S7, Ep 84: Tying Tradition and Innovation: Tom Herr's Atlantic Salmon Flies and Philanthropy

EPISODE SUMMARY

Guest: Tom Herr - Atlantic Salmon Fly Tier (Pennsylvania)

In this episode: Master Atlantic salmon fly tier Tom Herr shares his 35-year journey from self-taught beginner to artistic fly creator. Topics include traditional featherwing techniques, freestyle artistic fly tying, charitable work with veterans and cancer survivors.

Key fishing techniques covered: • Pinch technique for precise material placement • Married wing construction • Burnishing tool for smooth silk bodies • Hair wing patterns for beginners • Curling technique using clothing iron

Location focus: Pennsylvania spring creeks, Clinton County PA, Alaska Bristol Bay, New Brunswick Miramichi River

Target species: Brook trout, Atlantic salmon

Equipment discussed: Regal Revolution vise, Cotarelli T-Rex vise, Nano Silk thread, Japanese silk, blind eye hooks, Semperfli materials

Key questions answered: • How to start tying Atlantic salmon flies • Where to source traditional materials • Why presentation matters more than pattern • How to use fly tying for charitable causes

Best for: Intermediate/advanced anglers interested in traditional fly tying techniques, Atlantic salmon patterns, artistic fly creation, charitable applications of fly tying skills

Marvin Cash00:00:03

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by Atlantic Salmon fly tier Tom Herr.Tom and I discuss his journey into tying these beautiful flies as well as how he uses them to support organizations like Project Healing Waters and Casting for Recovery. I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave us a rating review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out. And as 2026 approaches, just a reminder for our industry friends that the Articulate Fly offers consulting services.Whether you need help planning for 2026, help figuring out how AI can boost your bottom line, or just need help with some old school blocking and tackling, we would love to hear from you. Check out the link to our consulting page in the show Notes. And finally, a shout out to our sponsor.TroutRoutes we all know streams are getting crowded and chances are you're not the only one at your local access point. Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using TroutRoutes Pro.With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, TroutRoutes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities that others will overlook. Up your game and download the app today.Use code artfly20 artfly20 all one word for 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com now on to our interview. Well Tom, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

Tom Herr00:01:35

Thanks Marvin. Glad to be here. Looking forward to discussion.

Marvin Cash00:01:39

Yeah, me too. And you know we have a tradition on the Articulate Fly. We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Tom Herr00:01:46

Well, so I wouldn't say actual fishing memory, but when I grew up and I was a young lad of maybe five or six years old, we lived in a, in a development like 50s style homes and at the end of our driveway there was like a slight depression and actually a puddle would form there at the end of a rainstorm. And you would often find me after a rainstorm sitting there with a stick with a string tied to it and cast into this puddle.So I don't know if that's an actual fishing memory but and then I, I really had a bed because in the backyard where the Norway maple grew there was, there was no grass grew there and I, I would dig trenches down through the yard there and run a garden hose and run water through there and set my army men up like they were fishing. So. But my earliest, actual earliest fishing memory was probably when I was 10 years old.My daddy, he had bought a brand new Volkswagen Beetle 1967 and he loaded it up with a tent and fishing gear and we drove to Clinton county in Pennsylvania, which was about back then, it was probably like a six hour drive with a canvas wall tent and we fished for brook trout and with fly rods. So that's my earliest fishing memory that I can come back with. Actual fishing with my father. It was awesome.And I felt like I was, I might as well be in Alaska, you know, when we were up there camping out. So it was a great time.

Marvin Cash00:03:24

So yeah, very, very neat. And so did you stick with fly fishing or did you have to kind of come back to it later in your fishing career?

Tom Herr00:03:31

I did, there was a couple times when I was in my teens, in my 20s and where I may have picked up a spinning rod to, to, to fish for trout. I know from work a couple of us would go to Potter county for first day of trout season and you know, I'd have a spinning rod and fish with minis.But basically it was always a fly rod. And for the past, oh gosh, 40 years now it's been, I've had the fly rod in my hands. I never even really thought about any other type of fishing.So yeah, fly fishing has been my daddy fly fished and he was my, my mentor back then. And that's where I, that's where my love of fly fishing came from from very early on.

Marvin Cash00:04:16

So very, very neat. And obviously you know, you live and fish in kind of one of the cradles of American fly fishing in Pennsylvania.Were there some folks, you know, other than your dad that kind of helped your development as an angler?

