S7, Ep 104: Layer Up and Fish On: Mac Brown's Guide to Winter Fishing Comfort

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. We're back for the last Casting Angles of 2025 with the man himself, Mac Brown.Mac, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin?

I'm getting there on the other side of a pretty nasty norovirus, but I think I'm gonna make it.

Oh, man, that is. That's. That's a rough thing at the holiday season.

Yeah, just too much stuff going on to be knocked down for 72 hours. But I'm on the other side of it and glad I'm able to. To talk fishing in cold weather this evening.

Oh, yeah, that. That'd be a good topic because we're gonna. It's.It's already cold weather a lot of places around the country and we're definitely going to get our share here. It really hasn't been. We've been Fortnite, really. I mean, around the Smokies. I mean, there's snow up high today.Again, it's our fifth snow of the year, but nothing like what we're seeing on the news, you know, I mean, you see the news and it said like 50% of the country's covered in snow. You look at the map across the nation and it's like 0 to 5 degrees all up north of us. And I'm, I'm just like, we've been pretty blessed.So today was 45 degrees for the high and right down around 29 in the morning. So that's not really that we've been fortunate, I'll say that. But we're going to get our sheriff. Some cold weather coming, I'm sure.

Yeah. But even if you were fishing today, you'd want to prepare even though that's not as cold as you can go out and like steelhead fish in, for example.

Right? Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought would be a good topic. Just there's a lot of tricks over the years when we're in.In bad weather, in, in one of them we were talking about, you know, let's start with the, like the foundation and work up. Let's just start with the footwear.So the footwear I always have had for the last 30 years, I've always had a size like one to two sizes bigger of boots that I wear in the winter so I can wear more heavy wool, like Scottish socks that come up to your knee. You know, I got lightweight sock.Then I put a big heavy sock, and that way when I put it inside the neoprene, whether it's neoprene waiter or regular waiters with the neoprene foot, then that bigger boot size keeps from cramping my foot because, because it, the, the cold tends to hurt worse for me personally. Like if it's, if it's tight and it's cold, it's worse. You know what I mean?If I've got a little room in the, in the wading boot to not feel like my whole foot's getting crunched.So that, that's a good place to start is talking about the footwear and then working up for the reason that if your feet are uncomfortable, that's just adding to the misery. Yeah.

And I would say too, I mean, the main thing there is if you, if you cinch down on your boots like you do in the summertime and you're wearing two pairs of socks, you're gonna cut off the circulation in your feet.

Oh yeah.

And that's one of the reasons why you're gonna get cold and be really uncomfortable.

Yeah. And it's hard to move around and be agile in the cold like that, like that when the feet get cold. So let's talk about layering from there up.So we got these socks that come way up. Cause I like those really long, heavy, heavy socks in the winter. I mean, I have a bunch of pairs of them. And literally they come to your knees.I mean it's almost like half your legs already worn. Because these socks, they don't just come to your, you know, above your ankle bone. I mean they come way up.And so it keeps your calf, because your extremities are going to get colder faster anyway. So. And the layering is like Silk weight Capeline from Patagonia, best product ever invented. The real light stuff.You put a pair of those on, then usually we'll come in there with some heavy expedition weight capeline over top of that. And I like using like what you said. I'll use those a lot too.I wear a lot of ex officio for travel over the years just because they're real lightweight, they fold up the size of a softball and a super lightweight pant. And that way you put those on the outside and put your waders over. And I've still got lots of neoprene, which is telling my age.But Even the old 6,8 millimeter neoprene waders were incredibly warm compared to, you know, all these layers of Gore Tex waiters that are out there today. So I still prefer neoprene if it's really nasty weather. I'm, I'm going to be a neoprene usually. Then after the neoprene, let's talk about jacket.The jacket wear. So we're going to do layers just like you're out backpacking on the A.T. in the wintertime. Same deal like silk weight.I usually wear a short sleeve like silk weight undergarment, then a. Another lightweight long capolean over that. And before I'm done, I mean, I'm gonna keep layering up.Then I'll usually wear another expedition white capolane and sometimes a big Icelandic sweater over that and then, then a good jacket over top. And so good jacket being if it's not four or five layers of Gore Tex. And stay away from it.Cause I mean, you need a jacket that's gonna hold up to the weather and keep wind off of you. And usually that jacket's gonna have like the last. I mean, the Velcro with the wrist cuffs gonna have a hood. All that's gonna really help.But then we got it also. Look, let's just knock it all out real fast and we'll talk about some other stuff for cold weather.

All right.

