S8, Ep 7: Casting Foundations and Fishing Frameworks: Insights with Mac Brown
Episode Overview
Casting instructor Mac Brown joins host Marvin Cash on The Articulate Fly for another Casting Angles conversation, this time focused on the upcoming Edison Fly Fishing Show and the casting education landscape. This episode offers serious fly anglers essential insights into proper casting fundamentals, debunking common myths about distance casting and the overemphasis on double hauling in favor of loop control and efficiency. Mac and Marvin discuss their collaborative teaching approach at major fly fishing shows including Marlborough and Edison, where Mac teaches alongside legends like Gary Borger and Glenda Powell. The conversation emphasizes foundational casting mechanics that can eliminate 85-90% of common casting problems, the critical importance of systems thinking in fly fishing and the distinction between efficient movement patterns versus exhausting casting movements. Whether you're preparing for saltwater fishing or simply want to cast more efficiently with less effort, this episode provides the framework for building a solid casting foundation that makes learning advanced techniques far easier.
Key Takeaways
- How to eliminate up to 90% of your casting problems by mastering foundational mechanics rather than chasing advanced techniques like the double haul
- Why loop control and loop efficiency are the true keys to distance casting, with proper technique often outperforming hauling attempts
- When to prioritize learning line shooting and efficient loop formation over the overrated double haul
- How to cast more efficiently by incorporating full arm movement instead of relying on wrist-only casting that leads to fatigue and other issues
- Why having a systematic process framework prevents anglers from collecting unrelated data points from videos and demos that create more problems than solutions
Techniques & Gear Covered
This episode focuses entirely on casting fundamentals and educational methodology rather than specific gear. Mac and Marvin emphasize loop control, loop efficiency and proper line shooting as the foundation of effective casting. They discuss the importance of power, path and pause, full arm incorporation versus wrist casting and the efficiency of movement patterns. The conversation challenges the American obsession with double hauling, noting that proper roll casting technique can achieve greater distance than poor hauling attempts. For saltwater applications where most fish are caught at 55 feet and closer, mastering these fundamentals proves far more valuable than advanced techniques built on a weak foundation.
Locations & Species
While this episode doesn't focus on specific fisheries or waters, Mac references saltwater fishing applications where understanding realistic casting distances matters most. The discussion acknowledges that the majority of saltwater fish are caught at 55 feet and closer, making efficient short to medium-range casting far more practical than extreme distance work. The conversation takes place in the context of major East Coast fly fishing shows (Marlborough, Massachusetts and Edison, New Jersey) where anglers from across the region gather to improve their skills. Mac's upcoming teaching schedule spans coast to coast, including stops at Bellevue and Lancaster, reflecting the national scope of casting education needs.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
What's more important for distance casting than the double haul?
Loop control and loop efficiency are the true foundations of distance casting. Mac emphasizes that the double haul is overrated in America, with anglers believing it's the "Holy Grail" they're missing. In reality, proper roll casting with efficient loops can outperform average hauling attempts. The key is learning when to shoot line and form efficient loops first, with the double haul only benefiting anglers once those foundational skills are mastered.
How can I cast more efficiently without getting fatigued?
Incorporate your entire arm instead of relying solely on wrist movement. Mac notes that wrist-only casting leads to fatigue, carpal tunnel issues and exhaustion on the water. The efficiency of movement, once anglers understand proper mechanics, makes casting smoother and less physically demanding. Marvin emphasizes letting the rod do the work rather than trying to overpower the cast.
Why do so many anglers struggle despite watching videos and attending demos?
The fly fishing community has failed to provide anglers with complete systems and frameworks. Instead, people collect unrelated data points from internet snippets, YouTube videos and demos without understanding how everything fits together. Mac and Marvin stress the importance of process-oriented thinking with a framework that covers everything from gear preparation to landing fish, rather than isolated techniques that don't connect to a larger system.
What distance should I really be focused on for saltwater fly fishing?
Most saltwater fish are caught at 55 feet and closer. Rather than obsessing over extreme distance casting, anglers should focus on efficient, accurate casts at realistic fishing ranges. This shifts the priority from learning advanced techniques to mastering foundational loop control and line shooting that work effectively at practical distances.
