S8, Ep 14: Crafting Connections: Blane Chocklett on Fly Design and Conservation at Tie Fest

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. And we're back with another Chocklett Factory with the man himself, Blane Chocklett.Blane, how are you doing this morning?

I'm good, buddy. How are you doing?

Just trying to stay out of trouble. I think both of us have been kind of running around like chickens with our heads cut off. You've got.You've gotten home and you're turning right back around and you're gonna travel a little bit, and then you're gonna ultimately, I guess, end up kind of towards the end of this month down at Tie Fest.

Yeah, man, it's. Grass is not growing under my feet just like always. I've already been on the road five weeks this year, and, you know, it's. It's been great.You know, it's part of.Part of what I do and spreading that Chocklett Factory love and educating people, and we got a lot of things we're working on, but, yeah, it's part of being on the road is like, you know, kind of sharing what we're doing and bringing it to the communities of our dealers and stuff like that and getting them on board of what I'm. What I'm doing so they have a great understanding of. Of our products and design so they can educate their. Their clientele.And another big part of it is me seeing other parts of the world and different fish and fisheries and applying what I've seen in different areas and bringing it to those waters and seeing how fish react, because, you know, a redfish in one part of the world is not the same as it is in other parts. And it's. So it's important for one.For me to be able to see that because, you know, not looking through keyholes and seeing the broad picture, you know, could be clarity of water pressure of fish, you name it. And just seeing how fish react to my patterns in different parts of the world is very important to me.And I usually will take what I see in those areas and apply it and with new designs or tweaks or whatever that may be. And, you know, another big part of that, too, is, you know, being.Being on the road so much and trying to keep the family together and not missing my son's life, you know, it's important to me to bring them along with me when I can.And the opportunity presented itself lately here when we just got back from Alabama, and, you know, it's been a long winter, cold winter, not being able to get Tyler out. So he was excited to be able to get out on the water a couple days and it was, it's. It was great.You know, Alabama coastline is highly overlooked and got a buddy down there, same glass at Flyway Charters that I met last year when I was doing some of the Jack Project stuff and the migration patterns and tagging jacks with Marcus at Mississippi State and got to meet Sam. We hit it off and just happens to be from Lynchburg, which shows you how small this world is. And you know, he hit it off.He's got a little lodge where he hosts people that come in and it's perfect place for us to stay while we were there, when we were visiting community Fly and supply down in, down on the coast down there in Alabama.Fairly new shop, but you know, they have an online presence they've had for a little while with Space coast flies and great, great bunch of people and you know, did a little bit of a casting demonstration and then, then did the normal fly tie and demos and class and stuff like that. So it's just a great area, great fishery, beautiful water.You know, you get that influence of Florida clear water and a little bit of that influence from that Mississippi Delta area.So it's kind of a area where things kind of merge and get a little bit of everything there and highly recommend it for people that are looking for different areas to fish. You know, it's, you know, great fishery for redfish, black drum, different times of the year, triple tail, obviously jack creval and sheepshead.So it's, it's a, it's a great place. Love it down there. Be a place I would be thinking about heading down more often for sure. And you know, it.For me it's important for areas that aren't quite as familiar with my products to go visit.You know, it's, it's kind of why, you know, I was up in the Northeast because, you know, being Bobby's territory up there and the beast flies and you know, all that tradition, you know, if it's me, it's. For me it's important because I fished these fisheries, right?And I fished them all over and you know, you see what the products and designs that I've created do. But you know, it's sometimes it's hard to. Hard to beat that tradition, you know, and people by nature are reluctant to change.But for me it's important to kind of not beat, beat it in their heads, but to really show em why, you know, why this is different, why this is an advancement, why this is whatever it may be.And that kind of goes into those Spreader dams, which I'm showing a lot of new people that don't understand that, you know, where the difference in reverse tying and how great that is and what a great design that was from Bobby. Right.But the reason, years ago, with the T bone design and, you know, the resilience of bucktail collapsing over time and skinning out, and you spend so much time on a fly that where these spreaders or these dams that I created, the supports really help aid and the longevity of those flies. Right. And I. I know that you had some questions about that.And, you know, for me, it's a big part of what I'm trying to do is, is really educate people. Because what I do find out in my travels is, you know, I put these products out, and then people don't really know what to do with them after that.

