S8, Ep 10: Winter Warm-Up: Tips and Tricks for Fly Fishing with Mac Brown
Episode Overview
In this episode of The Articulate Fly podcast, host Marvin Cash catches up with master casting instructor Mac Brown for another installment of Casting Angles — a recurring segment dedicated to fly casting education and the business of fly fishing instruction. Recorded just after Mac returned from back-to-back appearances at the Denver and Bellevue stops of the Fly Fishing Show, the conversation covers his experience on the road, a spontaneous three-day steelhead spey fishing trip squeezed between shows and what's ahead on the Fly Fishing Show calendar. Mac and Marvin dig into the practical value of two-handed casting techniques on single-handed rods — particularly for tight Appalachian streams and summertime smallmouth fishing on rivers like the Little Tennessee, Pigeon and Tuckaseegee. Mac makes a compelling case that mastering the roll cast and a module of switch/spey casts (snake roll, snap T, snap C, Z cast, A cast) transforms an angler's ability to present flies on any water, not just big steelhead rivers. The episode wraps with late-winter fishing observations, a teaser about the upcoming Lancaster Fly Fishing Show and a reminder that Mac's guide schools, casting schools and specialty classes are bookable on his website.
Key Takeaways
- How to expand your presentation options on tight Appalachian streams by adding spey and switch casts to your single-handed rod repertoire.
- Why the roll cast is the essential foundation of all two-handed casting, and why building it first unlocks the entire spey/switch toolkit.
- How to use two-handed delivery moves — snake rolls, snap Ts, Z casts and others — for summertime smallmouth fishing.
- When to capitalize on late-winter warmup windows by monitoring water temperatures, even when air temps feel comfortable for trout fishing.
- Why fishing from the tail of a long pool with two-handed casting techniques gives you a longer drift, better positioning and keeps big fish unaware of your presence.
Techniques & Gear Covered
Mac Brown covers the full spectrum of spey and switch casting moves applicable to single-handed rods, including the roll cast, snake roll, snap T, snap C, Z cast and A cast — what he describes as a "module of eight or nine" setup-and-deliver sequences that, once internalized, become intuitive rather than mechanical. A key theme is translating techniques typically practiced on grass into real fishing scenarios: managing 50–60 feet of shooting line in your fingers, reading pool geometry and making decisions about river-left vs. river-right presentations coming out of winter. Mac also references the two-day and three-day specialty casting schools he runs throughout the season — focused formats on wet fly and dry fly specifically — available through his website under specialty classes. No specific fly patterns or rod brands are mentioned in this episode, keeping the focus squarely on casting mechanics and tactical decision-making.
Locations & Species
The episode references several western North Carolina rivers as prime proving grounds for switch and spey techniques on single-handed rods, including Deep Creek, the Davidson River, the Little Tennessee ("Little T"), the Pigeon River and the Tuckaseegee River. These waters illustrate how Appalachian freestone and tailwater streams — often dismissed as "small water" — actually demand long presentations across pools that run 60–70 feet from tail to head. Target species include trout (primarily late-winter/early-spring tailwater trout as conditions warm) and summertime smallmouth bass on the region's larger freestone rivers. Marvin also mentions fishing for steelhead on "the Alley" (the Lake Erie tribs in Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York) en route to the Lancaster Fly Fishing Show, adding a steelhead context that reinforces Mac's recent spey fishing experience in the Pacific Northwest.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How can two-handed casting techniques improve my fishing on small Appalachian streams?
Mac Brown explains that many classic Appalachian pools run 60–70 feet from tail to head, which requires longer casts than most anglers expect. By learning spey and switch casts on a single-handed rod, you can position yourself at the tail of a pool, cover the entire pool with precise presentations, gain a longer natural drift and keep large trout unaware of your presence — all without back-casting room.
What is the best starting point for learning spey and switch casting?
According to Mac, the roll cast is the foundational "get out of jail free card" of fly casting and the essential gateway to all spey and switch moves. Anglers often underestimate the roll cast because their overhead cast feels stronger, but once the roll cast is dialed in, the setup-and-deliver logic of the full spey/switch toolkit becomes accessible and rewarding.
When is the right time to fish late-winter trout in the southern Appalachians?
Marvin and Mac both note that warming air temperatures in late winter don't automatically mean fish are active — water temperature is the real indicator. The advice is to take advantage of warmer days (40–65°F air temps) that follow prolonged cold snaps, check water temps before committing and expect elevated fish activity when a genuine warmup follows an extended deep freeze.
How do two-handed casting techniques translate to smallmouth bass fishing?
Mac confirms that spey and switch casts are highly effective for summertime smallmouth fishing on rivers like the Little Tennessee, Pigeon and Tuckaseegee. Figure-of-eights, snake rolls and snap Ts are all applicable, particularly where overhanging trees and river bends limit back-cast room — exactly the conditions that characterize southern Appalachian smallmouth water.
