S8, Ep 78: From Bass to Big Sky: Eric Hurst on Boat Tunes, Big Flies and Keeping It Real

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.On this episode, I'm joined by Eric Hurst, the man behind the Thrasher, and the Agent Scully.We talk about guiding, tying his recent journey westward, and everything in between.I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and subscribe and leave us a rating review in the podcast app of your choice.In the age of AI, it's more important than ever, and it really helps us out.And a shout out to our sponsor TroutRoutes.It's a fact none of us get to fish as much as we want.Almost overnight, planning a fishing trip went from a gazetteer and word of mouth to the entire Internet.There have never been more resources available for fishing, but it's a challenge trying to wade through the digital noise to find the most current and relevant information.Spend less time surfing the Internet and more time on the water with TroutRoutes.With over 350,000 access points mapped across 50,000 trout streams and much more, TroutRoutes has all the data you need to help you make the most of your time on the water.Where I fish in southern Appalachia, figuring out how to get off the water can be as important as finding it in the first place.With TroutRoutes, I can mark the best spots to get out of the water so I don't find myself in a valley I can't climb out of.As the sun goes down, up your game and download the app Today, use code artfly20 artfly20 all one word for 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com.Now on to our interview.Well, Eric, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

Hey Marvin, thanks for having me on.

Yeah, dude, I'm super looking forward to our conversation.And we have a tradition on The Articulate Fly.We like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

My earliest fishing memory.I'll go back in the archives and say that my earliest fishing memory is probably a lot like a lot of people's a little popper on top for with a bluegill, I think I was in.It was definitely Alabama because that's where I was born and raised.But like catching bluegill will always be the memory that I've had.You know, this is something simple but fun and I feel like sometimes I go back to that.Like I'll go back to like a, a pond with a bluegill or like a little bass or something.Just, just to like check yourself.

Yeah, it's important to get back to your roots.Now, was that on a fly rod or did you come to fly fishing later, man.

So I came to, I came to fly fishing later.I grew up in Alabama, bass fishing with my dad.And I just remember just like going out with worms and stuff, you know, we were now like, I don't know if you want to go etiquette wise, but we used to get rowdy with like worms and this whatever cricket, you know, I remember going and buying this like a thing of crickets and just getting them.And now I'm going and trying deer hair on and feathers on hooks and just not getting them.It's like, what are we doing?Why do we make our life so much harder just to be better?I don't know.

So, you know, the trick with the crickets is you got to keep them in the cooler so they don't start moving around, right?

Yeah, exactly.You got to freeze them.

Yeah.So.So when did you actually start fly fishing?

Fly fishing came later in my life.I was the bass fisherman forever.But I got into rock and roll.First of all.I, I, I played the strings on the guitar more than I fished for a minute.And I got into fly fishing on my own.Honestly, like, I don't know what, it was a weird one.Like I picked it up maybe 15 years ago or 10, 10 or 15 years ago.Like, I'm weird with dates but like, I just like got into it because I like being in the woods, I like being around water.But like I grew up just catching fish on like, just junk, you know.Now I'm just like tying flies and catching them on stuff that I created.So this is really cool to me.

Yeah.Neat.And so, you know, were you self taught or did you have some kind of fly fishing?

Like, I'm actually pretty self taught, honestly.Like, I was, I scanned over some of your questions.Like I've never really had like mentors or anything.Like I got into it like, like I grew up like spin fishing and stuff.My dad loved fishing, you know, but like fly fishing came kind of out of nowhere, honestly.And I've always had like an artistic side of my mind, you know?And like I always like drawing and like watercolor and stuff.And like I just get like fly time.Just like I called on the fly time because it's like an art, right?And like all the balance and like proportions and color, like somebody told me the other day is like your color blends are next level.And I think it comes from that artistic side.But, like, I've never had anybody, like, teach me or show me other than, like, I grew up in the YouTube era, where I can look at everybody, you know, or learn from everybody.

Yeah, it's super neat.You know, it's so funny because so many people I interview on the articulate fly are musicians and artists.

Yeah, I think there's something to it, man.Like, I don't know, like, fly tying to me is.I mean, it's definitely an art, but like, this, I don't know, like, the blending color and it makes me feel comfortable.And like, you catch.If you ever catch a fish on a fly that you tied, it's just like the best feeling in the world.

Yeah, I would agree with that.And so, you know, so you kind of came to fly fishing later.When did you get the guide bug?

Oh, I got the guide bug.I think I've been guiding almost 10 years, or, you know, give or take, but, like, I've been ripping.I love guiding.I love teaching.What I was saying to somebody earlier, it was like, if you get in my boat, like, I am your teacher, you know, I want to fish through you, and I want you to and me to be on the same page.So once I felt that, like, I got confident, I guess I was getting confident in your guide game, you know, like, if you get in my bed, I'm confident.And now that I'm out west, it's like I'm learning new water and stuff.And it's like, I really feel like it takes a team.Right.And I. I want to fish with you and for you.

Yeah, very neat.And so you cut your teeth right?On kind of the.The Georgia tailwaters around Atlanta, right?