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean.Cause I've been lucky enough to, you know, work with you on all the stuff we did during COVID and, you know, we'd fish together and hang out and all that sort of stuff.And when I saw the dams come out, you know, I was always thinking about, you know, the conversations you and I have about, you know, water flowing around and through the fly.

Right. And.

And one of the big differences, right. Obviously, if you put a piece of plastic with a spreader dam in the body of a fly, you're getting zero water flow through.And so I was kind of curious if, you know, that was a problem where there were times you wanted some water going through, or if your goal was to absolutely block water going through the body of the fly.

Absolutely. So, you know, with Bobby's design, he was trying to get the illusion of mass with castability. Right.And he was relying on the tips of the bucktails to get that tickling flow of movement. Right. So that was a huge advancement in fly design and what I picked up, you know, with the game changer concept and the T bones years ago.But when you start diverting water from the center of the fly, not only are you getting the fibers to move, but you're also, with that diversion of water, you're starting to get that. You're starting to get more of a realistic swimming action that a fish really makes.So without the diversion of water and water flowing through it, you're not gonna. You're not gonna get that serpentine swimming action because you're not blocking water flow.And as soon as you start diverting water from the middle of the fly, that's. That's what starts that process of that left to right, side to side, serpentine action, right?And the things that I've learned over the years is through trial and error basically is mess around and find out. It started put, you know, putting those pieces of the puzzle together for me. And it really adds into Bobby's design.It really, you know, whether you want to do like a beast style with a diversion of water in the middle, that's going to give you more of that serpentine action.But if you take that design and then you, you kind of go more into the, like the bucktail style game changer or even into synthetics, you're able to get that bigger profile silhouette with realism, right?You'll, you can, you can mimic that exact profile of the fish with the tail, you know, with that, you know, fish coming up underneath it and seeing that perfect profile and silhouette.That, and that's where I am with it, you know, and the thing I have noticed and, and have been educated by dealers and people that have taken the class or classes with me is like, you know, things that come naturally to me because I designed it.It's kind of left on the table for people where they don't really know what to do with it or, and, or how to stair step a fly from, you know, a thinner profile in the tail section and gradually building, you know, body as you go forward towards the head and shoulders. Right. So think of it this way.So we have these support discs, we have support oval shapes so you can get a taller profile silhouette a little narrower facing. Right. So more of that bunker or shad profile.But so we have some, the round supports where you're able to create more of that cylindrical shape, more like a sucker profile or, or, you know, more of any cigar shape type of bait. Right. So we have designs for all types of profiles and silhouettes.So, you know, the whole supports start like at 6 millimeter and that 6 millimeters from top to bottom, right. So the opening of the back. So if you think of a cone and you put a bucktail over a cone at 6 millimeters tall, you know, and that's.So it's going to be a narrower profile, right? So building forward, your building blocks would be you can jump up.So if you want a little taller or a bigger profile, instead of going to a 7 millimeter support, you might jump up to an 8 or 9 millimeter.So you're, you're gradually getting that taper that you want when you're building a beast style fly or a game changer style fly without adding a lot of Material, but you're still diverting water. And that's the whole concept behind it. And they go on up into the 20 some millimeters.So when you get up towards the shoulders and head, you're going to have more of a rise, right. All the way, you know, from top to bottom, side to side, depending if it's a support, round disc, or an oval shape. Right.So, you know, I've basically taken these supports to where you can gradually taper it up. Right. And keep them small, like small sizes, like, you know, flies that are under 7 inches, you would go 7 mil, 9 mil, 11 mil, 12 mil. Right.So you can build it that way, or you can just gradually taper up, you know, in consecutive way where you get that, you know, perfect graduation of size and shape that you're looking for. Right. So for me, you know, part of the thing is, is castability on flies, but for me also is profile, silhouette, and realistic movement.And this just builds on to what Bobby created years ago.And not only are you getting a support that's going to make the fibers that you use stay like that for the longevity of the fly, as long as you don't lose it. Right. So that wasn't very important to me. Right. So.And once we got the ability to be able to do that without using, you know, the reverse tying of the. The body tubing that I had forever, this was just a quicker way of doing it. And it's simplifying the tying process.You don't have to reverse a bucktail and try to guess what your shape and your lengths of your fibers should be. So now all you have to do is just tie that bucktail in and spin the bucktail around these supports, and you can tell what your tips length should be.So you can create that taper much easier, and you don't have to use as much materials you can. I mean, it gives you the freedom of it. It's a. It's a kind of a prosthetic for fly tires. You know, we don't have.People have busy lives and they don't have a lot of time to. To set out and tie, and they can get rusty.And, you know, one of the things that's always been difficult with a lot of people with reverse tying is getting everything tied in equal. Right. So, you know, one side of your bucktail may be sticking out too far and not. Not, I guess, behaving with your thread wraps. Right.So not only does this make it faster in a process, but it makes it so much easier as well. Yeah.

