's an underrated aspect of coming out and fishing that time of year.

Marvin Cash
01:05:07

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Cash
01:05:08

And I always like to ask outfitters too.

Marvin Cash
01:05:11

They always have something they're kind of known for or sets them apart from, I hate to say competition, but other people that do what you do.

Marvin Cash
01:05:18

Right.

Marvin Cash
01:05:20

And, and so Austin, what do you think, you know, Virginia trophy guides does that's different from other guys out on the river?

Austin Conrad
01:05:28

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:05:29

So I, I think that the, you know, Josh and I, when especially you know, with the smallmouth program, I mean we, we really do pride ourselves on having a good program for, for targeting the big fish in the system and, you know, kind of carrying that torch, you know, that, that, you know, Blaine kind of started in this region with, with targeting those fish on swim flies and game changers and doing it the way we want to do it, but still, you know, not sacrificing the experience for somebody, you know, because sometimes swim flies are not easy for everybody to cast or, or what have you.

Austin Conrad
01:06:12

And so I think that we definitely pride ourselves on the pursuit of like, big fish.

Austin Conrad
01:06:19

And that's, that's kind of what I think separates us, you know, maybe in this, in this region, you know, where we're hoping to take people that they want to grind it out for the biggest smallmouth in that system, you know, that kind of swim fly tradition down here in the mid Atlantic, I think that's.

Austin Conrad
01:06:42

That's something that we pride ourselves on and then being really approachable.

Austin Conrad
01:06:47

You know, the guides, you know, that was a big thing with, with, you know, working with.

Austin Conrad
01:06:54

First, working with Josh is the experience and showing somebody a good time and being somebody that, you know, a client wants to spend eight to 12 hours a day with.

Austin Conrad
01:07:06

So that's another thing too, is creating that experience for somebody that, you know, from the time they book to beyond, you know, it's easy for them.

Austin Conrad
01:07:17

They're having a good time, you know, despite the conditions and enjoying their time with you on the water.

Austin Conrad
01:07:23

And we do too.

Austin Conrad
01:07:23

I mean, that's, you know, we.

Austin Conrad
01:07:25

We wouldn't do it if we didn't love it.

Austin Conrad
01:07:27

So.

Austin Conrad
01:07:28

So, yeah, I think that, you know, employing a lot of things that, you know, maybe are not necessarily unique to us, but.

Austin Conrad
01:07:34

Or maybe unique to this region, you know, some of that, you know, Midwest tradition, you know, some of the stuff that Schultz employs, applying it or, you know, pioneered and applying it down here, you know, kind of trying to carry that torch that Blaine started down here with the game changer tradition and targeting the biggest fish in that system with.

Austin Conrad
01:07:58

With those flies triggering that predatory.

Austin Conrad
01:08:02

That predatory bite.

Austin Conrad
01:08:03

I think that that's something that, that I pride myself on and, and, you know, try to learn from those guys and, and, you know, adapted to my own and, and sharing that experience with people.

Austin Conrad
01:08:15

Because I think that that's one of those things that people book, you know, based a lot of times on that because they're like, man, I, you know, I can't tell you how often we get that where people are like, look, you know, I, I want to, you know, learn how to fish a game changer or swinging D or a leggy boy.

Austin Conrad
01:08:31

Like, they're like, I just.

Austin Conrad
01:08:33

I'm not getting it.

Austin Conrad
01:08:34

You know what I mean?

Austin Conrad
01:08:34

I'm going out in mid April.

Austin Conrad
01:08:36

Something's not clicking.

Austin Conrad
01:08:37

They book a trip and like, it's like a light switch sometimes, because despite the fact that you're fishing, the engineering in those flies, a lot of times, you know, mixed with the tackle that matches the scenario and those flies, there is still a little bit of.

Austin Conrad
01:08:54

Not even a little bit.

Austin Conrad
01:08:55

There is absolutely angler effort and guide effort that goes into it.

Austin Conrad
01:08:59

And there's, you know, we're.

Austin Conrad
01:09:01

We're helping you fish those flies, you know, whether you know it or not.

Austin Conrad
01:09:06

And, and then it's like, it clicks and they, they end up hanging A big fish.

Austin Conrad
01:09:11

And they're like, oh man.

Austin Conrad
01:09:12

Like, okay, I get it.

Austin Conrad
01:09:14

You know, and that's, that's something that I really enjoy is being able to share that kind of experience with clients.

Marvin Cash
01:09:24

Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing thing.

Marvin Cash
01:09:26

I mean, YouTube has its place, but there's really no substitute for being on the water with people who know the fishery and kind of know the game inside out.

Marvin Cash
01:09:37

I mean, I always tell people that are kind of new in the sport or feel kind of stuck that the best thing you can do is to go find a good teaching guide and go spend some time on the water with them.