Tom Herr00:04:30

Yeah, that's an interesting question because back what I remember, Marvin, back in the 60s and 70s in my area, as I was growing up through my teen years into my twenties, fly fishing wasn't really a thing in this area. Even though it was close to Carlisle and the Spring Creeks in Pennsylvania. Carlisle, where, where the legends, you know, push fly fishing.It really didn't take off here. So other than my father, I really didn't have any other mentors. I mean he worked in the foundry as a motor his entire life.And during the week he really did have the energy, understandable with that type of lifestyle to take me fishing. So I load up my gear and put it on my bike and ride a local stream and I pretty much self taught through fly fishing. And tying.Then when I got my driver's license around 16 or 17, my whole world opened up then. But other than my father, I really didn't have any strong mentors other than. And the books I read, you know, I would read lots of fly fishing books.I go to the library and get books out. But other than personal. Personal mentorships, I never really had that, other than my daddy.

Marvin Cash00:05:49

Yeah, it's pretty neat, too.You know, kind of back in that time, I'm a little bit younger than you are, but, you know, the mail would come in, you'd get filled and streamed and all these magazines and catalogs.

Tom Herr00:05:57

And it was just absolutely.

Marvin Cash00:05:58

It was just awesome, right?

Tom Herr00:05:59

Yeah, yeah. Yep, absolutely. So, yeah, you know, I. I did one of the things that. That he did teach me that I still take to this day. And when I.When I teach fly fishing classes, I always bring this up. And when I'm guiding, always tell people. People this. It was always about the presentation.And he always told me, he said, it's about the presentation. Okay. It's not about the fly or the color of the fly. It's about the presentation. It's got to be dead on.He said, think of yourself standing out in the middle of a field on a windy day, and the balloon's floating towards you in the air. And all of a sudden that balloon stops, speeds up or goes off the side. He said, you're going to think you're in the twilight zone.And he said, that trout is sitting there in the stream with his face into the wind, into the current, and all day long he's seeing all this debris float by him and nymphs float by him. And he's just sitting there picking them off. Now here comes your offering your nymph.And all of a sudden it speeds up or slows down or goes off the side. He won't take, you know, because it's not natural. He always said, it's about the presentation.

Marvin Cash00:07:07

So, yeah, very, very neat. And so when did you kind of get the. Get the bug to start fly tying?

Tom Herr00:07:14

Well, that was soon after we returned from that trip in Clinton County. They took me on. And you mentioned field and stream. I don't know if I think it was Field and Stream or Outdoor Life.They had like an insert in the middle of it that you could pull out. And it was like a different. It was like a paper type fabric that was in it, and it had all kind of neat stuff in it.And there was something in there about fly tying. Oh, that's pretty cool.So I walked upstairs and got into my mom's sewing kit and got some yarn and some thread and got a mustad bait hook from down the basement from that. And I wrapped thread around this hook and tied on this yarn. And that was my first fly.That's my memory of my very first fly I tied, you know, so, yeah, it started pretty early, at the age of 10.

Marvin Cash00:08:09

Interesting. And so do you, do you remember your first vice?

Tom Herr00:08:13

Yeah, so, so I actually tied, you know, I started, I thought it was so cool, fly tying.So, you know, I, I tied, I got magazines and, and when daddy would go hunting, you know, you get the pheasants and, and, and, and, and the grouse and I get the feathers from that and, and squirrel tails. That sounds kind of bad, but when we were driving down the road and there was a dead squirrel in the road, we jumped out, cut the tail off.That was our, that was some of our flight time. That's how we got fly time material back then. But then I actually tied in hand because I didn't know about vices.You know, I tied in hand, holding the hook in my hand for a couple years. And then I was down in the basement and dad's big old bench vice was there and I thought, well, you dummy, why don't you just put the hook in there?That way you don't have to hold it anymore. So dad's big old bench vise that he used to sharpen mower blades was actually my first fly tying vise.And then, and then from mowing some lawns I did get when I was 17 or 18, I got a Thompson pro, a vice clamp on type vice that I actually tied on for. Oh man, for probably 10 or 15 years. So. Yeah, but my, my first vice was dad's bench vise that he had down in the basement.

Marvin Cash00:09:36

So very, very cool. What do you tie, what do you tie on today?

Tom Herr00:09:41

Actually, two, I have a regal revolution that I tie on and also for my artistic style ties and my classic feather wings, I have a Catarelli T. Rex. It's an Italian vice and it actually has two jaws on it. And the reason it has these two jaws that some of the hooks that I tie on.Well, a lot of the hooks I tie on are presentation hooks and you don't want to scratch the finish on them. So these two jaws grip that hook in two different locations, you know, on the bend.And you hardly have to put any pressure on that on the surface of that hook for it to hold steady. So the cotteroy T. Rex is when I tie my featherings on. So.

Marvin Cash00:10:28

Got it.Which is a perfect segue into my next question, which is you go from, you know, tying yarn flies on mustad hooks in your hand to tying Atlantic salmon flies, you know, and. And I would say there are a lot of people that are crazy about tying, but you.Very few of them get drawn into the world of tying Atlantic salmon flies. What attracted you to that?