I mean, it's none of that, you know, to your point, stuff's not behaving. You got to put some resin on it, whack it with the light.You know, it's like, you know, once you get the length of like the bucktail or the synthetic you want, it's really about just getting even distribution around the hook. And that's a way easier task than what it used to be, right?

Oh, it is much easier. Much quicker, much easier. And you're, you're adding to the swimming action.You're not just relying on the tips of the bucktails to just kind of flutter in the currents or whatever. Now you're getting a litter. A literal swimming action, a serpentine side to side swimming action that a fish makes. Yeah.So all, all of it's a win win. It's just a matter of educating people and going forward. I'm doing, I'm in the process and putting videos together on how you do these things.And, and you know, that's a big part of what I'm building too is, is education, because education's everything and that's what I'm finding out.And the more I can educate the people on, on, on the process and the products that I've designed, you know, one, they're going to understand it better and apply it to something that they want to create.But also, obviously it helps me as a re, as a, as a distributor and as a, a retailer to be able to sell more products and be able to create new things and get stuff that, you know, that's in the hopper to come out later on. You know, it helps, helps me, it helps the dealers, it helps the consumers.

Yeah, absolutely.And if we fast forward a little bit, you know, folks want to, you know, one had the opportunity to talk to you about all this stuff and see it all in action. You know, you're going to be down, I guess. What is it going to be Saturday, March 21, down in Vero beach at Carter Andrew's Place for Lefty.Crazy tie fest again, right?

Oh yeah. Yep, that's, that's a, a show that's near and dear to my heart.You know, we did it for years up in Maryland over on the Eastern Shore where, you know, Tony, director of asga would put that on and Lefty and Bobby and Clouser and we would all come and do this event every year with him and in the name of conservation and you know, we, after Lefty passed, we kind of just didn't do it. And you know, as you know, I've talked about it for, for a long time.You know, when we lost Bobby, it was really important that I, that we bring everybody together to celebrate the people that we have, all the people that's come before us and just get together and celebrate the sport that we love and you know, and in the process raise money to fight fish conservation and give ASGA the ability to move forward and to get the science that we need to support the policymakers that put it all together. And without that science, you can't get anything done.And it's important to me as a father and as an angler and as a guide that we have healthy fisheries and healthy fish populations.And that way, one, our sport does well and two, we have a future for our up and coming anglers like my son who just turned 10 and be able to take him to places and get to see these amazing fisheries and amazing fish. And it's very important. There's so many different aspects of Lefty's tie Fest.You know, Lefty was always all about conservation and building the sport and sharing your knowledge. And this is an opportunity to give back and donate time and, and get all these amazing legends together where we can love on them.Just cherish the times that we have because, you know, a lot of them are aging out and getting older and going away.And we saw that with losing Flip this year or last year and you know, it's just, it's becomes more important to me as I get older too, as you see these heroes of you, of my youth not here anymore.And I want to spend as, you know, selfishly, I want to spend as much time with the ones that we have left and, and honor the ones that we've lost and build that future like so the whole premise of, of of Tide Fest is to bring together the community and celebrate it, but also bring up the up and coming, right?So it's really important, like the Chase Smiths of the world, the Fletchers of the world, these people are doing really cool stuff and get them involved in this and have them meet all these great people and industry stuff.You know, we can't thank Yeti enough or in Patagonia and Scientific Angler and a lot of these big brands that are supporting this event and helping us and allowing us to do it. And of course, Carter Andrews is gracious enough to let us do it again at his place and, and you know, that.And that just embodies what Lefty was all about.I mean, he always taught us to share our knowledge, support people that's coming up, you know, to make sure we have a, a bright future and cultivate that. Right.And just bring everybody together where we're able to share our fly designs or, and having people like Andy Mill coming and talking about fighting big, big tarpon or you know, doing casting demonstrations or.And Rob for Fordyce who's, you know, given up his time during tarpon season to come up and share what his knowledge of fishing, however many years he's been guiding down in the Keys for tarpon, snook permit, you name it, offshore stuff and doing demonstrations and, and whatnot. And you know, it.It's really cool because it's, it's not many places in the world where you could bring a bunch of legends together where people that follow them or, or may have, may be heroes of these, you know, of these people, you know, the, where they can go and hang out and talk to them. There's not many places where that happens in our world. I mean, it's like we always talked about it.How many, how often can somebody just go and spend a couple hours hanging out with the Babe Ruth or Michael Jordan's of the world, right? And you know, that's what it was. That's what was so special.Having these type of events where I got to spend time with Lefty and Popovics and Clauser and you name it, you know, all these legends that we've had over the years and it's just really important.I think it means a lot to people to be able to do that and to be able to bring it to Florida at Vero beach area, at Carter's and having all, all the industry come together to support this in the name of conservation and, and you know, what's not to love about it, Right?