Austin Conrad
01:09:47

Absolutely.

Austin Conrad
01:09:47

I'm a firm believer and I tell clients my, you know, they're, hey, we're going down to, you know, the Outer Banks or, or Virginia beach or wherever.

Austin Conrad
01:09:58

Right.

Austin Conrad
01:09:58

And they're like, where, where should I go fish?

Austin Conrad
01:10:00

And the first thing I tell them is like, look, you know, finances allow.

Austin Conrad
01:10:04

You should always book a guide.

Austin Conrad
01:10:06

You're gonna, I mean, your time is going to be better spent despite, you know, the fact that there's an entry cost.

Austin Conrad
01:10:14

Your time is going to be better spent, you know, with a guide.

Austin Conrad
01:10:17

Because whenever you're in this, you know, you're in the New River Valley or you're down in Virginia beach or whatever, you may only have eight hours to fit that entire week or four days or however long you are, it might as well be spent with somebody that's going to put you in the best position to succeed.

Austin Conrad
01:10:34

Right.

Austin Conrad
01:10:34

And then also you may learn something or you should, in my opinion, learn something that you can take somewhere else.

Austin Conrad
01:10:41

That's, that's a big thing with me.

Austin Conrad
01:10:44

You know, I'm hoping that somebody will leave.

Austin Conrad
01:10:47

And it may not always translate from smallmouth or muskie to a redfish trip, but they can be a little bit better.

Austin Conrad
01:10:54

And you know, most guides that you're going to book with, or hopefully most guys you're going to book with, are going to employ that same philosophy where, you know, there's just something that you can learn along the way throughout the trip and leave with it and it'll stick with you forever.

Austin Conrad
01:11:08

So, so yeah, I'm, I'm a big proponent of that is, is at the very least, at the very least you should find a fly shop or something, go in there and chat with them, because there's nothing, like you said, that's going to be on the water experience and, and YouTube can be great too, for sure.

Austin Conrad
01:11:24

But, but the hands on experience is hard to beat.

Austin Conrad
01:11:27

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:11:27

And then I always say, if You've gone to all that trouble to find the best guide.

Marvin Cash
01:11:30

Please listen to them.

Marvin Cash
01:11:32

Right?

Austin Conrad
01:11:33

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:11:34

Yeah, for sure.

Austin Conrad
01:11:35

I mean, we.

Austin Conrad
01:11:36

We definitely appreciate when people listen.

Austin Conrad
01:11:39

It's like, it's.

Austin Conrad
01:11:41

It can be the difference between.

Austin Conrad
01:11:43

And I tell people this all the time.

Austin Conrad
01:11:44

Like, you don't want to seem like a nag, but, you know, you kind of reinforce, like, hey, you know, I don't want to just be here to row you down the river.

Austin Conrad
01:11:52

That's not my job.

Austin Conrad
01:11:53

So, like, hey, slow it down.

Austin Conrad
01:11:55

You know, put a pause in that.

Austin Conrad
01:11:57

You know, whatever.

Austin Conrad
01:11:58

And it's like, boom, there's one.

Austin Conrad
01:11:59

And they're like, oh, you know, it's like, sometimes you'll have those moments where people are like, you know, they're hitting fish, and then they're like, 20 minutes where they've got completely off rhythm, and then they're like, you think we should switch the fly?

Austin Conrad
01:12:11

And I'm like, hey, let me show you something real quick.

Austin Conrad
01:12:13

You put it back in there, you fish it the exact same way they were fishing at 30 minutes ago.

Austin Conrad
01:12:17

And then, boom, there's a fish, you hand it to them, and it's.

Austin Conrad
01:12:20

That's always such, like a, ah.

Austin Conrad
01:12:22

Moment where it's like, yeah, you just got.

Austin Conrad
01:12:24

You got a little off track.

Austin Conrad
01:12:25

But that's another thing.

Austin Conrad
01:12:27

I mean, I love when people all day, like, I think people think that it's annoying, but they're like, I love when people all day ask questions and they're engaged.

Austin Conrad
01:12:36

If you're.

Austin Conrad
01:12:37

If you're engaged with me and we're chatting all day, we're.

Austin Conrad
01:12:41

That's more often than not.

Austin Conrad
01:12:42

That's a successful day.

Austin Conrad
01:12:43

You know, we're like, you know, we're.

Austin Conrad
01:12:45

We're sharing in this experience.

Austin Conrad
01:12:47

We're.

Austin Conrad
01:12:47

We're partners here.

Austin Conrad
01:12:48

I'm trying to watch you succeed, and I love that.

Austin Conrad
01:12:52

And it doesn't ever bother me.

Austin Conrad
01:12:54

I mean, sometimes it's funny.

Austin Conrad
01:12:55

And then you, you know, you end up asking the same things over and over again.