Related Content
S7, Ep 20 - Practice Makes Perfect: Mac Brown on Mastering Casting Techniques
S7, Ep 16 - Simplifying Complexity: Effective Teaching Strategies in Fly Fishing with Mac Brown
S6, Ep 10 - Casting Angles with Mac Brown
S6, Ep 141 - Mastering Cold Weather Fly Fishing with Mac Brown
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In this Casting Angles episode of The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash catches up with renowned casting instructor Mac Brown about upcoming fly fishing shows in Edison and beyond. Mac shares insights from his teaching schedule, including sessions with Gary Borger and Glenda Powell, focusing on foundational casting skills that can eliminate 85-90% of casting problems. The conversation emphasizes loop control and efficiency over the often-overrated double haul, with Mac explaining how proper technique matters more than strength or complex hauling for most fishing situations, including saltwater fishing where most fish are caught within 55 feet. Both instructors discuss the importance of process-oriented learning and giving anglers systematic frameworks rather than disconnected tips, covering everything from proper arm mechanics to understanding when drag actually helps catch more fish.
EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Mac Brown - Professional Casting Instructor and Guide
In this episode: Casting instructor Mac Brown discusses foundational fly casting education and upcoming teaching opportunities at major fly fishing shows. Topics include efficient casting mechanics, the reality of distance casting and proper learning processes for developing anglers.
Key fishing techniques covered: • Loop control and loop efficiency fundamentals • Roll casting for distance • Proper arm mechanics versus wrist casting • Line shooting technique • Process-oriented approach to presentation • Understanding when drag helps versus hurts
Location focus: Fly fishing shows in Marlborough (Boston area) and Edison, New Jersey
Target species: Discussion includes saltwater fishing applications
Equipment discussed: Fly casting fundamentals applicable across all rod weights and situations
Key questions answered: • Do I need to learn the double haul to cast farther? • What's more important than the double haul for casting distance? • How can I eliminate most of my casting problems? • What distance do I actually need to catch most fish? • Why does wrist casting cause fatigue and injury?
Best for: Beginner to advanced anglers interested in improving casting fundamentals, efficiency and developing systematic approaches to fly fishing
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Marvin Cash
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. We're back with another Casting Angles with the man himself, Mac Brown. Mac, how are you?
Mac Brown
I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin?
Marvin Cash
Just trying to stay out of trouble. How was Marlborough last weekend?
Mac Brown
Oh, it was great. The Patriots won. We had a little snow last night. Kind of held up the airport getting down here to Newark today.But good crowds, really good crowds up there over the weekend.And it's always fun to see people that are there wanting to grow and get a little better and look at all the new stuff there in the sport of fly fishing.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.And you're, you're one of those guys, you don't come home, you just kind of stay on one coast and kind of work all the classes and then you kind of go home a little bit. And then you'll stay out on the west coast the whole time, right?
Mac Brown
Pretty much. Pretty much. I think there's a break. Oh, I think I gotta come back after Bellevue. Cause there's, I think 10 days or something. Eight or 10 days.So I'll come back, then have to fly back out west, which I was hoping they were going to be a little closer, but we've already got the tickets and everything for that.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. So sliding into To Edison, you know, you start a day earlier than everybody else because you teach that day long class before the show starts.And so you did that with Glenda Powell up in Marlborough. But you'll be teaching on Thursday with Gary Borger, right?
Mac Brown
Yeah, yeah. And we're going to teach there Thursday morning.And Glenda, she sent me a message actually, since I talked to you this morning, so she's going to come, come be a part of it too. And I'm looking forward to that. I think it's going to be a good bunch. And we're going to do that all day.And then Friday morning you're going to kick us off there to about 8:30, I hear.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And you're going to sit in the back room and kind of watch. I'm really excited. You know, this is that course that we've worked on.We've offered it virtually before, you know, folks where like, you know, if you've seen my Instagram stories and my Instagram posts, like, we're really not kidding that, you know, if you take this foundation to heart, you can eliminate, you know, gosh, 85 to 90% of your casting problems. And you.And what that does is when you have that foundation just like building a House, like we've talked about before Mac, you know, then you can go and it's a lot easier to learn new techniques and, you know, add skills to your tool set, right?
