S8, Ep 40: Chasing Fish and Seasons: Josh Trammell's Guiding Adventures
Episode Overview
In this episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash sits down with Josh Trammell, Head Guide at Mad River Outfitters in Columbus, Ohio, for a candid look at what it takes to build and sustain a full-time, four-season guide career. Josh covers the Ohio multi-species fishing calendar — smallmouth bass, northern pike, steelhead and carp — along with seasonal guiding in Alaska and destination schools targeting musky and trophy trout.
Josh traces his path from catching his first steelhead at age 11 on Elk Creek with Tim Hess — a swung fly — through early years shadowing the Steelhead Alley Outfitters crew of Greg Senyo, Nate Miller and Patrick Robinson, to becoming Head Guide at Mad River Outfitters and a seasonal guide at Naknek River Camp near King Salmon, Alaska. His guide year spans Ohio smallmouth through multiple simultaneous seasonal windows on Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers, northern pike during their late-winter pre-spawn, steelhead from November through freeze-up and summer Pacific salmon guiding in Alaska. Josh also discusses the January musky school he co-runs with Blane Chocklett and Virginia Trophy Guides in Roanoke, Virginia, spring trout trips to the White River in Arkansas and his growing enthusiasm for carp on the fly. Throughout, he shares practical, unvarnished advice for aspiring full-time guides on the financial realities, logistics and genuine passion required to make it work year-round.
Key Takeaways
- How a young angler can break into guide work at reduced financial risk by starting early, staying local and leveraging mentor relationships before major life expenses accumulate.
- Why the four-season model — cycling through Ohio smallmouth, pike, steelhead, Alaska salmon and destination schools — insulates full-time guides from unpredictable weather far better than single-species operations.
- When Ohio smallmouth become the most technically versatile species to guide, spanning crayfish dead-drifts, big early-season streamers, scaled-down baitfish imitations and topwater presentations across multiple seasonal phases.
- Why calibrating each guide day to the individual client's skill level and genuine expectations — rather than chasing personal hero shots — is the real key to repeat business and a sustainable career.
- How carp on the fly delivers a saltwater-style sight-fishing experience on Ohio freshwater, with few presentations per day and a high premium on reading fish behavior before ever picking up the rod.
- Why partnering with a full-service fly shop like Mad River Outfitters gives clients a reliable gear and knowledge resource and meaningfully reduces administrative pressure on the guide.
Techniques & Gear Covered
Josh guides across a wide technique spectrum that shifts with species and season. Ohio smallmouth receive dead-drifted crayfish patterns in low, clear conditions; big early-season streamers in high or stained water; scaled-down slim-profile baitfish imitations as flows drop through summer; and topwater presentations during the warmest stretches of the year. Steelhead on Steelhead Alley are targeted on both swung flies and indicator rigs, while northern pike receive focused attention during their January and February pre-spawn window — when Ohio weather cooperates. Carp fishing is an increasingly important part of Josh's warm-weather program, using a methodical visual approach borrowed directly from saltwater fly fishing: reading feeding behavior, waiting for clean shot opportunities and presenting deliberately to individual fish, often making no more than 10 to 15 casts in a full day. The annual musky school he leads with Blane Chocklett in Roanoke, Virginia, pairs a one-day tactical masterclass in predator fly techniques with four days of fishing on the water through Virginia Trophy Guides.
Locations & Species
Josh's Ohio guiding program covers Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers in northeastern Ohio, targeting steelhead through the November to freeze-up window and northern pike during the late-winter pre-spawn period. Ohio's multi-phase smallmouth calendar — with pre-spawn, spawning and post-spawn fish available simultaneously across different tributaries in mid-spring — gives Josh an unusually diverse season that stretches from spring through early fall. Carp are pursued on Ohio's clearer flatwater fisheries using visual sight-fishing methods, providing a reliable warm-weather alternative when smallmouth and pike waters run high and off-color. For destination work, Josh guides Pacific salmon at Naknek River Camp on the drainage near King Salmon, Alaska through summer; pursues musky with Virginia Trophy Guides on rivers outside Roanoke each January; and leads spring trout trips targeting caddis and sulphur hatches on the White River near Flippin and Cotter, Arkansas.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How do you break into a full-time fly fishing guide career?
Josh emphasizes starting young when bills and financial obligations are minimal — shadowing established guides on both working trips and fun-fishing days, learning how programs are structured and how to rig for different conditions. Building genuine relationships within a regional guide community, as Josh did with the Steelhead Alley Outfitters crew, opens the doors to early opportunities. He cautions that anyone entering the guide game with significant financial obligations should plan carefully around Mother Nature's ability to cancel trips and budget realistically for the shoulder seasons.
What does a full four-season guide year look like in Ohio?
Starting in mid-spring, Josh runs Ohio smallmouth across multiple simultaneous seasonal windows on Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers, alongside pike fishing that extends through warm weather. He transitions to Alaska for Pacific salmon guiding through early October, returns for a brief Ohio window before steelhead season opens in November and then runs Steelhead Alley through December freeze-up. Winter brings the annual musky school in Roanoke, Virginia with Blane Chocklett; spring opens destination trout trips on the White River in Arkansas; and carp provide a flexible alternative when other fisheries are unfishable.