Austin Conrad
01:12:59

But I would prefer that than somebody who books a trip and then, you know, doesn't.

Austin Conrad
01:13:04

It doesn't want to learn anything all day, you know, because I'm not there to just row somebody down a river.

Austin Conrad
01:13:11

That's not the experience with me.

Austin Conrad
01:13:13

You know what I mean?

Austin Conrad
01:13:14

I'm there to help you hunt the fly for specific fish or help you grow as an angler.

Austin Conrad
01:13:20

And.

Austin Conrad
01:13:20

And I think you're right.

Austin Conrad
01:13:21

I mean, just listen to your guide.

Austin Conrad
01:13:23

I know that's a common trope, but, yeah, listen, I don't care where you go Louisiana, California, New York, Bahamas.

Austin Conrad
01:13:31

Listen to your guide and ask questions.

Austin Conrad
01:13:34

They'll tell you if they want you to stop asking them.

Austin Conrad
01:13:36

But I think you should, you should start by asking questions.

Marvin Cash
01:13:40

Yeah, for sure.

Marvin Cash
01:13:40

And so let's see, we've got, so if we want to like kind of walk through the rest of the team at Virginia Trophy guys, it's, it's you and Josh and then you've got Skippy Britches, right?

Marvin Cash
01:13:51

Is the kind of the new young guy, Braden Miller?

Austin Conrad
01:13:55

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:13:56

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:13:56

So Josh and I are, you know, co owners of Virginia Trophy Guides.

Austin Conrad
01:14:02

And, and Josh, like I said, he's been a fly fishing and conventional tackle guide and on both the new and the James river for over two decades.

Austin Conrad
01:14:15

And then Braden, you know, that was, that's the new addition, I guess, in the last year, two years.

Austin Conrad
01:14:24

You know, he, he is a really talented, really funny kid.

Austin Conrad
01:14:30

And he's, he's not only an exceptional angler and it at times will make you self conscious cushion around him.

Austin Conrad
01:14:37

But, but he's, he's really turned into a phenomenal guide and at a very young age.

Austin Conrad
01:14:46

And he did his first season up in Alaska with Josh and I think that was kind of a growing experience.

Austin Conrad
01:14:50

In the last couple years, he's mated for Jake Jordan down in North Carolina for Albies and Bull Drum.

Austin Conrad
01:14:56

And this year we actually went down and fished with him actually just a few days ago.

Austin Conrad
01:15:02

You know, he's kind of, you know, like as Jake wants a day off or days off or whatever.

Austin Conrad
01:15:08

Braden's running the boat.

Austin Conrad
01:15:09

You know, he's a full licensed captain.

Austin Conrad
01:15:11

We all are.

Austin Conrad
01:15:12

And, you know, and he did a, it wasn't a shock to us, but he, he worked his ass off for the couple days we were down there.

Austin Conrad
01:15:21

And you know, he's, like I said for 19, it's, it's pretty impressive.

Austin Conrad
01:15:29

The guy that he's turning into, he's got all the talents in the world.

Austin Conrad
01:15:33

Humble kid, funny as can be, man.

Austin Conrad
01:15:37

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:15:38

Skippy Britches.

Austin Conrad
01:15:41

I can't.

Austin Conrad
01:15:42

What is it that.

Austin Conrad
01:15:43

Well, his mom calls him Precious and Blaine likes to call him Precious too.

Austin Conrad
01:15:47

We all like to call him Precious.

Austin Conrad
01:15:48

I love that.

Austin Conrad
01:15:49

That's out on the airwaves.

Marvin Cash
01:15:50

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:15:51

So if you see him at a show and then you can also impress us and you'll also, if you talk to him in a fly fishing show, he doesn't like to sell his flies.

Marvin Cash
01:15:59

So.

Austin Conrad
01:16:00

No, no, he's, it's for.

Austin Conrad
01:16:02

And that's another thing too.

Austin Conrad
01:16:03

I mean, he is an exceptionally talented fly tire and I Think that part of it too is, you know, he doesn't get enough credit for.

Austin Conrad
01:16:12

I mean, he, it was like, we joke.

Austin Conrad
01:16:13

He was born in a fly fishing booth, you know, and he was, you know, I mean, in a lot of ways he's been there and present in that part of the industry for.

Austin Conrad
01:16:22

Since he was what, 12?

Austin Conrad
01:16:24

I mean, you've known him longer than I have and you know, he's a talented tire and I think he's just like, he spent so long doing it.

Austin Conrad
01:16:33

I have seen it now where he works shows with us where he's trying to talk about his fishing program.

Austin Conrad
01:16:40

And it's like he's almost trying to make time take a slight back seat because he's.

Austin Conrad
01:16:44

People are like, hey, hey, how do I do this?

Austin Conrad
01:16:46

How do I do this?