Another thing at hotels is a little cheap. We use these a lot in adventure racing back when we did a lot of eco challenge kind of stuff. Those cheap shower caps at the hotels. Save them.I save them. I've got tons of them in my boat all the time. So if it's really nasty, gonna have to keep your head warm. So.So what you do is you take that little plastic shower cap, pull it down over your ears, and then put you a big, big toboggan over top of that. Or sometimes I wear my big fur hat. You know, it looks like a bomber pilot in World War II. It looks kind of goofy, Marvin, but it's incredibly warm.And then you're not. Your head's not getting cold. You lose a lot of heat up around your ears and your head. So you want to keep that really warm too.So you can regulate this whole package. Like it starts to warm up a little, we'll just pull the big heavy hat off. And that's regulating, keeping you from start sweating.You don't want to start sweating ever. And cold. So the other, the other key is the hands. In fishing, you're dealing constantly. Fly fishing, you got a wet line in your hands.And if that's the case, why let you talk about the gloves? But we use the polybuty and tell us why you use those, Marvin.

Yeah, I mean, it's like the food service gloves. You can buy them on Amazon. And they, the great thing about them is obviously they're waterproof but you get a lot of feel. Right.And, and so you know, the way I, the way I wear them usually if it's cold enough to worry about that I'm going to probably have, I have a pair of sim steel headed mittens right where it has the mittens but you pull it back and it has the, it's a fingerless glove.And so you basically wear that, that food service glove underneath and then put your glove on top of that and then your fingers can get wet but they don't get cold.

That's right. And that's the key is you got to have. The polybuty gloves are just such a good. You can buy em like Harbor Freight.You can buy em on Amazon but buy a bit big box. Like I think the one I bought at Harbor Freight last winter was like 500 pairs of, of. I think they're six mil.But you can really feel like sensitivity. You're not losing any sensitivity. You're just having the hands not turn purple and be cold.Because what happens a lot of people don't realize if you try to fish, say a lake and it's windy on a lake in the winter and it's down in the 20s, you'll lose contact with your line just because you can't feel the line.And once you can't feel the line, it starts looking really silly when you're trying to double haul or do something with the line in the left hand and you can't even hold onto it because you let go of it. So your casting goes out the window. So you gotta be able to feel the line still.And the big key with those polybuty gloves is you can still cast like on still water or a river. Plus have the sensitivity and strike detection because your hands aren't freezing.Because once they turn purple and turn numb that, that happens to everybody at every age. Everybody thinks oh that's just for old people. No it's not.Because I remember I wore polybutal gloves back in my 30s and I'm, I just turned 62 since we talked last time. Marvin. So I'm telling you that's a trick for all ages, not just for people over 50, you know.

Yeah. And the great thing is they're sensitive enough you can tie you know, 6, 7x with them. Right. You know, so it's really great.But a couple other things I would say too. You know, I don't have knee high socks.I usually wear like two pairs of Smart wools a trick if you, if your outer shell is like a pair of like, you know, traditional kind of like waiting pants, like those ex officio pants. If you tuck your cuffs into your socks when you put your waders on your, your outside layer, those ex officio pants won't roll up your leg, Right?

That's right.

Because otherwise you got to reach down there and figure that out or you're out on the one you're like, why on earth are my calves cold?

There's no capital ain't covering them now.

Yeah. So if you just tuck them in, those ex officio pants will stay put. It makes it easier to take your waiters on and off.The other thing I would say too, I see a lot of people do this and if you're trying to stay warm, folks, you know, please put your jacket on on top of your waders. And if it's raining, definitely do it right.

Oh yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of clients over the years, Marvin, tuck their jacket inside their waders.And then when the weather turns, you know, a little bit for the, for the worst of snow or sleet or whatever, it's all going right down there. Yeah, that's not a good idea. I always put your jacket on the outside. And that brings me to another point.I had a, a G4 jacket that's falling apart right now. I mean the seams on the inside, it's about 10 years old. But I'm kind of glad it's falling apart because the people made it.It doesn't even cover your, your waist. You follow me?So if you're out there waiting like in the summer and it gets bad weather and you wearing your ex officios and it starts a downpour, it's not really a good idea having a jacket that doesn't even cover your butt. You follow me?So I'm glad it's, I'm glad it's getting trashed because I've got tons of other really good Patagonia, four or five layers of, you know what I'm saying? Good weather, extreme material that I don't really favor a jacket that doesn't cover your, your lower body a little bit.The really good parkas and stuff in the winter, like extreme jackets, you know, that you'd wear hiking or backpacking, they're going to come down to your knees. So it's, that's keeping you warm. But I mean seriously, a jacket that only covers you to your waist is not helping you much stay warm, is it?

Yeah. And I would Say too folks, you don't have to go out and buy a bunch of new gear. I mean there's a lot of stuff you can do, right.So you know, if you layer properly, you know, like I have, I have a steel headers, an old sim steel headers jacket. And when it's really cold, that's what I wear on top, you know. Otherwise I'm wearing an old Sims wind stopper which is great.But you know, if you layer up and you know, and even if it's just windy, right. If you put, take your old summertime rain jacket and put that on the outside, it'll really help you stay warm.