Why are Ohio smallmouth such a compelling guide species?
Unlike steelhead, which Josh describes as largely limited to swung or indicator-presented flies, Ohio smallmouth accommodate a wide range of techniques across multiple seasonal phases — from large early-season streamers in blown-out water to crayfish patterns in low, clear conditions to topwater presentations on summer flows. That tactical variety keeps guides and clients engaged across a far longer window than most single-species programs allow. The overlapping seasonal stages across different river systems also mean a thoughtful guide can almost always find smallmouth in a fishable phase somewhere in the region.
What is the key to being a successful fishing guide?
Josh argues that the most important skill is calibrating each day to the individual client's actual skill level and genuine expectations — not the guide's own benchmark for a good outing. A beginner who lands several smallmouth while mastering a 30- to 40-foot cast has had an excellent day by their measure, which may look very different from a guide's definition of success. Open communication between guide and client about what they actually want from the day smooths out the experience and builds the kind of relationship that generates return bookings.
How does carp fishing on the fly compare to other species in Josh's program?
Josh describes carp as the closest freshwater equivalent to saltwater sight fishing available in Ohio — standing, hunting, watching and waiting before making deliberate presentations to individual fish rather than covering water. On a productive day with 10 shots at fish, he may cast only 10 to 15 times total, making each presentation count. High-water years that push smallmouth and pike fisheries off-color or out of shape have accelerated his carp development, and he now relies on it as a consistent warm-weather alternative when other species aren't cooperating.
Sponsors
Thanks to TroutRoutes for sponsoring this episode. Use ARTFLY20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership.
Related Content
S6, Ep 97: Fly Fishing Wisdom and Industry Pet Peeves with Greg Senyo
S7, Ep 40: Exploring the Carp Game: Techniques and Tales with Corey Haselhuhn of Schultz Outfitters
S8, Ep 24: From Tattoo to Trout: Aaron Chine's Dual Passion for Art and Steelhead Guiding
Connect with Our Guest
Follow Josh on Instagram.
Follow Mad River Outfitters on Instagram and YouTube.
Follow the Show
Follow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.
Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.
Support the Show
Shop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.
Join our Patreon community to support the show.
If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our consulting options.
Subscribe & Advertise
Subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast app.
Think our community is a good fit for your brand? Advertise with us.
Helpful Episode Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:26 Mentors and Early Guides
05:04 Breaking Into Guiding
09:51 A Season in Motion
14:21 Alaska Versus Home Waters
21:13 The Secret to Good Guiding
24:50 Advice for New Guides
00:00 - Introduction
02:26 - Mentors and Early Guides
05:04 - Breaking Into Guiding
09:51 - A Season in Motion
14:21 - Alaska Versus Home Waters
21:13 - The Secret to Good Guiding
24:50 - Advice for New Guides
In this episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash sits down with Josh Trammell, head guide at Mad River Outfitters, for a wide-ranging conversation about fly fishing careers, the realities of full-time guiding, and the multi-season rhythms of life on the water across the Great Lakes region and Alaska. Josh traces his development from a Steelhead Alley protégé — catching his first steelhead on a swung fly at age 11 on Elk Creek under the wing of mentors Greg Senyo, Tim Hess and the SAO crew — to a four-season professional guiding Ohio's lake-run and inland fisheries for steelhead, smallmouth bass, northern pike and carp on the fly. The conversation covers the full arc of his guide year: pre-spawn pike in late winter, smallmouth and carp fishing through spring and summer, three months at Naknek River Camp near King Salmon, Alaska, and steelhead season through November and December. Josh also discusses the annual MRO Musky School he co-leads with Blane Chocklett and Virginia Trophy Guides in Roanoke, Virginia, hosted White River trout trips in Flippin and Cotter, Arkansas, and the weekly fly tying nights he runs at Collision Bend Brewery in Euclid, Ohio. Aspiring guides will find candid, practical advice here on breaking into the profession, managing the financial realities of seasonal income, calibrating guide days to individual client expectations and building a sustainable full-time career.
EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Josh Trammell - Head Guide at Mad River Outfitters (Northeast Ohio / Steelhead Alley); also guide at Naknek River Camp (King Salmon, Alaska)
In this episode: Head Guide Josh Trammell shares his fly fishing journey and full-time guiding career with both aspiring guides and avid warm water and Great Lakes anglers. Topics include breaking into the guide game, navigating a four-season Midwest and Alaska guide year, smallmouth and pike tactics across multiple seasonal windows, sight fishing for carp on the fly, steelhead strategies on Steelhead Alley, the MRO Musky School with Blane Chocklett, and the financial and logistical realities of making guiding a full-time career.