Tom Herr00:10:49

That's a good question. So That's a very good question. So I guess what really attracted me to it is the color of it, of it all. Like, I see these pictures.I saw these pictures of the green highlander and the Jock Scott, and just the natural material that was used to tie these patterns just intrigued me so much, you know, like the married wings. How do you do that? How's all that done? You know, and little did I know that there's so much. Such a huge learning curve to do it.And I guess that's what it was. The color and the techniques that. That I knew would. Would be a learning experience for me to gain. And I just was. I just was intrigued by it all.So that's really what. What attracted me to it all that was involved to tying this. This complex fly. I just. I just needed to know how to do it. So. Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:11:50

Very neat. And so, you know. How long have you been tying salmon flies?

Tom Herr00:11:54

I've been tying salmon flies now for probably, I say, 35 years. The artistic style, where I kind of got away from. Or freestyle, if you would. It's probably been like 25 years. And the reason I. I kind of.I mean, I. I still tie the classic patterns, but I like to think outside the box, you know, on my tying.And I would suggest any type of tire, whether it's tying bass flies or trout flies or nymphs or whatever, it's not necessary to follow a particular pattern that's in a book, you know, make it your own. And that's what I tell folks that I'm teaching tying to. You know, you don't have to follow this specific pattern.Make it your own pattern and substitute, you know, colors, whatever. And that's what I enjoy about the freestyle or the artistic style of feathering flies.

Marvin Cash00:12:53

So, yeah, it's. It's neat, too, right? Because it's a very. The community that ties these flies.It's international and it's very close, even though it's very distributed. And I was kind of curious, you know, that means so much has changed in fly fishing in general. You know, in the last I don't know. Gosh.Since, let's say the movie came out.

Tom Herr00:13:13

Yeah. How.

Marvin Cash00:13:14

How has, how has the Atlantic salmon fly tying community changed over that time period?

Tom Herr00:13:20

Well, you know, Marvin, I'm not so sure I've been asked that before, and I'm not so sure the community has changed that much.I mean, in the traditional sense of featherwing salmon flies, these, these timeless patterns, such as a jock sky and the Green Highlander that have been there for centuries, and that's just a name, a few, they're still being tied by many who, who enjoy dressing this type of fly, you know, the traditional flies. And there are, there are those in this community that's, that's all they, they enjoy doing.And really, I mean, that tradition goes way back to the Victorian area, but the married wings and the feathers from these exotic birds, they were used to develop these patterns that are so well known today. So.But if, if anything has changed, if anything has changed, I think it would be the influx of synthetic materials that are rarely found now and are used at times to tie these types of flies. For instance, there's a, there's a common material, natural dubbing, that's used to build up the body of like the Green Highlander and it seals fur.That's a natural material and that's getting hard to find now.There are many substitutes for that, but there's a company in the uk, Semper Fly Fly Time Materials, which is a fantastic company, they developed a really cool dubbing to imitate seals, first called Semper Seal, and it mimics the natural seal for almost exactly as a natural. I mean, it's fantastic stuff. So if there was any change, I think that would happen in the community.I think that's what it would be, the influx of synthetic materials.And also those who are out there who are developing using like pheasant rump feathers to enter dyeing that in a way to, to mimic the more expensive feathers that's used in these traditional patterns. So they're doing a lot of that. So, yeah, that's, that's basically the changes that I would see that's happened over the years.

Marvin Cash00:15:42

So, yeah, and in terms of, you know, technology, obviously we have things like YouTube where you can watch it on demand.

Tom Herr00:15:48

Right? Exactly, exactly.

Marvin Cash00:15:49

But, you know, do you find. Because I know that there are kind of these gatherings that happen all over the world. Are they happening more or less frequently?And are people embracing things like zoom to be able to talk to someone in Scotland without having to go to an event? Maybe in Nova Scotia, for example.

Tom Herr00:16:08

Yeah. So I think people are using YouTube a lot more. I mean, there's great YouTube channels out there.Friends of mine have channels that show how to set a married wing, how to tie a complete green highlander. And you're able to stop and start that as it progresses.But there's still nothing like going to a show and standing, sitting across the table from somebody and having that personal connection like netting. Salmon Fly International, that's held every two years, but that's held around the world, different locations, so you're not always able to do that.But usually at every fly fishing show that's run across the country and the fly fishing shows, one in Lancaster, there's one in Colorado, there's all across the country. There's always, there's usually a tire there that's tying classic salmon flies.So, you know, one should be able to be able to sit there and ask questions as he ties. So.

Marvin Cash00:17:11

Yeah, yeah, there is. Yeah. There's really no replacement for, you know, in person. And, you know, it's interesting too.

