S6, Ep 97: Fly Fishing Wisdom and Industry Pet Peeves with Greg Senyo

Marvin Cash: Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by fly designer, author, Outfitter, and all around fishy dude Greg Senyo. We start in Gerard, Pennsylvania, and cover it all, from early mentors to building his brand, Schultz Outfitters, Montana Fly Company, and his latest endeavor, the Pack Mule 300. Greg is never afraid to tell you what he thinks, so strap in for a little unvarnished Senyo. 

But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcaster of your choice. It really helps us out. 

And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes. As I mentioned last time, I've known Zach and the team at Trout Routes almost before Zach had a team at Trout Routes. We all know streams are getting crowded, and chances are you're not the only one at your local access point. Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using Trout Routes Pro, with over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more. Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities that others will overlook. Up your game and download the app today. Use code artfly20 - all one word - for 20% off your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com. 

Now onto our interview. 

Well, Greg, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Greg Senyo: Thanks for having me, man. It's good to, uh, it's good hearing you boys. I hope you had a good day today.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it was good. You know, I've been digging out. I was slacking last week out fishing, so I'm kind of back in the saddle. But, you know, glad we were able to make this happen. And, you know, we have a tradition on the articulate fly, Greg, we like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Greg Senyo: Earliest? Oh, man. I have to go all the way back to being like, six, seven, eight years old, opening day at trout season, Pennsylvania, with my dad. We used to get up super early, go to the legion park in Girard, and have this community breakfast before you would get down on the river. And, you know, it brings back memories, all that kind of stuff. When you, you ask, what's your earliest memory? You know, the smell of salmon eggs in a jar, salted minnows, you know, guys putting grubs on, all that ultralight fishing for stock trout. You know, it's kind of the first place I fell in love with everything; Elk Creek was, uh, just the atmosphere of that traditional trout opener in Pennsylvania.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And you probably ate enough pancakes that you felt too sick almost to fish, right?

Greg Senyo: No, I was. I could shovel it in when I was little, man. I could never get enough. I was hungry ten minutes later.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. Link sausages, too, I imagine, right?

Greg Senyo: Oh, yeah, 100%.

Marvin Cash: And they weren't the turkey link sausages, just for the record, folks.

Greg Senyo: No. Oh, no. Oh, no. It was a giant pile of the good stuff.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so Greg, when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing?

Greg Senyo: You know, it was still, still really young. It's - I was lucky. I had, I had a best friend that - Jason Gregory is his name - that he was fly fishing. And he was kind of that first person I saw doing it, and I wanted to do that. And that's how I would say I got into it. And then I went up to, we had a buyer's fair at Girard and I bought myself a Martin rod/real combo from them. And, uh, when you got Elk Creek at your feet, it's full at that time it was full of Coho, Kings, Brown trout. You had steelhead. You know, it was like the best place you could grow up as a young kid wanting to fly fish.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's kind of funny, those kind of good old days where you were kind of turned loose as a kid, right?

Greg Senyo: 100%.

Marvin Cash: Right, like, and it's kind of funny, like, you know, no one was worried about you getting abducted. You know, all you had to do was kind of be home, you know, by dark. Right.

Greg Senyo: Well, that's a nice thing with small communities, too. You know, everybody's kind of spread out and live in different areas. You know, Jason used to live right above the hill on this side. I lived in town on that side of the creek, you know, so it's sun up 'till sundown, I mean, you were always a quick walk to somebody's house to get a ride if you needed one, so it was perfect.
04:55 

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's, uh, pretty cool. Does anyone kind of come to mind that you would say kind of mentored you on your fly fishing journey, and you can have more than one?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, you know, I didn't really have the traditional mentor, like, you know, use the term for, like I said, I think I would credit my friendship with Jason here. You know, he was always wanting to explore, and he was like, he had the same energy I did he wanted to fish every waking moment of our youth. Just how, how many days and how many hours can we spend out there? Especially during steelhead. That was that was pretty much the pinnacle point that set everything in motion for me. If I had to credit somebody, you know, I would, I would credit Clyde Murray, which worked up at Folly's End Fly Shop. He was a gem. You know, it's sad that he's not around anymore. He could have, ah, benefited a lot of people still today. But he took my fly tying skills to another level and gave me the motivation and I gave me some determination to go ahead and have the courage to do some of the different things I wanted to do. So those would be, you know, the people that early on, like kind of helped give me, you know, that energy to keep going.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I would imagine too, kind of given the time period, that was probably a truly kind of old-school fly shop, right?

Greg Senyo: Uh, oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're talking 500 sqft. You know, just a small little place right next to the river. And then Folly's End is a campground, but still is - it all exists today. You can still go to the fly shop, you can go to the campground and it's like one of those like out of storybook, you know, just that small little shack on the river, you know, surrounded by campers and tents and, you know, it's like the perfect place to go.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting too, right? So, you know, if we fast forward a little bit, you got absolutely sucked into the, uh, to the belly of the beast. And you've been a guide, you've been an outfitter, you're an author, fly tier and fly material designer. Can you tell us a little bit about kind um, of how you started sliding down that slippery slope?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, it's, you know, it's a long ride. You know, I look at it from how I see things get on today to how we used to do them back then. I mean, you know, it's, it started for me just being a young kid tying flies and I, for my local fly shops. And, you know, that goes to getting notice from authors that are at that time, you know, putting their books and their magazines and stuff inside the stores. So I got noticed by like Matt Supinski, John Nagy, some of those people. And then I started getting put in like Fly Fisherman magazine and their articles, their books. And it was, it was just really, as a young kid, it's just really cool to, you know, to see your stuff, you know, get noticed like that. 

And then from there, you know, I started guiding. I had an opportunity of, I don't give this gentleman that much credit and I don't know why, but Don Matthews, you know, kind of showed me the finer points of guiding. You know, he at least gave me a template that I can, you know, that I used and, you know, put my own spin on it and how I wanted to provide a level of service at the time. But I, you know, I was grateful for, for that kind of introduction in the guide world, you know. 

And then from there, what you get, you get endorsed by major companies. Like for example, I got, I got uh, endorsed by Orvis. I won the fly tyer of the year. I was given an opportunity to develop my own signature flies materials through Orvis and Hairline. You know, that helped me use my reputation to you know, pretty much put my name in every fly shop in the country. 

And, and doing that with my material branding and my just branding in general, I was able to form Steelhead Alley Outfitters. Then from there I started guiding out of Hustead . We took over guiding for many of the local fly shops and provided their steelhead guiding for them. And eventually, uh, we just brought all of our services in-house. Preferred to keep a higher level of service. 

