S8, Ep 32: Spring Fishing Unlocked: Mac Brown's Tips for Targeting Elementary and Graduate School Fish

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly, back with another Casting Angles with the man himself, Mac Brown. Mac, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin?

As always, just trying to stay out of trouble. And you know, folks, we talk before we record and sometimes we talk a long time, sometimes we talk a really long time.And you know, one of the things we thought would be interesting tonight, we've been kind of, I wouldn't say negative. I think we've just been honest that the fishing season, regardless of what you've been chasing this spring, has been pretty tough.But, you know, we've got got some good news here in the mid Atlantic and in the southern Appalachian. Do you want to kind of update folks? Mac?

Sure. The biggest, biggest change, really the last. Since the last podcast, we've had quite a bit of cool weather the last two weeks.We're supposed to get down in the upper 30s tonight again after the little front that moved through this weekend. And on top of that, we've getting a little bit of rainfall. So between cooler temperatures and rainfall, that's a win. Win.So the tuck still hanging in there about 500 cfs, I think right now.So to give folks an example though, of what that means is cubic feet a second in normal flows this time of year, usually about 16 to 1800 cubic feet a second. And we're fishing on 4 to 500 instead of, you know, 16, 1700. So it's quite a bit of difference if you're in a boat throwing people down, you know.

Yeah, it definitely means you might want to crack the raft out a little early, right?

Yeah, yeah. The rafts are where it's at. I mean, you see a lot of drift boats here in Bryson, but I think it's just because they don't have an option for a raft.But we've got a bunch of NRS otters and a bunch of Clacka crafts, and it depends on what the water's doing for which one we take.

Yeah, and so the interesting thing is that, you know, you've also gotten a fresh round of stocking in the DH program, and so those fish get to kind of hang out until the first Saturday in June. But, you know, the other thing that's going on is you've got the holdover resident fish and then you've got fish that are running out of the lakes.And so you really kind of have, you know, elementary school fish and graduate school fish on the tuck at the same time.

Yeah, that's a good Way to describe it, kind of like elementary school, maybe middle school, like. And then you got the PhD fish too, that have been in there long time.The fish that come up out of the lake tend to be really, really in tune with what the river's given up. And they. They know the game pretty well. Like to see somebody in there throwing a big, you know, bobber at 400 cfs, it plops into the water.That's probably not a great idea this time of year. And then you got people that are. I saw this the other day on a trip. You mean four boats that were in front, two and back.They're all throwing big streamers on these fish that are eating size 20 fours. That's your PhD fish. Of course, they never caught one because they're.They're focused in on really small midges and emerges of blue wings that were coming off. So there's a time and a place to do all these techniques.But, yeah, when you got a mixture of fish of what we're experiencing right now, you really gotta make the right call to be successful.

Yeah. And so I guess to deal with low water, you know, we would probably say no indicators. Dry dropper. Right.And if you could get away with fishing without an indicator, even better.But, you know, what are your suggestions in terms of, you know, you gotta kind of have a system for figuring out whether you're fishing to an elementary school fish or a graduate school fish. And how does that kind of, you know, dictate your approach and fly selection and all that kind of good stuff?

Well, down here in Bryson, I guess the easy thing is there's only about five different spots where the truck can actually stop. Because it's a gravel road, it's narrow. So just look for.If you see a spot, you could pull a big old, you know, truck the size of a cement truck over, then chances are that's one of the spots they probably put them in and they stay potted up for a week or two. And so they're still potted up. The new ones they put in, they're still fairly potted up together and haven't spread out.So if you're in a spot that's on the river that's, you know, far in between that, then chances are those are the holdovers we're talking about. So that's probably the easiest way to think about where. Where would they have.You know, I think a lot of people think because they put fish in somewhere that they put them all up and down. That's not the way it Works they. They have four or five spots they use and takes them several weeks to spread out.And once they spread out, then who knows what they are. But you can kind of tell by just hitting, you know, likely water. If you throw in some, you know, what we call junk food in the guide business.If you're throwing junk food and you're doing real well in a riffle, chances are those are the new fish, you know, so that's kind of the way we judge it when we're floating down.

Yeah. And so would you.I mean, you know, the dry fly game is maybe a little bit easier to diagnose because you'll either see stuff on the surface of the water, you won't.You'll know that graduate school, elementary school break off pretty quickly because if you don't see anything, those are probably fish running up out of the lake or the resident fish that are pretty dialed in on the small stuff. But, you know, any tips for folks in the sense of, you know, fish like a. A junk.Junk food fly and then maybe have like a really, really small nymph, you know, off of that to maybe see if you can kind of float through and kind of dial things in and fish to kind of both at the same time.