Yeah, I was out of.Yeah, I was out of Georgia.I worked at Alpharetta Outfitters killer shop.And all those dudes are kick ass.And I just never.Like, I did really well there.I did Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia, of course.And I just love the game out there, you know, I just beat myself up too much, I guess.Like, I, like, got in my head, I wanted bigger, better things, and I was like, I gotta go to the Mecca, you know, just to experience it, you know?Nothing against the South.The Southeast is always home, you know, I'm never gonna not.That's never not gonna be home to me.So now, like, I was like, I gotta go experience Montana, you know, it's just like, that's where the.All the drift boats are made.That's where I have to be.

Yeah.Dude, it's.Well, my.My heart lives there too, so it's kind of interesting.So when you were breaking into the guide game in Georgia, you know, did you do it by being a shop rat or like, you know, kind of.How did you get the break and start taking people out for money?

I kind of built my name and this like, there was another question on your thing.I built my name on my own, which is kind of like, I feel like that's the most kick ass way to do it.Right.Nobody helped me.Like, I never had help.I started from ground zero and even in the guide world, I never.One of your questions really resonated with me where it was like, it.You was that one.It was like a mentor.

Yeah, that's the next question.So your time is perfect, right?

I scan.I scanned it.Right.I scanned it 30 minutes before the interview because I wanted it to be raw, you know?

Yeah.

I don't like to overthink stuff.I like to be real.But, like, I never had a mentor other than YouTube or whatever, you know, My mentors are the fly tying.Fly tying is like the only thing I really delved into.Like, all like Charlie Craven, Kelly Galloup, you know, the usual suspects.But like, guiding and stuff is like, I jumped into this game and this took off on my own.Like, for some reason it just clicked.I don't know if that makes sense with anybody or resonates with anybody.Like, I never had anybody to like, talk to or anything.You know what I mean?

Yeah.So how long did it take you to kind of crack the code on the tailwaters?

A couple years.You know what I mean?Like, I figured out my game and I just got nasty on it.Like, I was just like 100.I'm always 110% with anything I do.You know what I mean?

Yep.

Like, even if I'm ripping guitar, drawing or whatever, like, I like, I get into my stuff, you know, and like, this is.Took off in a way that I've never felt anything take off with me personally.Like, I got into it, like, and it felt right, you know?

Yeah.And so when you said you kind of built your own business, were you doing it on Instagram?You know, were you doing it by word of mouth?

Instagram is like, definitely the thriving point.Like, it was like free advertising, you know, I didn't have to pay for anything.And then I just like started ripping and.And I was just being myself.You know what I mean?

Yeah, dude.And you're.I mean, your pictures on Instagram Are awesome.

Yeah.I was always into photography for my granddad, my mom's dad.I. I have his camera right here.It's like a Canon AE one.And I shot film for a little bit, you know, But I always love, like, I just love, like, if you're gonna do something like, why not get a good picture?

Yeah.And they're so much better than just gripping grands.Right.I mean, like, I mean they're just.They're really good.Right?

I get those like, as a guide.Like, some people are like, do you even catch fish?It's like, yeah, I catch fish, but I don't have to prove anything to anybody.Does that make sense?

It's a hundred percent.Makes sense.

I don't have to show you anything that I don't have to show you.But if you like me, then like me.

Yeah.I always say, you know, all the only feedback I need from the fish is that I'm not out there just waving a stick around for nothing.Right?Like, yeah, I can fish all day and just get a follow.And I'm like, yeah, we're on it, right?

Yeah, but like with my client.Yeah, exactly.But like with my clients and stuff, like, if that's their first fish or something, I'll get that, you know, like, congratulations, you know, but like all the other stuff in between is this, like, enjoy it.You know, I think I grew up in a special period where we didn't have, like, I didn't have to prove something to somebody on social media.Like, we enjoy stuff and just enjoy it.Like that fish is living.Put it back and let it grow and enjoy it.I think I got like, I love to get a good big fish picture, you know, don't get me wrong.But like, I don't have to just spray and pray all over the Internet to make my name, you know?

Yeah.It's kind of.

I kind of like being secret.

Yeah.It's kind of funny because, you know, at this point, like, I have more than enough fish pictures and I think the only person that would ever care is just me.Right.

I'm kind of tired of seeing it.

Yeah.But, you know, so I almost never take fish pictures anymore and.Because what I say is I have it in my mind.

Yeah.

And.And not that people don't care, but like, no one cares as much as I care.And like, as soon as I don't remember it anymore, it's kind of gone forever and it's okay.

Right.Like, bless their hearts, but it's like this fish need to be fish like, you know, like you had a family reunion.You don't want your, hey, this is the best you ever looked.That's it.I don't want to be known.I don't want to be known for that.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So just like, take their.Take their picture.Let them be fish and enjoy it.And I just think, like, we're living in a world where it's just like, we expect so much from anything and it's like, just didn't.Just be yourself and love what you love, be passionate about what you love and be better for the world and the, you know, your community.

Yeah.Very neat.And so it's interesting, right?So you're ripping in down in Georgia.You dial it in after a few years.

