S6, Ep 58: Reeling in Serenity: Sylvia & Ian Huron on Recovery and Fly Fishing

Marvin Cash: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by Sylvia Huron and her son, Ian. They generously discussed Sylvia's recovery journey and the charity they co-founded, Reeling in Serenity, to support others in recovery through fly fishing. I really think you're going to enjoy this touching story. But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating or view in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
And we've received several listener questions asking about the best way to support the show.
One way is to become a member of our community on Patreon and make a single or recurring donation. Our community has some great benefits like discounts on tying materials, guide trips, and more. Check out the link in the show notes for more details. And we recently released an interview-only show, The Long Haul with the Articulate Fly. So if you prefer to listen to the Articulate Fly without the fishing reports, just search The Long Haul in your favorite podcatcher.
Now, on to the interview.

Marvin Cash: Well, Sylvia and Ian, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Sylvia Huron: Thank you, Marvin. Happy to be here.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to our conversation and I really, I enjoyed getting to know you guys on the pre-interview call and I really appreciate you kind of, you know, sharing your recovery journey and then we're going to talk about all the great work that you're doing with Reeling and Serenity and I guess, you know, really, you know, the place to start, Sylvia, is with you and you're in recovery and I was wondering if you could kind of share a little bit of your path to addiction.

Sylvia Huron: Sure. Thanks, Marvin. So my path to addiction. So I was always a drinker from a young age in my teens and sort of an isolated drinker, drank on my own a lot. And i'm uh at one
point about seven eight years ago i really started drinking heavily because of some personal issues things i went through in my life um and i began to drink heavily by myself on my own and i also became addicted to xanax as well so two things i was drinking and also so addicted to Xanax as well. I basically shut myself off from family, friends, became very isolated. And it started to become a real issue when I really isolated. I isolated myself from Ian, which he's the most important thing in my life.And we've always had a wonderful relationship. relationship but at that point it was affecting my job all my relationships um i was a i was a functioning alcoholic and addict i will say which a lot of people are but for me i was able to function but it did start to interfere with my work as well um and at that point ian and a dear a dear friend of ours named Charles, Chuck Lindemood, they basically did an intervention for me and, and set up, um. A recovery center for me to go to and spoke with me. And I was sort of in denial at first, but then I realized that I really needed to do something. I needed help. And so I basically went to a recovery center. I'd never, never had a situation like that in my life and had to detox and went to a recovery center for a month. And that's kind of where my recovery journey started at that point.
But that's sort of a brief history of my journey to addiction and then also to recovery.
 
Marvin Cash: And I remember, too, in our pre-interview call that you shared that a lot of people that are struggling with addiction and substance abuse, they're afraid to get help, right? For a variety of reasons. And I was wondering, I know some of it was specific to your profession, but there were also kind of more general issues. And I was wondering, you know, if you could share a little bit about that and maybe, you know, give some advice for someone who's listening that might be similarly situated, that's kind of, you know, holding back. They know they need help, but they're scared to get help. Maybe some suggestions about maybe how to overcome that hurdle. role?

Sylvia Huron: Yeah. So I know for me and from what I've shared with other people in recovery and spoken to people in recovery, one of the biggest things is shame. I think shame really, really pulls us down and keeps us from reaching out for help. It's a very, very difficult thing to say. drugs or alcohol have such control on my life that I'm willing to lose my job. I'm willing to lose my family, lose my friend, lose the place I live, do things that other people would kind of look at and say, how could you possibly do that? But addiction is so strong that it has that control on you. And I think fame is one of the hardest, hardest things to be able to admit, I need help. And I think too, that it's not an easy journey. Recovery is not an easy journey. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life ever, and probably ever will do. Um, so I think it's just those, the shame and the willingness to say, I need help from outside. I need someone to help me deal with this. Um. I think, you know, some things you have to get to a point, at least I did, where I accepted I needed help. And I think when you're in the clutches of addiction, it's just so, it's easier to stay where you are. It takes a lot to climb out of that gully and ask for help. I think one of the things are people that are close to you. I think if you can confide in one person at least, or even an outside facility, there are a lot of addiction helplines, there are a lot of addiction centers that you can outreach to, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous. There are lots of avenues, but just taking that first step, I think it's just that first step. If you can just take that first step, the other steps come a little bit easier, easier, easier. Everybody's journey is a little bit different. um we you always think well if i relapse then i failed which i had to get it over well, it's not a failure it's just a bump in the road and you have to start again and a lot of people do they start over and they've been to multiple rehab facilities and and tried multiple times but what i would say is never give up and and just take that first step of reaching out to someone that you can confide in, even if it's on a hot, you know, a helpline, just to be able to say it and ask for help is the biggest thing. And the shame. It's not an easy thing to get over because I think you kind of, it takes a while when you're in recovery to put that shame behind you. It can take a very long time, but at the same time, you have to hold your head up and go forward and say, okay, I'm going to do this one step at a time. And, you know, I have to think about myself and what I've done in the past is history. You know, I always say if the past calls you, don't answer. It doesn't have anything nice to say. You know, when you're talking about those things you've done in the past, remember them, but don't let it stop you from going forward and at least trying. But I really think just having that outside support, whether it's through a facility or a group, a group or someone in your family or friends that you can confide in. I think that just getting that first step out of the way is is a big, big deal.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because so many employers now have as part of their benefits package, you know, a confidential counseling and referral service. And it's a that is a, you know, can be a really good gateway for people at work if they don't know where to call. Right.