Tom Herr00:17:17

There isn't.

Marvin Cash00:17:18

Yeah. I mean, you know, in tying books, for some reason, it seems to me they're hard to get them edited.

Tom Herr00:17:23

Well, yeah.

Marvin Cash00:17:25

And so it's kind of, you know, either, you know, in person is best, video is probably second best and then books. But, you know, if someone's like, I'm curious, I think I might want to kind of, you know, try my hand.Atlantic salmon flies, you know, what, what would be your suggestions for them to kind of break into the game?

Tom Herr00:17:43

Yeah, so that's, that's a good question. So I, I, I've, I'm currently mentoring a young lad who has tremendous town in tying and great thread control. And he's all about this.And, you know, the first thing I told him when he contacted me about this was to pick up books by Michael Radicitz. They're great reads.He has three or four books out and, and he has it step by step and find a mentor if you can close by that you can talk to, that you can sit down and cross with. That's not always easy because our community is.There's not many of us worldwide if not attend the show, like I said, where there's a tire there that specializes in this type of tying. But basically, if you want to get into this style of tying, don't get into the featherwing styles where you marry feathers.There's salmon flies that are called hair wings. Okay. And they basically use squirrel tail and black bear hair.But the body, the body Build for, for on the hook shank is, mimics that of that classic salmon fly. In fact, there's, there's a, there's a heroin gold green green highlander pattern that's used very popular for laying salmon.It's much easier to tie that pattern in a hair wing than it is with a feather wing. But you still get, you still, you, you're still able to develop the skill to build that body up as you would for, for a feather wing.So that's the best advice I can give to somebody. Start, don't start off with, with trying to marry feathers and instead of married wing start with heroines first and then go from there.

Marvin Cash00:19:29

So got it.And I know, you know, you touched on this a little bit earlier and you know, a lot of people have probably read the Feather Thief but you know, getting, getting the original Victorian natural materials is difficult either because the birds are extinct or the animals are extinct or there are all sorts, I guess of import and export controls on these things.

Tom Herr00:19:50

Right.

Marvin Cash00:19:50

You know, how do you solve that problem?

Tom Herr00:19:53

Well, yeah, I mean, I mean the good part about that book is it served as kind of like a wake up call to our community regarding the source of materials that we use and the harm by ignoring those ethical considerations about tainting them. But in saying that, I think that book delved into the feather underground, if you would enlisted trait of rare feathers.And it kind of led some to infer that a large portion of this community that I'm part of participates in or condones these types of practices. But that's not the case.You know, the, the people who are involved in this type of underground, if you would, is a very, very, very minute part of this community. And you know, I, I just, I, I, I, I tend to think that perhaps this book kind of can label us all as one group, but that's, that's not the case.But having said that, as far as getting these materials, you know, it is getting harder and harder and harder to find. Marv, I have enough that I've collected over the years to last me a lifetime now. Pretty fortunate in that way.But like dyed white turkey, which is basically the center tail of a white domestic turkey. And they raise these birds just for this type of tying and then they dye them. I dye my own feathers. But it's getting increasingly hard to find.I mean back in the day when you go to a show, you could buy all you want. Now you're lucky if you find any for sale at any shows and on YouTube or on eBay, you're lucky if you find any for sale there, so.And the cost is getting higher and higher, so. But there's substitutes. To learn how to tie these flies, you can use goose, which you can purchase at any fly shop. Okay.It's a little bit harder to marry together.Now, when I talk about Mary, you're taking different strips of that feather and cutting them, cutting the slips out, and then pressing them back together to form that wing. And, you know, goose works fine. It's a little bit harder to work with, but that's what I started off with with goose. Yeah.I mean, travel to shows, talk to tires, ask them where they source their material, join Facebook groups. There's lots of Facebook groups or social media groups that are centered around this. You know, don't be afraid.Even though you're just starting out, we're a community and we are begging to be asked questions. You know, ask questions. When you join these groups, where do you guys get your materials from? You will get answers.And there's some of us that will ask for your address. We'll send you stuff, you know, because we want this community to grow.We absolutely do, you know, and we want young folks involved in this, too, because there's a lot of us that are getting up in age and, you know, there's not many young tires out there doing this type of thing. So, yeah, don't be afraid to join social media groups and ask questions. So we're there.We're willing to answer any questions you may have and help you any way we can. So hopefully that answered your question, buddy.

Marvin Cash00:23:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then also, too, like, I know, like, the hooks are not as hard, but I also know, right, that there are hooks and then there are hooks, Right?And so, like, you. You can go to Feathercraft and you can get the eyeless, you know, hooks, probably from Partridge or someone like that.But then I also know, like, doing research for this interview, that you've got buddies in Japan that are making hooks. So, you know, how does the kind of. The hook trade kind of work into all those?