What casting programs does Mac Brown offer for serious anglers?
Mac offers a range of programs through Mac Brown Fly Fish, including five-day guide schools, two- and three-day weekend casting schools (including specialty formats focused exclusively on wet fly or dry fly) and single-session casting lessons. Weekend scheduling is intentional — designed for anglers who can't take weekday time off work — and upcoming show appearances (Pleasanton, CA and Lancaster, PA) include all-day casting classes as well.
Related Content
S7, Ep 16 – Simplifying Complexity: Effective Teaching Strategies in Fly Fishing with Mac Brown
S7, Ep 20 – Practice Makes Perfect: Mac Brown on Mastering Casting Techniques
S6, Ep 141 – Mastering Cold Weather Fly Fishing with Mac Brown
S7, Ep 54 – Chasing Smallmouth: Topwater Tactics for Summer Success with Jake Villwock
S7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac Brown
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In this episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash reconnects with Mac Brown — Master Casting Instructor and owner of Mac Brown Fly Fish in Bryson City, North Carolina — for another installment of Casting Angles. Fresh off the fly fishing show circuit, Mac shares firsthand reflections on the Denver and Bellevue shows before pivoting to an enthusiastic discussion on the practical value of spey and switch casting techniques for Appalachian trout and smallmouth fishing. The conversation explores how two-handed casts — snake rolls, snap Ts, snap Cs, Z-casts and figure-eights — can be applied with a standard single-handed 9-foot 5-weight to navigate tight water, cover long pools on streams like the Davidson and Deep Creek and reach fish from a distance in late winter conditions. Mac and Marvin also preview upcoming shows in Pleasanton, California and Lancaster, Pennsylvania, while closing with a timely reminder to monitor water temperatures as mid-Atlantic and Southern Appalachian waters begin warming out of the deep freeze.
EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Mac Brown - Guide, Casting Instructor, and Author at Mac Brown Fly Fish (Bryson City, Western North Carolina)
In this episode: Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown shares strategies for applying spey and switch casting techniques to everyday single-handed fly rod fishing in Appalachian trout streams and smallmouth rivers, alongside a firsthand recap of the 2026 fly fishing show circuit. Topics include two-handed casting for trout in tight Appalachian water, transferring spey moves to single-handed rods, late winter trout activity windows and the value of formal casting instruction.
Key fishing techniques covered:
- Applying two-handed cast setups (snake roll, snap T, snap C, Z-cast, A-cast) on a single-handed 9-foot 5-weight
- Roll casting as the foundational "get out of jail free" technique in tight Appalachian water
- Covering long pools from the tailout position for late winter trout on streams like the Davidson River and Deep Creek
- Line management and switch casting for summer smallmouth on rivers like the Tuckaseegee and Pigeon
- Monitoring water temperature during late winter warm-up windows for opportunistic trout fishing
Location focus: Western North Carolina (Deep Creek, Davidson River, Tuckaseegee River, Pigeon River), Watauga River (Tennessee/Virginia border region), Steelhead Alley (Pennsylvania tributaries), Pacific Northwest (steelhead water)
Target species: Trout (late winter), steelhead, smallmouth bass
Equipment discussed: Single-handed 9-foot 5-weight fly rod, two-handed/spey rods for steelhead; Mac Brown Fly Fish guide school and specialty casting schools (macbrownflyfish.com)
Key questions answered:
- How do you apply spey and switch casting techniques with a single-handed fly rod?
- What are the best casting strategies for tight, tree-lined Appalachian trout pools?
- When should you start fishing for trout again after a prolonged winter cold snap?
- What fly fishing shows is Mac Brown teaching at in 2026?
- How do two-handed casting techniques improve smallmouth bass fishing on rivers?
Best for: Intermediate to advanced anglers interested in casting technique refinement, Appalachian trout and smallmouth fishing, fly fishing show education and Western North Carolina guide schools
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Marvin Cash
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. We're back with another Casting Angles with the man himself, Mac Brown. Mac, how are you?
Mac Brown
I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin?
Marvin Cash
Just trying to stay out of trouble. You literally are traveling. Mac.You were up at what, two or three o' clock in the morning, west coast time and literally have only been back from Bellevue for probably less than four hours, right?
Mac Brown
That's right. Yeah. We got an early flight and got back home right in time for my son to pick me up from UNCA and he got me back here about 4:30.
Marvin Cash
Well, there you go.And you know that we can talk about the show in a minute but you got a break between Denver and, and Bellevue, you actually got a chance to do a little bit of spay casting for Steelhead, right?