Sylvia Huron: That is a great thing. I was going to mention that as well. Our company has that. Things have changed, I think, in society, not to the point where I think they should be, but I think addiction along with mental health are some things that are coming more to the surface than they used to be. And there are a lot of possibilities for help, more than we had before. Or if you're just not, you know, if you can find that courage just to take that first step and ask. And the confidentiality, I think, is something everybody thinks about. I don't want to tell anyone because I don't want to say my name. I don't want anyone to know. And that in the beginning is normal, I think. You don't want anyone to know. And services through your employer, if you have them, that is a perfect segue. Way just to at least start the process and get additional resources that are available for you. Or if you know somebody in recovery, even talking to them is a good way to start. I think everybody has a different journey. Some things work for some people. Other programs may work better for someone else. You just have to find what's right for you. But just to get started is huge.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And, you know, you know, so can you, you know, we did, you gave us kind of a high level view of your journey, but can you share that turning point for you on your recovery journey and kind of take us from there to kind of sitting in your, uh, your son's apartment, uh, after dinner talking to me?

Sylvia Huron: So uh, you know, when I went into um into rehab it was a whole new obviously experience for me. I am a nurse and nurses are probably the worst for finding care for themselves but I was in a severe state of denial and I think that's common for most of us in recovery. And I was in the recovery center, rehab center for a month and graduated, you know, went through all the counseling. And as soon as I got out, I relapsed right when I came out again. And that was one of the really hardest points, I think, was having to tell Ian, my son, that I had relapsed because I was ashamed. I was mad at myself and felt like I couldn't do this. But I went back to the same rehab with my graduation. They all welcomed me back again, which was embarrassing as well. But, you know, I'm back. I'm not perfect. And I was there for another month. And while I was there, I had the head counselor who was counseling me. And she basically said to me, when you leave here, you need to go into a sober living. Well, I was in my 50s at the time, and I just thought, this is horrible. I'm at this age of my life, and I have to go to a sober living and live with other addicts and alcoholics for six months, and basically put a stop to my normal life. And I fought it. I fought it. I said, no way, I'm not going to a sober living. No way. I don't need that. And I remember she looked at me and she said, if you don't do this, you're going to die. You're basically not going to make it. And I still was in denial. And I remember that night I was in the bed and I went to sleep and I woke up the next morning and I was just looking at the ceiling thinking, okay, one more day in rehab, I can do this. But then I just felt this weight just come off of me and I just looked up and said, I'm done. I am handing it over to my higher power. And whatever, you know, for everybody, their higher power is something different. Different um for me and my soul I just knew I had gotten to that point where I accepted it I'm an alcoholic I'm an addict I need help and I'm giving I'm handing it over and I'm gonna stop trying to control things and I'll never forget I just felt this weight come off of me and I just I knew. From this point on, I can do this and I'm going to do it. And I went in right away to the counselor and said, I'm going to sober living. And it was the best decision I could have ever made ever. And I went into a sober living for six months, which is a pretty rigid program. You go to meetings every day, AA meetings. You have to report in. You're in a very structured environment with others who are in recovery as well. And it was six long months, but I honestly don't think I could have made it if I hadn't done that. And that was really the turning point for me. And when I came out of the sober living, I haven't looked back since then. I haven't. And I'm almost a little over almost six years sober now. And I honestly think that was the best decision I could have ever made. I actually got to the point where I could listen to someone who was telling me something and finally accepting it and bringing it in. And then from that point, when I came out of the sober living, I got a new job. I'm still at that same job. And then, you know, bonding with Ian has just been phenomenal. Rebonding with Ian, I would say, has been phenomenal from that point on. Yeah. But that was the turning point. 

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And, you know, Ian, we were talking in our last time we spoke that, um, you know, I think sometimes people don't think about the impact of addiction on the addict support network. And I was just kind of curious if you could share with us, you know, what it's like to watch someone that you care about deeply struggle to move into recovery.

Ian Huron: Well, yeah, I suppose I do. I can't offer a pretty intimate answer to that question, given that, you know, my mom is my mom and I'm her son and only child raised by a single mother. Um, so it's been her and I against the world for as long as I can remember, um, since I was like six and, uh, you know, that I understand that anybody's experiences with someone that you may know, love, um. And their battle with addiction can be deeply individualized but I would probably say that one of the best things I learned is that you have to not you you have to embrace the fact that you care about someone so deeply but also to um set healthy boundaries um you know as my mom was kind of struggling through rehab and really hitting that point of no return around the time she relapsed, like she just walked through, you know, when we got her into rehab, we had to write these letters to her and I had to really come clean with her as far as what our relationship was going to look like if she did not find a path to sobriety um and I don't want to call it an ultimatum because that's almost too black and white um it was more I wrote from my heart and I wrote about what I was feeling in my soul and really was just very upfront with her around like, look, this is where we currently stand. And if you continue to treat us, everybody who loves you and yourself like this, then there's not a world that I can envision where we have the same relationship that we did. It's not like I'll never speak to you again, but I'm not going to be the son that you thought I was or that I have been up until this point, because I can't, I can't keep sitting in this corner and watching you, um, you do this to yourself. If someone was struggling to, um, you know. Empathize or support someone who is really battling with addiction and cannot find a way to move into recovery. One of my biggest things that I would also say is to just really be an open listener. Mom would talk to me about what she was going through. And I would like to call out that we do have a phenomenal relationship. And I think it was one of the best things for her that she was able to, especially as she really moved through rehab, talk to me without judgment, be honest with me about how she was feeling, what she was going through and, you know, tell me from her heart, there had been a lot of lies and a lot of, you know, covering ups beforehand, but she was able to really share with me. And I think I finally got her to understand that no matter what she told me, I was still going to listen. And I would say that that's a huge thing to practice with someone who you may have in your life, whether it be a friend or a brother or a parent, just to have them understand that they can say things to you and it's not going to blow up whatever relationship you have. Just tell me the truth And I'm going to still be sitting across from you after you're done telling that. I think that's that's a huge one. 