Austin Conrad
01:16:47

And he's like, I want to talk to you about smallmouth fishing or muskie fishing or albie fishing, you know, so.

Austin Conrad
01:16:54

So yeah, he's.

Austin Conrad
01:16:55

He will not.

Austin Conrad
01:16:56

He won't.

Austin Conrad
01:16:56

He won't sell you any flies.

Austin Conrad
01:16:57

He won't even sell me flies.

Austin Conrad
01:16:59

So good luck.

Marvin Cash
01:17:01

You need to talk to his mom.

Marvin Cash
01:17:02

She'll get it set for you.

Austin Conrad
01:17:05

Yeah, she'll get them straight.

Marvin Cash
01:17:09

So that's your team.

Marvin Cash
01:17:10

And you touched on this a little bit and we talked about this in the pre interview talk, but you've kind of brushed up against it while we've been talking this evening.

Marvin Cash
01:17:19

I'm a little bit older than Blaine, but we're about the same age, so we kind of have a similar perspective on what the fisheries were like when we were younger in central Virginia.

Marvin Cash
01:17:29

And Blaine certainly more so than me because, you know, I didn't have access to a boat as a kid, so.

Marvin Cash
01:17:34

But I know, you know, you've been in the game long enough to see the changes.

Marvin Cash
01:17:37

I mean, you know, we've got a great program, you know, kind of in, you know, the mid Atlantic, but people also know it's a great program.

Marvin Cash
01:17:46

And so we've seen a pretty radical increase in fishing pressure and we've certainly seen impacts on fishing populations.

Marvin Cash
01:17:53

I mean, I think, you know, knock on wood, we've had probably in the last five or six years pretty good smallmouth spawns.

Marvin Cash
01:17:59

But, you know, the fisheries are certainly not what they were say in the 80s or the 90s, and was kind of curious, you know, your thoughts on what you think we need to do so that current and future generations can continue to enjoy the resource.

Marvin Cash
01:18:12

And probably an add on question there is another piece of this puzzle is we're seeing more and more tech Creep into fishing.

Marvin Cash
01:18:21

And that's kind of code for live scoping and things like that.

Marvin Cash
01:18:24

So why don't you let folks know what you think about all that stuff?

Austin Conrad
01:18:28

Yeah, so I mean, as far as that question goes, I, you know, I can, I can speak to my, my own experience kind of only here where, you know, when I was younger, when I was a kid, teenager fishing with, with my grandfather, you know, it was not uncommon on the New river to have these banner days.

Austin Conrad
01:18:51

Right.

Austin Conrad
01:18:51

You know, and, and I grew up fishing with gear, you know, so there's an asterisk a little bit or in the fly fishing world there's considered an asterisk.

Austin Conrad
01:19:00

But you know, where you would see, you know, you could see 10, 15, 20 citation fish days a smallmouth in March and April, you know, where you're catching citations, you know, left and right, back to back and not even moving tons of river miles.

Austin Conrad
01:19:20

And you know, talking to Josh and Blaine, sometimes it does make me sick to hear about, you know, the salad date, like when they were guiding in the early 2000s and you have, you know, 10 musky days and you're all these things which, I mean, they can still happen.

Austin Conrad
01:19:36

Don't get me wrong, you know, the fish are still there.

Austin Conrad
01:19:38

In fact the muskie populations according to our, you know, to our state agencies or in better density, better shape than they've ever been.

Austin Conrad
01:19:50

But you know, those days where there was the lack of pressure, you know, when I was younger, I mean we would go to a boat ramp, you know, on the New river or whatever and you wouldn't see anybody else and, and that was a Saturday or Sunday, you may see one other guy, you know what I mean?

Austin Conrad
01:20:06

So, you know, obviously the pressures increased the way that, and I think that it's, it's a, it's a mixture of pressure and then it's exactly what you said.

Austin Conrad
01:20:18

So the number one enemy to successful, you know, small mouth populations in Appalachia.

Austin Conrad
01:20:26

But let's just say, you know, the two rivers I guide specifically are, is the fact that when they spawn and right post spawn is a lady season.

Austin Conrad
01:20:38

You know, in Appalachia, you know, temperate rainforest, you know, people forget.

Austin Conrad
01:20:42

And so the blowouts hurt those fish, hurt the numbers.

Austin Conrad
01:20:48

You know, traditionally speaking it can.

Austin Conrad
01:20:51

There are obviously years where it's really bad for a couple of years.

Austin Conrad
01:20:54

And then like you said, you know, the last four or five years have been fantastic spawn classes.

Austin Conrad
01:20:59

We've had, you know, minimal high water events during their spawning and those classes have gone out off with a bang.