Key fishing techniques covered: • Swinging and stripping streamers for Great Lakes steelhead on Steelhead Alley • Indicator nymphing for Lake Erie tributary steelhead • Big-streamer high-water presentations for early-season smallmouth bass • Topwater techniques for summer smallmouth bass • Sight fishing and stealthy stalking presentations for carp on the fly • Pre-spawn northern pike fishing in the January–March window
Location focus: Lake Erie tributaries and inland fisheries of Northeast Ohio (Steelhead Alley); Naknek River Camp, King Salmon area, Alaska; Roanoke, Virginia (MRO Musky School with Virginia Trophy Guides); White River, Flippin and Cotter, Arkansas
Target species: Steelhead, smallmouth bass, northern pike, carp, musky, Pacific salmon (Alaska), trout (White River)
Equipment discussed: Streamers (large and small profiles), crayfish patterns, topwater flies; Mad River Outfitters as full-service fly shop supporting the guide service
Key questions answered: • How do you break into the fly fishing guide business? • What does a full-time four-season guide year actually look like? • What is the secret to being a good fishing guide? • What is the biggest misconception people have about the life of a fishing guide? • How is guiding in Alaska different from guiding at home?
Best for: Aspiring guides and intermediate to advanced anglers interested in Great Lakes steelhead, Midwest warmwater fly fishing for smallmouth bass and pike, carp on the fly, and the business and lifestyle realities of professional guiding.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Marvin Cash
Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly. On this episode, I'm joined by Josh Trammell, head guide at Mad River Outfitters.Josh shares his fly fishing journey, his thoughts on breaking into the guide game, and the arc of his guide season. I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and subscribe. And leave us a rating and review in the podcast app of your ch. In the age of AI, it's more important than ever, and it really helps us out.And finally, a shout out to our sponsor, TroutRoutes. We all know streams and rivers are getting crowded, and chances are you're not the only one at your local access point.Get away from the crowds and busy gravel lots by using TroutRoutes Pro.With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, Trout Routes has all the data you need to help you find angling opportunities that others will overlook. Up your game and download the app today. Use code ArtFly20. ArtFly20.All one word for 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com now on to our interview. Well, Josh, welcome to the Articulate Fly.
Josh Trammell
Thanks, Marvin. Appreciate it.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. Looking forward to our conversation tonight. And you know, we have a tradition on the Articulate Fly.We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.
Josh Trammell
Sweet. Yeah, I've got, I've got two I'm gonna share with you. Like, kind of when I was just starting out fishing, we.We had a little backyard pond where I grew up in Hudson, Ohio, and there was plenty of bass and bluegill and stuff like that. So I, that's kind of what gave me the bug for fishing.And then one super important one for me is my first time steelhead fishing with Tim Hess on, on Elk Creek. I was 11 years old and caught my first ever steelhead on a. On a swung fly. And that. That kind of ruined me from, from there on out.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, it's kind of like spring turkey hunting, right? Yeah. So it sounds like you kind of were, you know, you weren't like, you know, gear, bait and then went to fly fishing.Sounds like the fly fishing thing was pretty early on in your experience.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, like, kind of when I started, it was, you know, just simple stuff, little rooster tails and bobbers and worms and whatnot. And then, you know, I found fly fishing pretty young, very, very neat.
Marvin Cash
So who are some of the folks that have kind of, kind of mentored you. Because I was blown away when we were fishing together with Dustin a few months ago at how young you are.You know, who are some of the folks that have kind of mentored you on your fly fishing journey? What have they taught you?
Josh Trammell
Yeah, so I've. I've got quite a few people that have kind of mentored me and I've taken lots of advice from over the years and, and still do.Greg Senyo kind of helped me a good bit when I was younger.Kind of kind of getting into this whole game, kind of the whole SAO crew, that steel at Alley Outfitters crew I started guiding with when I was younger. So Nate Miller, Tim Hass, Patrick Robinson, all those guys really helped me.Really kind of helped me along in my early years and gave me a lot of cool opportunities.Some folks that really help me nowadays, you know, I follow the Schultz crew very closely and have done some work with them early on in my career and they're always fun to watch and learn from them. As far as the warm water game goes, you know, I now work for Mad River Outfitters.Brian Flechsig has been super, super instrumental in the last few years as far as the business side of things and really making this a full time career. And then the Johnsons, of course, who I work for up in Alaska at Knack Neck River Camp. They've been a huge help for a long, long time for me now.
Marvin Cash
Very, very neat. And so, you know, you catch that first steelhead with Tim and you kind of got the bug, you know.When did the light bulb go off that you wanted to be a guide?
Josh Trammell
Probably as soon as we released that fish. It felt like something that I knew I wanted to pursue as a career.You know, I was still around 11, so I had, I had lots of different ideas in my head as you know, for what I wanted to do as a career. But that was definitely top on my list at that time.And you know, going to Alaska at a young age too, you know, I've been going up there Since I was 16, just about every year. And that kind of seeing how the guide game works, you know, on a more full time schedule out there was.Was super cool at a young age to be able to see that and, and definitely kind of solidified, you know, that I wanted to do this as a full time career.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, Very, very cool. So obviously pretty hard to guide if you're on a bicycle and you're 11 years old, right?
