S8, Ep 81: Fewer Fish, Smarter Fishing: Mac Brown on Moving, Reading Water and October Caddis

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.We're back with another casting angles with the man himself, Mac Brown.Mac, how are you doing?

I'm doing great.How are you doing tonight, Marvin?

As always, just trying to stay out of trouble.And I guess, you know, the good news in our neck of the woods is that they finally got the DH rolling in western North Carolina.

Yeah, we got it going and it's been fun.It's been cooler, a lot cooler.And it's at nighttime temperatures.We've had a lot of frost already.And I think they're calling for some white, white stuff falling from the sky this weekend a little bit.So it'll be interesting and it'll cool the water down.Though the water's in good shape as far as temperature wise.It's in the low, low 50s already.And so it's pretty much at an ideal, ideal range right now.

Yeah, and I know too that, you know, we talked about this, I don't know, maybe the last time or the time before we spoke that, you know, there were issues with fish kills in the hatchery, the main hatchery in Brevard being offline.And so what that's, that means is, you know, obviously they waited a month to start stocking, but they're also stocking fewer fish.What are you seeing on the water and, you know, what should anglers do to kind of, you know, target fewer fish in the system?

Yeah, there's a lot of people on the bank, you know, like this past week and people try to wade and of course it came up to about 1600 CFS there.Wouldn't have had the big rains last week from.That's what flooded down there in McCaysville and Ducktown.We did.We've had a couple inches of rain, so, yeah, they couldn't get out in the middle really and walk around much here in Bryson.I think up in Webster, it could probably do that easier, but it's still still high.I mean, it's still 6, 6, 800 cfs.So I mean, it's good for floating.And I think what happens is when you get a lot of people on the bank, it pushes the fish out to the, out to the middle.So then the boats, I think, have a field day with it, you know, because there's not as many people wading where the water's big.And that's where we're finding most of the fish right now is in the faster flow.And a lot of, lot of caddis and mostly caddis flies and Blue wings.That's about the two things that I see every time I've been out.So that's what I'm kind of targeting when I go out here lately.

Yeah, that's kind of interesting.I mean, these guys mostly gotten pretty educated because they've been in the water for, I don't know, not even two weeks to be keying in on like the more natural stuff, right?

Yeah, we got about a third, I think of the normal, normal amount.And it's.Yeah, they, they've really keeps you on your toes, you know, because the first day, first day after they settled in, I waited a couple days to go out and float.And my first hypothesis, second hypothesis, all wrong, you know.So then when I found where they were, it's been pretty consistent, you know, since.I mean normally this time of year they'll go to the kind of slower water, deeper water, and that's not at all where we're finding them.That's not what's going on really.So it's more about knee to waist deep water where, where there's a lot of current, like 3 to 4ft a second water flow.And that's kind of unusual for hatchery fish to be in that, you know, right away.So.Must be the food.Has to be the food.Because like I say we're seeing a lot of black caddis and blue wings and.And those both come out of that, you know, faster flow.

Yeah, that's interesting.Cause I mean I would still expect that, you know, like mops and squirmies and stuff to be working, right?

Yeah, the mop, the mop is working.We fish that some when we don't see the hatch and things going on.We're fishing a lot of the mops like the.I'm still fishing the chartreuse mop.It's doing really well in the faster water, especially in low light, like.Cause I've been, I've been going out a lot late and going till, you know, run wrapping up at dark and that, that charge roost shows up really good.I'm.When the sun angle gets really low, that's probably one of the better flies you can throw in the fast water just for late in the evening, you know.Cause I think it's so visible and you can fish it a lot of ways.You don't have to, you don't have to just nip it and tight line it or bobber fish it.I mean we're fishing it like a wet fly a lot and it's, it's working well.Like that just throw it and swing it and pull it, you know, pull it back upstream.That's.That seems to be the most productive method really, is pulling it.

Yeah.So it's like half naturals and half junk food.A little bit ahead of schedule, right?

Yeah, yeah, for the most part.And I think that if it stays like, you know, this, it's not a whole lot of it hadn't been like really as big numbers of people as I expected.So I mean, I think that's helping it too.As long as it stays like what we're seeing right now, I think it'll stay good all into the winter.It's not, it's not crazy like 30 boats or anything a day, like a lot of the years, you know, so.So I think right now I'm seeing like four, four boats, five boats in a day, which is, which is really not that much pressure.So.So that's actually a win.

Yeah.And since we have fewer fish and you know, my understanding is they're going to kind of keep.Stay on the kind of traditional DH stocking schedule from now on, but they're going to stock fewer fish.Do you encourage, you know, anglers that aren't in boats to basically maybe fish faster until they find a pocket of fish and not kind of hunker down like they would if they were stocking the normal number of fish?

Yeah.Cause that's really the game.I'm sure it's the same up in Webster.I'll be up there Friday with.We have a school Thursday to Sunday.We'll be up in Webster probably Friday and.But yeah, up there where it's easy to wade, that's the whole game is like what you move around, move around.Once you find decent numbers in a place, you're gonna have a bunch of other numbers, you know, with it.So there's a lot of non productive water.It's funny like you'll look at things that you think are not productive and a lot of times you'll find fish there, you know, so it's like, it's hard to predict.It's hard to predict, you know, where they go.So I think that's a good advice to move fast until you find them and then stay there for a little while but.But then move on too.It kind of gets old watching people that find a pod and then stand on top of the pod for the whole day.You know, it's kind of like abusing a. Abusing a spot.So I mean, take a few fish and move on because there's a lot of, you know what I mean?But there's a lot of other people that come from out of state and things.It's.It's not really that cool when there's a handful of pods and the same people are standing over it all day long.You know, even as a guide, we don't do that.I mean, I don't do that to my fellow guides here.I mean, if we find good fish, we.We leave and let other people have a go at it, you know?