Sylvia Huron: I would I would agree 100 percent. And just to kind of piggyback on what Ian said about that, it was an impact letters, what they call it at rehab. And I still read Ian's letter every year, every anniversary of my sobriety. I go back and read the letters that I got from my brother, Curtis, from Ian and our dear friend, Chuck, who was part of my intervention. And I think that's important. But I will say when I read that letter, it was devastating, but also it really brought me forward as well. I was able to come back to how important these people are in my life, and I can't lose them. Nothing could get in the way of those people that I love the dearest. And yeah, that was a big deal, Ian's letter. Again, I still have it, but I read it every anniversary.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, I think, you know, not just for addiction, but I think that ability to create the safe space for people that you want to, you know, I mean, really what you're doing is living in community with them, whatever the issue is, right? And I think that's a very, very, very powerful thing.

Sylvia Huron: Yeah, that safe space of knowing that, you know, because you do horrible things when you're in addiction and the throes of addiction. You steal, you lie, you damage. I kind of liken it to when you watch water going down a drain. It's like that circle that just goes down the drain and you suck everybody down with you. You'll take everything with you. You'll take jobs. You'll take friendships. You'll take, you just take everyone with you down the drain and, you know, you have to stop it somewhere. And when someone can say, look, you're not taking me down, but I'm here for you. I'm here for you. You can tell me anything, not going to judge, but I'm here for you. And that, that safe space is very important, extremely important. 

Ian Huron: There's something I wanted to just call out too because you had asked what it was like for me and um it's something mom said uh when she um she kind of hit that point or you you had asked um if if she had suggestions for someone who was actively struggling and you basically called out mom that it there was a point that first step of saying i need help uh admitting that to yourself first and foremost and then to those around you i had to have that moment as well i mean mom spoke at the top of the interview about how you know at the uh even in later stages of her addiction she was somewhat in denial i'll freely admit that i was too like as someone who was watching it from From afar, it took a long time for me to have a moment where I was like, this is a problem. For the longest time, you know, the fact was that mom was functioning. You know, she she she basically could continue to go about her life, despite the fact that she was still engaging in all these addictions. And it took a long time for me to say, I need help in the sense of like, I need help from outside her. Her and I, an institution, a family friend, a mantra, a belief, a fundamentalist-like system, whatever, whatever it might have been, I had to have that moment of, okay, we're going to have to go outside. Uh a locked room with her and i trying to hash this out and bring something else in that is going to instigate change because it's not just gonna i just can't i can't do this myself and i have to recognize this as an issue as well and i remember uh it was surreal having that moment as well like um it threw me for a loop because it's almost it's almost like i came to grips with it just as hard as she did. Um, so yeah, sorry. I, I, I wrote that down as you were talking about it, mom. So I wanted to not cheat. 

Marvin Cash: No, no, no, not at all. But I was going to kind of follow up cause I wanted to kind of dig a little bit deeper. Cause I think, you know, being a caregiver or a support giver is a, is a very, uh, very demanding role. It's demanding on your time. It's demanding on your emotional energy. And I was kind of curious about, you know, Ian, what did you do for you to be able to have the stamina to be as supportive as you wanted to be? And, you know, what are your thoughts for other people, you know, whether it's addiction or taking care of an elderly parent or whatever it is about how to, you know, help, but without, you know, inadvertently destroying yourself? 

