BONUS: From Concept to Catch: A Deep Dive into the Tweaker with Fletcher Sams

Marvin Cash00:00:04

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Butcher Shop where the Meat Meets the Water. On this episode, I'm joined by Fletcher Sams, the mad scientist behind the Tweaker.Fletcher shares his passion for visual eats on swim bugs, and we take a deep dive into the tweaker, discussing the fishing problem that gave rise to it, the intricacies of its design and how to fish it. Like its creator, I think you're really going to enjoy this one.But before we get to interview, just a couple of housekeeping items to make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Butcher Shop. Be sure to subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice.We're only distributing episodes on the Articulate Fly for a limited time, and if you like the podcast, please tell a friend and subscribe and leave us a rating and review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out. And finally, a shout out to our sponsor. Trout Routes.I've known the team at Trout Routes almost before there was a team at Trout Routes. We all know streams are getting crowded, and chances are you're not the only one at your local access point.Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using Trout Routes Pro.With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities that others will overlook. Up your game and download the app today.Use code artfly20 artfly20 all one word for 20% off of your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com and a shout out to our friends at Schultz Outfitters.Schultz Outfitters is Southern Michigan's premier fly and tackle shop, and the guys at Schultz Outfitters are some of the fishiest dudes on the planet. Book a day on the water, swing by the shop or check out one of their many classes taught by some of the best anglers and tires in the game today.Check them out@schultzoutfitters.com or give them a shout at 734-544-1761. Now on to our interview. Well, Fletcher, welcome to the butcher shop, man.

Fletcher Sams00:02:05

Thanks for having me back.

Marvin Cash00:02:06

Yeah, I'm looking forward to our conversation. And before we take a deep dive into the tweaker, what have you been up to since bobbin.

Fletcher Sams00:02:14

Work and being a dad? You know, I've. I've snuck out some fishing trips here lately.It's been a good spring, but, you know, just hard to find those breaks with a, you know, less Than one year old in the house.

Marvin Cash00:02:29

Yeah, it's. That'll change your life for sure. I think we were commiserating before we started recording.I think if I end up going out of town this weekend, as I expect I'm going to have to. I'll have been out of town, I think, five of the last seven weekends.

Fletcher Sams00:02:40

That is just brutal. No, thanks.

Marvin Cash00:02:43

Yeah, I'm. I. I need to come up with an alternative plan, but as we kind of start drilling into the tweaker, you. Where'd the name come from?

Fletcher Sams00:02:52

You know, it. I always thought it would be kind of funny. Like, you know, Kelly has done all the, you know, sex joke names and everything like that.Just, you know, if I were gonna name a fly, it would be like some degenerate name.And so, you know, started messing with that bug, and then I just, like, kept changing things with it and tweaking it and just started calling it the Tweaker.One of my buddies wanted me to call it the Sex Changer when I first started tying them, because kind of had a dungeon head on a game changer platform. And, you know, thank God I didn't do that. But, you know, it's like, keep going and, you know, it's gonna be the.The tweaker, I guess, is where we landed on it.

Marvin Cash00:03:36

Yeah, that's funny. So we're expecting, like, flies like the meth head and some other variations in the future.

Fletcher Sams00:03:41

Yeah, you know, I've got the quack head. Um, and, you know, I'm working on one that I'm calling the low life. And, you know, hopefully just keep doing the same thing.

Marvin Cash00:03:50

Yeah. With a. With a little bit of a southern patina. Right.

Fletcher Sams00:03:54

Yeah, right, right, right. But near dwells.

Marvin Cash00:03:57

Yeah. And so, you know, Fletcher, I think it's always interesting.I always like to ask the fly designers to kind of share the hole in their fly box that they were trying to fill when they designed the pattern. You know, what was that hole when you started working on the tweaker?

Fletcher Sams00:04:12

You know, when I first started working on the bug, it was I. You know, where I fish, I'm. I'm kind of a homebody fishing because we've got kind of like a little paradise here in Middle Georgia.And I've got access to all kinds of different species, you know, trout, striper, 12 different species of bass, bowfin, gar, carp, buffalo, the, you know, just on and on and on. Right. And so in particular, like, one of my favorite things to do is fish for red eye bass. It's more of a Solo thing.And it's small to mid sized creeks. It's.If you are a brook trout fisherman, you know, we were kind of the southern range for brook trout up in north Georgia, but it's much the same water except for you're in middle Georgia except for in stead of the mountains. Right. And these fish don't get like 12 inch ones, like a really good vision. It's like an 18 inch small bout. Right.Like it's a decent sized fish, like 14 inches. A giant. Right. But it's really beautiful fish. And you know, in these like really tight creeks with a lot of canopy.One of my favorite bugs to throw is like one of Blaine's bugs, bugger changer. Right.And wanted something that I could have that was not going to have the same action as the bugger changer or do the same thing, but have a hookup presentation with a lighter weight bug that I could roll cast in that heavy cover. That's. That was the whole. Right.Is I thought that I could displace the weight with added buoyancy to the deer here, add it to that platform and just kind of see what happens. Right. And that kind of led down like a whole lot of different changes with that.But the problem specifically that I've started with was, you know, wanted something with less weight that was offset with like buoyancy for keel. Right. And would be hookup so that I could run it across some structure much like any hookup fly. Right.But what I started noticing when I started fishing it, you know, I wasn't. It's kind of my first foray into deer here. Seriously.And you know, wasn't very good at it and kind of had a lot of variation to the heads and started originally tying kind of like a wider, you know, dungeon kind of head.And then as I started messing with different head designs on the fly, just trying to get less buoyancy so that I could pierce the water and not stay in the film. Started kind of giving it more of a real narrow profile just to add that keel.And when I started doing that, I really started noticing that the fly was like super weedless. And I could throw it into brush piles, throw it into rock gardens and like get into cracks and just drag it out. Right.And so then I started looking at it more as like, okay, so I'm not so much looking for something that's lighter weight. That's great.You know, in that version of the fly you can do all that you need to do and you can broadcast it with a like five or six weight, you know, 20ft. Right. Which is what you need to be able to do.But chasing that weedless action and trying to get into different fish species and like, bigger species that we target in different areas kind of led me down a path of like, kind of chasing that real weedless nature of the bug. And where we ended up, it's got a whole lot of different action to it and a lot of different triggers.But the hole that I was originally trying to fill was something that was lighter weight but that would ride hook up in a creek.