You know, then, you know, you do the normal stuff. You continued lecturing, you know, meeting people, writing, consulting. I developed more stuff with inside the industry for several other companies. You know, like I did stuff with EP and Flymen. So, you know, I started to focus on the success of my team and my company and I kept it that way. Decided to try to lead from the front, set a good example. And I just never compromised with any of my competition. And then I ended everything with, I wrote my own book, which it's pretty rare these days to have a book like mine when best new book at icast and mistakes and all. So I was pretty happy with that and I stayed true to myself and I put in a ton of hard work and long hours with really very little sleep. And that kind of puts you into where you're at now and how hard do you want to push moving forward.

10:49 Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting too, right? Because that culture is certainly durable because I know you sold SAO, but Patrick and those guys are still running the same program the same way and being very, very successful.

Greg Senyo: Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, you know, all those guys, you know, all those guys, you know, everybody plays, plays an important role in anything that you do. And you know, Patrick, you know, has been with SAO since the beginning, so I really don't expect anything less from him. And not only that, they put their own new age kind of spin on it, and I think that that's been very welcome, too. So, you know how it is, you know, sometimes, out with the old, in with the new, right?

Marvin Cash: Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting too, right? Because you have a reputation for being mildly opinionated, right?

Greg Senyo: I'm totally opinionated.

Marvin Cash: And so I thought it would be interesting, you know, when I get someone who's been around the industry so long to kind of get their thoughts on, you know, direction of the industry, industry pet peeves and stuff like that. Is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners?

Greg Senyo: Oh, so we're. Okay. So if we're gonna do pet peeves, I'm going to scroll through a bunch of lists right here. You ready?

Marvin Cash: I'm ready.

Greg Senyo: We'll start at the top. So anybody born after Generation X, how's that? So anybody in this industry after Gen X? really don't, don't like me. So just so you know. Any, any type of, uh, any type of fishing shirt with embroidery below the shoulder. Any,  especially like cocks, chickens or shrimp. I mean, you just look like an asshole. I don't like that kind of shirt. You know, any, any Toyota Tacoma. I mean, tell me you're a fishing guide without telling me you're fishing guide, right? 

You know, so YouTube, you know, fly shop professors think they need to teach me something every day. We can't wait to see a video on Dude Wipes. You know, like do we really need it? But I'm sure somebody will show us how to use them. 

You know, I'm not a fan of social media handles. I call them warning labels. I don't like the public figure, board member, pro staffer, life tote. I encourage people to try to remember it's not a job interview, it's not a dating site, it's not an AA meeting. Just use your real name. It's okay just to be yourself. Treat it like an introduction, you know, I'd rather know who I'm talking to than some weird name or phrase or somebody trying to give me advice. on the first second that I notice you. 

So any, any type of fly tire that uses epoxy on dry flies, that is not art, that isn't a emerger. I'm just letting you know, any type of fly fishing content that comes out of Flymen Fishing Company. It is horrible. If you do any type of watching social media. I, uh, usually when I'm in the restroom, then it's that bad. 

So anyone old enough to need readers and using Barbie dolls in the slideshowing videos. There's a lot of red flags there. That dude's definitely on Epstein's list. 

So anyways, I can get as crazy with this as you want, man. I mean, I have lots of pet peeves just like anybody else, you know, I don't like people driving the left lane. I don't like people talking in the movie theater.  We can go on and on, man. We know how this works.

Marvin Cash: Well, I don't want to get you, uh, too spun up because we got a fair amount of wood to chop you. But it's interesting too, right? So of all the things that you've contributed to the industry, and we'll carve out the pet peeves, it's kind of like a Letterman's top 15 list, what are you most proud of and why me?

Greg Senyo: The most proud thing is just being able to provide the materials I've been able to do over the years and just seeing so many people that are using it, for how long they've been using it. I'm really proud of that. Number one thing is being what everybody else comes up with from that. So if I had to pick one thing that I would say what is the most proud, that would be it, you know? 

But, but I am proud of a couple other things as well. You know, I'm proud of the small number of lifelong friends I've made, you know, friends I've gained as being a part of this industry. And, I'm really happy I kind of stayed true to my character, like, you know, who I was as a person, a guide, as a tier, as a friend, as a part of my community. I listen, you know, I try to help where I can. I make myself available to anyone who seriously wants my help. But at the same token, you're going to, you know, if you ask me for advice, you better, like, you know, understand the kind of answer you're going to get. So, you know, it's just the way it rolls. 

So I'm proud of all of those things that I didn't have to, I didn't have to fake it, you know, I kind of just did me.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's funny you say that, because when people ask for my opinion at this point now, I almost feel compelled to say, do you really want, you know, some constructive feedback or you want me to just affirm you?

Greg Senyo: Yeah. You know, you know, it's almost fair that you have to do that. It just saves you a lot of time and, and not giving somebody good advice if they're not going to take it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And then they walk away, butt hurt, and you're a bad guy. So, but, yeah, it's, it's interesting, too, right? So, like, you know, I've listened to, you know, preparing for this. I always listen to folks's previous interviews and, you know, I know there was a point at which you realized you were spending too much time in the industry and you needed to shift your priorities. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little about, you know, what happened for you to kind of come to that decision.

Greg Senyo: I mean, the number one thing that that happens is you, you grow up. And, you know, I had a family, you know, and, you know, none of, you know, I look at, you know, everybody thinks, like, everybody's friends in the fly fishing industry, right? Like, I don't think they understand that like, most people don't even know most people's background. I mean, you learn some, but you don't know. You don't truly know who people are. You only know who they are through their fishing. 

So for me, having a family and having kids, you know, that kind of screws that light bulb in. And, like, that's the time where it's like, I have to shift my priorities. And the main reason for that is, like, I was, I was kind of raised in a broken family, you know. My mom had moved on while we were young. You know, it was, it was a very hard time for, for my brother and I, you know, but you take little pieces of that and you kind of carry it with you everywhere you go, you know, I just, I don't want to have, I don't want my kids or my wife or anybody to deal with that. You know, I don't want to miss my kids sports. You know, I kind of like being a homebody. 

You know, don't, don't take me wrong. I had a good childhood. You know, like, my family was excellent. They made, they made the best out of everything, you know? And my extended family is like a welcome, you know what I mean? 