Golly.I had her dialed in there.I was living it.I. I, like, I could go back there now that I know some of the flies out here.I'll be ripping.

Yeah.And so, you know, you.You did that, but then you kind of had this itch to kind of go west, and you just kind of finished your first season out in Montana.

Yeah.So I haven't guided out here.One of your questions is like, have you guided?And I was like, I'm working with Kelly and Kelly's like.I think he's mentioned that he would love to have me on the permit or whatever, but it's like, me mentally coming out of.So I'm gonna get personal here, if that's cool.

That's cool.

So I'm coming out of a divorce.14 Year divorce.And I was still.That's my best friend still.And it's just me, like, chasing my dreams.But, like, now that I've had five or six months off, like, I've been trying to, like, refine myself, like, as human and being my, you know, just trying to find myself in general.I've lost myself.And I went through a little bad period in my life, you know, nothing bad to anybody.I never did bad, anybody other than myself, you know, But I'm trying to, like, everybody always sees me as like, the best tire, you know, or not the best, but like a good tire and just having fun, you know.Whenever you see a picture of me, it looks like I'm having the best time.And sometimes I just have the worst times.But, like, I think I'm coming out of that rut, though.And now, like, once again, like, I'm not gonna guide if I'm not mentally stable, you know, and like, I don't know the water out here.So I want to learn the water, Remember?I don't know if you remember tell me telling you that, but it's like, I'm never gonna guide if I'm not 110% confident in my game.So it's gonna.Like, I've guided.I know I can get fish out here.I've caught fish with people, but it's like, I'm not gonna guide.I'm not gonna get you in my boat if I'm not confident.So I'm building up my confidence again in my life.I took a little downfall, you know, and now I'm like in new water and stuff.And I love the challenge.It's only gonna make me stronger, better.So now I'm just learning.I'm back to my learning stage, and I think this is what I need right now.

Yeah, that's super cool.And so, you know, I. I didn't.I'd always like looking at your pictures.I thought you were guiding, but I unders.And I totally get the.

Because, yeah, I was gonna mention that to you, but it'.I haven't been guiding only like five months, like, but five months off from guiding has made me realize, like, what a grind guiding is.Like, I think that's what tore me up mentally.Like, I love it, and I'm really good.If you talk to any of my clients, they were like, you know, I don't think you'll ever hear bad just cause I go too hard.I was coming off my trips, it's like so burnt out, you know, just mentally, because I gave it all to them, you know, and I loved it, though.I'm not like, it sounds like it's like I'm mad at it or like bummed about it, but it's like, it does wear and tear on your mind.I don't care what guide you talk to.It's like it.It wears you out on a different level on the backside if you give it, you know?

Yeah.I think there are unique challenges to guiding, but I would also say too, that, you know, anybody that wants to do anything at a high level.

Yeah, exactly.

It's very.It's very emotionally expensive, right?

Yeah.I think.I think I just got.I lost myself because I lost myself in other people.I put myself in too many other.I wanted everybody else to have fun, but I forgot that I had to have fun too, or be happy.And I was like, I was just like clocking in nine, you know, doing eight hours.You know, it's like, it's a personal thing, like, ever.If you're A guy.And I know there's guys that's done it for 40, 50 plus years and that's congratulations.But it wore me the smack out.Maybe I was just going too hard.I would love to talk to them about it.

Yeah, I think it's tough.So, I mean, so, you know, the good news is, you know, you know, you're kind of spending a little bit of time working on yourself and kind of getting things kind of back.But you've clearly been fishing, so it'd be super cool.Yeah.To hear your thoughts on, like, the differences between fishing, like, you know, southeastern tailwaters and fishing out kind of in the Holy Grail waters of Montana.

Holy Grail out here is definitely trout specific.You know, they eat.They eat them out here.They eat like this.

Cool.

Like, I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed since I've been out here is like, ma.Like, actually they eat the hatch.That was like a big thing to me.They're like, really keyed in on that.And back east is like.Yeah, they're keyed in on it.You know, you get like a good sulphur hatch on the South Holsten.You know, all that.But like, they only want that out here.

Yeah.Very cool.Did you hit the salmon fly hatch this year?

Yeah, salmon fly is kind of a weird one this year.It's like, they would.We got a couple good ones.I feel like salmon fly fishing is like streamer fishing.It's like just kind of.You gotta just get her tucked in there.Right.You know, and then right place, right time.It.It was weird.Like, I think Kelly said it too.It's just like, it sounds fun getting them on, like, big foam, you know, but like, it's not all that.I'd rather get a good caddis hatch, honestly.Or like just any other dry.Yeah.

So do you think you'll be guiding next season in Montana, or do you still have more homework?

Oh, no, I'm gonna.I'm gonna get back on the boat.You know, I just, like, I have that in my blood.Like, as much as I said I had to work on myself, I do miss it.Not waking up at like 4 or 5am and like, riffing with some new people every day in my boat.I do miss that.

Yeah.

I was like, I'm good at guiding, you know, or not.Like, is that weird to say?

No, I think it's okay to say.