Josh Trammell
Correct, correct.
Marvin Cash
So, you know, tell me a little Bit more. And obviously you broke in really young. If you were guiding when you were 16.Tell me a little bit about kind of how you, you know, broke into the guide game at home and in Alaska.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, so through that seal at Alley Outfitters crew mostly Greg Senyo, he knew the Johnsons, Jim Johnson, his wife Phyllis. Um, they've been bringing groups up there for a number of years before I went up there.I've been hosting groups up there in the fall, I think around September. So they got me a gig up there when I was 16. Just kind of doing random camp work, you know, packing salmon, cleaning salmon gas and boats.Basically anything that was needing to get done. I was, I was a part of that program. And then just kind of getting to know a lot of the, a lot of top industry folks in our area at a young age.Definitely helped me kind of pursue this career when I was younger. And also I, you know, I was living at home, of course, during, during that time, so I didn't have many bills and things to pay for.So I had a lot of, a lot of freedom to kind of learn our fisheries and kind of learn our programs around here and that kind of stuff, which, which definitely helped. You know, I, I can think about it.If I got into it now with having a lot of bills to pay and whatnot, it definitely wouldn't be as easy to break into things as it was at a younger age.
Marvin Cash
Got it. And so kind of, how did you learn things in Ohio?Were you like, you know, shadowing like Senyo and Patrick and those guys at SAO or kind of, you know, kind of, how did you kind of figure out all that steelhead and inland fishery water?
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely shadowing those guys. I shadow Nate Miller and Tim Hess a good bit as well.And then as far as the warm water stuff around here, when my good buddy Dan Bennett, who's now in Florida, when he was still here working with me at sao, he was still living at home, you know, didn't have many bills to pay for things like that. And you know, there was, there was quite a few summers where, I mean, we were, we were spending five or six days a week for.It felt like a couple months, you know, learning our warm water programs from our smallmouth to our pike, you know, whether it was our lake run fisheries that connect to Lake Erie or inland fisheries and things like that, you know. So, yeah, there, there was a lot of people that, that helped me in, in that, in that early stage. Yeah.
Marvin Cash
Interesting.And so with the SAO guys, were you like following them on guide trips or were you kind of out fun fishing and with them when they were looking at water?
Josh Trammell
Kind of a little bit of both.I would shadow those folks on some guided trips and then I'd also get to go out and fun fish with them and kind of learn some of the programs, learn how they would rig certain things and whatnot. And, yeah, that definitely helped a ton.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. So did you start guiding in Alaska first, or were you guiding at SAO first?
Josh Trammell
Um, I would say I. I started guiding in Alaska. I got to. I got to take only a couple trips up there when I was 16.I. I got to also kind of shadow some of the guides that have been working up there for a while.Um, but I, I really kind of started up there and back here when I was like 17, 18 years old, and then really, really got started with the busyness of it around that, like 18, 19.
Marvin Cash
Got it. Anybody kind of in. In Alaska in particular was really kind of influential in your guide development?
Josh Trammell
I wouldn't say anyone in particular.What I love about that crew up there is we all love to bounce ideas off of each other, and we really have formed a super, super cool bond over the years and we've, we've figured out some really, really cool stuff and it's made us all better anglers. So I, like I said I wouldn't pick any one person in particular.It's just that that whole crew that I worked up there for a number of years, which is rare in that, particularly in our area, to have. Have crews of guides that have worked at One Lodge for more than like two or three years.We have a lot of, A lot of folks that are seven, eight, you know, all the way up to 10, 11 seasons under their belt at one lodge, which is pretty cool.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. Pretty neat. And so, you know, it's interesting.And one of the reasons I really want to talk about the guide stuff is I get a lot of questions on the podcast with guys that are maybe a little bit younger than you that kind of want to break into the game. And so you are a legit full time, four season guy. This is what you do. It's not a side hustle for you. And so I was kind of curious.We're recording this kind of Steelhead season is over. You're chasing smallmouth.But kind of walk us maybe starting like, say now, mid May, kind of through the whole kind of season, you know, of your guide season, so people kind of get an idea about what your year looks like.
Josh Trammell
Yeah. So this time of year you know, we're in full swing as far as far as smallmouth goes.What's cool about what I do, especially for smallmouth is I have multiple different seasons going on within this season with the smallmouth because I, I have fish up here that are in, you know, along Lake Erie and along the tributaries that are still pre spawn and then I have some that are right in the middle of spawn and some of our inland tributaries and then some are, have been completely wrapped up for a couple weeks. So I have a, a wide range of, of seasons within seasons to mess around with.And you know, when some fisheries are busy with the spawn, I can avoid them and, and let them do their thing. And the pike fishing is great during this time of year as well.And once June rolls around and the carp finished spawning up, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll start doing some of that in June and July.I'll go up to Alaska, be up there for oh, probably about the first, second week of October, get back, have a little bit of time, maybe do a little bit of smallmouth and pike guiding as long as it's not too, too crazy cold. And then right back into the busy season for out in November and December till things freeze over.You know, sometimes we'll get a January February season, but it's rare.Especially these last couple years it's been such a harsh winter that January and February is kind of our, our off season and then we're, we're hitting the ground running again.And in March and April, if we, if we do have a season in January and February, that is one of my favorite times to get out for, for pike because it's their pre spawn, you know, before they spawn around that late February, early March timeframe. But unfortunately Mother Nature has had other plans for the pre spawn pike fishing these last couple years.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, much more conducive to drinking beer, eating wings and tine flies.