Marvin Cash00:08:49

Got it. And so you mentioned Blaine's booker changer kind of any other tires influenced the design as you kind of evolved it?

Fletcher Sams00:08:56

Yeah, you know, like I said, I mean, it was, you know, starting out. It was, you know, I knew that I needed a lead head in order to get some weight into it.And so it started out literally with just a dungeon head on it.And, you know, I would say that, you know, having, you know, Kelly's knowledge out there about hair density and everything like that really helped out.And then I started, you know, kind of looking at all kinds of these, like, hair wizards that are like packing these big crazy bugs, like Cohen, like all those other guys that are just, you know, Andreas Anderson, all those dudes are just kind of, you know, wizards, and they're really packing those bugs tight and can do all this crazy stuff with hair.And really started to kind of mess with hair on its own and then kind of came back to that bug and started working on it and making it more of its own thing. But I would say that, you know, initially those two are like the initial inspiration for that bug.

Marvin Cash00:10:03

Got it. And so we kind of talked about the fishing problem, but you didn't mention bite trigger.So what kind of, you know, bite trigger did you want to incorporate into the fly?

Fletcher Sams00:10:12

So, you know, I knew that I wanted it to suspend. I did not want to have the jigging action, which, you know, a bugger changer does have a big jigging action.And it's one of my favorite flies of all time. But I wanted something that would just get into that middle column, especially when I'm going into the weedless nature of it.We started kind of looking at it as like, this is giving us an ability to put a fly that's going to animate and stall into a hole that doesn't see tentacle.And we started searching out water that would be difficult to put a non weedless lure or fly into and started seeing a lot of bites coming out of there. But the size that we were at, where it was like too small, right? The hook gauge was too light.And they were straightening out on big fish in these holes. And so we started upsizing the hooks on them.And when we started upsizing hooks, not just the size of the hook, but the gauge of the hook, the hook would kind of flop over to the side. Like the head would keel, right? Like the buoyancy, the deer hair and the weight of the lead eyes, it's perfect. It sit there and keel.But then the rest of the body would be kind of sideways in a goofy looking way, not a fishy looking way. Kind of like, it was like twisted. It's like a ribbon, you know.And so we started adding a little bit a keel weight, just trying to get just enough where we could get the hook to ride point up on a stall. And when we started adding that into the larger gauge hook flies and larger flies, the. The trigger that we were seeing, it's the.The head will kind of wobble and pick a side. It's kind of random, you know, it's not like walk the dog. It's. It'll show side profile. But when it does show side profile, the.The belly, the weight on that belly will kick in front of the head and kind of push upward and flash the belly towards the angler. Right.So what we were seeing is if we're putting it into these isolated holes on the bank with they're surrounded by structure, you can't drag a lure out of them. Can't, you know, put a fly in it and just twitch it in the hole.You've got to be able to run over a couple of logs that are running parallel to the water and then undercut rock. And it's all in one big kind of pool that's isolated up against the bank. Right. Just envision that.And so what we were seeing is on the flies that we were keel waiting the hook on these bigger hooks, the fish that would be chasing it, they would see the. They would start tracking. And if they didn't, you know, just suicide straight into it and just slam the thing like as a reaction bite.They'd be tracking it.And when they saw that belly flip, even though the color, the white of the belly is flipping towards me and the chase is in, the fish is chasing it from the bank towards me. It's still seeing that fish kind of go sideways and show profile.But the thing that we were also seeing is that the fish that were between me and the fly were seeing the flash and coming straight out from the boat towards the fly. And so that belly flip into the kind of T bone profile is showing a lot of triggers.And then you just, you know, let the thing sit and hover and it's not going to. Not going to dip. It's just going to stay there.And if you want to give it a couple of taps, it'll do the same thing every time you give it a tiny tap or a big tap. So you can set it in one little location and make it struggle in that hole.Even if there's a bunch of current in it, you can just kind of give tiny mends upstream. And every time you give it a mend, even if it's a tiny men, I mean, that thing's going to animate like crazy.Every time that there's slack in the line, it's just going to show that side profile.

Marvin Cash00:14:50

Interesting. So it's almost like it's like that Rapala roll, right?

Fletcher Sams00:14:54

Yeah, it's like the Rapala roll. And you know, like, I know that we're talking about the tweaker, but like that quack head that I tie, it's.It's got a, you know, kind of a solid mallard wing and it's got that same kind of action. And you know, it's.Once you see kind of the reactions from fish following it from where you cast it and tracking in from where you are to it because they're seeing the belly flash, it's just. It's a. It. It's a really good action. If you can incorporate the side profile as well as that, you know, kind of belly roll flip.

Marvin Cash00:15:33

Yeah. Very, very neat. And so, you know, if you kind of walk us through the bug, you know, if we take the tweaker and we kind of.We'll, I guess, work through it and then kind of the. The way you tie it. So if we go from the back to the front, can you kind of walk us through the pattern?And also I think it'd be really interesting to hear any patterns as you were kind of evolving. The tweaker that you're like, they just don't work and they didn't make the final cut.