Ian Huron: Wow, that's a really good question. Um, yeah, and it's fair. I may, I may be speak there. You bring up a good point as far as like, say you're looking at it through the lens of like someone who has to take care of an elderly parent. And perhaps there are not a lot of resources that they can call upon to help ease that burden. I am will freely admit that I am lucky enough that I was able to share some of the burden of mom's recovery, specifically with the family friends. She mentioned we have a very close family friend. His name's Charles. He helped when we put together our letters and took mom to rehab. And he drove down there with me to where it was down in South Georgia. Her brother as well came down there. And additionally, there were friends. That is my answer is do not feel as though you have to shoulder the burden of your loved one's recovery completely isolated because your loved one, even though they've probably burned a few bridges at this point, still has friends, still has family. They still have people that love them. All of us do. And if you go to those people and you explain that you are spearheading this person's recovery, and that's basically a fair amount of what I did, I'm taking an active role in it, but I need your help. This isn't a one-man show. I need everybody that can jump in and let my mom understand how much she's cared for, how much she needs to be healthy, how much of a problem this is, and how much she needs to embrace recovery. I need everybody to step up. And so many people came out of the woodwork to do so. And I would sing their praises for the next 50 years because it's an integral piece of how I was able to maintain it. Like you said, while keeping myself sane. Yeah, that's huge. Calling upon the resources that you can. And I would say if you cannot, because there are going to be those people, They might be listening to this and they're like, you know what? I got nobody. It's just me. I got to be my 80-year-old dad's house every day. And I got nothing else I can do, but be there every day. I would encourage you to think practically with your time and understand that there are ways for you to do things for your, your person, how you're taking care of them that also benefit you. I mean, um, I remember, God, this is getting deep in the cut here. Um, but, uh, I remember I, I made mom read, uh, a book that I was like obsessed with. I was reading it for like the third time and mom was having trouble really focusing on a lot at this point. Uh, cause she was deep in the throes of it. And I remember I laid in bed with her and read it to her, um, like page by page and love that book. I enjoyed being able to reread that book. And also I think it helped mom immensely. So like, you gotta find a way to, yeah, make it somewhat substantive for yourself as well. But honestly, I wouldn't, we wouldn't be where we are if, um, the people that love mom hadn't, hadn't stepped up and cowboyed up like they did big, big love to everybody. 

Marvin Huron: Yeah, I would also say too, you know, if you don't have someone or you feel like your network's not deep enough, there are support groups for, you know, whether you're taking care of elderly parents or you're the child of someone who's addicted. I mean, there are places that you can go to sit somewhere with other people that are struggling with the exact same things you're struggling with so that you don't feel like you're the only person in the world doing this. 

Ian Huron: Right, a huge call it is. Yes, encourage professional help a hundred percent because they they are out there. That's a great point.
 
Sylvia Huron: Yeah, Al-Anon is one, Al-Anon is another good support system for those impacted, um, you know, by family or friends in recovery. That's a good resource as well.

Marvin Cash: And I have one last question before we really start talking about the fun stuff, talking about fly fishing, right? So, you know, I wanted to, you know, we've kind of talked about each of your paths. And I was just kind of curious if each of you, you know, Sylvia, why don't you go first? And you just kind of share, you know, what you think are some of the best ways for someone to support someone on their recovery journey. And then, you know, Ian, you can pick it up and then I promise you we'll start talking about fly fishing.

Sylvia Huron: What? I, you know, I think what Ian said is, is just hits it to the heart. And he said a couple of things that I haven't heard him say, which, which really are very, it's emotional. I think, you know, again, it's very difficult. Difficult i i can see it now that i'm in recovery and my experience with recovery i lead a nursing group a recovery nursing group i i stay involved in recovery through our non-profit organization and i've had people come to me and say what's it like and i know somebody you know one thing we have never i don't think i've met one person that that i've talked to when i'm talking about recovery that doesn't have somebody they know that's in recovery or going through it. And, you know, the one thing I tell them, and it mirrors what Ian said, is you have to set the boundary because, you know, addict, alcoholic, we can be very, very manipulative. We lie. We do do anything when we're in addiction, in the throes of addiction. And I think to support someone, you have to understand too that you can say so many things like, you've got to get better, you've got to do this, you need to do this. But until they get to the point where they want it, I think it's very difficult to start. Like that person, you can only do so much as the person standing outside until that person that you're trying to help is ready to get help, is receptive and accept they're an alcoholic or they're an addict or that they are ready. And that may be, It is a different point for everybody, and it may be a long, very, very long road until someone comes to that point. Patience, listening, like Ian said, nonjudgmental. You have to be, I think. And you just, but you also have to save yourself. You have to realize I can only do so much from the outside and just be there and offer resources, you know, professional resources and be there, too. If you offer, I'll go to a meeting with you. I had people that came to many meetings with me, my friend, my family. It was it was a whole new world for them. But they were very, you know, oh, this place is interesting. You know, this AA meeting is really interesting. But they came, they came and they sat through it with me and were there. And at every anniversary, they're there. And, you know, I think each, but you do have to protect yourself as well as that caregiver, as that person who wants to help. And keep trying. Don't give up. Keep trying because they just might not be ready yet. And again, offer resources, you know, professional resources, find resources for them, give them the resources and say, you know, call this number, do this. You can't do it for them. They have to do it. But just being there, I think, is huge, huge. Yeah.

Marvin Cash: It's interesting, listening to you talk, it makes me think about the way I kind of talk to my boys about stuff. I'll tell them that I can't want it for them. But once they decide what they want to do or accomplish, I will help them move heaven and earth to make that happen.

Sylvia Huron: There you go. Exactly. Exactly. And I was very, very fortunate and blessed that I do have those type of people in my life. It made all the difference. 

Marvin: And Ian, what are your thoughts?