I guess it's like I'm con.Like more just like I feel like it's at home when I'm in My boat with a couple new people that's never fly fished.Like, it just makes me feel confident in my game whenever it's like, hey, I got these two new people, and they never fly fish, and I'm gonna get them on their best fish or a fish.

Yeah.So tell me what it's like, you know, a day on the boat with Eric Hurst.

A day on the boat with me is just a. I mean, a day with me in general is just a ripper.Like, I'm just a part.I'm a party.Like you.Anybody that's ever met me, it's like, I just have fun.Like, I signed up to have fun, and I signed up to teach.And, like, I want other people to be better because of me.Like, I'm not.Like, I'm not a person that wants other people to fail.Like, I want to teach you as much as I can.I want.I want you to have memories of me, you know?Like, I just want to have a good time, I guess, is basically what it boils down to.

Yeah.Tunes on the Boat.

What's up?

Tunes on the boat.

Yeah.Hell, yeah.You got a riff.You got to have some Rolling Stones.You got to have some heavy stuff, too, though, and then whatever you want to bring.I love tunes on the boat.I don't think the fish care.I think it almost attracts them.And all that banana stuff can get out of my face.You bring all your bad luck with me.I want to break bad luck.I'm a big bad luck breaker.I want to make stuff good.I want to make bad luck, good luck.

Yeah, that's a.That's a fly name for you.You need to tie a fly called the bad luck breaker.

Yeah, that's actually a good one.

So are you.You like,'80s hair metal in the boat?

Yes.Look at me.If you've seen a picture of me, I'm just like.I don't know.I'm.It's about good times.Yeah.What's your favorite hair metal, Ben?

Oh, dude, that's a tough one.I've got a whole mix of all that stuff.

I've been listening to some.Some Motley Crue and some Twisted Sister.

So back in the day, you know, when I was in middle school or high school, I had a gerbil named Van Halen, so.

Van Halen.

Yeah.Not Van Hager, Van Halen.Right.

I got you.

So.So what about, you know, so you got good tunes.I know you're.You're kind of teaching.

Yeah.

And you want people to Fish through you.We didn't even talk about Skynard, by the way.

Oh, God.Kelly always, like, whenever Skynard comes on the shop, he's like, this is your loose.

So talk to me about, like, do you do, like, crazy short lunches?You got anything like that going on or is it good?

No, I love a good lunch.Like, whatever makes people have fun once again.But I. I like a good, like, quesadilla.Like, I make, like, early quesadillas sometimes and then st on the Blackstone, you know, with like a good green salsa, guacamole, have some chip and dip.Like, I'm a big Mexican lover, you know, I love Mexican food, so I want people to love that.But, like.And then you go into, like, sandwiches and stuff.But, like, I like to incorporate.I've always been a big fan of, like, bringing, like, local restaurants and stuff.So sometimes you get, like, a early sandwich, you know, and freeze it or whatever, or put it in the cooler and have it the next day.But it brings the community together.Like, we got demos, like, little butcher shop here.It's like you can get their meat and throw it on something there.People are always just like, ali, this is good.And it's like, it brings somebody else, you know, money or fame or whatever.You want to take it, you know?Yeah, just build up, build up other people.It's like we're only here for.They say you're only here for once, but, like, we'll see.Yeah, yeah.

Favorite boat beer.

Boat beer.That's tough, man.Modela with a lime.We gotta have a lime with a little tahin.

Yeah.And what's your.What's your favorite new Montana beer?

New Montana beer.One of my buddies from the shop, Iggy, took me out to this place in Bozeman, and they have, like, Grazing Clouds is the name of it.It's like, it was a good one.You can get it at a couple gas stations.But it's like kind of.It's like a little higher gravity beer, I guess.But, like, always go Modelo lime, though.Other than that.

Yeah.So I would say my favorite Montana beer is Cold smoke.

I never had it.

Yeah, yeah, it's a scotch.It's a scotch ale, and it's from Kettle Brewing, I think, in Missoula.But, yeah, I can promise you it's on tap at the Gravel Bar.

Nice.Yeah.Okay.I'm gonna have to go over there after this to celebrate me talking to you about good things.

Yeah, you should see what you'll see.A couple of my stickers on the.Cool.On the beer cooler there too.So.So, yeah, I mean, I think I have a pretty good idea, but why don't you tell me a little bit more about what you think, Eric, it takes to be a good guide.

To be a guide in the world that we have now is.This would be, like, really personal.And, like, you just have to love to teach and love to, like, just share stuff.Like, it's not like, catching fish is secondary, in my opinion.And, like, you have to just know how to, like, talk to people and have a good time.Like, when people are in my boat, we're, like, fishing.Like, the fish aren't gonna.We can't.I can't make them eat, you know, and I can tie the craziest flies I could tie.But, like, to be a guide, you really have to have the mind state to teach and just be yourself and.And this.This.Live and learn.Yeah.

Well, there you go.So, you know, if we shift gears a little bit so you kind of.You kind of between starting to fish and coming to fly fishing was a little bit of time.When did you kind of get the bug for fly tying?