So. But like I said, you carry little bits and pieces of everything with you, and, like, you start using those to compare, you know, for like, when you're raising your own kids. Like, you can only go by what you know, you know, or what, what has happened to you, you know? You have your own story to live, your own mistakes to make, and your own victories to celebrate. So you just got to jump in, two feet.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. You know, it's interesting, right? Because, I mean, I think, you know, having those situations in your childhood, you know, if you can use them as motivation and drive. Right? Like, you know, I had some things kind of in my childhood and it's kind of like, you know, to your point, like, I wouldn't want my boys to go through any of that, but it's made me who I am. And I don't know how I would be sitting here talking to you today in the way that I am if I hadn't gone through that stuff.

Greg Senyo: No, it's 100% right. And, you know, in others key point to look at this with your kids is like, to be really a good fishing guide or to be invested in this industry, like, you got to be 100% in, you know? And I, I wasn't, you know, kind of willing to not be able to show my kids, you know, archery, backpacking, hunting, camping, you know, the other things that, you know, I kind of had to give up to stay fishing, right? You know what I mean? You know, so those were also, like, contributing factors on, on wanting to dial it back, start spending time and you know what? I'm enjoying myself more. My kids are enjoying themselves more. I don't miss anything, you know what I mean? So I'm not, I'm not disappointed by that.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean, gosh, we could have a complete podcast series on parenting and raising kids. You know, Greg, I was kind of wondering if, you know, kind of in this whole shift, you know, did you ever kind of hit a wall or kind of feel like a line was crossed that kind of kept pushing you in a certain direction?

Greg Senyo: Absolutely. I mean, you know, I hate to say it, I. There was a time where I kind of let other people, you know, kind of influence, influence kind of what I was going to do or what I was going to say. I just don't allow that anymore. But, you know, when when people and companies and stuff don't, you know, didn't appreciate your investment any longer, you know, I just. I didn't. I didn't want to feel that way. You know what I mean? I was tired of being, being angry at that. And, you know, the years of loyalty and service, I felt like they weren't appreciated. 

And, then you started seeing the devaluing of industry talent in favor of the, uh, theatrics and the fakeness you see on media, like, it just wasn't a path I was willing to take. You know, you're just continually hassled by, by companies and customers to feed them content daily. 

And, you know, you know, like, I even was told that I'm in risk of losing my value and my reputation, you know, over all the years of work, all the hard work, effort and everything else, I'm going to lose that if I don't stay relevant on social media. Could you guess what my answer to that was?

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it probably starts with an f, right?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, it was fuck you, straight up. That was it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, but, you know, that was it. Ah, yeah, but, you know, that's an interesting thing, Greg. Cause, I mean, I see this, you know, in the industry where, you know, a lot of people are - well, first of all, I would say a lot of these guys could rule the world if they would return phone calls and emails. Like, that would be kind of point number one, right? Which takes us back to being a gen xer. Right. 

But I would say, right. You know, one of the things that it's interesting to me is I think, you know, I think a lot of people start in the industry and they're really young, right? And so they're hustling, right? Like, probably like you and I did when we were, like, hustling as kids, cutting grass and paper routes and all that sort of stuff. And, you know, they don't want to say no to anything. But the problem is you fast forward 20 years and you put the time in and they still interact with people like they're 18 years old.

Greg Senyo: Yes, very much. Right?

Marvin Cash: And so it's like, very much so. They feel like they have to do everything, and they never, to your point, stop and say, why am I doing this this way? If I, you know, I am more valuable, like, you know, why am I valuable? It's because I've invested in myself. Right. You know, it's not because I'm posting stuff prolifically on social media. Yeah, dude, I think it's a fascinating thing. I mean, and so, you know, those are, you know, it's always interesting, right?

You know I always say the fishing is just the bicycle for the interview and the conversation, but there's a lot of, like, life stuff there, right? And so, you know, kind of curious, you know, how you kind of put that all together and made it work for you?

Greg Senyo: I mean. I mean, you, you identify, number one, that, you know, you don't like this stuff, right? This, this extracurricular stuff, that kind of got added to the fishing world. So, you know, for me, I just quit listening to people. You know, I don't, I don't walk around lacking self confidence. You know, I work, which, many know, maybe some don't, but I was a police officer over 20 years as well. So, you know, you kind of get to the point where you've been through enough that you can, you start making choices, live with consequences. 

You know, it's, uh, uh, you know, it came down. I just wanted to do me, even if it meant doing it alone. Like, I just didn't have the stomach to, to be a part of the circus. And, that's how I made it work for me. And then I started doing all the other things.

And then when I was fishing, you know, I was starting to enjoy fishing again. You know, like when I tie flies now I tie them  because I, I want to tie and I enjoy it, and I'm going to use them for something, you know what I mean? I'm not just tying to have a whole bunch of them laying around anymore. So I get way more, way more enjoyment out of it, you know? 

And then, uh, I do, you know, I do other fishing things, too. You know, I fished gear now a little bit, which I gave up for all those years of fly fishing, you know? And I look at it this way, as I'd rather be happy in a well rounded angler than a miserable fly, miserable flying. You know, there's a lot of miserable fly anglers out there. Like, I don't, like, you know, I'm just, if you could see me right now, I'm sticking my foot out, like, get away from me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't want to be around that, you know what I mean? 

So, you know, and then not only that, you know, like, you know, everybody I see, it's like everybody's looking for some type of personal challenge. You know, I hunt more than I fish, and I do this in places my phone don't work. Go do something where you got to think for yourself, where the actions of your day or the success, what you gauge the success of your day is in your hands. 

You know, that's the one thing I love about hunting versus fishing right now, is fishing, I felt like I was rewarded every day. I could get a fix every day. Even a bad day of fishing, I was successful. You know, hunting, you could go weeks, months. You make decisions because it's based on life and death and it's a food source, and there's other things at stake, you know what I mean? You know, it's more adult for me. It's the way I look at it. It's more satisfying for me, mentally, to do those kind of things, you know, helps me block out all the noise, you know? So that's how you make it work for you.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting, right? Cause I guess one of the ways I say something similar is, you know, if you're truly lucky, you get to pick the hill you're gonna die on.

Greg Senyo: 100%. 

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I think the interesting thing, too, is, um, and you probably saw this is when you started being you and not being who people wanted you to be, that you probably became even more successful.