Tom Herr00:23:52

Yeah, I mean, there are commercially available hooks. They're called blind eye hooks. And that's how the hooks back in the Victorian age were. That's how the flies were titled.And they're actually a hook without an eye. And to create the eye of that blind eye hook, you actually use the gut from a silkworm.They actually raise silkworms, and they pull the gut material, the testing material out of this worm and they dry it and they twist it together and it Creates a very durable, very strong material, twisted material that you make the eye out of. It's called a gut eye. So these hooks are blind eye hooks and there are some commercially available hooks available to purchase.And there's hook makers out there, again from Yesterhiro in Japan and Yuji Wabi from Japan also.But there's commercially available hooks or I'm sorry, handmade hooks here in the US that cost wise, they're, they're more expensive than, than your hooks you buy the fly shop. They're about eight to ten dollars a hook. So. But again, you know, to get started in this, you don't need that blind eye hook.You can start on, I tell people, I say you can just get a wide gap streamer hook and don't worry about that. Yeah, it has an eye on it, but don't worry about that, you know, so you don't need these blind eye hooks to get started in this. So.

Marvin Cash00:25:27

Got it.And so, you know, you were tying classic Atlantic salmon flies for about a decade, and then you gravitated to, I guess, what people call freestyle, right? So not, not in a Victorian pattern book, you know. You know, what made you make that shift?

Tom Herr00:25:43

Well, that started, I guess I was flying somewhere and I can't remember where it was, but I was at an airport here in Pennsylvania and I was walking through the bookstore there at the airport, you know, once you go through security and looking for something to read on the plane. And I just, here was Life magazine and had the greatest pictures of the year in history of life.And I was looking through there and people say artists are kind of crazy. Well, I guess that's kind of me. But I saw this picture of that iconic image of Marilyn Monroe standing over that grave with her dress blowing up.And I thought, I wonder if I could tie a fly to mimic that. Seriously, that's what I did. So this was on my mind and I came home and I tied this, this fly. I call it Maryland. And I still have it.And that was actually my first artistic fly.And since that time, you know, I just like thinking outside the box and, you know, most, almost all of my ties now my freestyle is freestyle because I just enjoy doing that. I haven't, I haven't tied two of the same since I started doing that. It's. Everyone's been different. So. Yeah, so that was actually my first one.

Marvin Cash00:27:03

So very neat.I know those pictures are on your website and I'll link to that in the show notes, you know, so, you know, a little bit more of an Artistic expression and you need the inspiration. And then you got to tie the fly. You want to kind of maybe walk us through.I know there's no typical freestyle fly, but, you know, walk us through kind of the process of, you know, the idea all the way to the finished fly. And I know you also Matt and frame yours. Kind of take us through that whole process.

Tom Herr00:27:30

Yeah. So when I first started this, I come up with an idea on how I want this fly to look like.And some of this is centered around the hook that I have, the style of the hook that I have, or it may be the materials that I have, or a thought I may have. And I started doing pencil drawings, drawing this thing out and on. On paper and how I wanted it to look.I mean, but after a while that just didn't work because halfway through the tie, I would change my ideas anyway. And then sometimes, Marvin, it's a matter of just putting a hook in the vise and just going with it. Just tying and seeing where, where it goes.I just finished one for, for the lodge that, that I was at in. In Alaska. Ata Alaska Trophy Adventures Lodge in Al hosted a trip to, just returned last week. Fantastic lodge, incredible experience.But I tied one there called the Alagnak and I framed it and delivered it to him. And it's hanging in the lodge now. But that lodge, I had this image of the sunset on the Lagnac river with the lodge in the background.And it's a fantastic image. And I've had two Scarlett McCall parrot feathers. They're very long that I've been. I've had for like 14 years.And I just never had the right use for them. And I saw that, that color in that sunset. And Yashuhiro, a Japanese hook maker, he.He had gifted me this one hook that was actually, I think it was like a 12 ought hook, a very big hook. And I thought those feathers, they're going to be perfect for this tie.And actually that one, I just put the hook in the vice bar and just, just went with it. You know, I really had no idea. I just built it as I went and it turned out pretty good. So.And the thing, another thing of it is, I mean, sometimes I have to ask my wife to come down, check colors because I'm colorblind. So believe it or not, so reds and greens, I. I get all mixed up. So.But yeah, I mean, how I plan this out is my freestyle flies is sometimes there's a lot of thought goes into it and other times there's just. I just go with it and see what happens.

Marvin Cash00:30:04

So, yeah, very neat and super crazy question. Do you ever tie at landing salmon flies to fish with?