Yeah, no, that's a good idea. I mean, to use something that's a little bit bigger, like say a Walt's Worm or something natural, you know, for.For nymphing in the morning when it's early. Like, I'll use a lot of those in the morning and like a Walt's Worm with natural colors.Cause it's been bright, you know, after the rainfall we had over the weekend. It's with this cold front in place now. It's, you know, fairly bright conditions.And then off of that, then we'll put some really small pattern either on the point or sometimes depends what we're doing. But a lot of times I'll run it up on the dropper too, the smaller fly. So it kind of depends if I think they're emerging.I'll run it with the small fly up in the middle of the column. And if I think the. If it's really early and you think they're still holding deeper, then I'll put the small fly on the point. So we, we helped. We.We changed that quite a bit through the day.

Yeah. And I would say too, folks, you know, don't be intimidated on the dry fly sides when we talk about fishing, like, you know, 18s and smallers.I mean, the trick on that is, you know, sacrifice a larger fly you know, like a large Parachute Adams or stimulator or something like that.And then put the small fly that they're really eating, you know, off the back of that fly and you know, basically you can see the Adams, you can see the Elk Hair Caddis, you can see the Stimulator. And if you see anything rise, you know, roughly with that around where you think that that dropper dry fly is just lift. Right.Cause hook sets are free.

That's right. Yeah. That's, that's a great way to do it. And you don't have to be like comp legal at 20 inches and all that.So what works really well with a smaller parachute or CDC flies just put it about 12 inches away. 12, 14 Inches is all it needs to be because they're not going to eat the big fly if it's, if it's the educated fish that are feeding on small stuff.Because we had that happen several times last week. We watched it drift through there.Oh, and the run, we were fishing, we stayed in the same run for a couple hours and I mean we got hundreds of drifts through that run and not one fish ate the fly. That was big. We call that the sacrificial fly. So they can find the small one, but we caught a lot of fish on the small one that tied off the end.So that's a good way because a lot of people just, it gives them confidence if they can see roughly where to look. You know, with time I think people get used to not seeing it. But I mean, because you, you kind of know where your fly went if you've done it a lot.But I think people that don't do it a lot, they need to have, it's kind of like saying training wheels for dry fly. You follow me? And I think it's a great, a great tip.But a lot of dry fly purists and stuff up here, I mean a lot of em will just throw three small flies too. I mean it doesn't have to be, it's not like one or the other. It just depends where somebody is.

Yeah, and I would say too, you know, if you don't want to go the sacrificial larger fly route, you can always mark your fly line or your leader either with like the little foam, you know, stick ons or use some of the like nymphing wax that the comp guys use. And you just kind of watch the relative position of those markings on the fly line or the leader.And if you see them straighten out, that tells you you got a Fish you need to lift.

That's right. That's my favorite way to.To this time of year is just using a long, longer setup at this low water and just watching the, you know, even watching the nail knot, you know, turn it over, like for your drifts, and they just sit there and watch the end. Keep the rod low, you know, to the water where you're tracking it and tracking it and following it down.And then just watching the end, if we're fishing emerges like say, under the. Under the film or, you know, I mean, I think people get hung up on feeling like, hey, I gotta see it.But think about all the folks that, you know, nymph fish and spend a lifetime learning how to perfect fishing subsurface. It's not any different fishing something two inches under the surface either.The same kind of setup, you know, So I think that can be beneficial for folks too, is learning to move away from indicators.Because I'm convinced even with fish that are new, it doesn't take fish long to adjust to the fact that if there's something big out there, something abnormal, like even a little pinch on salsa indicator that's orange, you know, I think you get away with it the first week or two, then three weeks in when they get really beat up. I mean, that stuff actually is, I think, hurting the overall results, you know.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, gosh, when you see those fish and they've been in for two weeks, I mean, you know, they. They are pretty torn up.But, you know, hopefully folks, one, we get to be a little bit positive, you know, so we're recording this here, I don't know, 10, 11 days into May. So you've got probably, you know, a good three weeks left to kind of chase these DH fish.And, you know, it looks like our weather is not going to super heat up anytime soon. And maybe there's some rain in the forecast, so, you know, get out there and catch a few.And I know, Mac, you've been taking care of stuff around the house, but. And you don't have any classes, I don'. Think until the fall. But you want to kind of let folks know, you know, guide schools, all that sort of stuff.You know, how to get in touch for guide trips and casting classes and stuff like that.

Sure, sure, that'd be good. The we have some.We have some casting schools coming up, saltwater school, and then we have a. Oh, there's some nymphing weekend schools and some wet fly schools, and there's a dry fly school middle of June, and those will all be be shown up on the macbrownflyfish.com website. That's the easiest way. Or reach out with or call or, you know, social media. I mean, they can do that.But I really don't look at that that much, so probably best to email me.

Well, fair enough. Well, listen, folks, you know, we've got. If you're in the DH game, you got two or three weeks to get after it. So you get out.Need to get out there and catch a few tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac.

Tight lines, Marvin.