Greg Senyo: Well, if I'm being fair on that question, like, more successful in the sense of I was a much happier person. I had less, like I said, noise when I started doing everything how I wanted to do it, and not taking in consideration anybody else, you know what I mean? Or, you know, made it about my team and family and my atmosphere above all else. Right? You know, that was a lot easier than trying to deal with what everybody else wants you to do. So if that's what you mean by being more successful, I agree, because, you know, it made me more focused, made you happy. And, like, when you're happy, you're better. You do better on all fronts when you're happy.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Right? So I've got, my oldest son, as a rising senior in college, and talking about, like, you know, find that thing that fulfills you, and it will make your days a whole lot easier, you know?

Greg Senyo: Yes, absolutely.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Greg Senyo: That's - I wish I would have found that younger, you know, for me, I wish I. It's so funny, as you look at this whole thing, like, when you're. When you're young and you're getting into this, you're, like, super excited. Your energy level and your stoke level are, like, super, super high. Right? And even as you get older, you don't lose that. You don't lose that enthusiasm. But you do lose, like, that, that iron wall you put up. You know what I mean? 

You just don't have the youth, as you get older, to continually want to fight the same kind of battle over and over and over and over again. So if I could go back, go back to the day, that one point where it's, like, took the red pill versus the blue pill. Right. If I could go back to that point, you know, there is a part of me that would take the other pill and just keep fishing for fishing. Just keep it fun, you know, not make it part of my job or my livelihood or, you know, keep it exactly. You know, what it was when we all start and decide that we want it to be more, 'cause it's a hobby, you know, it's something we love to do to take away all the pain from all the hours of work. So anyways, you know.

Marvin Cash: And so, you know, of the many hats that you wear, one of the hats is you're the, general manager at Schultz Outfitters. And, you know, just like some folks, um, you know, may not have known that you were a cop in your prior life. They may not know how you and, you know, Mike, got hooked up and how you ended up at SO.

Greg Senyo: Well, many, many moons ago, I used to go up and do fly time classes at Colton Bay, which was just outside of Ann Arbor. And Mike was the was the store manager there. So, you know, we kind of hit it off first couple times we ever met. And over time, I asked, I asked Mike m if he was willing to come down and guide for me and at Steelhead, at Steelhead Alley outfitters, you know, for the springs. And, he did. He would - he came down for years to help us run our guiding and stuff over there. And, you know, eventually he was like, hey, man, you know, like, someday I'm going to open a store. And he's like, if I ever, if I ever do that, would you, would you help come run a store with me? And I made that promise. And, you know, you know, like, our, our friendship had grown to be, you know, almost like family. So here we are. You know, I'm at the shop.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, uh, how many years ago was it when you first met Mike?

Greg Senyo: Oh, well, that's like putting a guy on the spot, you know, it's like my wife asking me what the date of our anniversary is. Gonna check my calendar for that. Early 2000s.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Greg Senyo: Somewhere around there. Yeah yeah.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Greg Senyo: Long time. You know, it's been 20, 20 plus more years, maybe a little longer.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, that, particularly as you get older, that's super cool. And, you know, one of the things that really struck me, I had a chance to, you know, meet you in person at Bobbin’ the Hood earlier this year, and you kind of, to your point, you see the Internet stuff, but then you have to be in the store to see the real stuff. And I was absolutely blown away. I mean, I've been in tons of fly shops, I fished with lots of people, but I was really blown away at the culture, inside Schultz Outfitters. And I was kind of wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you and Mike and the rest of the team have done there that makes you different from other shops and outfitters.

Greg Senyo: I think you said it right there. It's, team is everything. Our whole team can walk the walk. We have everything that we need to have a successful business.  Some of our guys are college educated in business. We have good fishing guides. We have great instructors with fly tiers. We have innovators, developers, entertainers, travelers. And most importantly, we're all anglers. Like, continually on the water, you know, or have some kind of part to play, you know, related to fishing. So, you know, that, uh, that alone eliminates 90% of the fly shops that are out there. They don't have that. Okay? 

And then on top of that, we just focus on us. We focus on our local fisheries. But we excel everywhere, you know, we are about our warm water fishing opportunities. How many fly shops do you go to that has a focus on smallmouth, carp, musky, pike? You know, it's not most of the places, when you associate a fly shop, you think of trout. We can do that. We do do that. But it's not, it's not our main focus. 

So I think, I think that's why a lot of people, you know, come visit us and they trust us, is because we're, we're very honest. We're super hard working. You know, the customers that we tend to deal with are fishy people in their own right. You know, like, these guys are traveling. They're doing things. They're going all over. They're fishing with talent across the country, if not, across the globe, you know? So you thrive in that kind of atmosphere. 

And then even the new people that are walking through the door, like, most of the ones that we see, they have a desire to become those type of fishy people. So we're lucky from that standpoint that we have that kind of customer wanting to come see us. And, you know, we're just, we focus that we're going to continually maintain a high degree of personal education and expectations when it comes to the store, you know. 

And just. Just think of all the things I just said, you know, I'm just highlighting our team and, like, what we can do on our storefront. We don't even have an online store yet. And we're pretty much keeping up with everybody else. Just think when we do open the online store and you know what someday, shortly down the road, that's going to happen. So we're just, we don't need that bullet yet where we're saving it for when we're ready and choosing to be more of the place that you should want to talk to us. You should want to ask us questions, you should let us help you pick out new gear. You know, that's, that's what all the years of hard work have given our local community. And that's the one thing I love about being a part of this this whole industry is this aspect right here.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting because, I mean, I, you know, I would say Schultz Outfitters is probably one of the few places that I would buy natural materials from sight unseen and trust that I was going to get what I wanted when I opened the envelope.

Greg Senyo: Well, yeah, because we're going to hand pick it for you.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I mean, in the team things impressive. I can remember, gosh, I mean, it's been, in the early years of the podcast, I interviewed Mike, and I remember one of the things that was really memorable from that interview, I mean, because it's probably been five years ago, four years ago, was, you know, his desire for the store to be successful was because he wanted to take care of his guys, right? And he wanted him to be able to have a house and raise their families and be in the community. And I thought that was like, you know, unusual. And, I mean, to our point, kind of some of the things we've talked about the industry being something that's kind of rarer and rarer today, right?

Greg Senyo: Well, when you have that kind of leadership, why would you not want to want to work for somebody like that? Somebody that's going to have, you know, a general interest in his own people. Like, there's a, there's a lot of opportunities to work for people that aren't like that. And I can attest to it because I, I've worked with a lot of those people before. You know what I mean?

Marvin Cash: Yeah. I'll compare tattoos with you the next time we get together.

Greg Senyo: There you go.