Tom Herr00:30:12

I do when I was up in the MIR machine up in New Brunswick to. There's a show up there, the ASFI Link Salmon Fly International.They invite 80 tires from around the world to go and I was one of six from the US to go there and demonstrate salmon flies. And we were also going to be, be able to fish up there for laying salmon. So I did tie some green highlanders featherwing style thighs.I did tie some, some hair wings. But these, these featherwing flies, when, when they're in the water, I mean, they, they just look amazing. They really do.I mean, yeah, there's a little bit of work that goes into them.Now, now when I tie them for fishing, I'm not putting as much detail into them, of course, but you know, the, the married wings turns into kind of like a mixed wing, if you would, and it just lays down and they, they just look amazing in the water.You know, they don't mimic any natural bait fish, if you would, but laying salmon, you're not, you're actually going for an aggressive strike, you know, not a feeding type of strike. So. But yeah, I, I do tie them for fishing, so.

Marvin Cash00:31:25

Very neat.And you know, it's kind of funny, every time I get a, you know, a serious tire on the podcast, I always like to ask them if they've got a couple unique flying tips for mere mortals that we can use to improve our, our life at the, the bench and minimize frustration. And they can be Atlantic salmon tips or not Atlantic salmon tips.

Tom Herr00:31:44

Well, you know, when, when I teach fly tying courses, I always tell people, I said, there's one thing that you really need to learn to do, and that's called the pinch technique.I don't know if you've heard of that before, but you're basically bringing the thread up and, and pinching it between your fingers, taking a loose wrap down and then, you know, letting that, and then tightening up by letting that thread slip through your fingers.Because the thing of it is, you know, you want that material that you're tying on that hook, whether it be setting a married wing or tying a piece of marabou on the tail for, for a, a woolly bugger, you know, you want that material to do what you want it to do, not what it wants to do.And some of these materials have a pretty rugged personality that they're, they fight you the whole way, you know, and by using that pinch technique, you're bringing that, you're placing that material on the hook where you want it. And by using a pinch technique, that thread is coming straight down on top of it. It's not allowing it to roll, if you would. So that's, that's.And every piece of material that I tie onto my. One of my flies, my free in my freestyle flies with some will take 20, 30 hours to complete.Almost every piece of material I use that technique, the pinch technique. So. And then I've gotten questions about people on how to set tie in like a married wing and some of these other materials.Nano silk, a silk type based thread. Nanosilk is Semper Fly's thread, which is I think the best thread in the market. It's a GSP type thread and it's slippery, if you would.And it allows that thread to, to set that material without rolling it, if you would. So yeah, I mean those two things using a, like a nano silk from Semper Fly thread on set in the married wing and the pinch technique.That pinch technique is crucial in any type of tying, whether it's easy tying or, or something difficult. So.

Marvin Cash00:33:51

Yeah, absolutely. And I always know too that tires are mad scientists.So I bet you, I bet you've got some kind of nutty tool that you probably made yourself that's on your tying bench. You want to share that with fol?

Tom Herr00:34:02

Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's called. Well, it's a burnishing tool. Okay. And I don't know if you heard of that before but, but I, I kind of made my own.So when I do these, the body on some of my flies and some of them can get pretty intricate. I use a material called Japanese silk.It's actually silk and I, when I wrap it on, on the hook, I, I use silk gloves because the oil from my hands can, can discolor it. And I was a lineman, electrical lineman in my past life. I got some rough hands and it catches on there. So I got to wear silk gloves when I wrap it.But that shows every little bump in that body. And so I use a burning string tool. It's actually a very, very smooth stone, like a long stone, if you would. And I rubbed that body.I actually put an underbody on it with uni silk and I rub that really, really hard the whole way around that hook to smooth it all out.And then when I put the silk on, I use that burnishing tool again and I rub it really hard as hard as I can and it smooths everything out, makes it like glass so that, that burnishing tool, if you would, is a tool that I can't live without when I'm tying these flies.

Marvin Cash00:35:22

Got it.And then do you have any other, like, you know, interesting techniques or kind of new materials you're playing around with that you can share with our listeners?