Josh Trammell
Right, exactly. Exactly.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so I mean that's a ton. So I mean how do you juggle that, you know, particularly being, you know, away from home and managing things.I mean, how do you kind of juggle all those different pieces of the season and kind of keep it from driving you nuts?
Josh Trammell
Lots of caffeine definitely helps and like honestly like you to be able to do it in the capacity that I do it and like so many different things, like you really gotta love it. Like once you, once you start to dislike it, then you gotta pick up and you, you gotta, you gotta do something else.Like I, I live and Breathe this stuff and wouldn't rather be doing anything else. And that's kind of what keeps me going, you know, even during these real, real busy schedules.I mean, there's, there's times that I'm driving 15, 20 minutes from home for a guide day, and there's times that I'm driving two hours one way. But, you know, I wouldn't want it any other way. I love what I do and I love, love the way that I get to do it as well.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. Very, very neat. So are you coffee or monster energy drink guy?
Josh Trammell
I have been on the Celsius energy drinks for a while. I'm actually, I'm one of the few fishing guides that doesn't drink coffee at all.
Marvin Cash
Interesting. Vapes and Zens. Cigarettes.
Josh Trammell
No cigarettes. A Zen from time to time. Probably don't need to make it more than time to time. Um, but now I'm, I'm, I'm pretty pure as far as that goes.Right now I got you.
Marvin Cash
So you're not, you know, you're not doing those like mocha coffee zins or anything crazy like that?
Josh Trammell
No, no, nothing. Nothing too crazy like that.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.And so I think probably folks probably have a pretty good idea of kind of what, you know, steelhead guiding on the alley is like and what fishing for smallmouth, you know, in the Midwest is like.But you know, I know you're lucky because you're senior now, so you get to kind of show up late to Alaska and kind of complain about why stuff's not the way it's supposed to be. But you. So that's a totally different jam, you know, in terms of the season. But, you know, talk.Can you talk to us a little bit more about kind of how that day to day grind of guiding in Alaska is different from being at home and guiding?
Josh Trammell
Yeah, I, I'd say it's a, it's honestly just a little bit more kind of chill and laid back. Not necessarily laid back, but it's on a little bit more of a, more of a schedule than this is here.You know, my, my start times and end times and drive times all vary when I'm here. Whereas, you know, most of the time we're on the dock around eight, you know, finishing up our fishing days around four.And then there's not a whole lot to do before going out on the water and after getting back off the water in Alaska as there is here.You know, there's, as you know, for most of the guides that you've talked to, there's, there's a lot of pre and post work that goes into a lot of our guide days, which we just don't, don't have a ton of that up in Alaska, which is, which is nice. You know, there's a lot of back to back days. You know, it's. It's pretty much six days a week with Saturdays off for. For three months straight.But it's, it's a little bit more like a, like a regular 9 to 5 kind of schedule, which is, which is nice.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so are you kind of close to town? So you can kind of run into town or like, you know, how do you deal with all the downtime?Cause also, I mean, you got generators and all that kind of stuff going on too. It's not like you just get to sit down and watch Netflix all day, right?
Josh Trammell
Well, 10 years ago when I first started up there, yeah, it was, it was pretty, pretty dismal as far as after work activities. But we've got Starlink up there. My roommate and I, Josh Lafferty, we just put a TV in there.So it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty cushy nowadays after we get off the water. But yeah, we're, we're fairly close to town. It's. It's a cool setup and that. We're, we're not like super far off the grid and way out in the bush.Like a lot of these other lodges can be where you have to, you know, if you want beer and alcohol for the summer, you gotta order it at the beginning of the season. And, you know, that's what you get.You know, we're, we're within 20, 25 minutes from the town of King Salmon, and they have everything you need and nothing that you don't. There's an airport, there's a grocery store with a liquor store attached, and there's two bars and a post office. It's great.You don't, you don't need anything more than that.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. So tell people like how. You know, someone told me like one time how much a bag of Doritos cost.Tell people how expensive stuff is because it has to be flown in, right?
Josh Trammell
Oh, yeah, it's. Some of it can be pretty insane. I mean, the gallon of milk, for example, can be like 12 to 15 bucks.One of the light beers that we drink up there, it's. It's a west coast beer called Rainier. Um, that for an 18 pack, you're gonna. Oh, God, it's. It's probably over 40 bucks now.Um, gas typically can be like 7 bucks a gallon, something like that. It's, It's. It's pretty wild how much the. The prices are up there. Yeah.