Marvin Cash: So, pulling back to the tying, you kind of mentioned some of the companies, at the beginning of the interview, but you've had the opportunity to work with the top tier time material companies in the industry for the last 20 years. I was curious if you could tell us how that started and what it was like working with each of those companies.

Greg Senyo: I mean, just so you know, like, it was a blessing to be able to be granted a lot of these opportunities. And, you know, that first opportunity was, like I said, I was endorsed through Orvis, and I had an idea for materials. And, uh, Sean brilliant was working in their development, uh, department at the time, and he, uh, made an introduction for me, uh, with Marcos at hairline. That's kind of what started everything for me, having the opportunities. And you saw laser dub and all the numerous other opportunities for material come out after that. And, like. Like I said, you know, not to be, you know, misleading or anything. It was. It was a little bit of luck, I guess, you know what I mean? The hard work, all that stuff was there. But, you know, I was lucky that I had somebody willing to make an introduction for me, and that's how I was able to, you know, kind of build my brand moving forward.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. It's kind of like getting rebounds in basketball, right? You got to stay around the rim.

Greg Senyo: 100%. Yeah, that's a good. And I like that. I'm going to use that.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. The, so you started out with hairline. Who are some of the other folks you've worked with in the industry? And we'll talk. We'll wait, and we'll talk about Montana fly company in a minute.

Greg Senyo: No, that's great. I, you know, I've helped EP, Flyman Fishing Company. But my primary, obviously, was working with Hairline. I think, you know, we spent almost two decades putting together some amazing materials, so it's - and it's not hard to do. So when you work with such an amazing group of people. Like, so it's, like I said, it was a privilege to be a part of that.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And the great thing is, they're almost completely set up in Michigan now, so you'll be able to go have dinner with Marcos anytime you want to. Right?

Greg Senyo: Yeah. They just moved to Michigan. They're - knowing how fast they move, they are probably up in operational at this point.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, you know, kind of fast forward a little bit. You know, you currently are working for Montana Fly company, and they were all over the place at Bobbin’ the Hood, and I was really impressed that the new owner has aggressively kind of moved into, you know, predator flies and tying materials. And I was kind of curious because I didn't have a chance to talk to him. You know, how did that come about? And, you know, how did you get involved in the racket?

Greg Senyo: So I got, I got approached by Phil Cook, who was a regional fishing rep and a good friend of mine. And, he had reached out on Montana Fly Company's behalf of, like, hey, you know, there's some opportunities out here and, and a new owner and just really fishy and highly aggressive group of guys that want to go after it again, you know. So we were able to work out a contract, and, and I've got, you know, you met Justin just like I did at Bob, and, and, you know, it's. He's more my age, you know, our age bracket. He's a straight shooter. He's likes to get his hands dirty. You know, I can't. I. I can't ask for really anything more. Right? Like, working. Those are the kind of guys I like to work with is ones that are really just getting the group with you, you know? 

So, like I said again, it's, you know, somebody bringing an opportunity to the table to, you know, to take your talents and push them to something else, you know? So I think you're gonna, I think you guys are gonna be happy with everything you see, we've already launched one material, but we'll have a whole bunch more coming in the future here.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. You know, it's interesting, right? Cause, I mean, I'm always kind of watching stuff, and I would say, you know, not just the move, like, you know, I can remember seeing the Golden Fly Shop display, and they used to have an old school, you know, like, lunch and meat freezer from a grocery store that was full of streamers. But the thing that kind of blew me away at Bobbin’  was, you know, everyone that's got patterns with them, you know, they had a small, you know, it's almost like a, like a large, you know, flag that was on their table that said, I'm with Montana Fly Company. Right? And then just the innovation of the new materials. But you could tell that there was something different about what was going on than you would see if you went to a trade show and walked around and looked at six different material companies.

Greg Senyo: Oh, I mean, well, not only that, I mean, look at, like we said, the big streamer flies, right? So, I mean, Russ Madden's now with Montana Fly Company. I think Matt, uh, Gracie's got his flies there. So, you know, you add that to Kelly Gallup and, just the Midwest talent that's a part of that stable. Like, I feel like, I'm getting to work with people I know already, you know? Like your neighbors. Right? Getting to work with your neighbors, it's. It's kind of. It's kind of really nice.

 You know, there was, there was a long time where, you know, I used to get really disappointed because, like, all my, like, all my buddies were all working with different, different companies, right? And, like, there was, like, us, like, seemed like there was this always this unwritten rule, like, you can't work together. You can't. Or you can't highlight somebody else's hard work or the materials or their stuff because you worked for somebody else and they offer something similar. Like it's you know, I feel like everybody being under this label, I don't I don't feel like we go through that often anymore. So I kind of appreciate those kind of things, too, you know? Especially now that, like, we're not childish now, right? You know, it's that it's the way it felt back then. It's like, really, like, really. This is what we do. This is how we act.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. It's the it's the Ghostbuster problem. Right. You can't cross the streams.

Greg Senyo: Yes, exactly.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Greg Senyo: But you know what? Now you're starting to see a lot more of that now, and, you know, and I'm hoping that continues. I think that that will solve a lot of problems, you know what I mean? So, you know, because, I mean, let's face it, I mean, like, most of the innovations and stuff coming out today, they're all merit. They're all pretty good. There's a lot of exciting stuff coming out across the board. I mean, that, I mean, just technology alone and clash fishing has already pushed itself into a whole other category. I mean, even so much like, I'm digressing, you know, I'm pushing more glass and old reels that I find in garage sales and stuff like that, versus, this high tech stuff. Right?

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's interesting, too. Right? So, for folks that don't know, can you, Greg, tell us the products that you currently have released with Montana Fly Company?

Greg Senyo: So, we just released the, uh, matte satin chenilles. We did both, like, a cactus and, like, a polar type chenille. And, it's the first - it's matte. Okay. So there's, like, no reflection to it whatsoever. It focuses more on color. So it's kind of the first of its type. You know, most chenille, as you see, are flashy or opaque or, you know, got some kind of UV and stuff to it. These are truly bland, matte, you know, so you think low water, brown trout flies, you know, big, big pike and musky fly, all that kind of stuff. Like you can, you can really dig into it with this kind of chenille. I'm excited about it. So it's, it's gaining a lot of ground, and it's also hit the saltwater market very well.

Marvin Cash: Very, very neat. And can you share with us anything that's kind of in the production pipeline that people can be on the lookout from you?