Tom Herr00:35:32

Well, yeah, for my, for my artistic flies, I use a lot of curls in some of my, my wingings.And I don't know if you've seen some of them, but that's, that's basically using when you take a pair of scissors and people have asked me how I do that.And you open your scissors up and you take that material from, from a, either a piece of goose or a couple sips of goose or a couple sips of diet turkey. It's actually like curling a ribbon, like for Christmas time. But you gotta use very gentle pressure and that creates that curl.And then you gotta, you know, tie that curl in or either on the body or married into the wing. I've also been asked, yeah, so when, when I marry a wing together and with different colors to create a wing.There was one tie that I did to honor a firefighter friend of mine. And the hook was actually gifted to me by Yesterhiro from Japan. And it's a red hook with some orange in it.And I wanted these, these married wings to curl, you know, like flames coming off the hook. And I thought, how can I make this wing that I just married curl? Because it's not natural to do so, you know, And I lost sleep over this.I thought, maybe I'll use a curling iron. I'm not going to use hairspray. You know, there's no glue or hairspray or anything using any of these flies from any tire.So it dawned on me, and this is, this is letting the cat out of the bag, I guess, but because I've been asking this first time really revealed it, but I came down and got my wife's iron that she uses iron clothes and put on a hot setting, and I grabbed that wing and I curled it in my hands and I rubbed that curl on the edge of that iron and it stuck. And I thought, holy smokes, I've got it, you know, but. But it slowly uncurled, you know, back to its natural flat shape.It took, it takes five, four times of doing that for it to stay that way. And that's how I curled my married wings. So.

Marvin Cash00:37:50

Well, I'm proud of my powers of persuasion that I pulled that out of you.

Tom Herr00:37:54

Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:37:58

So, you know, shifting gears a little bit you know, we were talking about this when we met each other in Lancaster. You know, giving back is very, very important to you.And you give back, you know, on the water and, you know, at the vice by tying these beautiful patterns that you use for various, you know, fundraising and recognition purposes. You know, where did that drive to give back come from?

Tom Herr00:38:24

Well, that came when I was a teenager, Marvin. And daddy and I were out split wood out behind the garage, and he was. He was getting ready to retire. His arthritis was.Because he had rheumatoid arthritis in his hands, and he could no longer mold. So he went into, like, an office job, which he absolutely hated. So he was talking about retiring.And I said, so what are you going to do, dad, when you retire? He said, well, I'm going to fish more. But he said, I. I want to help out around the community.And me being the teen teenager that I was, a punk teenager, I was. I said, why would you want to do that? You know, he. He looked at me and said, look, I never forgot this.He said, look, he said, if you have a gift or a talent that you could use that could help somebody forget a nightmare they might be going through, why won't you do that? And that stuck with me to this day, you know, and it's true.I've done projects for Project Healing Waters, Red, White and Blue flies and frame them for American Cancer Society for Casting for Recovery. That's a great program for women going through breast cancer. I've done frames for them and local organizations here.There's an organization here called Millport Conservancy that raises money every year for. To send to help votech kids in the area. And I always do a frame for them every year to raise money.So, yeah, I mean, and Daddy was right, you know, I mean, this is. People think of fly time, Marvin.You know, it's all about fishing and everything else, but whether you tie a fly that can be frames or tie flies for fishing, you can take that dozen flies or two dozen flies and give it to a veteran, you know, or give it to a lady who might be going to casting for recovery, you know. You know, we. We. We have this skill, like Daddy said, we have this skill that we could use to help somebody out. Why wouldn't we use it?It makes totals. It doesn't make sense not to, you know, and whether it be. And fishing, too, I mean, you know, if. If you're. If you're a fly fisherman, I mean, we.We have this skill that we can take people out, we can Teach people we can get involved with. Kids. There's so many opportunities in this pastime, whether it be tying or. Or fly fishing, that.That we can get involved in in the community in so many different ways. So. Yeah, yeah.

Marvin Cash00:40:47

It's interesting, you know, because I was very lucky to have people around me when I was growing up that took an interest in me and they were interested in the outdoors. Right.

Tom Herr00:40:55

Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:40:56

And, you know, even though, you know, you know, I'd like. I really learned fishing from my grandfather. Right.And I have a picture here in my office of, you know, we're fishing with a cane pole, and he's literally wearing, you know, rubber wellies, and he's got an aluminum worm box on his belt.

Tom Herr00:41:12

Yeah, but.

Marvin Cash00:41:13

But, you know, I also had people that were like, ornithologists. And for me, that kind of laid the foundation for me, you know, caring about being outdoors and fishing.And, you know, to your point, I kind of came back to the outdoors probably in, like, my early 30s. And, you know, fly fishing was very, very healing. And so. Absolutely, you know, and on a lot of different levels. And kind of.To your point, you know, I. I got involved with Project Healing Waters and other groups because I was like, well, if I can help other people have this feeling, I should do that.