Dude, fly tying is what I'm about.Like, I think I'm at fly tying level.My fly tying level is better than my oar level.It's crazy to say.Like, I've got.I've talked to a couple people around here.It's like, I think I'm getting into that.That period.I've heard a couple people say before me, but it's like, I feel more confident on my vise than I do on my oars anymore.Like, I want to rip on streamers just because, like, I just rip, like, dry flies and.And midges too.But, like, if you just give me on a vise, that's just where I feel calm, comfortable.

Yeah.And so, I mean, when did that happen?Did it happen as soon as you started fly fishing or a little bit later?

No, I think I was tying before I was guiding.I just, like, get the art of it, you know, I just get profiles.I get symmetry.I just understand, like, how fish look and like, just like, how they're built and like, bait fish.That's.I think that's what got me in.Like, tying streamers is like.I understand, like, profile because from art, you know, like, balance and all that.

Yeah.

But, like, I don't know.I just love Tank.I'm gonna.I, like, I think I'm just gonna be a tire eventually.

Yeah, there are plenty of people that do that.What was your.What Was your first vise?

My first vice was from a buddy of mine, Rooker.I was.His name is Rooker.He's in Atlanta.His granddad.I meant his granddad.I think.Yeah, yeah.If I don't.Yeah, this makes sense.Like, we went to Creede Colorado.Not to spot burn, but, like, his granddad was a G and he was.He was tying articulated stone flies.And, like, I was tying.I was already tying at the point, but, like, I was showing him, and I was.That was when I was new.And he was tying, like, crazy stuff, and he was like, we just saw each other's passion, and then he ended up passing away, unfortunately.Sometimes you have to die.And my buddy Rooker gave me that vice, and I had it for, I don't know, five years.Four or five years.And tied my best.My best flies on it.I think I tied it on Bob and.But, like, I just had that vise.I thought.I thought it had spirit in it, right.And I just.I think it got me where I am.And then he came out here.He never.He's never been to Montana.Whenever he came out here and he was just like, can I have my granddaddy's vice back?And I was like, yes, sir.And it got me where I am now.I'm on my own vise.I'm on Regal.I rip Regal hard, you know, Like, I'm not on any specific team, but, like, Regal's always just felt like home.

I bet you have a purple Regal Vise.

No, it's black and gold.Like, I like it.I like it really classic.I like something timeless.

Got it.And so, you know, let's talk about, like, in the streamer game.I mean, you're working with one of the OGs, right?With Kelly, but golly, what a G. Yeah.But tell me about, like, you know, some of the people that have influenced you kind of tying on YouTube or.

In person and, like, inspirational tires to me are Mike Schultz, obviously, Andre Andresson, but you don't see enough of his stuff anymore.But he's just, like, really crispy.So Charlie Craven, for sure.Mike Schmidt, Rich Strolis.I like Josh Varner.He's a sleeper.

Golly.

There's so many to name.But at the same time, though, I think I've tied with or within the vicinity of everybody.I've learned from that.I watched at this point in my life, which is really cool.I thought about that the other day whenever I was, like, coming on your show.I was like, that's probably going to be a question, you know, and, like, this is something I've just been thinking about in general.Even if you didn't have me on, like, I think I've tied with everybody I've learned from at this point, which is crazy.Or like, I haven't tied with Kelly, but I.He's my boss now, which is nuts.

Yeah, but I mean, it's kind of nuts, right?If you go to Bobbin the hood, you know, and you're in the streamer game, it's.You can probably leave there having tied with 85 or 90% of the people you follow, Right?

Yeah.Like that.Yeah.Russ Maddin, Blane Chocklett.I mean, I can name them off, but like I've talked about, I've.I'll.I've tied with them at this point, which is cool.Like, it doesn't mean anything.Like, I tied beside you.Like, what's that mean?But I learned from you, I guess.Yeah, that's everything.

So, you know, other than kind of the artistic proportionality and streamers, I mean, you know, is there anything else that kind of like said, you know, I don't want to fish midges.I want to go fish meat.

Yeah.Like, I'm a big nymph.I got big nymph energy.But like, I just want to get him on some honking junk, you know, I want to like, I want to make him eat.Is this something forceful about it?It's predatory and this is more aggressive, I guess.But like, at the same time, I'll bobber fish with the best of them.

Yeah.I do think there's something different between like.Marvin, go ahead.

Now that I'm out here, though, sorry to interrupt, but like, I wanna.You're.You're gonna see me on some dry fly games soon.

The dry fly fishing stuff is good, but you know.Yeah, I think it's interesting.

Right, but they actually eat them out here, though.

Yeah, but I mean, I think it's interesting too because dry fly in some ways is like a variant of streamer fishing in the sense when they're on it, you know?Yeah, exactly.Because, I mean, I think there's a difference between accidentally catching a big fish on a nymph.Right?

Yeah.

And like targeting a big fish on a dryer.A streamer.

I got you.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.I mean, you said it best.

Yeah.Super duper cool.So, you know, it's interesting.I told you before we started recording.I know.You thought we were recording the kind of.The pre roll, right?