Fletcher Sams00:15:55

Yeah. So we've got different sizes, but I'd say, you know, the size that we use the most kind of the standard is what we call the XL. And that's.You've got two 10 millimeter shanks in the back and then two 15 after that. And that's connecting to like a size 2 either XO 774 or a SA 200. And 74.The two AirX hooks that are like kind of gamma short shank hooks with like a deep stinger bend to them. And then it's got a shank as the head. If you start in the back, you know, it's. It's kind of a feather game changer based bug.And if you start in the back, like, if you've heard Schultz and Blaine or you know, any of those guys kind of talk about the different tails, they call it a knife tail. So it's just two rooster tails like, or four rooster tails sitting together like praying hands, like collapse together like a knife blade.And then you progressively move the taper up those four shanks. And when you get to the hook on the shank connection to the hook, you're attaching a tungsten drop bead onto the bottom of the shank connection.And that allows you to like move the center of gravity like way below where the actual shank of the hook is. Without using a ton of weight, you're able to stabilize that hook vertically. Right. So using less weight to get it keeled. Right.By using that kind of bead. And because I'm using the shank attachment on that hook, you know, I'm already having a shank there.So there's already a loop for me to put that bead on. And so I just put it on the loop and tie it there, move forward, put lead eyes and then a hair head on top of that.And the hair head is tied basically like you're cutting the head where the widest it'll get is as wide as the eyes that you're using. And we use medium lead eyes. So we're trying to keep it somewhat light and weight balanced. It is a little weight unbalanced.It is a little heavy, but it's not like collapsing the loop. Heavy, but it'll suspend. It does not have enough weight to kind of jig.And the important part, parts of the bug and what really makes it different is the hook and the head and the weighting system.And what that stinger bend short chain hook allows you to do if you keel it slightly with the weight, is that weight will move the hook point, which is already down and pointed down because of the stinger bend. Put that hook point while it's riding level through the water just at the top of the deer hair head, right?And so when it's passing through a bush or going bumping through rocks and logs and stuff like that, if you're going slow and not trying to, oh shit, I'm going To hit the structure and, you know, rip it out. Right. Like if you're going slow, it'll just slither through that stuff and you'll see big fish just come and slam it into dry structure.It's pretty nuts. But the way that the head is slightly. Not slightly. Is more buoyant than the body, Especially that weighted hook.It just kind of rides above the hook point until a fish bites it and then it finds a hook point and you're off to the races. So it's that that deer here is doing two functions. It's action like a keel guard and it's also. Or like a weed guard and it's also acting like a keel.Right. So, you know, the reason I'm making them so.And if you look at them, they're like a ton of hair above the shank and not pretty much anything below the eyes. And that's so that I can get that density of the deer here to where the thing will keel without putting a ton of weight into the bug.If that makes sense.

Marvin Cash00:20:37

Yeah, it does. And if I remember correctly too, you like to tie your tail.Since you're doing a knife tail, you actually prefer to not use a tail shank but to use a normal 10 millimeter because you like the support, right?

Fletcher Sams00:20:50

Yeah.So, you know, like, if you're trying to tie anything just on like a straight round shank, it's especially something that is also round, like the stem of a feather. It's just going to have the propensity to roll. Right.And so if you're using a loop and a loop shank, you're able to kind of climb your thread up the the loop and create like this flat wall for the feather to kind of rest against. And even if you don't tie it in perfect, it's not going to roll because it's got like both sides of that shank kind of holding it in place.So that I like that tail too.Because if you're going to get a fly that's going to show a lot of profile or that's the action that you're trying to get is that T bone kind of profile that I feel like that's one of the slipperiest tails that you can put on one of these swim bugs is like that knife bladed knife tail. Like, you know, Schultze puts on as swinging D. You know, it's like you don't want any resistance in that tail.You want that thing to just slip through the water.

Marvin Cash00:21:58

Got it. And I know you. We kind of walk through the Proportions for the XL version.But I know you, you tie it smaller for trout and other things are there, you know, other kind of, you know, proportions for kind of different flavors of the tweaker you can share with folks.

Fletcher Sams00:22:11

Yes. So like the, the size that we're using for, for red eye bass, it's just three 10 millimeter shanks and then a tail shank.We're putting a marabou tail on it then for the support on those bugs.And I should probably do a video on it, but for any of these little bugs, like feather changer based bugs, I find that like the amount of support that you're using, one, one going back like a feather changers built, you know, using brush for support, and then the feather for the veil and the feathers, more or less what gives it the swim and the body that you see. Right. The support in my mind is just there for support, right. So just there to hold that shape and give it that form.And I find that I can pretty much create the shape that I need with like maximum three wraps of material. And so I don't put a lot of support on the bugs, but on those little bugs, you know, for, for folks that are wanting to kind of cheap it out.Um, if you think about using 10 millimeter shanks, you don't have like a lot of space on those shanks, right?Like, especially people starting out, they're like, oh my God, like I'm gonna wrap a whole feather on, you know, what is that, like 3 or 4 millimeters worth of length that's flat, right from where the lube goes down to the actual flat part of the shank. Am I making sense there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where, where that transition is forward, it's like not 10 millimeters. The whole thing is 10 millimeters.So you got like a very small space. But if you use like a hat, like half inch brush or even a quarter inch brush, and you start your brush like progressively working up the shank.So on the, on the first shank, you do one wrap right there at that junction where it goes flat.And then the next shank up, you do one wrap like so on that closed loop on a shank, if you put a little super glue on it, you can climb your thread back up the loop, right? And so give yourself a little bit more room.You don't want to put a feather there, but if you start your taper further up the loop, you're effectively making your material longer. Right. So you're, you're making that section wider, but you're also giving it more density by putting two wraps there.So what I'll do is I'll start the brush progressively higher up on the loop as I go forward without changing the brush size. And I'll just put up to three wraps going up the shanks.And it's like a built in taper system where you can make a quarter brush, quarter inch brush up to a half inch brush at the top shank.And you can, you know, increase the density by putting extra wraps by starting at the top and then terminating right there where it gets the flat space on every shank. So that's kind of a different way of building taper on some of these smaller bugs that I haven't seen other people do.But that's how I build the taper on it. And then for those bugs, I would say like a size 6 NS172, which is a lighter wire gauge Airx hook.And then a 15 millimeter instead of a 20 millimeter head and small lead eyes. And that thing is crazy light. It's totally weight balanced. Doesn't have the belly flip, but does have that kind of knuckle ball.Like it's searching here and there. But you can tie those down. They're about like 3 inches long. Ish. And so you can get, you know, the XL is five inches.That's like three, three and a half depending on how long you make the tail.And then, you know, we've been doing striper versions too where we're instead of using those kind of Gameras hooks, we've moved to like we'll take a 28 millimeter big game shank and put that in the front. And that's because we want double quarters in loop shanks because that's super important for big fish.Because I know that people don't want to believe this, but you know, like you can straighten the eyelet on these shanks pretty easy if you're into a big fish, right? So you don't want to put weight on any shank that's got that open eyelet on it.So you know, we're moving a big game shanks in the front with closed loops and we're doing like 8 ought blue water hooks on them and we're just like floating them down. Crazy wave trains with tons of structure and they're just getting demolished. It's super cool. So, you know, the world's your oyster.But the idea of that weighted keeled stinger bend hook that's got a short shank and then a head with deer Here that's high as the, the actual barb of the hook. That's kind of the recipe. So you can kind of play around with different stuff.And then we've got kind of a commercial version that we, you know, it's like a guide fly version of it with like a rabbit tail that will be in the UNCLE catalog this year. So super stoked about other people getting to fish this thing.