Ian Huron: Yeah, mom kind of hit it, um, in the vein of practical support. Like you can help someone with, you know, you could think about maybe, um, practical assistance with, like, tasks or responsibilities that might feel overwhelming for them. But being there, going to meetings, I went to plenty of meetings, uh, with mom. And similar to what she basically said, it was a new world for me. It was something I was very uneducated around, and I ended up educating myself about the world of recovery through those meetings and then my own research. Obviously, it was not something that I had even dipped my toe in before. And I would say that that's a huge thing. Educate yourself, even if you're not in recovery, your loved one is. So understanding the systems and the support groups that exist around it and the tenants of those systems and support groups is huge because it will allow you to understand what they're going through and also speak to it intelligently and to do things to recognize, like, we went to a meeting, and a guy was there that was like seven days sober, and everybody was like, "Congratulations! It's huge! Amazing!" And they were clapping for him and stuff. And I was like, "Uh, so we just celebrate milestones, no matter the size, because they're huge, no matter what." And it was there that I started really pushing to celebrate my mom's milestones and her achievements, be it 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. Now it's, she's crushing it, and she's in the years now. And every year on her sobriety date, we go out to dinner, just her and I, we talk a lot about her journey. We kind of revisit some stuff. And the first couple of years, it was heavy, but these days it's all smiles with a dash of heavy. But you celebrate those milestones. You celebrate the work that your loved one is putting into it. And that's huge. I feel as though anybody, it doesn't matter if you are 75, you've been sober for three weeks. If someone pats you on the back and they're like, "Hey, you're kicking ass," pardon my language, that it's still going to go a long way. People just want to understand that what they're doing is something to be proud of. And that absolutely is. Yeah. So, mom kind of hit it, but I would really hammer home, like, don't treat it as something that they're going through and they're driving in an F1 race and you're a big football fan. So, you're not going to bother tuning in. Like, you need to understand what the rules of the game are to properly help and support them.
 
Marvin Cash: Yeah. And, you know, the interesting thing is, you know, you are the one that suggested fly fishing to your mother as part of her recovery. And so I don't think we talked about this on the pre-interview call, but where did that come from? I don't know if you're like a lifelong angler or like you watch something on TV.

Ian Huron: But, uh, no, uh, no, I am not a lifelong angler. Um, I will be completely honest with you. So mom, uh, she dragged me fishing a lot when we were when I was a kid, and I was not a fan. I didn't like fishing like at all as a kid because I never caught anything, and I didn't like baiting the hook. I didn't like any of that. But I know mom, I knew mom had been fishing since she could hold a pole in her hand, and she was just a natural born angler. The whole reason that I suggested fly fishing to her is because I heard it was difficult. Like, I had heard that it was tough, and I was like, this will take up plenty of time. It's going to be something that'll just completely be tough to master. She'll have to sink a bunch of hours into it, and it'll completely occupy her brain. And boy, howdy, was I underestimating how hard she was going to go in the paint for that particular piece. Now that I fly fish, I know it's not as difficult as I thought it was. I just I had heard it was tough, so I was like, yeah, go try to fly fish, go see how you do over there, and we'll hopefully keep you occupied for a while. But that was the whole reason. I heard it was tough, and she saw that and took that as a personal affront to her ability it seems.

Marvin Cash: That's so funny because I mean, that's basically kind of probably one of the major attractions to fly fishing for me is that it soaks up all of that bandwidth. The other thing about it is, for me, it's a puzzle that I can't consistently solve because if I could, I would get bored, right? Yeah!

Sylvia Huron: You're exactly right, Marvin, you put that very well. And Ian, yes, he was, you know, he dropped that on me. He's like, "Mom, you should take up fly fishing." And I was like, fly fishing? Wow. Bing. And right off the bat, I thought, fly fishing? Where do you fly fish in Georgia? And how do I get involved into women even fly fishing? Like, I don't even know a woman who goes fly fishing. And, yeah, he dropped that nugget on me, and I ran with it. I really did. Ian, I always say fly fishing saved my life too. And Ian basically saved my life with fly fishing. But as soon as he said that, I jumped right into it. I went on a Google search, found the Georgia women's fly fishing, Georgia women's group here in Georgia, which is a phenomenal group for women who are starting out fly fishing and met the most incredible women. And the crazy thing was I was going to a nursing. I was attending a nursing supporting support group for nurses and recovery. And it was just a couple of days after Ian suggested fly fishing to me that I went to my regular meeting and we were sitting around and they said, everybody tell us something about something that you do in your spare time or what you enjoy doing. And the lady who went before me happened to be one of the co-founders of Reeling in Serenity who I'd never met, Jennifer Gilbert. And she said, I fly fish. And it was like, what? Here, Ian just mentioned this to me a couple of days ago. And now someone in my support group says they go fly fishing and they're part of Georgia Women's Fly Fakers. It was like, you know, like one of those moments where, okay, this is meant to be. And I started talking to Jen after the meeting and went to the first Georgia Women's Fly Fishing meeting with her at the next meeting. And from then on, just took their 101 fly fishing class, which I just loved. And I knew it was going to be a lifelong journey for me, fly fishing, just constant learning, constant challenge. And it has been. It has been. But that got me started on fly fishing. It was all Ian, all Ian. I couldn't be more grateful. I always say it's the best gift I've ever been given. And Ian gave it to me.

Marvin Cash: And, you know, it's kind of funny that we kind of were fishing for the same reason, but, you know, you know, this is really a question for both of you. What is it that you think makes spending time on the water so healing? Yeah.

Sylvia Huron: Wow. Ian, you want to go first?