Yeah, that pre roll was my best.That's the best thing I've ever said.Though I was surprised.You.I.Rob, when you called me, I thought we were recording, so I was like, I was on my game.Now I felt like I'm off my game.

No, you're good.

But, I mean, no, you gotta.You gotta.You gotta figure out a way to get that on there.

Well, I don't know.I don't have that kind of magic.But what I would put in this is that this.

Lost in the.It's in the void.

Is lost in the void.But what I would say.Yeah, but what I would say, though, is, you know, we'll bring you back and we can talk about patterns, right?We talk about the Thrasher and Agent Scully and all that.

Kind of.Working on a couple more.I just got another one on called the Secret Shopper.

Cool.Yeah, but.But, you know, kind of before we kind of touch a little bit on your streamer patterns, I was really kind of curious because I know you've been really deliberate in, like, designing your patterns and how long it's taking you to kind of dial them in.Talk to me a little bit about kind of your philosophy on streamer design.

My philosophy on streamer design is, like, I tie something that I like, right?I think it looks good on the vise.I put it in the water, and if it swims.And then my favorite thing lately, like, I've got to the point where instead of me fishing it, I've been given it away to, like, dudes at the shop and, like, clients or whatever, and I'd rather them, like, get them or not get them, you know, and get more intel from somebody else fishing.Because I'm like.I'm kind of elitist in my.My own pattern, right?So I've been giving it a couple to the boys, and they've been swinging them and getting them.Is this, like.I don't know, but I'm a big profile guy.Like, I'm a big profile and color.

Scheme and anything kind of in your materials philosophy.

Materials is definitely a big thing with me because, like, I like how materials work against each other.That's what's made me the tier that I am today.It's like deer hair is buoyant.Laser dub sinks different other pattern.You know, just, like, seeing how, like, materials work against each other, I geek out on that.Like, something that, like, fights each other in the water, makes you have to do less as you're retrieving it.

Guided in.Any kind of thoughts on articulation?

Articulation is up to the guy.Like, Schultzy is a ripper on articulation.In my opinion, I think he's the most badass other than Blane, you know what I mean?But something in Mike Schultz, like, he's in that Woodsman, that one's got me intrigued.But like, at the same time, it's like, you know, Leech works on certain things and then how complicated we have to get, you know.But at the same time, it's cool when you get them on that, you know, and they want to eat big stuff.I want to eat a big meal at Taco Bell, you know, it's like the same concept, just a.

A burrito grande for fish.

Yeah.Sometimes, like if I have one shank, that might make somebody else hungry.

So, you know, your first two patterns, you had the Thrasher and the Agent Scully.And they've been picked up by Umpqua.People can actually buy regular sizes and mini sizes now.But I thought it would be kind of cool because, you know, everybody that ties kind of dreams about getting their pattern picked up.And I was kind of curious if you could tell us a little bit about those two patterns and also talk about like, kind of what was it like and what did you kind of go through to get Umpqua to put them in the catalog?

So.So uncle actually, this is kind of a funny story.Like, you know how it's like I've had a couple people, like, they were like, it's hard to get patterns on.Umpqua actually reached out to me, first of all, because I was just tying and having fun right.When I was.When I.Whenever I got into tying, I was just like, I was doing.Because I was like enjoying it.Like, literally it was making me smile.I created this.I caught fish on this, you know, and Umpqua hit me up and they were like, have you ever thought about doing a pattern or whatever?I was like, oh, I actually have a couple patterns.And then I had the.The Thrasher came about because it was Georgia State bird.The Brown Thrasher is their state where.Which people don't really realize is Georgia's Brown Thrasher.And I was like, brown trout, Brown Thrasher.I was like, that's a no brainer, right?So I was like, I sent that in with the Agent Scully.Agent Scully is like, the truth is out there.Keep searching.You know, like the X Files for those that are old enough to know.It's like.But it's always also, Scully is like sculpin.So I was like, keep searching.The truth is out there, you know.So I sent both of those patterns in.They like, they ripped I tied, you know, I was tying them to the tee.I tie everything to the seat.But they took them and I never looked back since.And now I'm working with them and I just got that secret shopper rig and hopefully we'll get micros coming soon.

Very cool.And so for folks that don't know, you know, the Thrasher is your kind of your swim fly, right?

Yeah, it's a swim.It's a definitely a swim fly.You can do weighted or unweighted.Agent Scully's.A little sculpting pattern, a little getter.But I've had people come in the shop, they called their personal best on my flies.It's been unreal.

Yeah, that's pretty sweet, right?That's probably the second best thing to catch in a fish.

Other fly catching fish on my fly is why I tie.Yeah.

So when I bring.Bring really good tires on the podcast, always want to ask them to share some tying tips with our mere mortals.

Right?Yeah.

So kind of you gotta.Got a couple that you can kind of share with us that'll kind of help us up our game at the vice.

Like, that's a good question, Marvin.But like, less is more.Like if you think it looks good, probably trim it down.I think that's.I want to leave it at that.I'm going to keep it simple and profile.

Got it.And are you talking about profile in the round or profile from just the bottom two?

