S8, Ep 67: Elevate Your Cast: Mac Brown's Expert Tips on Haul Timing and Line Speed

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.We're back with another casting angles with the man himself, Mac Brown.Mac, how are you?

I'm doing great.How are you doing, Marvin?

Just trying to stay out of trouble and you know, it's.I don't know.Gosh, I, you know, I thought the heat was going to break, but it hasn't.And you know, we were kind of brainstorming before we started recording and we've been telling people all these things they need to do while the trout fishing is not good before the delayed harvest stuff gets turned on.And if I'm a betting man, it ain't gonna be the first weekend in October, but use that time after dinner to maybe go out and practice.And that kind of led us to hauling.

Yeah, that'd be a fun topic.Talking about the timing of the haul and I think that'd be a good, a good thing for September, you know, the doldrums of September to get out there and really play around and perfect the timing of, of folks hauls, you know, because I think that'd be a good subject matter.

Yeah.And it's interesting, right, because this kind of goes back to what we were talking about last time on the roll cast, that a lot of people think they've got it figured out, but they really don't.Right.And so, you know, probably I was kind of thinking about this.Maybe the best way to break this down is we could talk about like where you generate the most line speed without hauling and how you actually time the haul to magnify that effect.

Yeah, yeah, I think that'd be good.Just like with that haul, of course, when we rotate late, you know, like what I teach a lot with three point grip, with pulling your pinky, you know, late in the stroke.That's where the little bit of butt movement gives a whole lot of tip movement all at one time.So we try to do that as late as we can.And the same thing with the haul.And I think the haul part got confused a lot years ago with, you know, a lot of, A lot of folks were talking about movements of down, up movement and all these different things.And of course that's correct, but that's really a very, very generalized statement because when we think, okay, as soon as we start to move the rod, if I start to pull down, then I feed it back for the up.Then, then what does that help with the overall timing as I mean, then we say, well, do you have millions of repetitions to figure that out?To where it's actually working and clicking really well for you.And usually the answer would be no.So I think just coordinating that with if folks really understand the pulling part of the butt movement of the rod very, very late.So if you were on a keyboard like a lot of people play on their home computer and laptop and whatever, it'd be like a backslash.Backslash.Backslash, Backslash, backslash.Forward slash.There's where you haul is the forward slash.I don't know any other more simplistic way to describe it than that.

Yeah, it's interesting.And I want to go back and I really want to hammer on just the pre hall rotation point because I think it's a big deal when you and I have worked together and I've kind of got the entry level version of casting kind of in your system where I really try to get people to understand how powerful, you know, just that little bit of three or four inches of rod butt travel when you close your hand at how much tip movement you get, which equates to a ton of speed, to really understand that they can really back off the power.And that really helps because they now know that they can kind of slow down because they don't have to basically power the cast to get what they need.And then that helps them also really be patient and master that haul timing.

Yeah, I think.I think that's a big.The first big light bulb would be what you just described of doing that really late and then adding the pulling part.Of course, the emphasis with the line hand, pulling the line very, very late.That coincides exactly with when we're doing that rotation, like with the pinky.If we're talking about vertical back cast.Same kind of thing before casting horizontal kind of like wrist extension, like you're throwing a frisbee off to your side.Same things when you're flicking the wrist, like throwing the frisbee.I mean, everybody knows if you ever throwing a frisbee, and I'm not a big frisbee golf fan, but.But if I was, I've thrown a frisbee enough times in college to know when the wrist extension happens.That's when all the speed's going to the, you know, to throw the frisbee somewhere.So same kind of thing.So you're going to do the haul part.Keep your hands together.Keep your hands together, Keep your hands together.And when you're going to flick the frisbee, explode with the other hand.Exact opposite direction from the stripping eyelet.And everything works out beautiful.But that's another example of late, late, late, you know, for the timing.Because I just see this a lot on the road with the classes and the classes here we teach in Bryson, that people think they're hauling, but the timing's all jacked up.If you want to.I guess that's a good word to call it the hauling.Timing's all jacked up because it's always too soon.Almost always.I know it sounds kind of mean to say it's always too soon, but it's almost like 95% too early.So I think that once people finally see the light, those 5% that actually have already seen that light, you know, that's what they're after.It's just.I don't know how else we emphasize that except saying, has to come really, really late.

Yeah.And so I would say, you know, like a kinesthetic cue is if you.If you're hauling and you don't feel tension, you're hauling too soon.