Marvin Cash
What was your. What has been your kind of dumbest or most extravagant splurge in that kind of realm while you've been guiding.
Josh Trammell
Oh, you're. You're talking about up there in Alaska.
Marvin Cash
Exactly.
Josh Trammell
I might have to. I might have to think about that one for a minute. We might have to come back at the end.
Marvin Cash
All right.
Josh Trammell
And think you'll be like, I had.
Marvin Cash
To have a thing of Haagen Dazs and it was 50 bucks.
Josh Trammell
Right, right. I did splurge on. We got off the beer this year, and we were making some cocktails. We were making some Moscow meals and that kind of stuff.And they only had one brand of ginger beer up there. They had Topo Tico ginger beer that was. Had been expired for about, I don't know, a month or two.And it was 14 or 15 bucks for a little four pack of those, which we got, I think, about five drinks out of. So that was. That was definitely splurging a little bit. Vodka's pretty insane up there as well. It's. It's hard to.It's hard to not call spending any money splurging, if that makes sense, because everything's expensive up there.
Marvin Cash
No, absolutely.And so, you know, if we kind of come back to kind of the fish that you're chasing, do you have a favorite species that you like to chase on the fly when you're guiding?
Josh Trammell
Hmm. I definitely like the smallmouth just because it. It takes us through so many different seasons and techniques.Like, that's, that's why I love them, is you can do so many different things with them versus, you know, you know, our steelhead programs. It's. It's kind of. It's either stripping streamers or swinging streamers or it's. It's the indicator thing.But, you know, smallmouth, there's dreads in the bottom with crayfish. There's fishing, you know, big streamers early in the season and high water, you know, little streamers, top water.There's so many different avenues that you can. You can roll with that.
Marvin Cash
Interesting. Does your answer change if you're fun fishing?
Josh Trammell
No, not. Not so much. I. I have definitely gotten into the carp game a good bit these. These past few years, these past, like, three or four years. And that's.That's been super fun. It's. It's been kind of a. A challenge that I really, really enjoy.And it's, it's super similar to the salt water and that, you know, you're standing up, you're hunting, you're looking, you're waiting, you're not sending a whole bunch of casts. You know, if we, if we see, if we have 10 opportunities in a day, you know, we're making 10 to 15 casts in a day. It's, it's, it's great.
Marvin Cash
Interesting. Is that something that kind of Dustin kind of nudged you into?
Josh Trammell
He was definitely talking about it a good bit. I, I, I definitely have messed around with it in the last, the last few years more than I have in the last 10 to 15 or so.Like, last year, we had a ton of high water, and a lot of our smallmouth fisheries and pipe fisheries were, were really high, and it was a struggle for me to get on them consistently. But a lot of the carp fisheries were pretty clear and running at a good level to where we could do that a lot more than smallmouth.So, you know, it's, it's, it's becoming something that I can kind of fall back on if other, other things aren't available. And it's been really, really fun to dive deeper and deeper into that.
Marvin Cash
Very, very neat. And so I like to, Josh, always ask guide guests to share, you know, what they think the secret to being a good guide is.
Josh Trammell
So something for me that I've definitely learned over the years of doing this is, you know, you got to be able to kind of cater each day according to each client's, you know, skill levels and expectations. You know, success is measured in so many different ways.You know, sometimes, like my view of a successful day, it can be way different from, from a customer's view, you know, especially if there's somebody that's just starting out, you know, catching a handful of smallmouth and learning how to really get a good cast that's 30, 40ft can be a huge success in a beginner customer's mind.And I feel like sometimes, you know, wanting to get those big hero shots and things like that can overshadow what that customer really wants in a day.And like I said, that success can be measured in so many different ways, and being able to kind of adjust accordingly to each customer's view and expectations, I think is really important.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, it's interesting. It's always amazing to me how reluctant people are to tell their guide what they want to do in a day.
Josh Trammell
Right, right.
Marvin Cash
You know, it's interesting. I used to coordinate the Project Healing Waters program here in Charlotte. And we would take the guys out and I was like, guys, this is your day.You need to tell the guy what you want to do. Do you want to catch a couple big fish? You want to catch a lot of fish? And you know, it wasn't just Project Healing Waters guys. It's in general.I think a lot of times clients are really reluctant to tell their guides what they want to do on the water.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah, for sure.And it's, it's important to have that, that communication between, between us and our customers and it, I think it forms a better bond and relationship between the two. Yeah, yeah, it just makes, makes days easier overall.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, what do you think's the biggest misconception people have about the life of a fishing guide?