I learned it from Mike Schmidt, the profile Rules of halves.I think that's my favorite this play.Rules of half.So it's like if you tie your tail in, your next material should be half of your tail, half of your body, half of your main body.It's rolls of half.So it makes a better profile.When it swims, you'll notice it.

And so are you saying you just is that material or you're just saying size it up by a half.

This material base.Like so if you're doing bucktail.So for instance, if you tie in a schlappen tail, right.Like, and then I'll do bucktail, half of that schlepped tail.And then on my main body, I'm half of the bucktail.It's just half of it.Just half everything.

Got it.

I don't know if that makes sense.Probably doesn't make sense to the people that don't tie.But like, you're just having everything to build a profile that tapers.It's a taper.

Yep.I. I think I got it.And so you're.You're gonna you're gonna be stingy with the tips.I'll shake you down at bobbin when I see you for some more.

I'm a ripper on the tips.So somebody asked me the other day, it's like, you don't, you don't do.You don't stack your stuff.It's like.No, I like it to be like how it should be.I pull out a little long fibers.And you can always trim out long fibers.Like, don't be scared to just like trim away stuff too.That's another good one.Yeah, just cut it down.

And I bet you have some kind of nutty tying tool on your bench that most people don't use that you can't live without.You got something like that?

Yeah, Switchblade comb from Gatlinburg, Tennessee.That's my favorite thing that I pull out.It's a.You know how you have to brush your stuff out?Yep.I have a switchblade comb and that's my favorite tool.It gives people a rowdy.

That's pretty funny.Is it.Is it in a Ripley's Believe it or not case?

Probably.I don't know, but probably.But it's just one of the.It's a switchblade knife style comb.And like, I love it because like whenever I flip it out, I just now have to trim, you know, it's.I know I need to cut away.Yeah, it just feels good in my hand.

Yeah, that's the Fonzie, right?Didn't he have a switchblade comb in Happy Days?

Yeah.Yeah.And look at.Look where he is now.Yeah.

What about.So I also know too that, you know, really good tires are always tinkering.Do you have any kind of new materials on your bench that you're playing with?You want to share with listeners?

Don't talk to me about new materials.I got.There's almost too much.So Kelly, Kelly has me ordering new materials of the shot.I've never even seen half the shit I've ordered.But Montana Fly Company, that peppered chenille is.I think, you know, it's another Mike Schultz, but they're doing that woodsman and he like, it's like a.It's a material that doesn't catch water, you know, so it shreds water, but still builds a big profile.That's what I like about it.It's like you can get a profile with less bulk and less cast, less heavy castability.

Anything else in the candy shop, I mean.

Oh, yeah.Galloup's fish feathers.Kelly Galloup has These fish feathers from MFC that are, they have, like, rainbow trout, brown trout, and, like, speckled trout.I would love the snot of them.It's making me, it's making me think about, like, color schemes differently.I love that.You know, just something different.Just like, get your, get you out of your rut.But other than that, like, I think that's about it.Like, spent fly fishing from Montana.They have a lot of, like, really good natural materials and stuff that I want to start dabbling with, but I want to start doing more space stuff now that I'm out here, you know?But, like, I think I'm, I don't know.I just been kicking my own game for a minute.I, I went from two beads to one bead.Does that make sense?First, the 3D, you know, the 3D Hardline beads.I'm back on just one of those.I don't know if that matters anybody.

So tell me.Tell.Just tell us why you made the, why you made the change.

I, I, I was just looking at swim ability and stuff.I don't, I think you could do two still.But, like, I get it from Chad Johnson on the Slugo.I think I always go back to his Slugo.I think the Slugo is one of my favorite designs.Again, it's got some of the biggest fish in my boat.Chad Johnson at Arkansas, right?

Yep.

I don't know.Like, I just learned from everybody.Like, I've incorporated a lot into my, my own flies, you know, and I appreciate every time that I put anything into any of my flies that I've learned from.But, like, Johnnie, even Johnnie with the Kill Whitey, I tied his fly for the first time.What a, what a unit.Like, is this, people that before me that just got them.

Yeah.Any, any maybe new adhesives or anything like that?

No, not at all.I don't even use it.Use this glue is whatever it's like.Oh, speaking of that, that's a good question.So I don't use glue.Like, what's his name?James Hughes from Mike Schultz.I think he's Schultz Outfitters' head guide.Like, he uses glue heavy, and I like it.But, like, if you, I learned it from Mike Schmidt.He did that Chinese finger trap.That's the best thing I've ever seen.So whenever you put your articulation wire, like, back through your bead, you know, where you go back to your front hook.He did the Chinese finger trap, where it's like if it pulls, it tightens.And I, I stopped using glue at that point.

I got You.So you're talking about the way he's wrapping the thread when he's wrapping down the wire.

Oh, yeah, the wire.Like he goes wire down and he goes back up half and then down all the way back up half, you know, and then down half down all the way.And it makes it.Like whenever it pulls, it'll tighten.I don't know if that makes sense on paper, but, like, that just makes sense in my mind.I think it rips.Chinese finger trap.

Very, very neat.And so, so, you know, you're.It's gonna.You're going to get acquainted with a cold Montana winter for the first time here in a few months.