Mac Brown
Oh, yeah, yeah, Definitely. Definitely will just from that, you know, we did. We did some distance classes up there in Marlborough, and I see. I do a demo right when.When you finish your class on a. A topic for the casting demos. Increased distance. And, you know, everybody thinks usually Marvin. Oh, that means Marvin, we gotta learn to double haul.To be honest, that's way overrated in America because everybody thinks that that's the key to the kingdom, the Holy Grail they're missing. And the reality is loop control and loop efficiency.I mean, just watching demos, I mean, you can sit there and roll cast at a demo and put it out, you know, further than most people that are trying to haul all day long. So what is far? People have to answer that honestly first. Where do we catch most saltwater fish? 55ft and closer. So I think.I think a big part of all this is first really saying no. The Holy Grail is learning when to shoot line and form efficient loops. That's really the whole thing of fly cast. Now, double haul.Not say it wouldn't benefit somebody, but I will say it would benefit somebody when those other two things are there first.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.And I would say, you know, the main takeaway I'm trying to give folks, you know, from the class on Friday morning, and there are a few slots left, by the way, folks. You can go to the website and sign up, but it's really that foundation.But the real takeaways is I want to help people understand that, you know, to have a nice smooth cast, you don't have to kill yourself. Right? You don't have to be strong, let the ride do the work. And so we're going to kind of work through all that sort of stuff. And also some tricks.I mean, you know, you and I talk about, you know, power path and pause all the time, but there's some things that you can do mechanically that will keep. Keep your car on the road, for lack of a better word.
Mac Brown
Exactly. Yeah, that. That's really true. And the efficiency of just the efficiency of movement, once people understand what it is they're trying to do from.From basically just how they move is a huge part of it. You know, it's like some of the classes over the years that on the road you'll see. You'll see a lot of different things.And basically all those things come back in there's. Only so many ways like say casting horizontal or casting vertex. There's only so many alternatives on the table.You know, if I guess that's the way I should say it. But you'll see people attempt to cast distance, for instance, just hold their arm still and try to do it.100% risk that they figured that out at 1954. That wasn't the way to do it. So you gotta. There's no point of sitting there saying let's make that guy a little better.He's trying to wrist cast because that's just gonna do what when he goes out, he's gonna be tired, he's gonna be fatigue. He'll be like, Mac, I got carpal tunnels in him. My wrist hurts.So I mean when you see something that, that, that has that type of movement, there's ways to make that much more efficient by, by incorporating the whole arm.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, and I would say too, I mean, you know, folks that have listened to us over the years know that I'm a big process person. So I'm excited.I think Saturday, I think it's 11:15 in the release room in Edison, I give one of my favorite talks which is basically about, you know, setting yourself up for success with pro with good process, right?
Mac Brown
Oh yeah, that's. That's what it all is. And you know, we did a class Sunday. It was think in the morning there in Marborough and that's what the whole talk was.Two and a half hours. It was an infant class. But basically it was about process. You know, there's just so much stuff to get across.There's only so many hours, you know, like so much to do and so little time.So the biggest thing you can talk about in a program like that really is about the processes that people choose to do about be willing to change something like in the, you know, I mean, I don't mean change the, the fly. I'm not talking about change the fly or change just a leader. I'm not talking about those types of things.Everybody always thinks it's gear oriented process, but it's actually the process of what you're doing of, of changing, you know, for the water you're in. And yeah, I'm in the release room I think too for all those. That's funny, we got the same room. So you leave some good karma in there for me.
Marvin Cash
Well, I think you speak before me on that Saturday morning, but I think the thing folks about the process thing and you know, Mac and I have talked about this in a lot of different ways over the years is. And this isn't just unique to fly fishing, but I think we've done a disservice to the fly fishing community because we don't give people systems.And so people, like, see a snippet on the Internet or they watch a YouTube video or they go to a demo, but they don't have a framework. And so they end up learning a bunch of completely unrelated data points, and then they just have problems.And one of the big examples, you know, like, how many times have you heard drag is bad and it's just not true? I would tell you the accurate statement is unintentional or. Yeah, unintentional drag is bad. Right.You know, but there are times when drag is going to help you catch more fish.And so just giving people a framework, literally from before you put your boots and waiters and rods and reels in the car to putting the fish in the net. So I'm excited about that. And I know you've got a. I mean, you're.You know, you'll be going all day long till the sun goes down between teaching and demos and seminars and stuff, right?