Marvin Cash00:28:18

Very, very cool.And before we kind of move away from proportions, you know, people are going to want to know, like, you know, we said tungsten teardrop beads, but kind of, you know, bead size to, to pattern, to kind of help them not have to kind of tie flies that are improperly keeled. Right?

Fletcher Sams00:28:35

Yeah. So you don't want to put too much weight on them.If you are adding the weight on with that shank system, the shank wire is going to be kind of limiting on you going too light.In other words, like, if you're using like a, something smaller than like a 4 millimeter bead, it may or may not slip over the shank wire and actually fit. So we usually use like 4 millimeter, 4.6 millimeter beads.Ooma makes them, and I believe a couple other companies maybe make these kind of drop tungsten drop beads where the, you know, instead of the, the, the hole for the bead being in the center, the beads kind of shaped like a teardrop. And it's in the top of the teardrop.

Marvin Cash00:29:23

Yeah. It's interesting. I know the comp guys like fishing those teardrop beads too.

Fletcher Sams00:29:27

Yeah.You know, I mean, it's as far as, you know, getting something that's going to actually kill the hook the way that you want it to and not roll around in a bunch of current. It's pretty slick.

Marvin Cash00:29:42

Yeah. Pretty neat.And so, you know, we ought to kind of dive into a little bit more detail on the, the, the deer hair head and, you know, what do you look for? I know, I know everybody's different about what they want in their deer hair, but what are you looking for when you tie the tweaker?

Fletcher Sams00:29:55

So I, I prefer belly hair over body hair, just in general. I think that it's a more durable fiber on the belly hair, but it's also, you're going to generally find larger diameter fibers on the belly hair.That's not always 100% true, but like, if you can't get to the shop and feel it in the bag, like, that's a good chance you're going to get some better suited hair. If you're sticking with belly. But what I'm looking for in here is like, I want the largest diameter fiber as I can. That's long enough for the bug.And if you are looking at the collar of the bug, you're just wanting to match that last hint collar in size. And so, you know, you kind of have a gauge as far as how long you want it. It's not crazy long, but longer hair is better.But for me, it's 100% about the diameter of the hair.And that is because I like to really kind of be able to fine tune the density of the hair because there's a couple of, you know, games that you're playing with this platform. One is the shank length on the hook. So like, a longer shanked hook is going to be a higher percentage of hookups, right?And then the density of the deer here is another game that you're playing, right? Which is like going to affect a whole lot of stuff.But then also the height of the deer here and the length of the head are also games that you're playing. Because the, the, the gap between the hook point and the deer hair head is, is what you're. What you got to work with to hook the fish, right?So if it's.It's a super visual game, like you're going to see them eat this fish there, it's impossible for you to like, get the fly deep enough in the water that you're not going to see it. It's going to be brutal. That's why we fish it, because the eats are just absolutely insane.But with the density, you can get it tight enough where it's going to stay in the surface film, which isn't a bad thing.Um, or, or you can tie it a little bit looser and get it down maybe like 6, 7, 8 inches and like kind of into that kind of part of the water column, which isn't much difference. But sometimes it can make a difference.Like, we fish a lot of rock structure where the, the, the opening to the structure, the window that the fish can kind of see the fly. You do need to get it down, or you need to get it down below the log where the fish can see it on the underside of the log.And so if I've got a thicker fiber on the deer here, it's easier for me to like, when I pull the bundle, say, okay, it's like not big enough, small enough.And then also the other fibers, when you're shaving the head and doing the final shave down, it'll Give you more of a smooth surface, even if you're going, like, a lighter density where it's not anywhere close to packed.You can, you know, squish the head all the way down to the shank, but it's a super uniform cut, and that's usually, like, because of this, the diameter of deer hair will allow you to get that cleaner cut. So that's really the hair qualities that I'm looking for is, like, as thick as I can get it. And then length second is what I'm looking for.And then if you look at my fly, it's like, color's really important to me. I've gotten to the point now where, like, there's this dude named Colin Nash, and, like, he'll just dye up material the colors that I want, so.So I don't have to, you know, deal with the color thing anymore, but, like, color would be a third.

Marvin Cash00:34:12

Got it.And if we kind of talk about the xl, you know, to help people with proportions and, I don't know, I guess people lots of times like to talk about pencils. Can you kind of talk about the amount of deer hair for the collar and kind of the top and the bottom of the head?

Fletcher Sams00:34:25

Yeah. So, you know, I hate using the pencils because it's like a squishy material. Like, you know, that's why it pops. Right.So it's, you know, how tight are you holding the pencil? But to give you an analogy that I think is, like, more useful than the pencil thing, it's like, ratios. Right.So if you were to, say the pencil analogy, which is close to a pencil, in my mind, it's a pencil for the collar, a pencil for the top of the head stack, half a pencil for the belly stack, and then three quarters of a pencil for the front spin.

Marvin Cash00:35:06

Got it. And, you know, as we kind of talk about the head more, we touched on this a little bit earlier.But, you know, I think it's super interesting, kind of the interaction you have between the. The deer hair head and the eyes and the weight to kill the fly. Right. Just kind of from a design perspective.Can you talk about that a little bit more? And, like, you know, how. You know, how you matched, you know, figured out matching the bead to the eyes to the head.