Greg Senyo: Well, I mean, we're going to have a few new dubbings and there's going to be some other chenilles and brushes and stuff like that down the road. No, I think there's going to be a lot coming in the future, based on everything we've already got in the pipeline. I think it's gonna be worth the wait. You know, we're just getting started. I don't want to pump something that, you know, could come out later than something else, you know what I mean? So, you know, but there will, there'll be a lot, and I'm excited about it, and you should be too. So if you like to tie. I know it's all stuff I like to tie. This is stuff I want to use. Yeah.

Marvin Cash: Well, there you go. Well, you know, shifting gears a little bit, you know, we were talking about, you know, how you started your family and you kind of thought to kind of reprioritize things. And we were talking before we started interviewing you also in the last, I don't know, two years, had a couple, I guess what Generation X people would call check engine light moments, and I was wondering if you could share those with us and kind of tell us how that kind of reinforced your path.

Greg Senyo: Well, I mean, a couple of years ago I had that, you know, when that second strain of COVID came through, I got that and it ended up, I ended up getting pneumonia and blood clots at the same time. So it was a pretty scary, scary time there for me and my family. You know, I spent like eleven days in ICU and it wasn't looking good. And then, you know, I pulled through and then I was on home care for another month and, you know, but we made it, right? We made it through that one. 

And then, uh, you know, it forced me to get in a little better shape. And I, uh, went what, elk hunting in Montana. I went deer hunting. And January 1st the following year, and I had a pretty significant heart attack, where I had to have a stent placed immediately, and then I had to go back and get two more placed. So it's really kind of hard to ignore all the things that are trying to kill you. So, yeah, you, you definitely reevaluate. Like, I guess time and mortality are definitely a big part of my thought process anymore.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. It's interesting, right? Because I'm a little bit older than you, but it's kind of. You get to a point where it's like you try to kind of ignore it for a while, but at some point, you can't deceive yourself that you've got more tomorrows than yesterdays, right?

Greg Senyo: I think that way every day. There's no more, like, waking up and kind of taking the day for granted. I mean, I hate that I have to feel that way, but there's some, there's some solace in it, too. You know what I mean? Like, you make sure you tell your kids what you need to tell them at night. You tell your wife that you love her and stuff like that every night before you go to bed. So, you don't just assume, you're granted tomorrow, but, I mean, I hope I have a whole bunch of tomorrows left. As many as possible.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. I would also say, too, though, that, right, if you use it the right way, right, you know, it gives you a lot more focus to get done what you want to get done.

Greg Senyo: Yeah. There's such an urgency to get done with what I want to get done, you know? And, you know, it's like you say about, like, prioritizing and reevaluating, and, I mean, you know, there, you can't take for granted that your mind thinks a different way. And, like, what you had, you know, the five year plan you had is gone. You know what I mean? You know, the previous plan is gone. You, you kind of. What can I do to, you know, for me, what can I immediately do to rectify this problem? And that's kind of how I've lived since all this.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and speaking of that, you know, you recently completed the, Pack Mule 300 charity hike. You want to tell us, like, what on earth made you decide to do something like that?

Greg Senyo: Sure. So, yeah, for anybody that's not aware of that. So, you know, what I did was I hiked from my house here in Michigan to my hunting camp in the Allegheny National Forest. And the reason for it was to raise money for the high school lacrosse teams. And both my sons play lacrosse, so I really wanted to set an example of hard work and kind of help them find that, another gear within side themselves and what they can accomplish. So that's why I did what I did. And I will tell you right now that I will probably never attempt that again. It took me to pretty much my breaking point.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, it's, yeah, you were telling me, like, you know, hotter than you thought. Less water, right?

Greg Senyo: Oh, I had to reevaluate everything, you know, like, you know, I mean, I can't even. It's, you know, the mental game, the hydration, like, you know, help the whole nine yards like you're seeing put the miles in. But like, you, I had, if I didn't have the help I had, I would have never made something like that. You know what I mean? And, you know, when you're trying to set an example for a bunch of kids, like, that's what's kind of driving you to, to get it done. Like, you know, I mean, you know, it's a long ways. I wanted my kids to not have an excuse, right, to fail. 

So if I looked at it as, like, if I failed in something like this, like, you know, I set an example that, you know, it's okay to quit. I just didn't want to do that. I'm just not that kind of person, you know, I was. If it killed me, it was going to kill me. And, uh, you know, part of something like that, too, is, you know, I just told you about the heart attacks and the COVID and all that stuff, and, you know, I don't like things telling me what to do, which I'm sure you've heard that before. I kind of had to prove to myself again that I'm, like, not just gonna belly up and die, you know? So I had to push myself to a little another level of unsureness. Does that make sense?

Marvin Cash: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you're trying to be better every day than you were yesterday, right?

Greg Senyo: Sometimes I'm still. I'm still. I'm still bad. Just so you know, I'm still a villain. 

Marvin Cash: Yeah., you're one of the bad boys of fly fishing, but, I mean, you know, pushing yourself and kind of. I don't know. I mean, it's interesting, right? And there's, you know, this whole parenting component. Like, you know, you can't tell your children how to live their life and not model that behavior right. That's a huge thing, I think. Right?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, it's. It's an important thing.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. I think also not expecting other people to fix your problems. Right. Like, we don't have enough money for our lacrosse team. Well, how are we going to fix that?

Greg Senyo: Yeah. And, I mean. I mean, this is, you know, I think, you know, we've talked about this before, but, like, my idea of charity is a lot different sometimes than other people's idea of charity. Like, I'm never going to be the guy who goes, knocks on people's doors and asks for money. I'm never going to be a guy that stands at a gas station, tries to sell somebody a discount card. You know, I'm not going to be the kind of guy that just organizes other people to do hard work for them, you know, to get credit for doing charity. I'm just not my style. 

I want to be responsible for putting the work in. And, you know, most importantly, when you're doing charity, you're not supposed to get a personal benefit from it. So there's no personal benefit here for me. Like, it's truly charity. It's benefiting these kids in every way, not only in the way of monetary, you know, having extra money that they need to have a successful season, but it's showing them an example of hard work and determination. It's showing them some mental toughness where they got to learn to win the battle of yourself. You know, it's showing them the importance of friendship and teamwork, you know, because I had people helping me along the way, you know? You know?