Austin Conrad
01:21:07

And it Makes you look forward and happy for what's to come in the next eight years, 10 years when you know you've got a really healthy population of 18 to 22 inch bass, things like that, which right now, particularly on the new, where I do 90% of, you know, my smallmouth guiding or almost all of it, I would say, you know, we've got a really healthy population of 18 to 22 inch bass.

Austin Conrad
01:21:35

But to counter that we've also got more pressure than we ever had.

Austin Conrad
01:21:39

And I don't think a lot of people realize this either, but the New River, I can't remember what the publication was, but it was like a bigger kind of outdoor publication.

Austin Conrad
01:21:50

But the New river was considered in the top 10 best smallmouth bass fisheries in the country and it was the only one in the top 10 that was a river.

Austin Conrad
01:22:02

So it's known for having large smallies and having a large or high density of smallies and particularly large smallings.

Austin Conrad
01:22:11

It's got all the, all the trappings of a great smallmouth river habitat, flow, things like that.

Austin Conrad
01:22:18

Food, I mean it's a food factory.

Austin Conrad
01:22:20

I mean it's, you know, I'm sure you've seen it too.

Austin Conrad
01:22:23

But I mean crawl dads that their tails at your wrist and their claws are beyond your middle finger, you know, lobsters and you know, helgrites galore, stone rollers, suckers, chubbs, whatever.

Austin Conrad
01:22:37

But you know, the pressure is higher than it ever has been.

Austin Conrad
01:22:40

And a lot of that is, you know, social media, YouTube, post Covid and that stuff happens.

Austin Conrad
01:22:47

And I think, you know, the big thing and Josh and I preach this, it's our job to navigate the increasing pressure and do the best we can despite it.

Austin Conrad
01:22:58

So while it can be frustrating and really what the only thing that's frustrating to me about it because it is a free country, is that the only frustrating thing I see is that as the pressure increases, I would like to see safe handling practices really preached and employed.

Austin Conrad
01:23:15

You see people, I see it all the time where people, they deck load muskies into jet boats.

Austin Conrad
01:23:20

They, they put smallmouth bass on their kayak to measure them in July at 1pm and it's just cooking one side of them and you know, like those kind of things.

Austin Conrad
01:23:32

I would like to see, you know, particularly our state agencies, you know, really drive home.

Austin Conrad
01:23:39

I'm, I, I'm less interested in seeing them post what fisheries are great.

Austin Conrad
01:23:45

And I mean you can tell the bdgif I said this, but you know, what fisheries are great.

Austin Conrad
01:23:51

And I don't have A problem with that.

Austin Conrad
01:23:53

But on the flip side, what I would like to see them do is take a step in the right direction for safe fish handling practices.

Austin Conrad
01:24:01

And that's a big thing.

Austin Conrad
01:24:03

Wetting your bump board, minimizing your handling period.

Austin Conrad
01:24:08

If you catch a big muskie, you know, having a big net or catch a muskie, or if you're muskie fishing, having a big net and, you know, needle nose pliers and wire cutters and all the things that I think are just as important as the right tackle to take care of them.

Austin Conrad
01:24:25

And if you get a nice one, take it to the bank, take care of it.

Austin Conrad
01:24:28

And you know what I'm also sick of seeing is, is a vertical hold on muskie.

Austin Conrad
01:24:33

It's terrible for them, you know, supporting them.

Austin Conrad
01:24:36

And one, it makes for a better picture.

Austin Conrad
01:24:38

Two, you know, with you hold them by the tail, you support their belly, and guess what?

Austin Conrad
01:24:42

When you hold their belly, their mouth drops open and it gives them that classic iconic musky look.

Austin Conrad
01:24:48

You know, where, where their mouth is, is.

Austin Conrad
01:24:51

Is open and you see all those teeth.

Austin Conrad
01:24:53

And so, I mean, there's certain things, you know, and, and I could catch grief for it, and that's fine.

Austin Conrad
01:24:58

I don't care.

Austin Conrad
01:24:58

I'm willing to go to bat for it.

Austin Conrad
01:25:00

But, you know, certain things, with the increasing pressure, like I said, it's a free country.

Austin Conrad
01:25:05

I'm all about people enjoying our resources as Americans.

Austin Conrad
01:25:10

But I would like to see everybody take a step in the right direction.

Austin Conrad
01:25:15

State agencies, outfitters, guides, what have you, pushing safe handling practices as more and more people get on the water.

Austin Conrad
01:25:23

And that's something that we, all three of us, and I mean, we stress this to Braden, you know, Josh stressed it to me, and something that I already, you know, was passionate about.

Austin Conrad
01:25:31

But whenever we were handling these fish with clients, you know, we, we walked them step by step, you know, in case they go smallmouth fishing or muskie fishing anywhere or, you know, on the same, same watersheds.

Austin Conrad
01:25:46

And I want to see them take care of those fish.