Josh Trammell
I would say that the biggest misconception is probably that we're living the dream 100% of the time.There's, there's a lot of, a lot of things that can happen before, after trips or on our off days and things like that, trailer trouble, car trouble, you know, all that sort of stuff that, you know, that it sometimes can make you question why, why you're doing this and things like that.But you know, then, then we'll, then, you know, I'll turn around that next day after having some, you know, blown out trailer bearing or something like that.I'll be on the water with some good customers and they'll be like, you know, you're, you know, you're, you're really living the dream doing this stuff.And you know, I gotta, I gotta kind of think back to when I was young and like this was really my dream and now I'm actually living it and you know, I, I can't, can't take it for granted.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too because I think a lot of people don't realize that you probably spend probably, you know, four hours of prep and cleanup time for every day that you're out.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. It's interesting.And so, you know, like I said earlier and you touched on this a little bit about being able to kind of live at home and it made it easier for you to kind of break into the guide game.But you know, for, for these guys that are, you know, DMing me on Instagram or sending me emails, be like, hey, you know, ask somebody like, you know, what's the secret? Or what should I do if I want to kind of break into the guide game and be a full time guide? You know, what advice do you have for Him.
Josh Trammell
I would say definitely be realistic about your goals.And you know, one, one thing that I've had to do as I've gotten older is you know, like, like I mentioned living at home when I was younger and not having a whole lot of expenses when I started out and you know, I'd get home from Alaska and have a big paycheck and oh man, that rod looks nice. Or you know, this pair of waders and boots looks pretty sweet too.And you know, I, I blow it all pretty early and unfortunately I can't do that because I have a lot of, a lot of bills and you know, a lot of things to pay for and stuff like that. So, you know, somebody's starting out and they're around my age, in their mid-20s, you know, early 20s or you know, wherever.You know, be realistic about your expenses and your goals and stuff like that. And you know, there's mother Nature is especially around our area, kind of really controls when you can and cannot.Um, so that, that's something you gotta kind of factor into, you know, how, how you're gonna make this a full time career as well. Cause you, you can't just book a bunch of days and you know, automatically expect that you're gonna be able to run every single one of them.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And I know you're lucky too.Like, I know your, your winners have been pretty grim, but by being a four season guy, you know, you're lucky that you're not trying to make your nut for the year in like 90 or 100.
Josh Trammell
Correct.You know, it just, it, it takes a lot of, a lot of planning beforehand, you know, and I put myself into some situations financially that I don't really want to be in sometimes. But it's just, you know, you, you learn from mistakes and, and whatnot.And it, it definitely, it, it helps in the long run kind of, kind of planning things out.
Marvin Cash
Yeah.And you know, another hat that you wear, you know, so you're in Alaska with Knack Neck River Camp and you know, you guide for mro, but you're also their head guide. And so I was kind of curious, you know, what delightful administrative things you do for Brian and the folks in the shop in that role.If you could share that with our listeners.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah. So there's not a whole lot that goes into it on the back end.Like when Dustin's home from Wyoming and Rob Huffman's here as well and we're kind of running our busy steelhead season.That's definitely what we book the most trips for there's a lot of times we're running six, seven days a week for a couple months straight as long as we don't get blown out by the weather and, and whatnot.So it's, it's a little bit of paperwork and computer work, kind of organizing some things after we get off the water and make sure certain files are put into certain folders and just kind of make sure the, the ship's running smoothly. But yeah, there, there's not a whole lot that goes into it, thankfully.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so are you like running the guide calendar for the shop or is the shop booking trips? I mean, is that kind of part.
Josh Trammell
Of it or Y shop is booking all the trips and things like that.And then you know, once, once the trip is built, you know, we do a lot of things on, on Google Drive so I can see it all remotely so I, I can take a little bit off their plate and you know, once, once they build the trip and it's put into the Google Drive, you know, I have access to be able to kind of handle everything from there on out, whether it needs to be rescheduled or you know, you know, all sorts of different things.So you know, the shop's busy enough that you know, when the guide service gets really busy, it's, it's nice for me to be able to take a little bit of work off their hands with the shop being so busy.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, because you live what, probably what, an hour and a half, hour and 45 minutes from the shop. Right. And so does like Dustin and the guys that are guiding out on the alley.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah, we're all about 2 hours, 2 hours, 15 minutes, something like that.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so interesting too.And I mean you touched on this a little bit earlier but you know, talk a little bit about the advantages of having, you know, it's one thing to be a guide and you could be an independent guide or outfitter, but you know, to be able to have a full service fly shop like Mad river kind of behind you and kind of what does that you know, mean from you know, making the impact it has on your guiding but also you know, your clients experience.
Josh Trammell
Yeah.So it's, it's always nice to have somewhere you can send your customers that you know is going to be reliable and you know, not just carry a whole bunch of gear for a bunch of different fisheries. But you know, you can have that customer call or walk into that shop and you know, know they're going to be well taken care of.You know, we have an insanely Good staff that, that works for our shop that are talented in so many different ways. Customer service wise and fishing wise. That is. It's super cool to have that behind. Behind our guide service.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, it's an amazing. I had an opportunity to go in the shop after I fished with you guys and I mean, dude, it's an operation, isn't. That's an understatement.
Josh Trammell
Yeah. And it's, it's every. Everybody's got a role and everybody does that role extremely well.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so, you know, we had mentioned before we started recording, we were talking you had just gotten back from a White river trip.But I know one of the things that you do at MRO is you're kind of the guy doing like the muskie schools and all these kind of little destination travel schools around the country for mro. You want to talk a little bit about that?