And also helps you handle the pressure, you know, the pure negativity that we always see, you know, shows them that they don't have to validate that, that they can defeat it, you know? You know, I hear it. I'm doing charity, right? And there's always that one or two people out there that are like, oh, yeah, he's not really doing it, somebody's, somebody's, picking them up and moving them here. There's, somebody's doing this, you know, anything to, you know, make it so you, you know, you come out the bad guy. Right. You know, there's always. It just, like, it's a great example still to show the kids that to. For my kids to see that, like, that, you can put - it doesn't matter how much hard work you do, how much stuff you put in, how much effort you put in for somebody else, like, you're never gonna make everybody happy. 

So, I mean, all that kind of stuff was there. Every element of what, uh, I wanted this to be, you know, what was there. And then, like I said, you know, there was some of it - my benefit was, I realized I wasn't gonna die tomorrow. All this medical stuff, I can kind of overcome it, you know? And then you kind of learn who your friends are, right? You kind of learn who the kind of people like, I was really shocked at some of the people that came to my aid. A lot of them strangers, okay? So, you know, the people that I thought would jump in and walk a few miles, like, they didn't show up. So, you know, it's, you learn a lot about,  yourself and the people, people around you by doing something like that.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. But, you know, back on the kid thing, like, you know, in this day and age. Right. You know, kind of, you know, tying back to the Generation X thing, like, you know, seeing that life's not fair, right, is a super powerful life life lesson. So you don't walk around waiting for some magical something to happen for you. But then I also think the other thing, too, and, you know, particularly, you know, raising kids. But I think true in life, it's like, you know, well, I can't do that. I was like, well, how do you know? Because you haven't tried, right? And so, you know, it's kind of funny because, I mean, I had that sort of mindset, particularly, a large law firm practice, which is we were going to put the flag on the hill or everyone was going to be dead, right? Like those were the two options, right? We're going to die trying or we're going to put the flag on the hill. And that, you know, not everything in life has to be that way. But I think learning that lesson about, you know, to your point, like, how do you know what you can do until you try to do it?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, I agree. And that's, I mean, that's kind of what that this whole thing was, was, you know, it's almost like life in ten days, you know, if, there was, there was some kind of an emotion, a problem or a success or, you know, a bad thought, like every, every minute of that journey for ten days.

Marvin Cash: Yeah.

Greg Senyo: You know.

Marvin Cash: So, uh, that's your second book title.

Greg Senyo: Yeah. See, that's the thing is, I don't know if I have it in anymore, to sit in it, sit and write my own book, you know, to have another, to do that again. I just, I just, I don't really. I don't even think it's worth it. That's me. I'm just saying, you know, like, as much as I thought about doing another book, I think I'll, you know how you said die on the hill and plant the flag? I think I'll just leave it there.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And then also, too, you get to a point where, you know, you don't have as many things to prove anymore.

Greg Senyo: What's funny is you never started out having anything to prove anyway, so you just find something that you got to prove yourself. It's usually - usually you're trying to prove something to somebody else. You're trying to prove somebody else wrong. I hate to say it that way. Like, if you sit down and you actually think about it, like, I don't know how many times, like, in law enforcement, I did better just to prove somebody else wrong. I didn't really care if I did it for myself or not. You know what I mean? 

You know, there's a lot of times we allowed things to influence us, you know, not, not from the phone, but, you know, that's today's problem. But you get where I'm going with this, you know. So, I don't know, change their own. Everybody's different, you know, I. You know. You know, I try not to pass judgment until I, like, unless you do stupid shit online. Then, you know. Sorry. Like, all. All hands, all, you know, I'm done. You've lost it. You enjoy being you, but I'm out. You know what I mean? I just. I don't care.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. So to pull us back to a slightly more positive frame of reference, you want to give a shout out to some of the people that, that showed up for you while you were on the hike?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my, you know, Jeff's, Jeff Liskay, showed, you know, I don't know. To those of you, if you don't know Jeff, Jeff is a Great Lakes dude. He's probably been a fishing guide longer than most of us dream of being a fishing guide. He's probably most well respected bait casting and instructor out of the Cleveland area. He's just one of the dartest, nicest guys you ever meet in your life. There was a time where me and Jeff weren't one of the best of friends, but we became the best of friends over the last few years. He was a big part of this. He was the guy that took weight out of my pack so that way I could carry extra water. When it was, you know, 100 degrees outside. You know, he's the guy that opened this house and gave me a place to sleep, you know what I mean? So he's the guy that would call and check in or just drive by to see that I was good to go. 

And then, you know, anybody think that he wasn't busy, he was filming a fishing show and everything else, and he just found time to. To be a part of that, you know, a part of making sure that I could complete my journey, you know. 

You know, Alex Schoen came all the way from Ann Arbor just to hike a few miles with me, you know, one of the days. Rob Pitts, you know, he grabbed me in Cleveland and made sure I had a place to sleep for, you know, that push through Eastern Cleveland into toward the Pennsylvania border. You know, they fed me dinner, everything. I mean, they just, they gave me a chance to rest, recoup, and get my sanity. Owen Murphy grabbing breakfast for me one morning. You know, Jimmy Lamprost and Will Turret bringing gatorades along the journey and just giving somebody to talk to. 

I mean, that's a, that's a big part of this I don't think people really understand is ten days, 300 miles, 40 pounds on your back, it's lonely. Very lonely. Like, I spent as much time fighting the heat and everything else as they did fighting myself. Like, I don't know. I mean, I'll, you know, I listened. Somebody said, like, you gotta fight your inner bits. Have you ever heard that before?

Marvin Cash: I have not.

Greg Senyo: Like, why, uh, my inner bitch must have been like, 400 pounds because he was literally just beating the shit out of me. Just anything, like, any bad, negative thing I could think of along the way, she was just spewing it, and he had to learn how to fight it. You know, either gave in or you fought it. I just, I fought it. You know, but, you know, for me, wasn't an easy goal, was not an easy task. It is definitely not something I would probably ever try to duplicate. Like, I think I showed myself. I'm very much capable of doing the things I want to do still. I'm still sort of fat. I'd like to lose a few more pounds, you know what I mean? But, you know, the - we can't help how God has made us, so. And I do like some of the bad foods we're not allowed to have. Well, I'm not allowed to have, but I eat them anyways. So you know what I'm talking about. So yeah. Again, that goes back to, you know, the inner kid in me when the doctor says I should not eat bacon or, I should not have this because of my heart stuff. My inner kids like, screw you, I'm gonna have bacon. You know what I mean? So I'm fighting myself these days as much as the next guy.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. But also too, you know, as we were kind of racking up kind of life lessons, you know, for your boys and for other people. I mean, that understanding what friendship truly is, right? Like those people that are with you in the darkness, or you tell them that it's important to you and they're as committed to you achieving that goal as you are, right?