Fletcher Sams00:35:29

Yeah. So we. We started out in the oomqua bugs like this.We were tying dumbbells to, like, extra small dumbbells to the rear hook, and that is about the same weight as these tungsten jigs. But what we found is that the tungsten, because it hangs so much lower. It just also kind of acts as, like, it's just.It stabilizes more, almost like a gyroscope. I mean, it's not the same principle, but it's. Because it hangs lower, you're able to kind of get more of that belly flip to it.So, you know, it still has that profile. It still has that belly flip if you're using the dumbbells.But by hanging the weight, like, super, super low, by attaching it to the bottom of the shank wire, it really exaggerates where it's like that. That belly flip, it's. It's basically like parallel to the water surface. I mean, it's. It's a big waddle.And so, you know, arriving at that size, it's basically, you know, a 4 millimeter bead is like the smallest thing that you can slip over that shank wire. And that's kind of. You know, you might be able to go lighter if you were to do it belly scratcher style and, like, tie it in with articulation wire.But to go off on a little rant, shank connections are the most durable. I, you know, don't catch saltwater fish. I don't do a lot of saltwater fishing, but I catch a lot of big freshwater fish and break a lot of flies.I break a lot of shank connections. But, you know, if you're gonna build, like, these bugs that take an hour to build, I don't want them to break.And so, you know, using that shank connection wire is kind of a must for me if you're gonna, you know, connect a changer type of tail to a body.Like, you need that connection to be solid and not be the weak point in the fly, especially if you're gonna put weight on it, which this doesn't put weight on it, but it's just kind of a forceful habit.

Marvin Cash00:37:54

Interesting. So it's really fascinating.So really what you're doing with that teardrop bead is you're putting more mass kind of in the center line of the hook, right?

Fletcher Sams00:38:01

Like, way below. So, you know, it's. It's like if you're.If you've seen somebody use, like, a shank connection to add a game changer body to a front hook, and they kind of tie in.Like, in Blaine's book, there's a really good illustration where he's, like, kind of opens up the loop of the shank, ties down the wire over the bend of the hook, and then slides the body on the open part of the Shank, and then closes the shank and ties it all in right before, you know, you put your body on it, and then you put your bead on it, tie it closed at the flat part, and then bring your thread back over the bead, tie the bead down, and then your beads just kind of hanging on that shank wire. And because it's a hookup design, you know, that bead's hanging probably like, the bead probably starts 3 millimeters below the hook shank.And so the. The weight of the thing is probably like 6 millimeters below the hook shank.So it just like, Not a whole lot of weight, and it just really, like, stabilizes that. That hook on the pause. Right. So it'll. It'll maintain. It has its own moment.It's heavy enough to have its own momentum to kind of kick that belly out in front of the head when you pop it. And, you know, it'll get that belly roll flash up, and then when it's stable, it'll stabilize straight back into that T bone.And so I think having the bead lower exaggerates the amount of belly flip, like, how much it flips vertical.

Marvin Cash00:39:44

Yeah, I guess also, too, like, I'm just thinking, like, as opposed to having the weight on the eyes being kind of out on the outside, away from the shank, Right? It's in close, right?

Fletcher Sams00:39:52

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marvin Cash00:39:54

And so that. That helps the tip over as well, right?

Fletcher Sams00:39:56

Yes, yes, it does. Yeah. Now. Now I understand what you're saying. Yes. Because you don't have the mass on the other side of the shank, like, kind of fighting it.It's like everything's, like, right there in line with it.

Marvin Cash00:40:06

Yeah, it's like. It's like tipping something over, right?

Fletcher Sams00:40:08

Yes, correct. It's, like, unbalanced until it immediately kind of corrects itself.

Marvin Cash00:40:14

Yeah. Super neat. And it's funny, too, because preparing for the interview, I watched your. Your scoff video from the Fish Hog and.

Fletcher Sams00:40:22

Oh, yeah, the. All hour and a half of it, dude.

Marvin Cash00:40:25

I watched the.I watched the whole thing, and I'll drop a link to it in the show notes, but one of the things that really struck me, we were talking about this before we started recording is, you know, you've got.I mean, there's just a ton of insanely useful tying tricks that kind of show that you kind of see the world in a different way and, you know, in terms of, like, you know, how you blend in, Palmer the Hackle, you know, how you are able to kind of build kind of Thread dams over sharp spots on shanks. You know, how you like to deal with the, the tag of like, brushes and also to your. Your dislike of UV resin.But I think the, the curious thing about it was, you know, it's a very different way of seeing the world and making these things better. And I was kind of curious about kind of your process for kind of like refining and finding these tricks and lifesavers at the vise.