Austin Conrad
01:25:48

And so I show them, you know, look, here's when you would need new jaw spreaders.

Austin Conrad
01:25:52

Here's when, you know, you need these needle nose pliers.

Austin Conrad
01:25:55

Look, you need a big net.

Austin Conrad
01:25:57

And here's why, you know, with the bass, it's the same thing.

Austin Conrad
01:26:00

You know, you don't want to cook them on the side of my drift boat, you know, on the, on the rod trace.

Austin Conrad
01:26:06

You know, you want to wet your bump board.

Austin Conrad
01:26:08

You know, you want to minimize the handling.

Austin Conrad
01:26:11

You want to not jaw jack them, you know, Just, I mean, we're out there fishing for them, and at a certain point, too, we're.

Austin Conrad
01:26:17

We are poking them in the face with steel, but you want to do everything you can, you know, unless you're harvesting them to.

Austin Conrad
01:26:25

To take care of them and ensure that they're there for the next time or somebody else, you know, so that's, you know, that navigating the pressure is tough, for sure.

Austin Conrad
01:26:35

And.

Austin Conrad
01:26:36

But it's.

Austin Conrad
01:26:36

The way we look at it is it's.

Austin Conrad
01:26:38

It's not going to change, and it is my job.

Austin Conrad
01:26:41

And.

Austin Conrad
01:26:42

And, you know, Josh would tell me, you know, there's no excuse for it, and we would tell Braden the same thing, you know, tough luck.

Austin Conrad
01:26:49

I mean, there's people out there now.

Austin Conrad
01:26:50

It is what it is.

Austin Conrad
01:26:51

Nobody's got the river to themselves, and that's fine.

Austin Conrad
01:26:54

I enjoy watching people enjoy the resource.

Austin Conrad
01:26:56

But, you know, as far as the electronics go, like, what I would say about that is I've got, you know, for certain things, like on a.

Austin Conrad
01:27:05

You know, we don't guide any lakes, you know, for elide scope and sonar.

Austin Conrad
01:27:12

All those things are.

Austin Conrad
01:27:14

They can be absolutely necessary on a lake system, and I don't have a ton of lake fishing or guiding experience, but they can be necessary on the river you're on.

Austin Conrad
01:27:25

And it'll crack me up.

Austin Conrad
01:27:26

Like, I'll be at a boat ramp, and you see these jet boats and like, hey, man, we scoped six muskie right here.

Austin Conrad
01:27:33

And they're like, telling you, and you're like, dude, they go to that same spot every year in May.

Austin Conrad
01:27:40

You know, it's like, that's where they go.

Austin Conrad
01:27:42

Like you're sitting in an eddie that, you know, it's hard.

Austin Conrad
01:27:45

It's like you said, it's hard to beat on the time hand or on the water.

Austin Conrad
01:27:50

Hands on river knowledge.

Austin Conrad
01:27:51

Because as a guide, I need to know that seasonally where these fish go and why.

Austin Conrad
01:27:56

And what are spots that I should be taking your fish, and what are spots that maybe at this, you know, time of day, we should push through and whatnot.

Austin Conrad
01:28:04

You know, I don't think electronics are necessary in a river system, you know.

Austin Conrad
01:28:10

Sure.

Austin Conrad
01:28:10

I mean, if people want to employ them, I'm.

Austin Conrad
01:28:13

What, you know, whatever.

Austin Conrad
01:28:14

I think they can be at the detriment.

Austin Conrad
01:28:15

To the detriment of a fishery.

Austin Conrad
01:28:17

I think a lot of that is yet to be seen.

Austin Conrad
01:28:19

You know, what's going to happen.

Austin Conrad
01:28:21

But, yeah, I definitely.

Austin Conrad
01:28:23

I don't think, you know, I don't think you need them, is what I will say along and the Short of it is, you know, muskie and smallmouth seasonally go to the same places every year.

Austin Conrad
01:28:33

And then you grew up on these rivers too.

Austin Conrad
01:28:35

I mean, it's all wedge and rock dependent, current dependent.

Austin Conrad
01:28:38

And so, you know, with a little bit of experience, you know, where they are or where they should be.

Austin Conrad
01:28:44

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:28:44

I think the challenge with particularly the big muskie is that, you know, they're not a lot of them and it takes a long time to grow them.

Marvin Cash
01:28:51

Right.

Marvin Cash
01:28:52

And you know, the thing to think about, you know, put aside wherever you want to come out on, like put your time in and really earn the fish versus go out and, you know, hit them with the, with the live scope and then go pound on them.

Marvin Cash
01:29:04

But you know, one way to think about it, I mean, folks do whatever you want to do, right.

Marvin Cash
01:29:09

But what I would say is, you know, if you think about it from the standpoint of fair chase and if everybody on the river live scopes of 54 inch Muskie and pounds the snot out of it, it's going to change that fish's behavior and it's going to fundamentally alter the fishery.