That's right. Keeping the wind off makes a huge difference too. So. But hopefully some of those tricks will help.But you know, just because I've seen a lot of people in the winter over the years with, with trips and outfit and stuff that they're just not really prepared for the weather that we're, we're in. You know, there a lot of it's by not layering right and not dressing right to start with. And that's a hard way to learn it.So hopefully this will help people have a more pleasant experience if they're out there first time or second. You know what I mean? When bad, bad weather where they're not just shivering the whole time and they can enjoy it, you know.

Yeah.And I just as funny, I've got on the floor right here, they just came today from Amazon two big extra value packs of Hot Hands which are invaluable, right?

Yeah, those can be good. I still got the old gas, you know, Johnny hand warmers that we used as a kid duck hunting as a kid.I've still got a bunch of those where you, you've seen those where you, you light it and then you let the flame burn out. Then it starts glowing hot, you know. And you put it in a little felt bag. I still got a bunch of those that I use.And if it's cold like in the boat, like rowing because you got. People have to realize when, when you're rowing other people down.We might be sitting there, I dropped the anchor and I'm just sitting there and they're fishing. I'm not getting to move around. At least they're casting and stuff. But you're sitting there.So as a guy does little Johnny hand warmer things are nice to put in the, in the bib, right in the front big pocket where you can put your hands in there and warm them up, you know.

Yeah. So you, you carry Your Red Rider BB gun when you use those.

No, but I still got. Those were actually a big thing back in the 60s and 70s. Those little, those little. I think they were Johnson. Was it called Johnson hand warmers?Yeah, I don't know, but I've still got a bunch. Maybe I'll find some and send a picture of them for the, for the listeners. But yeah, those things are invaluable because they're really warm.I mean they get hot. They're like having a red coal in your pocket, you know.

Yeah. And I would say one last thing too, you know, if you're a camper, like I have a, I have a small, you know, backpacking stove.And so that's an easy thing to do if you're going to be, particularly if you're not going to be close to the car. If you carry that pretty small, easy to fit in like your sling pack or your backpack. You know, a great thing.You know, if you get cold, you know, have hot chocolate or you know, freeze dried backpack and food because you know, no one fishes as much as they want to.So when you get out, you want to maximize that day and the last thing you want to have happen is at like 2 o' clock in the afternoon or usually about maybe a little bit later than that when that sun starts to drop behind the ridge, you start getting cold. You know, if you can get soup or like hot chocolate in you, you can fish until dark and make the most of your day.

Oh yeah, and that, that's another good point.Like a good Stanley Thermos or a, A little, I'll use those a lot in the, the motorboat in the winter is little fancy feast, you know, alcohol stove in a little titanium cup and it makes like, you know, it's, it's a. 2 cups of water and that makes a big difference. You know, you make you some hot tea or cocoa or whatever, instant coffee.Now a lot of these instant coffees, I got a bunch, I'm. Let's mention these folks too. They sent a whole bunch of coffee to me when the show season ended and I really like these.We've been using them a bunch this summer called Angler's Coffee and they're like a teabag and it makes a really nice stout cup of coffee for like a pint. You just drop a teabag in one with some hot water and, and you're on your way. You know, I think that's a really good. Cause it's convenient.You don't have to have like a, a press and all that kind of stuff to make coffee so you can enjoy coffee just like drinking tea.

Yeah. Well, there you go. Well folks, I hope all these tips have, have helped you out. And you know, this will be the last casting angles of 2025.And you know, Mac, you know, we'll remind folks like we do all the time that you know, it's going to be show season. You're going to be all over the place in 2026 at all the fly fishing shows. Have you decided on any other shows or events you're going to do?Are you still kind of trying to figure that out?

Well, no, I'm just kind of enjoying life. Marvin. I wanted to tell them about getting this old 66 Ford too. So we brought back from my father in law that's moving from Georgia.And it's a classic looking truck. It's clear coated patina like pottery colors on the top from the rust where they sanded it all down.But it's turquoise and white so I'm going to enjoy working on that before Santa Claus comes.

Well, there you go. Well, so what folks, you're just going to have to wait until Marlboro I guess to, to see Mac on the road.And you know, as always, Mac, why don't you tell folks where to go? Because I mean you were telling me classes are filling up for 2026.You want to let folks know where to go so they can sign up or book a guide day or get a casting lesson.

Yeah, that'd be great.It's Mac, Brown fly fish would be the best place and on the right menu just go underneath specialty classes and that pretty much that's where I put my show itinerary and all the stuff that's coming up for 26. And it has links to the guide schools and all those other good dates. So that's probably the easiest thing. Just MacBrownflyfish.com.

Well, there you go. Well, listen folks, I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year, Mac.

Yeah, Happy New Year. And Merry Christmas to all the listeners and to you too, Marvin.

Take care.