Kelly said I couldn't.He was like, you're never going to make it.

So, you know, a lot of guys either go guide down in the Caribbean or go to South America, but I.

Suspect I hope to one day I get to do that.Yeah, but just because I want to do it.Not just because it's cold.

Yeah.But I also suspect that you're going to escape and do some shows in 2027.

I'm ripping on shows.I'm ripping on shows, Marvin.Like, I've been doing more tying events than I've ever done in my life.

Yeah.So where can, where can your adoring fans find you in 2027?

I mean, you can find me any pop up.Just keep on my Instagram, Eric Hurst.But like, I'm doing Bobbin again.I got like, invited to Bobbin and that's.I think that's the biggest thing I have as of now.But I've just been popping with Grundin's.I've been like, I'm gonna do some stuff with Skwala.We're gonna do some stuff at the shop.Even at Galloups.I'm gonna get some stuff popping over there.You know what I mean?

Yeah.So are you gonna go to the.I guess it's not the Atlanta fly fishing show.It's going to be in Athens this year.You're gonna be there.

I mean, I hope so.I would love to be there.I don't have anything right now on record, but, like, I just, like, I wanted to say this on the air right now.I want.I just want to tie it.Everything I can tie out.Like, I just, like, all I have now is time.So I want to build that community.

Very, very cool.And so, you know, all my show promoter friends and event planners.Hit Eric up on Instagram.

Yeah.Hit me up.Like I'm trying to rip.

So.Well, I'll I'll be in Athens and I'll be at Bobbin.So we should get together and have a hamburger in Athens.

And Bob, you're gonna be at Bob.And we're gonna rip again.Rip it back.

I'm excited, dude.New location, you know, bigger show, longer show.

Have you seen his new location or no?

No, I haven't.

Golly.I bet it's going to be.He's.He's probably trying to compete with Kelly.

Yeah, I don't know about that.But I know, I know everything those guys do is just awesome.And it's.

That's my second favorite shop other than Galloups.

But.But I will say for Bobbin and you know, you will not find a higher concentration of fishy people tying anywhere in the country.Right.

The coolest event in.If you could make it to Michigan in January and I think everybody should if you're in the tank.It's the coolest event I've ever been to.Yeah, I think that really is the coolest event I've ever been to.Like no lie.

Yeah, it's super special.So before I let you.Yeah.

Other than, you know, Kelly Galloup's gonna do that year round annual party.His.His thing was cool.I got the tie with Charlie Craven.

Oh, very cool.

That was crazy.Like.And Rich Strolis and Falconberry.

That's pretty slick.

Golly.I don't know.I'm just like, I'm geeking because like I've tied with everybody I looked up to.So I'm kind of like geeking out.Sorry to be so excited, dude.

It's all good.Before I let you get back to the Vice this evening, is there anything else you want to share with our listeners that we haven't talked about yet?

What I would like to share with the listeners is like just keep tying and keep connection and keep being positive and keep teaching.That's all.And having fun.And having fun.That's key.

Yeah.Well, there you go.So what's the best way for folks to follow your adventures on the water at the vice or the best thing for.

Yeah, the best thing to follow me right now is Eric Hurst, Instagram.This is E R I C H U R S T. Got it.

And if they want to get on your boat for 2027, what should they do?

770-313-0030 Or contact Kelly.I'll get on with him eventually.

Yeah.And I'll drop all that.I'll drop all that stuff in the.

Show notes and I'm with Go Yeah, I with Galloup.And I love his team.His team is crazy.Nathan, all the guides.I mean, Jordan, I can't say enough about them all.I'm not even gonna start.

Fair enough.Well, listen, we will.I appreciate you making time this evening, and we will definitely bring you back to talk about the Thrasher, the Agent Scully on an episode of the Butcher Shop soon.

Yeah, I would love to.Like, is this good?Cause you're the first podcast I've ever done, like, professional podcast.

Well, I'm.I'm.I'm honored to be the first guy.

Yeah.Like, it means a lot to me, and I really appreciate the out of it.

Oh, dude, it's my pleasure.

Like, you made my heart smile.

Oh, that's good.That.That makes.Makes it worthwhile.

Like, all I.All I do is tie stuff on hooks and, like, to be recognized is amazing to me.

But you.But, you know, Eric, I mean, I think that for.You know, when you find those people, like I was telling you, you know, a lot of what I try to do with the articulate fly is to, you know, help people get out there and, you know, have their story told.Right.Because it takes time to kind of build all that, you know, community.

Yeah.I've been building my name forever.I beat myself down and up, you know?Yeah.And it's just like.It's a grind.Like, anything is a grind, though.It's not even just this industry.It's just a tough.It's tough on this.On the creeks and the streets.

Yeah, dude.Well, you know, if you want to be great at anything, it's.It's tough.That's.It's that simple.

That's what they say.I'll keep rip.I'll keep ripping.

Well, listen, I appreciate you making the time.Take care.

All right.Thank you.

Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.Don't forget to check out the links to all this episode sponsors in the show notes.Tight lines, everybody.