Tom Herr00:41:43

Yeah, Yeah. I was sitting. I was at an event, a Project Healing Waters eventually.And for those of you, I'm sure many of your listeners know what Project Healing Waters is all about, but it's an organization that's nationwide that arranges outings and meetings for disabled veterans.And the one outing I was on, I was with a gentleman, and we were sitting along the stream, and he said to me, he said, so, don't you want to hear my story? And I said, this is. That's not what this is about. And he told me what he went through. And it's. It's incredible. It's this, what he told me.But anyway, he said, you know what he said, this is the first time talking about it. This is the first time that I've been on the stream that I've actually thought about it.And I've heard that from women who are dealing with breast cancer and other veterans that they want a common comment that they made. To me, it says, my gosh, since I've been out here, I haven't thought about any of that. That's what fly fishing does. That's what fly tying does.Because you're so focused in on the moment that you forget about it all. I mean, running and jogging and bike Riding, they're all good stuff.But I think it allows your mind to wander where fly fishing, casting a fly rod and tying, you're just so focused and be able to escape. So. Yeah, yeah.

Marvin Cash00:43:11

It's interesting, too, because I think part of it is the fishing part, and it lets people think about when they were little boys. Right.

Tom Herr00:43:17

Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:43:17

Because I can remember, like, going to the outpatient clinics to recruit for our program in Charlotte, and, you know, you would just say, hey, you remember when you were a little kid and you caught your first Brem and people would light up and you just kind of had them right at that point.

Tom Herr00:43:29

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:43:31

But, yeah, it's a fantastic thing.And so, you know, I know you live in Pennsylvania, and we're at that time of year where people start to think, you know, where they're going to be on the show Circuit in late 2025, early 2026. Have you made plans to either, like, be at the fly tying symposium or to definitely be in Lancaster next year that you want to share with folks?

Tom Herr00:43:52

Yeah, so I'll definitely be in Lancaster in the fly. Fly fishing show. And lack the thing with the, the. The symposium in November, that's the same weekend as my. My granddaughter's birthday.So I'm not going to do it. So, you know, that's, that's why I'm not doing that. She's my little girl. She's a year and a half, and, yeah, so she's a joy of my life right now.So I got two boys and I got a little girl that I'm looking after. So, yeah, I won't be at the symposium. I'm not traveling to the other shows just because of that reason.But I will be in Lancaster, and I would invite you all to look me up. I'll have a table there, and I'll be tying these patterns and marrying wings and. Yeah, feel free to watch. Just pull up and watch and ask questions.I love questions. So. Yep.

Marvin Cash00:44:46

Yeah. And I love the Lancaster venue.I mean, you literally can get out of bed and put on your nice pajama bottoms and your slippers and go to the show, right?

Tom Herr00:44:54

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Marvin Cash00:44:57

Is there anything else you want to share with our listeners tonight?Like, do you have any events, fundraising events or charity events coming up that you're supporting with your patterns that you want to let folks know about or you want to give a shout out to any of the charities you work with or talk about? Any of your, you know, teaching opportunities are going on?

Tom Herr00:45:14

Yeah. So my, my, my Teaching and my guiding this during the fall. I have cut back on because of babysitting my little girl and.But there is a casting for recovery event coming up where I'll be a stream guide here in, in September. And again, I mean, it's a fantastic charity.If, if there's any charity that anybody wants to support is Project Healing Waters or, or Healing Waters and Casting for Recovery. They're fantastic organizations.And yeah, I mean there's some local travel limited chapters that I'm going to be giving presentations in at Muddy Creek Chapter.I'll be talking about actually about my Alaska trip and how to do Alaska on your own and through a lodge and then Donegal Chapter Trial Unlimited here locally in Lancaster coming up. I'll be doing the same program in December and one in September on steelhead fishing. So yeah, I mean I'm not.I'm not as busy as I once was because of my little girl, but I'm still busy.

Marvin Cash00:46:16

So it's important stuff and I will get links to all that stuff and drop it in the show notes for folks and. Yeah, and Tom, you know, if folks want to follow your adventures on the water at the vice and in Alaska now, where should they go?

Tom Herr00:46:28

Yeah, I have a Facebook page. Just look me up, Tom her. You'll see. I just created a video on. On my adventure to Alaska, which was absolutely incredible.ATA Lodge is a fantastic lodge to go to. It's in Bristol Bay, Alaska and it's on the Lagnac river. And you'll see the whole video of the time we shared there.That's my Facebook page and I have all my ties in there. And I'm on Instagram too. Tom her 34 and also have a website that I Update regularly. It's artisticflytying.com.

Marvin Cash00:47:03

Well, there you go. Well, I will drop all that stuff in the show notes.

Tom Herr00:47:06

Good.

Marvin Cash00:47:07

Awesome. Well, Tom, I super appreciate you taking some time out of your evening to talk to me.

Tom Herr00:47:11

Oh, this has been great. Thanks for. Thanks for inviting me, Marv. I appreciate it.

Marvin Cash00:47:15

Yeah, my pleasure. I'll see you in March.

Tom Herr00:47:17

Okay, buddy. Take care.

Marvin Cash00:47:20

Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Remember, links to all this episode sponsors are in the show notes. Check them out. Tight lines, everybody.