Fletcher Sams00:41:15

Yeah, you know, it's. You know, when I started kind of getting into predator tying, it was like YouTube videos and stuff like that.Like, fish hawk is pretty good way away from me. Even though it is like the closest shop to me, it was hard to get up there and like really kind of dig into some of these designs.And, you know, back then there was hardly anything on this, I think, you know, like, Schultze eventually did some videos on some feather changer stuff, and, you know, that was eye opening. And then you started, you know, tinkering with this stuff based on the knowledge that was out there.You know, it seemed kind of like everyone had a little bit of a different approach to the same kind of bug. And so I started talking with a lot of local anglers, local tires, and, you know, have a close group of friends. You've met them before.They come up to bobbin with me. Travis Smith, Adam Smith, Seth Clark. And we all tie and we all kind of get into the problem solving aspect of fishing.And we all are just nuts about this shoal bass that's native to Georgia. And so a lot of the tires around here also fish for that. And, you know, it's.It's kind of a set of water that doesn't really kind of compute with folks like from the Midwest or really from anywhere is like kind of the fall line habitat that we have.And Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina, where, you know, our rivers can get, you know, go from like 60 yards wide to like 600 yards wide into just endless pocket water that drops in couple hundred feet and elevation over, you know, 20 miles. And so it's, it's kind of this just real gnarly, warm water crazy stuff.And a lot of these flies that were being built and used and all these other fisheries, like, just couldn't deliver the fly into some of the holding areas that these fish are in. And so we just started tinkering with stuff. And in the tinkering with stuff, like, we just started really getting into all kinds of different flies.Not just, you know, these swim flies, real complicated swim flies, but other things. And there's just a lot of different techniques that I think and, and you know, philosophies that you can bring into the swim fly kind of world.And that's, you know, I'm taking little bits and pieces here and there and like, I'm always picking up something new.But a lot of it's just trial and error because we're kind of isolated down here in Middle Georgia without a fly shop or any kind of, you know, fly tying mentors outside of Atlanta, you know, so it's hard for us to get up there sometimes. And so a lot of times it's just kind of figuring it out amongst ourselves and doing that.I started seeing a lot more videos of like other people doing it and I'm like, oh, well, I don't do it that way.And so when, you know, Southern culture on the fly asked me to do the video, I was like, well, I'll just kind of talk through the way I do it because I do it a little different and you know, thinking that I'd have like a 15 minute video.But then Lee Gardner, who used to work with the Fishhawk, now is kind of like on his own doing promotion stuff, but he filmed it and he was like, I don't want to take any of this stuff out. So it's an hour and a half. Sorry. Gave it to Hank.And so, you know, that's, that's kind of how all those tips and tricks got into there is because he hadn't seen it, any of that stuff either.And so, you know, it's like I didn't know how different it was until, you know, I, I kind of started seeing how everybody else was doing it because everybody else kind of started posting videos on how they were building these things.

Marvin Cash00:45:32

Yeah.And it seemed too that a lot of it was driven by the fact that I guess you, you, you, as you explained in that video, Shol best have really sharp teeth. And so there was a really big focus on durability.

Fletcher Sams00:45:42

Yeah, super big focus on durability, you know, and then like outside of like the sh. You know, tearing up flies, like we do a lot of fishing for bowfin striper and they're tearing up gar.And they, they all tear up flies in different ways. Right. And so, you know, you asked about the resin thing. I think the first time that I really was like, I don't know about this whole resin shit.Is mustache at Fishhawk. I don't know if you know or have met the mustache, but you need to.He's, he's kind of like, local legend in the Southeast, really, but has no social media presence or anything like that.But he was going to Bolivia and doing some golden rado stuff and asked me to tie up some bugs and tied him up some feather changers and, you know, knew that they were gonna have, like, some pretty gnarly bite strength and gonna tear up flies. And I just wanted to see how durable a fly I could make and a feather changer and, you know, did a couple of things different.Like, every feather that I wrapped on, I wrapped switch threads, wrapped GSP all the way back over the stems where it's like, you know, you. You basically, like, palmer the. The hen forward, and then you wrap back over them where you, like, kind of cut them in half in size.And then I would shellac that with resin, put brush in front of that, and then, you know, kind of reverse order of what Blaine's doing where the feathers are kind of stacked in between brushes. It looks almost the same, but no exposed feather stems, no anything. And, like, just coated in resin, the whole thing.And you had, like, two fish were just popping through the resin core, and, like, there's not a speck of resin on it. It all chipped off and flaked off.And, you know, I was like, I don't know about all this, and then started having other resin problems with, like, adhesion, like everyone does with, like, putting eyes on it and stuff.But after, I don't know, this is probably five years ago, six years ago, I started having crazy allergic reactions where, like, I'd break out in hives, my face would swell, like, I couldn't see out of my eyes kind of thing when I would tie flies.And I thought that it was, like, some sensitivity to dye or material and thought that I was going to have to give it up until someone had mentioned to me that it might be the UV resin cooking off and started looking into that more. And it's absolutely that, like, I'm crazy allergic to it. When I got back from bobbing this year, I had a barely see out of my face.Didn't get me the year before, but it definitely got me this year. But even if you ask those dudes, like, they'll tell you, like, yeah, there's two ingredients that everyone's sensitive to.And if you don't have ventilation, like, at a tying show with a bunch, like a hundred tires in a closed space with no ventilation, like, everyone's allergic to it, you know, and you're just going to get some sort of reaction. It might be mild, but it Might not be mild. And so I just, you know, it didn't seem like the most durable thing to me in the world.And, uh, also allergic is all get out to it. And I wasn't for years, but I came very allergic to it.And once I figured it out, it's like, all right, well, now I've got to get good with adhesives that don't have a lot of work time. And so, you know, Flexament is my new best friend for Anything thread. And E6000 is, like, the best adhesive ever known to man. It's bulletproof.And so I use that in place of most of my thicker resin work.

Marvin Cash00:50:07

Got it.And before we kind of move on to discuss fishing the fly, I was kind of curious, you know, what are three mistakes that you see that tires commonly make when they tie the tweaker?

Fletcher Sams00:50:20

Well, if they actually tie the twigger, like, if I give them the recipe. Right. Like, a lot of people will put a deer hair head on a game changer and be like, it's a tweaker.And I'm like, no, it's a, you know, game changer deer here head. But the of the folks that are actually trying to tie it, I would say the. The number. All the problems that I usually see are around the head. Right.And going back to what you're trying to do. Like, you don't want a wide head the widest. You want to use the eyes as the gauge for how wide.You want that head no wider than the lead eyes, and you want a taller top of the head. Like a real tall top of the head. You want it to be level with the hook point. If you stretch out the bug, that hook point is the top of the hair.And the biggest mistake that I see is that. And on that hour and a half video, I talk about it. It's like you've got to shorten the length of the head.You do not want the head to go back towards the hook more than, like a couple millimeters behind the lead eyes.And I cut a hard line in the head at that point, because I don't want anything impeding the hookup more than it's already impeded with the head, if that makes sense. Right. Like it's a weedless fly. So you're gonna have a decrease in hookup percentage, but you're fishing it in places you can't fish other flies.

Marvin Cash00:51:54

Got it. And so are there any tools, Fletcher, that you suggest to make someone's life easier when they tie the tweaker?