Mac Brown
Yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun.Got to play with that for three days and that was a lot of fun just getting out there and you know, we talk, we teach that a lot with, with lessons through the year, but to get to actually fish, it's a little, you know, there was some things because we're doing it on the grass a lot of the times in a lesson, of course, when you start holding 50, 60ft of line that you're going to shoot in your fingers and how you're going to implement all that, it was fun. It made me work through a bunch of little things real quick because that's not what we do on the grass, you know.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.The interesting thing too is, you know, and I remember fishing with Jeb hall at Davidson River Outfitters is that you know, you know, you just, you can take those two handed casts and apply them on a single handed normal fly rod. You don't even have to do trout spay.
Mac Brown
That's right. Yeah. All the, all the similar setup moves and delivery. Of course, if somebody likes, you know, roll casting, basically everything.The roll cast kind of the get out of jail free card in flycast. And I think that's what keeps, you know, a lot of people from trying it.They go, ah, my rod cast isn't really, you know, as good as their overhead, which is, it's not that way for anybody. So the rod cast, yeah, they gotta work at the roll cast a little bit more than a overhead cast.But once they have a roll cast, it makes it really free to break, you know, break free where everything's a set up, deliver, set up, deliver. It makes it pretty rewarding. Yeah.
Marvin Cash
And the great thing is, you know, there Are all these situations, particularly in our part of the world, where the water's tight. Right.And, you know, having a, you know, more than just kind of the traditional roll cast that we know about and putting those two handicasts in your repertoire just with your, you know, your 9 foot 5 weight, it opens up a lot more avenues for presentation.
Mac Brown
Yeah, it does. Even on like.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.
Mac Brown
Small park stream water. Yeah. A lot of the way the pools are designed with overhanging trees.You can, you know, a lot of the pools, like even up on the Davidson or here where I live on Deep Creek, you get these pools that are 60, 70ft from the. Where it tails out, you know, so if you want to sit down at the bottom and, and cover stuff up there, it's not little shortcasts like people think.People think, I'm going to Appalachia. It's a little short water. No, it's. It's big casting.I mean, when you think about it, to sit down there at the bottom and put stuff up at the head of it, you know how a lot of it'll go river left or river right, all the current.And a lot of times that's the best way to, to fish that kind of water coming out of winter, you know, because you get a lot longer float, you're gonna pick out the best prime, you know, prime. Big fish doesn't have a clue you're there because you're far enough away. There's a lot of good things happen when you do that kind of fishing.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And also too, in our part of the world, it's a really great tool. You know, another place you can use it is a great tool for smallmouth fishing.
Mac Brown
Oh, for sure. Like come summertime, you know, even on, like going down, like the little T here or the, or the pigeon or. A lot of people will do.Do that on the Tuckaseegee right through town.But there's, there's a lot of places where that can come back into play using figure of eights and, and just all the different, you know, snake rolls, snap T, snap Cs, Z cast, A cast. It just goes on and on. So it's just, it's fun. It's a lot of fun thinking about, well, how am I going to do this one?And then once people get familiar with that, what's really fun about it is when they're starting to do it and they're not thinking about any of the deliveries. So in other words, they don't have a favorite one. They just run them through a whole Module of eight or nine of them.Whenever it hits them, you know, they just do it. That's the, that's kind of the Zen, I think of the, of the whole trout spay switch cast, spay cast, whatever we call it.I mean, they're all the same at all the same motions. So once, once that is kind of in place, I think it makes it real rewarding for people.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, absolutely.And you know, to just to back up a little bit, you know, why don't you give us the 30,000 foot view of how the Denver show was for you and how Bellevue was and then we'll talk about the last two shows that are coming up.
Mac Brown
Okay. Yeah, Denver, Denver was really, really busy. I didn't really have a whole lot of free time to go even through the floor. But I don't know the numbers.I heard, I heard some of them that worked. The show talked about like 18,000. That was in Denver. So that was a really good turnout.That's still the biggest show, I'm sure it's the biggest show on planet Earth.So it was just so many people of different ages that are enthusiastic and excited to be there and excited to, you know, go around and see all the things educationally as well as all the different booths about, you know, exotic trips. And the thing I like about Denver too, you see a lot of young people.There's a whole lot of young people that show up in Denver and that's, that's a win, win, you know, to see, see people in their 30s and 40s and excited about it. And that was a great course. The classes and everything were really busy in Denver and so was Bellevue.Saturday was a real good day in Bellevue and we had a good time, did a distance class that evening, met a little girl, flew in from Beijing, China. I think that's the first time that's ever happened to me someone's come from that far away just for the two and a half hour class.And it was a distance class and she was a real talented young lady. And about an hour into it she starts bombing out 95 foot cast over the end, just one after the other. She was real, real trainable.And so that's, that's exciting. I think she stayed one more day, went up to Whistler to snowboard on Sunday and she flew back to China today.So she came for two days to do those two things. So it was kind of exciting to meet somebody that would have come that far away to spend time in a class with, you know.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it's they've got I guess got a week off and then I guess in about 10 days or so you're going to fly out to Pleasanton, right?