Yeah.And I think the thing too that I think, you know, just kind of, you know, the brief run of the day is it's kind of an all day thing where there's an outdoor festival followed by a benefit dinner.But I think to your point, I think what people need to understand if they can make it is, you know, this isn't just Blne Chocklett being able to hang out with Lefty for two hours. It's a very intimate, small event and so pretty much anyone that shows up is going to be able to.You know, it almost reminds me of like some of the smaller tying events where you actually really get to talk to people as opposed to those massive shows where, you know, it's just a massive humanity and everybody's rush, rush, rush. I mean, you know, if you want to talk to Andy Mill for a half an hour about, you know, casting or tarpon fishing. He'll be there.And it's that kind of an event.

It is, yep. And that's how we wanted it.We wanted it to be more of a celebration slash party slash festival where it isn't like, I mean, even though we do have special events planned throughout the day for casting demonstrations or whatever, we have kids events. TFO's putting together some stuff for us to be able to teach our up and coming youth. If so kids want to come.Kids under 14 are able to come in with, with their parents to be able to learn from the best. And we're, you know, we're trying to make it, you know, more of a family event.And you're right, I mean it is not like the average show where it, it's just so much hustle, bustle where we wanted it designed to, where it was more of a hang. Right. Which is what we love about our sport.It's the people you share your days on the water with, you know, and this is a great opportunity for if you've ever wanted to meet some of these great people and, and talk to them and whatever, this is the event to do it and you know, it in embodies what we feel that left we would want and that's what we're trying to do.

So if we look, you know, you're a headliner. Carter Andrews is a headliner. I think I saw Jason Taylor on the website. Thank you.Mitch mentioned, you know, Fletcher Sams I know is going to be there. Steve Maldonado, can you kind of give folks a little bit of a feel for some of the other folks? I know Andy's going to be there as well.

Yeah, yeah. So obviously, yeah, Carter Hillary's coming back. Yeah, we have, you know, we have a pretty good lineup of people.You know, some obviously, you know, there's things that happen where, you know, we weren't able to get things moving along faster or fast enough where certain people have already, some legends already have things planned, but we have quite a few amazing legends that are going to be there.Like I said, you know, the Rob Fordyces, Andy Mills, the Carter Andrews, the Hilary Hutchesson's, you know, and we have the up and coming people like Chase and Fletcher and a lot of great tires.And you know, it's, it's one of those things, you know, I'm still waiting on a couple people, some surprises, but I can't, I can't give names to that yet. Because we haven't finalized some of it, but yeah, and then you have brands that are going to be there. Right. So it's just.It's just a great event having great people and legends and up and coming and up and comers and, you know, the coasters of the world and all that. You know, where you can see products, sunglasses, whatever, you know, fit, you know, to see what fits. Right, right.Talk fly lines with scientific anglers. You know, TFO is going to be there, you know, talking, having their rods displayed and being able to cast them.You know, there's areas to do all this stuff there. And, you know, being.Being in an outdoor environment in a beautiful place with great people and sharing the love, love, the support that we have is what it's all about.

Absolutely.And I will drop a link to the American Saltwater Guide Association Tie Fest page where people can get up to the date info and buy tickets and all that kind of good stuff.

Sounds good, and we appreciate that, bud.

Yeah, absolutely.And, you know, hopefully, you know, my plan is to see you in about three weeks and, you know, folks get it on the calendar and if you can't make it, you know, I guess too bad for you, you should go fishing. Or at a minimum, just tie flies. Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines. Blane, you too.

Thank you.