Ian Huron: Yeah. Yeah. God, there's tons of reasons, right? I mean, I think it's getting more and more attention these days as like a beneficial therapeutic activity. But we've kind of touched on some of the reasons. I think you really said it best, Marvin. It's a puzzle that you almost can't solve. And if you were, you'd get bored with it. There's easy to learn, difficult to master. It teaches so much. Patience being the number one thing for me. I mean, I've grown so much more patience just from my time on the water. And for a long time, I've always practiced mindfulness meditation. I think that it is a form of mindfulness meditation in its own right. I also think one of the biggest things is it can be really enjoyed alone as a solitary activity and with a group and the social network around fly fishing is so strong. I'm not sure what inherently draws such good people to the sport but i don't think i've ever met another angler on the water that i haven't uh considered to be the salt of the earth um, yeah and uh additionally it really just kind of uh. It fills your hours on the water with such a lovely sense of achievement, whether even if you don't catch a fish for the day, the fact that you have mastered a new technique or if you do catch your one fish, it really is such a boost and reinforces a lot of like the positive behaviors that are associated with recovery. Right. Like, uh, you know, setting and achieving goals, boosting your own self-esteem. Um, and yeah, really just, uh, it's such a healthy distraction from negative thoughts and cravings probably. Um, yeah, I, I definitely, uh, I can't, I cannot sing its praises enough. Sorry. I went off on a exponential tangent there. Mom, please save me.

Sylvia Huron: Ian, you said it perfectly. Yeah, I am, I think yeah, and what Ian said about I think you said it great that you can do it by yourself and with a group it doesn't matter you still get so much out of it for me patience was the biggest thing just teaching teaching myself to be patient with myself. And also forgiveness. I've learned a lot about forgiveness. That may sound weird, but forgiving myself if I mess something up or I, you know, I have days when I'm just in the trees the whole time, like just undoing knots and losing 25 flies. And okay, so that day was not the best day, but that's okay. I'm going to tackle it on my next trip. But I also learned something every time, every time. And I did it by myself for a long time. When I first started fly fishing, I was so gung ho. I, I went every, every spare moment I had. And I went by myself because I wanted to, you know, master my cast and learn about the water. And then I watched 900 YouTube videos, you know, I think we all do. I sat on my couch and practiced knots, you know, that was Becca, my dear friend, best friend, friend's advice, you know, just. Watch YouTube videos and practice on the couch. I had line everywhere and not so, you know, but it took up my time and Ian was right. It took up my time and I, I just dove into it, but being on the water, I've always loved water. I fished all my life as Ian said, and I've always found peace on the water. And that road to fly fishing took me back to where I used to be. And I, I realized how much I enjoyed being on the water and how much I enjoyed fishing and what it did for me. Again, patience, forgiveness. And I just agree 100% with me in the fly fishing community. You included, Marvin. You know, we've just met so many people that are nonjudgmental, are supportive. reported, don't, you know, you can tell them whatever reason you came to fly fishing. And believe me, I've heard so many, whether it's a personal trauma, whether it's addiction, whether it's, you know, just a difficult time in their life, they found fly fishing and it brought them peace. You can just hear so many stories and reasons to what brought someone to fly fishing. And it's just that peace and calm and disconnection from, you know, the everyday pressures and work and all that other stuff. You just you kind of lose that when you're on the water and you're focused. And it's just there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I'm going to steal an eonism and, you know, talk about, you know, it's one thing to spend time on the water, but you went pretty hard in the paint and co-founded a not-for-profit, you know, with Becca Klein and other people. So, like, how do you make that jump, right? Because that's like a, that's another level of like, you know, craziness and fly fishing, right? 

Sylvia Huron: Yeah, you hit it right on the nose. Craziness is right. Right. If anyone says to you, let's start a nonprofit, don't think it's easy. But yeah, so my best friend, Becca Klein, we actually met through the Orvis fly fishing classes that Orvis puts on. And Becca was teaching one of those classes. And that's where Becca and I met and became friends. And I found out she was in recovery. I was in recovery. That drew us together. And Becca, along with a lot of other people, I have heard talk about starting, you know, a nonprofit where you can use fly fishing for healing for multiple things, trauma, addiction. So it's not necessarily a new idea but Becca has she's she's got gumption and determination and drive and she said let's do this and so we it was myself Becca Jennifer Gilbert and Ian the four of us got together at my kitchen table and Becca's like, let's do it. Let's start this thing. And we were all like, okay, let's do it. And so that's where it started a little over two years ago now. And it was the four of us really just said, let's do it and started it. Becca has a lot of experience. She works for Drive-In Riverkeeper, has worked for them for many years. So she has a lot of experience dealing with nonprofits. So she guided us and gave us all tasks and jobs to do. Ian's our IT man. He's our webmaster. then is our retreat coordinator and i did a little bit of everything to help support more administrative and finding resources and we just kind of said let's do it and so we started it it took a good year just to kind of get us on the ground to file for our 501c3 um uh status uh classification like it was it it was a lot of work um and then, we started talking about doing the retreats um and and it's been it's been a journey it's been a very very interesting journey but i'll let ian talk a little bit about it as well as how we got that um that level.