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.Because you ought to feel.You ought to feel quite a bit of tension if you're doing it correctly.Late, late in the stroke, it feels like you've got something.I mean, you can.You can feel it increase.And another thing it'd be worth saying is, like, for.For 30ft, it's going to mention the study we did back at Western Carolina in 90, 93, that, you know, without the haul, without a single haul or double haul, the line speed was like 70.I want to say 78.I'm just guessing.I can't remember exactly the number, but I'm pretty sure it was around 78 miles an hour.And then with the haul, it was 264 miles an hour.So when people complain about the wind and complain it's not going somewhere in the salt water, chances are their haul timing's off.And right there is your first, biggest clue to go out and play with it and fix that kind of stuff in the doldrums of summer and, you know, September, August, that's the time to go work it out.

Yeah.And I would say, you know, this is a place where pantomime is really helpful.Right.To pantomime it before you do it.And so to work where, you know, you're dropping the elbow and just as you're starting the rotation is.That's your haul haul moment.And to just practice that without any line out, and that's something you can do, you know, now that football started back, you can watch the football game and sit in your armchair with.With the butt of your rod and just practice that timing.

That's right.Yeah.And I talked to a guy years ago, it's funny, going to a show out in California and he was the president of the North American Salmon Federation.And we were on the plane, he was talking to me, he said all timing was, you know, he'd been curious about it and still didn't have it.And anyway, I said, you got a rubber band?And he pulled out a rubber band from his briefcase and he's sitting next to me.So we had a couple hours, you know, flying out west coast.So I mean, that's about a four hour flight, five hour flight, I guess, from.We were flying out of Atlanta.And just using rubber band, just pan them on with rubber bands to keep your hands together.Keep your hands together and as soon as you're doing the flick, put it on your index fingers, on both index fingers and haul.Then give it back.And just the concept of something as simple as using a rubber band on your hands will help you immensely with when you have a rod in your hand, you know, and a line in your hand instead of a rubber band.So.But yeah, I think a lot of times those simple exercises like with a rubber band, you know, help people get it too.I mean, just once they, once they get it, then they can reapply it, you know, to the real thing.A lot of times those, those, those are the fastest ways to get it, I think, for folks.

Yeah, And I would say too, you know, like, I, I, I know you would say this as well, is like you can really be slow and methodical because, you know, the rod's the lever.You don't need to power the rod.Right.And so you can even have a really, really long stroke, really deeply bend that rod.You don't need to rush because I think you were telling me before we started recording that with 30ft of line out, you were getting three times the line speed by hauling at the right time.Right.So folks, you got plenty of Runway.You don't need to basically wind up like you're throwing a baseball.

Oh, yeah, that's right.Yeah, we're not trying to throw a baseball to home plate.Just adding spade at the property proper place is the whole key.And yeah, I think that's probably the biggest, probably overall fault in teaching casting all these years is people try to use way too much.You know, even for 20, 30 foot casts, they want to use way too much and power way too much power.And I think that a lot of that comes from throwing you Know sports and indoctrinated.You know, if you're a man who get indoctrinated at a young age to throw a ball further, you throw it harder.So then you start thinking 30ft's a long ways, and what do you do?You throw it harder.And I think that really messes with a lot of this with flycasting, because really, when I think about sports we did as a kid, I don't think we dealt with any sports that actually accelerated.And that's the biggest difference.You know, with a loop of line, the fly is actually going faster and faster after you do the motion and everything else, everything you've ever dealt with is actually going slower.It's a deceleration.And so I think that that simple concept of realizing that you're dealing with something that goes faster, it's really hard to fathom when it's totally opposite of everything we've ever done, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.And, you know, shifting gears a little bit, because I know we're.We're getting ready to head into your favorite teaching weekend of the year.And you got a bunch of other stuff kind of scattered throughout the fall, too.You want to let folks know about that?

Sure.Yeah.We've got a rowing school this coming week.Then we got a casting school the week after.Then we got a guide school the middle of the month in October.And right now we're taking.Got a couple spots left in November.October's full, but all those dates are on the MacBrownFlyfish.com underneath.Easiest, fastest way to navigate.Just go to the dates right up in the top menu and look at the dates for what.What interests you.

Yeah, absolutely.And then, of course, you know, they'll be stocking DH Here in theory in two weeks, but I suspect they're going to have to wait a couple weeks after that.And so, you know, you'll be doing fall and winter guide trips too, right?

A little bit.Not much.

I know.

Try not to do much of that, Marvin.

I know, but you do that and you also.

I'll do a few.

Yeah, you'll do a few for the right people.And you'll.You'll also do individualized casting lessons if folks want those, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, we'll do those and we'll get them on the water.I mean, we've got a bunch of staff, you know, that'll take them on trips and stuff for dh but yeah, I'm trying to focus mostly on the teaching in schools.

I'm with you.Well, listen, folks, as I always say yo to yourself to get out there and catch a few.Tight lines, everybody.Tight lines, Mac.

Tight lines, Marvin.