Yeah.And I would say too, you know, in terms of like, you know, unlikely water and being surprised, I always say you gotta be disciplined and grid the water, right.And then what you do is on the, the places that you don't think you're gonna find as many fish, you just don't put as many casts.But you still fish em a little bit, right?

Yeah, I'll do that a lot of times.Just do a lot bigger grid and we'll get to a new spot and we're trying to decide is this gonna be really good or really bad.And instead of doing a, a fairly small grid, a lot of times I'll go like 6, 8ft apart instead of.Then if I find it's working, then I'll go back in and I'll tighten up the grid.But as far as the probe and stuff, I like to go a lot of times probe a much larger grid to see if anything going on there.And if there's not, then we move on.And I mean, that's really the fun part about, you know, fall fishing.It's same in the park.Like, I was up in the park early last week, up high.I walked in about two hours.And it was the same way up there.Even though there's a lot of wild fish, you know, you find these spots where a lot better than others.And then you kind of look at what that water type is, and that's the water type they're on for.Basically up and down the creek, you know, so whatever they're doing in one spot, that's a pretty good general rule of thumb in the park.Like if they're doing, you know, wherever you are and you figure out that type of, of water, that's what's going on up and down the creek as well, like miles away from you.So then you kind of got better intel once you know that.But then the one guaranteed thing is it'll, it'll change, you know, so then you get tricked again.Because when it changes, how long does it take you to Figure out it changed, you know what I mean?That's the fun part about fall fishing.And then they'll move into a different, different water type, which I like in the wild streams a lot this time of year, the tail outs of pools.I spent a lot of time probing the tail outs of pools, first like, you know, you're standing way down in the riffle, fishing the bottom.The bottom, you know, one eighth of the pool and you're making cast into that.And that's a, that's kind of tricky, of course, because you got slow water in the pole and you got fast water you're laying your line in.But that time of year for October caddis, that's working really well up in the park.We have a lot of October caddis already going off.So that's a good way to probe the tail and that's where you find your better quality brown trout.

Got it.And you mentioned you've got your last school of the season coming up, I guess later this weekend to the weekend.So what that really means is.And also too, as it gets colder, I know your guide trips kind of wind down.It gets us to start looking about, looking at kind of 2027 show season.What's in the early part of your dance card for 2027?

Well, we'll start out in Athens, Athens, Georgia, which I'm excited to go to Athens and I really am because that's a neat town.And also musically there's just so much good music that's come out of Athens over the years.I'm excited to have the show there.And we'll teach the all day class on Friday before the show.It's a weekend show Saturday and Sunday in Athens.And Glenda Powell, we'll teach that one with me in Athens.Then we go to Marlborough, Mass.The very next weekend.And so that'll kind of kick off, you know, for January.Then it, then it just gets, you know, crazy until, you know, it'll be show, oh, almost a show every weekend until March and then, then we get to go out and go on a trip.Marvin, I'm, I'm looking forward to going down there and seeing the set, folks.

Yeah, absolutely.And I would imagine since we were talking about all the stuff you were doing on your website, you probably have all of your show appearances on the website, right?

Yeah, all the, all the itinerary.I put up 27 already as well.And I mean all the shows are listed on the, on the MacBrownFlyfish.com site.And then another thing too, for Folks, coming up, like when we get, you know, snow or rain or whatever, go make sure to check out the live river and Hatch report because that updates daily.Like every 15 minutes it'll give a live update of the.Of the cfs, water temp, all the kind of things that you.That you kind of want to know.Cause if you're planning on wade fishing and it's 1800, you know, in Bryson, then probably you want to go somewhere else because it's.You're not going to be able to wade a lot at that level, you know.

Yeah, I'll try to remember to drop a link for that in the show notes.You know, it's kind of funny because we're kind of.We're trying a new thing where we're recording these every month.So I guess the next time we'll talk, it'll be after Thanksgiving and we'll be cruising into Christmas.

Oh, it'd be Santa Claus time.Yeah, I'm looking forward to that, Marvin.

Yeah, it's already Santa Claus time.If you've been to the mall recently.

Well, the Polar Express is doing pretty, pretty big schedule already here in Bryson because we, you know, they switched straight out of the pumpkin.What is it, pumpkin patch or whatever they call it for the Great Smoky Mountains Railway.And I mean, literally, as soon as that ended on Halloween, they were putting up all the Christmas decorations the very next day and they started running for the, for the polar stuff already.So, yeah, we're seeing families walking all around Bryson City with the pajamas.And it's always a good giggle driving through town in the evening, as you'll see, the kids and the wife, everybody got their pajamas.And the husband's kind of looking like, what am I doing walking around in pajamas?They don't look as excited about it, I can just tell you that.

Yeah, fair enough.Well, folks, you know, now that we've got some fish in the DH system in North Carolina, you owe it to yourself to get out there and catch a few.Tight lines, everybody.Tight lines, Mac.

Tight lines, Marvin.