Greg Senyo: Yes. Hundred percent. Like, for me it was a big deal. Like I said, you learned a lot from that, you know. You know, I had, believe it or not, like, you know, like, you know how friends are, you know, friends try to have conversations, they talk to you, they try to push you through, you know, they also try to motivate you at times and, you know, like, you hear everything when you're doing something like this, right? You know, everybody's talking, everybody's got some kind of an opinion on something, you know? So you hear all the bad stuff too, you know, you hear the people, you know, like, he can't do this, you need, you need certain type of training to be able to do this kind of mileage. Well, you weren't here for the months and months and months of training that was going on. You know, maybe just because you can't do it doesn't mean I can't do it, you know what I mean? So it was, it was crazy to hear, like what some people that you, that you knew people, you know, what they were saying when you were just trying to do something good. So, yeah, you do, you do learn who your friends are.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, you know, you know, what was your fundraising goal and, you know, how much have you collected so far?

Greg Senyo: So the goal was to raise ten grand. And, I think we finished at around $7000, which let's be realistic, with the current political climate and the interests and inflation and everything else thats going on, I'm sure lacrosse isn't like a huge priority for people. And like, I respect that, you know what I mean? So to raise that kind of money, like, it was huge. Like, I'm just glad that people found merit in what I was doing and contributed that kind of money to these kids. Like, for me, that was a win.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And I would imagine you, I think the last time we spoke, you've left the fundraising link open. You're going to leave it open for a little while after this interview comes out, right?

Greg Senyo: I did, yes.

Marvin Cash: So, uh, I will drop that in the show notes for you, but how long will that link be active so we can get people to actually move and put some money in the jar?

Greg Senyo: I mean, I'll leave it open to the end of the month. You know what I mean? Think about closing that thing on September 1. Anybody wants to contribute to it, great. And if you want to see kind of what the journey was like, that's available to you as well. You can go on Instagram and go to @pack.mule300, and you can actually see all videos, usually, like, three to four a day along each day along the journey to kind of give people updates of, you know, where I was at, how I'm feeling, you know, so they could kind of follow along. You know, it's kind of hard sometimes to do social media when you're dying. That's how I felt like out there, you know, like you're. You're pushing to meet a goal. You're exhausted, you know? But I think I did a good job. You know, I think I represented well for my community, and, you know, so, like I said, it gave everybody a chance to follow along, see where I was at for the day, and, you know, that kind of deal, you know?

Marvin Cash: Yeah. I followed along, and I was like, you know, when you're, when you're hiking and you're drying out socks, it's pretty serious business.

Greg Senyo: Oh, yeah. Like, every, every 10 miles, roughly. I was taking off my boots. Taking off my socks. I packed a small collapsible chair, you know, and I would teach myself to chill out, dry my socks out. You know, that's, that's, you know, part of this whole thing is, like, you set goals for yourself and you push too hard, and you don't account for certain things, and you hit a wall. You know, you hit multiple walls every day, and you just gotta overcome them. But the taking the socks off and sitting there in the sun with my feet out, yes, it was wonderful. It's like some of the best times of the trip.

Marvin Cash: Only replaced with the beer, sticking your feet in the creek when you got to the end of the road, right?

Greg Senyo: That was pretty satisfying. It really. It really. It really hurt, too. I mean, like, hurt hurt. Like putting my feet in that 50 degree water, you know? Oh, boy. You know, brought, you know, tears, tears of pain and joy.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, you know, if we kind of recap, you're probably not doing another Pack Mule anytime soon.

Greg Senyo: No, I'm not doing that again.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, and you're nothing, you know, 100% into fishing anymore. So, you know, what are you doing with all that great free time you have?

Greg Senyo: Well, I mean, it's kind of like what we talked about in this whole podcast. I'm, you know, I'm parenting, I'm hunting, I'm exercising, I'm camping. I love to cook. I'm cooking, and I'm doing these things for me, you know what I mean? I'm doing them for my family, my friends, and, you know, just, just living life now. You know what I mean? I'm not worrying about the, the repercussions of losing my reputation on social media.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. So book, idea book number three idea is a cookbook.

Greg Senyo: You know what? I have those type of notes already written up to do, like a little fly tying, life story cook thing. But then I’d be just like Meateater, and I don't want to do that. So, you know, they already have too many campfire stories.

Marvin Cash: Yeah. And so, you know, you've got your own online store for materials and flies and stuff like that, you know, so folks wanted to check that out, where should they go?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, so, I mean, they could, if you need help, you can always call me at Schultz Outfitters. Like, that's what I tell everyone, call me there. I'll help you do whatever you want. You don't want to talk to anybody, and you just want to order online, you can go through my gregsenyoflytying.com. That has, you know, limited materials on there. And all my flies through Aqua Flies are on there, so they do the best commercial swung fries around. So that's where you would go get that stuff if you want.

Marvin Cash: Got it. And you know what? If folks want to follow your adventures at the vice, on the water and in the field, where should they go?

Greg Senyo: Yeah, I mean, honestly, you can't anymore. Like, my personal, you know, go to my Instagram, you can. You can follow if you want, but I don't put an emphasis on showing the world what I'm doing anymore. And, but if you send me a message or you need help with something like that, shoot it. I'll answer it when I see it. So, you know, best thing to do is, if you want me, is to call me at the store or send me an email which anybody there on staff would give you. And, and, you know, I hate to say it, maybe you'll see me a little bit on YouTube doing Fly Time videos for, uh, good old Mike there at store. But, that's it, man, you know, shit, Marvin, just to be honest with, this might be the last podcast idea. I don't know if I really need to do another one, so. Hope everyone enjoys it.

Marvin Cash: Yeah, so you're sort of. You're becoming like the hermit Obi Wan kenobi on Tatooine and Star wars, right?

Greg Senyo: Yeah. Don't poke the bear. It won't have to be a new series.

Marvin Cash: There you go. Well, listen, I - Greg, I really appreciate you carving out a little bit of time for me. It's been fun.

Greg Senyo: No, man, I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to doing this podcast with you and I hope you're out there enjoying your fishing time with your family. And, I'm sure I'll see you soon.

Marvin Cash: You bet. Take care.

Greg Senyo: Take care.

Marvin Cash: Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Don't forget to check out Trout Routes Pro at maps.troutroutes.com use artfly20, all one word to get 20% off your membership. Tight lines, everybody.