Ian Huron: Yeah, no, I mean, just to echo mom, I mean, I know that the true progenitor of the idea was Becca. She had wanted to do something like this for a long time where fly fishing is so inherently conducive to recovery, why not marry the two? And it really took us around that dining room table that night. I mean, I remember the night vividly where she said, "Guys, I think you're the ones to do it, and I think we can make this happen." And I did feel very much included due to my technical expertise because they were like, "We'll need a website. Ian can handle that. Ian, you can do all this stuff that we're talking about right now." And it did end up coming to pass as such. But you know, Mom is correct in that it took us a little while to get our feet underneath us because it was a great idea, but in other ways, it was a harebrained scheme where we had no idea what we were doing. We had Becca, who had some experience in the non-profit industry and luckily had some connections and some contacts. And also could offer some light around how you become a 501c3. And then what legal roads you need to tread to host things like retreats and make sure that your insurance liability is taken care of. And if you are going to accept donations, how do you go about it? How do you do it properly? So, there was a lot of fathoming it out in that first year, and we've all grown so much. And now we know it like the back of our hands. But it really has been quite a journey to get where we are today because these days, I mean, I won't say like we've completely gone gangbusters, but we have a following. We're putting on some amazing events, and it's honestly just a trip to go. And I just guided at a retreat weekend before last. And I still, I almost can't even believe it, how it affects some people that show up. And, you know, a lot of times the meetings that we held, people are moved to tears because it's so, it's just so powerful. Um, but yeah, no, sorry. I hope that answers the question.

Marvin Cash: No, no, it's an interesting thing. I mean, you know, it's, I think in talking about the guiding thing, I think, you know, it's an incredibly powerful thing to help other people, right? Not because it's being good, but like, I don't know, like, I know, you know, Ian, for me, you know, when I'm stressed out or really bothered, I generally try to not even, I try to stop thinking about myself and just go help somebody, right? And it is a powerful thing to see, you know, and I think, you know, as human beings, the most generous thing we can give is our time, right? So, you know, just to be there on the water with other people or whatever it is. Um, you know, I think, uh, I think it's an amazing thing, but yeah, it's interesting hearing you guys talk about starting it up, right? Cause you have all this energy and you've got to put all that energy into the flux capacitor.

Ian Huron: Yes.

Sylvia Huron: Yeah.

Ian Huron: Right.

Marvin Cash: And make it work. But, you know, I know you guys do retreats, but talk a little bit about, um, you know, how reeling and serenity supports people in recovery.

Sylvia Huron: So our retreat, um, we have the participants. I think you had asked before, too, like what you have, how can you participate and how can you join or, you know, take part in the retreat? So our retreats are for people who are in active recovery from substance abuse, men and women. And we do have a requirement that you have to be in recovery for a minimum of 30 days or have at least a sponsor support group that you are in active recovery, whether you're in a sober living, anything like that. And one of the reasons is because when you're in early recovery, a lot of things can happen, you know, health-wise. So we make that one of our key things, guidelines for being able to participate in the retreat. But as long as you meet those classifications, because we are not like a recovery center, we're there to offer support and to share fly fishing as a way to bring you some peace or something that you can do that is healthy once you are in recovery. So for participants, we are open for participants who meet those classifications and then as a volunteer, really the biggest thing is being able to relate to someone who's in recovery. You don't have to be a professional guide to be a guide on the water with a participant in our retreat, but you have to be able to at least talk to someone because the key thing for our retreats is when you're on the water and you have a guide with you, we kind of want you talking about your recovery and learning, you know, fly fishing as well, which is huge, but also being able to talk to that person about the journey that you've had. And we've been so fortunate. All our volunteers and guides are wonderful about that. And you don't have to be in recovery to be a volunteer for Reeling in Serenity. We just ask that for the most part, everyone who's involved in our wonderful board of directors, we have a phenomenal board, they all are not in recovery, but they have been exposed to someone who is in recovery, whether it's a friend, a family member, and they're very passionate about the project itself. And you know, it's not easy to volunteer your time. We don't work strictly nonprofit. We don't get salaries, anything. Everything is on our spare time. So it can be a little bit, you know, some work, but we all share it and we just have a phenomenal team. But we also give resources to our participants. Jennifer Gilbert made a booklet that we hand out to all our participants with resources that they can reach out to. We also have started an online line meeting, which has gone gangbusters. We just had our first meeting a couple of weeks ago. And let me just mention our additional staff real quick. We have Georgia Skuza, who does our social media. We have Will Henry, who is one of our coordinators, who also works on support and is working on a host manual for us. And then Jen, myself, Ian, and then our board of directors. And then we have other volunteers who help us as well, Jamie Eisenberg and Jim McLean, who's part of TU Trout Unlimited, that have also joined us to help support others in recovery. One of the other things we do is we do monthly outings, monthly fishing outings that we just started for people in recovery who want to come join us to fish. And then we also have a Facebook page where we also have a group where you can just comment and talk about recovery. And then our online meetings, as I said, we just started those and we've had a huge response to that. A lot of people who may not be able to attend a retreat but want to talk about recovery and fly fishing. So that's another way that we're trying to support people in recovery. And we hope within the next year to have our host manual available so that others in different states can host a retreat and we give them the blueprint for doing that so that we don't necessarily have to have a staff member there. So we're. We support it in the sense that we're there to kind of help you start to do something healthy for yourself and help you find peace, hopefully through fly fishing. That's really our goal.
 
Marvin Cash: Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because I know you've gotten support from a lot of great people in the fly fishing community. You know, gosh, I mean, you know the list way better than I can. But I know, for example, like Jimmy Harris at Unicoi. And I know that alcoholism touched his life. We talked about it when I interviewed him. But, you know, if you could kind of share with folks, you know, some of the brands, shops and people that have been incredibly supportive of your organization.