Mac Brown
Yeah, it looks pretty busy. I'm actually looking at it while we're talking, and I have it on a. I always. I always do this on, you know, the little name thing they give you.I always have it on the inside. So I wrote it down in there already. So I learned that from Gary years ago. He goes, look the way to always have it together.Well, now I do it more on email, too, but I still have it on the little name thing. It just says, be here at this time, this time, this time. And I mean, at least then it gets you where you're supposed to be.It makes life a little easier.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, absolutely.So what I would say, folks, is, you know, you know, both of us love catching up with people that listen to the podcast or kind of follow us on social media or whatever. I know, at least for me, the easiest way to do that is probably for you to DM me on Instagram or shoot me an email. I'll be at the show all weekend.I think I leave, like, middle of the afternoon. I think I've got, like, a early evening, late afternoon flight back home. But, you know, love to catch up.You know, maybe carrying some butcher shop and articulate fly stickers would love to catch up with you. So if you want to hang out with the articulate fly, you know, or. Or Mac Brown, just at least shoot me a DM on Instagram or Shoot me an email.Mac, what's the best way if people want to kind of hang out with you at the show?
Mac Brown
Probably just like, what, after one of those seminars or demos or whatever, there's usually a like 20, 30 minute window before I have to be at something else. So just he's come up and introduce himself. I think probably the best way.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, you're a fan of Scotch and Copenhagen too, right?
Mac Brown
No, no, no, we don't do that on the road, Marvin.No, but I think that'd be the best way because I don't look at emails, I don't look at text when I'm, when I'm like at these events, it's too busy to look at any of that stuff. It's go, go, go, go. By Sunday night, you know, it's. You can celebrate because you're tired and it's like.But I don't really look at much of that until it's, till it's over.
Marvin Cash
You know, Fair enough. And so, you know, you'll be, I won't see you again on the show circuit until Lancaster.But you know, I know, you know, one of the things we've been working on kind of while you're in the show season is, you know, once you're done those, you'll slide into schools and guiding and all that stuff you want to folks know kind of generally what's on the horizon. You know, you've got a new mailing list people can sign up for and all that kind of good stuff.
Mac Brown
Yeah. But yeah, we got a subscribe thing that did really well up there in Boston.It has like newsletters, gonna be some more regular newsletter correspondence and there's gonna be some prizes and coupons for schools and educational programs.And the best way to get me with all that is gonna be just, you know, on the website, drop an email, but there's a subscribe button and that we'll have on the road to QR codes like in the seminar rooms and after the demos. And so all you gotta do is just point your phone and boom, it takes you to a thing and asks you a couple questions and then you're, then you're in.So makes it pretty easy for folks to, you know, to get in there and do that. And yeah, I'm excited. We got some prizes and stuff to give away still from Marlborough too.We'll probably announce that, you know, the next one for, for Marlborough and Edison.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, that'll be at the end of January. And so, you know, folks, I would say at least on the eastern seaboard, it's pretty darn cold.So, you know, if you're not close to Edison this weekend, maybe you should tie some flies. But, you know, if you're close to Edison, you know, come out, meet both of us. It would be great to see you.And if not, maybe sit at home and watch some college basketball, drink your favorite beverage and tie a few flies. Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac.
Mac Brown
Tight lines. Marvin, look forward to seeing you.
Marvin Cash
Absolutely.
Guide | Casting Instructor | Author
Mac Brown is the owner of Mac Brown Fly Fish and Fly Fishing Guide School in Western NC. Mac created the first full-time fly fishing guide service in Western North Carolina. The first Delayed Harvest on the Upper Nantahala River in early 1993 was also a result of his efforts.
Mac Brown is the author of “Casting Angles” which is a fly casting handbook for those on the journey of understanding the mechanics of the cast. The ACA, FFI, and others have endorsed this text as a reference for instructors as well. Mac is a Master Casting Instructor through the Fly Fishers International.