Austin Conrad
01:29:27

Absolutely.

Austin Conrad
01:29:28

And I think that there are certain ways with live scope that you can, I mean, like I said, they go to the same places every year, but if you can pinpoint radar, you know, three muskie sitting in an eddy and you're just pestering them, pestering them, pestering them until they eat.

Austin Conrad
01:29:49

I think it's to be determined what the detriment of that is going to be.

Austin Conrad
01:29:54

And here's what I will say to add to the safe handling is that when I talk to Josh and Blaine about this a lot because I mean, they have a lot more experience than I do guiding or fishing for them, you know, in general.

Austin Conrad
01:30:07

You know, so I talked to him kind of about the idea that, I mean, you think about it, even with safe handling, you know, you catch a four foot muskie, you know, so many times in a season, or few people catch it throughout the season, you know, there's a good likelihood that even with safe handling, that fish may not make it through the fourth fish hooking or, you know, or fight of that season.

Austin Conrad
01:30:36

And that, that's something that, you know, you're talking about the, the, you know, the morality of, of fishing, I guess there.

Austin Conrad
01:30:46

But you know, I, I think that, you know, you add, what I mean to say is that you add live scoping on top of that and you know, they're like, it's like you said, there's, there are less adult musky and smallmouth in a system than there are juveniles.

Austin Conrad
01:31:01

And right now both of these fisheries are in a really healthy, you know, really healthy spot with 28 to 38 inch muscular.

Austin Conrad
01:31:13

And there's always going to be less adults.

Austin Conrad
01:31:16

But I think that, you know, with increased pressure, we have seen maybe that there are even less adults now and then also they're a little more wary.

Austin Conrad
01:31:28

And it goes back to, you know, I was talking about.

Austin Conrad
01:31:30

Sometimes it would make.

Austin Conrad
01:31:32

Makes me sick listening to Josh and Blaine talk about, you know, eight in one day.

Austin Conrad
01:31:38

You know, figure 8, 6, 7, 8 Muskie in one day.

Austin Conrad
01:31:42

And, you know, you start to see them.

Austin Conrad
01:31:44

I'm sure you've seen this too.

Austin Conrad
01:31:45

Fishing with Blaine.

Austin Conrad
01:31:46

They're getting more and more wary of boats.

Austin Conrad
01:31:48

And so while they will eat in the figure 8, it happens, you know, every, you know, all the time, you know, but.

Austin Conrad
01:31:56

And they will go into the rotations at the very least.

Austin Conrad
01:31:59

They're getting more and more boat wary.

Austin Conrad
01:32:01

And that's a fact.

Austin Conrad
01:32:03

I don't care what anybody says.

Austin Conrad
01:32:05

And I think that's there's even more importance on our.

Austin Conrad
01:32:08

On hunting your fry away from the boat now and not being lazy and being on top of it.

Austin Conrad
01:32:13

And that's where I'm on you, you know, I'm on you all the way, you know, muskie fishing.

Austin Conrad
01:32:17

I'm standing the guy in the front of the boat.

Austin Conrad
01:32:20

I'm on your shoulder, you know, watching.

Austin Conrad
01:32:23

If you mess up in the figure eight and you hit the boat or, you know, you're making noise, you're shuffling your feet, I'm on you, you know, just like, look, man, you know, I, you know, I know I keep telling you, but it can be the difference maker between a fish.

Austin Conrad
01:32:36

And I can't tell you how many times I've seen that, you know, and, and I think that is a result of increased pressure where somebody hits the rod or hits the boat with the rod and that's in that.

Austin Conrad
01:32:47

It's not a natural noise, you know, they're in the figure eight and they're in that Cheshire cat mode where all they want to do is kill that thing and they're on the fifth rotation.

Austin Conrad
01:32:55

All of a sudden, you know, Joe hits the boat, you know, with the rod and it comes out of that, you know, trance and it shoots off.

Austin Conrad
01:33:03

I mean, there's only one thing that made it do that and it was that rod.

Austin Conrad
01:33:06

And so, you know, I think they're becoming more and more aware.

Austin Conrad
01:33:08

And not to say that that fish wouldn't have done that anyways, but you know, you, that's where, you know, you got to be sharp is with the increased pressure, you know, it's my job to be on you more.

Austin Conrad
01:33:19

Hey, you're moving that fly too fast.

Austin Conrad
01:33:21

Hey, you're not pausing enough.

Austin Conrad
01:33:23

Hey, you're, you know, you're popping that bug when you're not spaced to, you know, I want to see you succeed.

Austin Conrad
01:33:28

And so despite the pressure, you know, maybe I can't be as hands off as.