Speaker: 00:59:26
Sylvia Huron: Wow. We have been so fortunate. And I always think back to, I would encourage everybody to go to our website, reelinginserenity.org. And if you look at the staff and our bios, they're very short. But the one that always touches me is Ian because he mentions in his bio just the support from the fly fishing community and the support that they've given us. And again, I'll just say the fly fishing community has been just incredible. Incredible. We have had such great support. Jimmy Harris, Uniqlo Outfitters, has been phenomenal. He has supported us. He supports Becca in every step that we have done. He has just been unbelievable. And also in hosting retreats, sharing his water with us, letting us use it to have retreats. And then also Scott Lowe at Hatch Camp and Art Farm in Clayton, Georgia, where we just had our last retreat. He's hosted a retreat two years in a row. And, you know, we kind of look at it like they could be making money that day, you know, and they're giving that up for us, you know, to provide a place for us to have a retreat for the whole day. And we've just had phenomenal support. Also, River's Edge on the Soqui, Tammy Harris also has, you know, hosted retreats for us. Our first retreat was hosted at the River's Edge on the Soqui. That was phenomenal. She's always gracious with her time, the water, anything we need, she's there. We have had Israel Patterson from Uniquay Outfitters has been our photographer for events, also our videographer. He gives his time and expertise. We also now have kind of expanded because we have a retreat coming up in Montana this year. The 320 Guest Ranch in Montana is hosting a retreat. They're giving their time and resources for the day. We've had just, it's been phenomenal. The list goes on. Katie Kahn just volunteered to be a photographer at our last retreat. It's just amazing the support we've had. Just amazing. The list is long.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And you know, you want to kind of... I know you kind of touched on some, and I know you've got a big event. Because Ian and I talked about it the last time we spoke. You want to kind of maybe give us the next kind of three or four upcoming events you guys have going on that people can be on the lookout for?

Sylvia Huron: Sure. So we did have a retreat in Pennsylvania. We did have to postpone it because of the weather. It was not cooperating and the water levels were extremely high and unsafe. So we have the retreat in Pennsylvania that's going to be at the Delaware River Club. We're going to set a new date for that, so keep an eye on our website for the new date.
We also have one coming up in October in North Carolina, and that will be on the Mills River. We have DB Bar D Outfitters hosting that retreat for us. Zach Davis, one of our board members, is organizing that with me. Zach is extremely supportive and ready to help and organize that retreat. Then we also have a retreat coming up in September, like I said, in Montana, which will be our first in Montana at the 320 Guest Ranch. Then we have another retreat in Colorado. One of our board members, John Eatston, who is a new board member, is hosting that retreat. It's going to be at the Abel Ranch in Lake George, Colorado, and that's coming up on August 18th. Let's see, did I miss anything? No.
Ian Huron: I think you hit them all yeah.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, but you're also you've got an auction coming up, right?

Ian Huron: Sure. And I would call out that, obviously, that's another big thing: the phenomenal people who stepped up to support us. Last year, we hosted our first silent auction and we auctioned off some really amazing stuff from a lot of people who donated to help support the cause. We had fishing trips up there that you could bid on, spanning from California to Georgia. The entirety of the contiguous United States was covered, from fishing for sharks down in Florida to fishing for tarpon or trout in Oregon. There were also rod holders, paintings of fish, and other really cool items. We're doing it again this year and have already received some fantastic donations, including great trips and gear like reels, rods, pairing knives, flies, and more. We have that auction coming up, and I'll be honest, there were some killer deals last year. Some people walked away with amazing items for what they bid. We will post it on the website and include it in the newsletter. When it goes live, I highly recommend dropping a few lowball bids to see if you can get away with some fantastic deals.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. So two follow-up questions there. Obviously, I'm sure you're collecting things for this upcoming auction. So one, how should people reach out if they have something that they want to donate? And two, as my grandmother used to always say, she would give me a check for my birthday, and she'd say, always the right size and always the right color. If people don't have something that they can donate, but they want to give you some money or their time, how should they get in touch?

Ian Huron: Great question. You can do it all through our website or obviously any of the social media channels. If you want to reach out to us via Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, even, we're on everything. But the website is the biggest piece. We have a catch-all email address there on the website, info at reelinginserenity.org, if you have something that you want to ask us before you donate. But right at the top of the page on our main website is a donate now button that'll take you to a page where you can either donate monetarily or for an item if you would like to donate to something for the auction. And then yeah if you have any questions you know you can email us ping us via a direct message um we are open and we get all sorts of inquiries from all shades and And all four of us, the main staff members, myself, my mom, Jennifer, and William and Georgia as well, actually, we man the pages. So we're all the ones responding to you at any given time. Everybody sees them come in.

Marvin Cash: Got it. Well, listen, Sylvia and Ian, I really appreciate you spending some time with me this evening and particularly sharing a really personal story. And it's really special. Marshall, I appreciate you letting me share that experience with you. And, you know, hopefully I'll get to spend some time on the water with you guys soon. Take care.

Sylvia Huron: Yes, we hope so. Thank you, Marvin. Appreciate it.

Marvin Cash: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoy bringing it to you.
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