Fletcher Sams00:52:01

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.If you don't have a hatch half hitch tool for finishing off the head like you're gonna be sucking, even if it's just like a big pin that you, you know, take the guts out of, like, have something that you can do that half hitch tool move at the end. And then I don't know how many of them have tied a lot, but I hook myself kind of constantly when I tie these things.And so I take one of my kids, like, little toy erasers, and I break off a little piece of it and put it over the Barbie when I'm tying it so that I don't hook myself. And that's also a very, very helpful hint because you will hook yourself if you're messing with a deer here.It's just like, you got to put your hands in certain places when you're laying the hair down. And when you're laying that collar down, the odds of you getting stuck are very high.

Marvin Cash00:52:59

Yeah. And you actually did that in the video.

Fletcher Sams00:53:01

Yes, I did. Right after I said, watch out. Don't do this.

Marvin Cash00:53:05

Yeah, don't be a dumbass. And boom. Then it happened, right?

Fletcher Sams00:53:08

Yep, then it happened.

Marvin Cash00:53:10

So.So, you know, if we talk about, like, you know, fishing the tweaker, it's really, you know, as we talked about, it's not a jig style, it's a swim style fly. And I was kind of curious, you know, if you have kind of a bias in your personal fishing.Do you generally like, swim style over jig, or do you just kind of pick based on the situation?

Fletcher Sams00:53:29

No doubt, jigging is a super effective way of fishing. So is using a bobber. It's not my go to. I. The thing that I really get out of fishing is, like, watching it happen and swim.Flies, in my opinion, are, like, gonna be in the part of the water column that kind of lends itself to watching the whole thing play out. And so if I can get away with a swim fly, that's what I want to fish 100 of the time.Because that's really what I'm there to do is to watch, you know, watch the lion kill the gazelle. Like, that's. That's the kick out of it, Right.And so, you know, it's cool to catch a big fish, but it's a whole lot cooler to see the big fish, like, chase down the thing that you just tied together with, like, fur and some nylon, right?

Marvin Cash00:54:30

Yeah, for sure. It's kind of like smallmouth fishing and like watching like, a white game changer just disappear.

Fletcher Sams00:54:36

Yeah. You know, I mean, it's like, sure. You know, it's like if. If you're not into it for the visual thing, man, like, hang something on a bobber.Bet you'll catch more fish.

Marvin Cash00:54:47

Yeah. And so, you know. So where do you generally like to kind of fish? The tweaker in the water column.

Fletcher Sams00:54:55

So, like I was talking about earlier, like, it's. It's a structure bug.And when I say structure bug, like, people are like, oh, yeah, you know, like, it's like you can, like, throw it in, like, over a log and, like, drag it over the log and it'll be okay.But it's like, like we are throwing this thing and like, the nastiest little thing that we think can hold a big fish that's just kind of chilling out. And so, you know, we. We use this to, like, climb up and over structure that's out of the water. Right.So we're throwing it onto the bank, dragging it into the water, that kind of thing.And so I think that, like, as far as the water column goes, and like, I was talking about playing with the hair density where you can get them to sink a little bit. Like, we don't need these things to sink more than 6 to 8 inches at the most. So it's. It's right up there at the top of the water column.

Marvin Cash00:55:56

Got it. And so I guess that probably means you're probably generally fishing it on a floater, you know, what's the rest of your tackle setup?

Fletcher Sams00:56:03

Yeah. So, you know, a hundred percent on a floater, you can put it. You know, of course, there's no rules.You can put it on whatever you want to, but, like, if you're going to fish it the way that we fish it, like in that kind of structure, you're gonna tear up your fly line. If you're using a sink and fly line with a short leader and putting it in there. Right. Like, so what we tend to do is like, a very thick.Like, we'll typically use, like, eight weights when we're fishing. You know, sometimes we'll go lighter, but ideally an 8 weight and use a floating line.And probably, like, the shortest leader that we'll use is nine feet. You know, most of these holes are going to be kind of that, like 15ft wide at the most kind of size.Like, they're not big holes that we're trying to find that are, like, just cluttered up with logs and rocks and current and all this stuff.Like, they're not big places, and so they are big enough where we don't want the fly line dragging across the stuff that we want the fly to drag across. So we'll typically use like a 12 foot leader. Right.And the lightest tippet that we'll use is £20 and it's all fluoro and one that helps it kind of get into the, you know, below the film. But it's, it's also just for abrasion resistance. And like you're going to have to retie.But like we're using 50 pound butts and tapering down to 20, which is like overkill for an eight weight. But we just want that abrasion resistance on all that structure that we're going to drag over.

Marvin Cash00:57:47

Yeah, got it. And so if we kind of back up a little bit, you know, in terms of the rod, are you looking for something that's pretty stiff?So like, you know, like I know Schultze and those guys, like those Loomis rods, or do you want a little bit more? Given the tip, you know. What's your favorite kind of kind of rod action?

Fletcher Sams00:58:03

No, that's my favorite kind of action. Like that Schultze rod. Man, I love that thing. Sorry, that, that, that rod's amazing. But it's all because of that super stiff tip.And you know, you can impart a ton of action on swim flies with that kind of action. You can do it all day with that grip too. I mean, that, that rod just ticks all the boxes.Now, if Loomis would get their act right and make a 10 weight, I would not buy any of the rot. But that's neither here nor there. I don't think that's in the cards. But you want a stiffer tip.This rod, I mean, this fly, you don't need a whole lot of pop and rod movements to give it action. Like you can do jerk strip pops. It will give a heavy belly roll, but so will like a tiny little strip.As long as you're giving it a little bit of slack where it can go and show profile, it'll do that belly roll on like a 2 inch strip, as long as you pop it and slide. So, you know, it's like we'll, we'll do a lot of different presentations in there.One of our favorite presentations is will try to throw onto the bank or onto a dry rock and like have the fly land there. That gives the line the chance to like hit, not spook the fish.And then we'll start just literally like kind of twitching the rod tip, just kind of shaking it back and forth and That'll kind of drag.Drag the fly into the water and just kind of like shimmy it every once in a while and then give it a couple of pops and, like, they just can't handle it. So there's a lot of different action that you can put into this thing, but that fly will move a whole lot with minimal effort.And so it's less about, like, exactly what kind of action you're putting into it. The big thing is, like, you want to make sure that when that fly is eaten, you want to see.It's not when it goes in the fish's mouth, it's when that fish's mouth closes that. That you want to actually set the hook.And what I find is, if you're doing, like, big, big crazy stuff, like crazy rod tip movements down, and you create that big shock, like, slack wave in those kind of smaller pockets, you just have so much slack in there that, like, it's hard to get that hook set right.And so for me, it's like, yes, it will put the action into the fly, but in the spaces that we're doing this, like, the fly is going to have the same action with smaller movements. And so I want to keep that fly in that hole for as long as I can. Looking dead and dying.