Austin Conrad
01:33:34

As I could have been, say, if I was a guide in Virginia 20 years ago.

Austin Conrad
01:33:38

So.

Marvin Cash
01:33:40

Well, and as it just helps me reiterate what I said earlier, which is listen to your guide.

Austin Conrad
01:33:46

Yeah, absolutely.

Austin Conrad
01:33:47

Absolutely.

Marvin Cash
01:33:48

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:33:48

And so, Austin, before I let you go this evening, is there anything else you want to share with our listeners?

Austin Conrad
01:33:56

Yeah, you know, obviously I'm appreciative for you having me on and, and we invite anybody, you know, all, all levels of skill to come fish with us and, and really see, you know, I'm, I'm very lucky to work on two really great fisheries for both smallmouth bass and muskie.

Austin Conrad
01:34:21

But an added benefit to those fisheries is that while the fishing is good, you know, the sights are incredible.

Austin Conrad
01:34:29

And yeah, we may have scared you a little bit about a hot July day or a really cold December day, but it's.

Austin Conrad
01:34:36

It's nothing that we can't fix, you know, with, with, you know, a jacket or, you know, fishing, fishing earlier or rescheduling, but it's hard to beat.

Austin Conrad
01:34:46

And I know you can speak to this too, the views that we have in western and southwest Virginia.

Austin Conrad
01:34:52

I wouldn't rather be anywhere else.

Austin Conrad
01:34:54

And then, you know, could.

Austin Conrad
01:34:56

Could work in Alaska still.

Austin Conrad
01:34:58

And, you know, I choose to be here during the summer and, and, you know, we would welcome anybody to come fish with us and see what fishing for muskie and small mouth bass and western Virginia is all about.

Marvin Cash
01:35:12

Yeah, it's funny you say that because I think the heat and the cold just makes the beer and the whiskey taste better.

Austin Conrad
01:35:19

Ooh, yeah, I was going to say coffee, but I like whiskey and bourbon better.

Marvin Cash
01:35:23

See, there you go.

Marvin Cash
01:35:24

And the bourbon is the Virginia thing.

Marvin Cash
01:35:27

And so, Austin, if folks want to learn more about Virginia trophy guides or book a day or follow you guys on the water, where should they go?

Austin Conrad
01:35:36

Yeah, so, I mean, you know, you can go to our website, you know, Virginia trophyguides.com.

Austin Conrad
01:35:43

you know, we are on Instagram and Facebook, the exact same name as well.

Austin Conrad
01:35:50

Or you can reach out to us and call us.

Austin Conrad
01:35:52

You know, emails are great, but I think sometimes, you know, with, you know, people.

Austin Conrad
01:35:56

People tend to have a lot of questions.

Austin Conrad
01:35:58

And, you know, Josh and I, I mean, you could probably tell from this, this chat here that I'm not shy.

Austin Conrad
01:36:05

Um, you know, you can call me at 11pm and chat with, you know, hey, when should I come fishing?

Austin Conrad
01:36:11

And that's.

Austin Conrad
01:36:12

That's something that we stress, right, Is when people call us, you know, you know, figure out what you want to fish for and what you want to achieve, and then we can help you hand pick days.

Austin Conrad
01:36:23

And.

Austin Conrad
01:36:24

And I think that makes for the best experience.

Austin Conrad
01:36:26

So give us a shout.

Austin Conrad
01:36:27

I mean, you know, call us, email us, you know, you can reach out to us on DMS from the social media.

Austin Conrad
01:36:34

And.

Austin Conrad
01:36:34

And yeah, we're.

Austin Conrad
01:36:35

You can reach us at any time.

Austin Conrad
01:36:37

We're not the book.

Marvin Cash
01:36:38

Well, there you go, Austin.

Marvin Cash
01:36:40

I really appreciate you taking some time out of your evening to chat with me.

Austin Conrad
01:36:44

Yeah, thank you, Marvin.

Austin Conrad
01:36:46

Hopefully be able to get you out and do some.

Austin Conrad
01:36:48

Some bass fishing, some muskie fishing and some bourbon drinking.

Marvin Cash
01:36:52

Yeah.

Marvin Cash
01:36:53

Or we can do summer and fish when it's hot and drink gin and tonics.

Marvin Cash
01:36:57

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:36:58

Yeah.

Austin Conrad
01:36:58

Looking forward to seeing you this winter, too, so.

Marvin Cash
01:37:02

Absolutely.

Marvin Cash
01:37:03

Take care.

Austin Conrad
01:37:04

Yeah, take care, Mom.

Marvin Cash
01:37:07

Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

Marvin Cash
01:37:11

Don't forget to check out trout routes.pro@maps.troutroutes.com Use ArtFly 20 Art Fly 20 all one word to get 20% off of your membership.

Marvin Cash
01:37:22

Tight lines, everybody.