Josh Trammell
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I get to do the muskie school with Blane Chocklett and the crew at Virginia Trophy Guides down in Roanoke, Virginia Every, every January.That's, that's been super cool. I think we've done it. I think this year, 2026. I think that was, I think this is our third season doing that and it's, it's always been super cool.I had always wanted to do a hosted group down there with my buddies that work for Virginia Trophy Guides.And you know, the shop has always worked super closely with Blaine over the years and we kind of meshed it into a school and a trip all in one and it's, it's a really unique offering in that, you know, most of these hosted groups that you go on, you know, you show up, you eat, you drink and you fish.But this one is, you know, muskie, as we all know, is a, is a different caliber species and it takes a different type of person to, to be able to do it and be, be successful at it.So having a, having a one day masterclass and on the front end of things, followed up by four days of fishing is, is a super cool program and everybody that's come on it has, has always, always taken something away from it, which has been super, super cool. And then, yeah, I get to do some other travel trips.I get to do, get to do the White river every year down in Flippin and Cotter, Arkansas with Ben Woodard and his crew at the, at the White River Trout Club. That's always a super fun one. We did caddis this year. Did. I think we're going to go back and we're going to do some sulphurs maybe in June next year.So yeah, I get to get to do a good bit of stuff. It's super fun.
Marvin Cash
Interesting. Any other kind of schools, destination, things you're involved with other than the Muskie School and the White River?
Josh Trammell
Nothing. Nothing right now. Got some other things in the works for the future that will hopefully pan out. But yeah, I keep a pretty busy guide season.That's, that's definitely where, where most of my income comes from. But it's, it's always fun to be able to get away and, and host these other like the Muskie School and the White river and, and things like that. Yeah.
Marvin Cash
And I guess if folks are interested in either of those, I guess what the best place is probably. I wouldn't, it would not surprise me if the dates aren't already up for 2027 to go to the MRO website, right?
Josh Trammell
Yep, yep. You can, yeah, you can go to our website.You know, you can always, always message me on Instagram, Facebook, things like that if you want to find out more info and, and things like that.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And I guess you come back from Alaska and you start guiding for Steelhead.Are you and Dustin planning to do your tying nights starting next fall and into the winter?
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah, we're, we'll probably start those up November, December. Um, that was something really cool that we started up at our local brewery here in Euclid, Ohio. Collision Bend Brewery.Every Tuesday night, 6:30 to 9, we have a, have a pretty regular crew of like nine or ten people show up and it was, it was a cool way to kind of get the, get the Cleveland community involved and, and learn and you know, meet a bunch of other other folks around the area.
Marvin Cash
Very cool. Have you figured out how much money you raised with your special edition beer?
Josh Trammell
I will find out probably next week. I gotta, I gotta find that out pretty soon. So.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. So you wanna let the listeners know if they haven't been able to make it to one of the tying events.The beer and what you, the money you raised and what you're using it for.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, yeah. So we, we did a collaboration beer with, with Collision Bend Brewery in Euclid, Ohio and then Mad River Outfitters out of Columbus.It's a, it's a hella style lager. It's called the Steelhead Sipa.And a dollar from Mad River Outfitters and a dollar from Collision Bend off of every pipe sold is going to the Cleveland Metro Parks Fisheries Fund. So you know, going directly into our fisheries around this area, which if you're familiar with a Lot of our steelhead alley streams.A lot of the access points, especially the stuff that's close to Cleveland, is all Cleveland, Cuyahoga county metro parks area.
Marvin Cash
Very, very cool. And the food there is very good as well.
Josh Trammell
Very, very good.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. And so before I let you hop this evening, is there anything else you want to share with our listeners?
Josh Trammell
No, I think we covered pretty much everything.
Marvin Cash
Yeah. You're not going to be in Alaska fishing and being like, darn, I wish I, like, brought that up.
Josh Trammell
Hopefully not. Hopefully not.
Marvin Cash
Yeah, hopefully not. And, you know, nothing more extravagant than sell by two old Topo Chico ginger beer for crazy purchases in Alaska.
Josh Trammell
Correct.
Marvin Cash
All right, well, we'll stick with that one. And so what's the best way, Josh, for folks to follow your adventures on the water and at the vice or to book a day with you on the water?
Josh Trammell
I would say I'm probably most active on Instagram. You can always just shoot me a message there or kind of follow along. My Instagram is just J and then my last name trammell72.You know, I'm pretty active on the Mad River Outfitters Instagram as well. That's just matter of our outfitters. And then, you know, always feel free to give the call or get. Give the shop call and.And get on my schedule that way and. And things like that.
Marvin Cash
It was super cool. I will drop links to all that stuff in the show notes.And Josh, I appreciate you carving out some time for me, but before you head up to Alaska for the summer.
Josh Trammell
Yeah, appreciate you having me on, Marvin. This was a pleasure.
Marvin Cash
Absolutely. Take care. Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.Don't forget to check out the links to all this episode's sponsors in the show notes. Tight lines, everybody.