Marvin Cash01:01:10

Yeah.

Fletcher Sams01:01:11

And so, you know, for me, it's like smaller movements, not big jerk strips.

Marvin Cash01:01:17

Yeah. And so are you, you know, when you do those small strips, I would imagine you're in line.Are you actually, you know, pushing the tip back to the fly to create a little bit more slack?

Fletcher Sams01:01:28

No, it's. It's.It's kind of like splitting your hands, you know, meeting your hands in the middle in front of you with the rod pointed, like, kind of at the fly and just kind of splitting your hands apart and then bringing them back together, if that makes sense.

Marvin Cash01:01:45

Yeah, got it. And also, too, we didn't talk about the line, so you've got a floater, but, you know, what kind of taper do you like on that?

Fletcher Sams01:01:52

I. You know, a long time ago, when.When scientific anglers came out with those Titan lines, it's like, that's just what I fish, just because it's consistent and they have all the different line types with the exact same weight heads. And that's what I fish across all my flies on all my reels is like, that specific line.

Marvin Cash01:02:13

Yeah. Particularly if you're roll casting, right?

Fletcher Sams01:02:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marvin Cash01:02:18

And so, you know, you know, as we kind of start to wrap up this evening, are there folks, you know, tying variations or evolutions of the tweaker that you find particularly interesting.

Fletcher Sams01:02:29

Yeah, like, Fred Schroeder is probably the dude that's tied the most to these things, and he's tying a version that he's calling the trout tweaker.It's not weedless, but he put a tail hook into it and he's, he's been catching a ton of trout, but, you know, he fishes the XL version a bunch for like, lake trout and big browns. And like, he does really well on the trout.I don't do a lot of trout fishing, but, you know, apparently he's done incredibly well with the standard versions and that, you know, kind of tail hook version. I don't know if it's. I mean, it's inspired, but it, it's not a weedless fly, so it's just kind of a totally different thing.But it's, it's still a cool bug. Seems to be catching a lot of.

Marvin Cash01:03:21

Fish, you know, and very neat. And also too. Tell us a little bit more. So, you know, you know, Umpqua picked up your flies, which is super cool.

Fletcher Sams01:03:27

Right? Yeah, thanks.

Marvin Cash01:03:29

And so, you know, tell us a little bit about kind of, you know, when folks are going to see him in the market and variations and all that kind of good stuff.

Fletcher Sams01:03:37

So it's, you know, I, I talked to the dudes, Matt Winkler at Wink yesterday, and they're going to be in this year's catalog. So I guess like a month ish from now, they should be coming out.I know Schultze should have a bunch of them on hand right now, like a few dozen in three different colors. The Oomqua bugs are smaller. They're. They're kind of closer in size to the original bug. So they're like three and a half inches.I want to say they, instead of a game changer body, they've got a rabbit strip as a tail. But everything, you know, from the hook forward is kind of identical to the. The other bugs.And instead of the tungsten bead where we're using, you know, the, the lead eyes in the rear, but that bug, we also went with a slightly, slightly longer hook shank. The. The Unqua. It's called a XS425.And so, you know, for a commercial fly, we wanted something that was gonna be on the more forgiving end of the hookup ratio versus weedless aspect of it. So still very weedless. However, it's gonna have a slightly better hookup ratio than like the shorter shank hooks. Have.

Marvin Cash01:05:17

Got it. Anything else you want to share with our listeners before we go tonight.

Fletcher Sams01:05:21

No, I think that's it. You know, if you, if you want to, you know, get into tying this and you have any questions, you know, hit me up.If you don't want to tie them and you want like some of the full dress bugs that I did, like in the. The video that you're talking about, like, Fred Schroeder will take your order and tie those up for you so I don't have to.And they are like, basically same recipe. He's tying the heads the right way and everything like that. So, you know, he's tying them like I would die them.And, you know, please hit him up instead of me if you want to just buy bugs.

Marvin Cash01:05:59

Yeah, there you go. And so what's the best way for folks to get in touch and kind of follow your adventures at the vice.

Fletcher Sams01:06:04

And on the water Instagram? Though I have not been posting much as of late, I've. I've kind of got the.Maybe the spot burning thing is not the best thing in the world kind of syndrome right now.

Marvin Cash01:06:19

Well, there you go. Well, I appreciate you spending some time with me and, you know, it's always cool. I think you're. You'll be the.Probably the fourth guest on the butcher shop, so I appreciate you making the time.

Fletcher Sams01:06:30

That's wild, man. You're gonna just trigger my imposter syndrome. So much worse.

Marvin Cash01:06:35

I. I think you're. I think you're being too hard on yourself. I.I feel like I'm an imposter too, but, you know, it's kind of liberating for me because I'm like, you know, guys, I didn't figure any of this stuff out. I'm just trying to organize the information for everybody so, you know, no risk of me copying anybody.

Fletcher Sams01:06:51

Yeah, well, I can't thank you enough for having me on, dude.

Marvin Cash01:06:54

Well, I appreciate it. Well, listen, hopefully we'll get to spend some time on the water soon.

Fletcher Sams01:06:58

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you're down here, just let me know.

Marvin Cash01:07:01

Absolutely. Take care. Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.Don't forget to check out the links to all this episode's sponsors in the show notes. Fish hard, folks.