Mac Brown
Yep.The next up is Pleasanton, California and looking to get that, that one going with the, we go out early for the all day class again, you know, with Gary and right now it's not a whole lot. I don't think there's many signed up in it. So I'm going to plug that a lot this week on social media.It's a tough sale out there because you got Oakland and Golden Gate both and they teach free on every Saturday, you know, so then people think well why would I pay money if I can go there? So it's a little bit tougher to sell that in that city, you know.
Marvin Cash
Got it.And then you know, after Pleasanton we've got a little bit of a break and then I guess what is it the second weekend in March you and I will be together in Lancaster.
Mac Brown
Yeah, I'm looking forward to Lancaster because that's a, that's a good vibe too for that show. I really like Lancaster show. You get a lot of the folks from all over, you know, pa and there's just a lot of, lot of.I think it's a lot of young people that show up always at Lancaster too.It's a little smaller show of course in Denver but the people that are there really want to be there and they're enthusiastic at all the presentations and seminars in the classroom and you know, they're pretty enthusiastic bunch.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of funny. So I'm actually going to fish my way to you.I'm actually going to steelhead fish on the alley for three or four days and then come to Lancaster for the show. So I'll see you there.And I'm excited, you know, I guess Ben just recently released the class schedule and I'll be be teaching Saturday morning my Four Seasons in the trout. Right. You remember this from last year, Trout food and you.So I'll be doing that at 10 o' clock on Saturday morning in the catch room and then the introductory class that you and I worked on that I taught in Edison, I'm going to offer that again. I think it's from 2 to 4:30 on Saturday. So super excited.I think some folks have already been signing up but to your point, I'll be doing the exact same thing on social media and in the newsletter and everything, getting the word out and it'll be great to see folks.
Mac Brown
Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to, looking forward to that when then we get back and we go right into school mode. So we, we got a school I think right after Lancaster, like a few days. Right, right. Just a few days after it.So then that's a, you know, five day school. Then we're right back into season. So I'm, I'm looking forward to getting all that started.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, it's kind of funny, you know, it's.At least you got, you were able to steal a few days to, to fish for yourself and you know, know I'll drop links to the show note in the show notes with the fly fishing show stuff.But for folks that want to get in touch for e. Any of your guide schools, skill classes, casting lessons, guide trips, any of that good stuff, where should they go?
Mac Brown
The easiest one probably Mac Brown Fly Fish and it'll take you to the guide school page or, or the other programs here like the two day casting schools. And you know there's a lot of two and three day schools through the year like on specifically just on wet fly, just on dry fly.And a lot of times that's more convenient for people that have a real 9 to 5. That's why we do a lot more of those on the weekend because a lot of them, you know, can't do it during the week.So we don't want to make them dig in their vacation.Marvin, come to, to come do it during the weekday, you know, so, so yeah, they can find all those dates on the website under, under specialty classes in the menu.
Marvin Cash
Absolutely. You know folks, it's actually we're, we're going to come out of the deep freeze for a little bit.I think we're going to actually have a pretty warm week in the mid Atlantic and then it's going to start to cool.Nothing like, you know, it has been for the last, I don't know, four to six weeks, but which means it's a good opportunity, you know, to get out there on these warmer days, check the water temperature. Things start to warm up in the water. You know, the air may be comfortable, but the water still might be cold.But you know, we start to be able to kind of sneak out there and kind of catch these warmer late winter days and catch a few trout.
Mac Brown
Yeah, that sounds good. That's, that's one, one thing I thought of out there in Bellevue after it was so cold.You know, when we went west it was down single digits at night here, like zero to two degrees every night. I thought, man, I wish I was home. As soon as it warms up, you know, 40, 50 degree day, it's going to be epic.And I think that's what happened when I was gone, because it warmed up. It was 65 when I flew in today into Asheville. So I'm sure there's been some good, really good activity there on the water with that kind of warmup.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, well, I got a few nice ones last week on the Watauga, so I can't complain. But you know, folks, if it's cold where you are and you fish, tie some flies. Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mag.
Mac Brown
Tight lines, Marvin.
Guide | Casting Instructor | Author
Mac Brown is the owner of Mac Brown Fly Fish and Fly Fishing Guide School in Western NC. Mac created the first full-time fly fishing guide service in Western North Carolina. The first Delayed Harvest on the Upper Nantahala River in early 1993 was also a result of his efforts.
Mac Brown is the author of “Casting Angles” which is a fly casting handbook for those on the journey of understanding the mechanics of the cast. The ACA, FFI, and others have endorsed this text as a reference for instructors as well. Mac is a Master Casting Instructor through the Fly Fishers International.
